Added on -, by Reviewer531575
Refund at termination of service significantly reduced by undisclosed/undocumented chargesOn *** *** 2015 we chose to change our propane provider. Walters Propane tanks were disconnected, and the new service began. On *** XX XXXX I placed a phone call (a voice mail had to be left)indicating we had chosen a new provider, and their tanks were available for pick up the next time they were in the area, and asked for a return phone call to discuss the refund for the gas left in the tank(s). The tanks were picked up in the afternoon of *** *** Follow up phone calls were made on *** *** and *** *** I did not receive a return phone call. A refund check was in our mail on *** *** The check ***** was marked "refund in full" with the following comments:18.1 gal @XXX XXX***** pick up charge ***** - 3 blocks not returned **** = *******No return phone call from Walters was ever received. The pick up fee at end of service was never made known prior to the termination of service or at the time of termination. The charge for non-return of the cement blocks was never made known prior to the termination of service, or at the time of termination. Additionally we were dismayed to find out the regulator on our home propane tank (as installed by Walters) was one for use on recreational vehicles, not for home propane use. We were not aware of this or we would have requested this be corrected immediately. We had been customers of Walters for approximately 15+ years at the time of termination. The pick up fee of ****** seems unreasonable, as well as ***** per each cement block that has been present for 15+ years.Desired SettlementSettlement requested is the balance of the refund due of *******Business Response Hello, in response to Mrs. *****, please be advised she only offers a work number for her return calls and we make most return calls later in the day. Mrs. ***** knows this and we did try twice to return her call, later in the day, leaving one message. Please note, it is posted at our place of business, that we have a ****** termination fee if the tanks are not empty if a consumer chooses to use another provider. We can provide a picture of this sign or please have Mrs. ***** stop in at random at our place of business to discover that this sign is placed visibly for all consumers to read. Mrs. ***** made a decision on her own to not empty our cylinders. It requires a procedure to evacuate propane from the cylinders as we send the cylinders out to maintain current inspections. Then the cylinder come back to us with new valves and current inspection data. If the tanks were empty, this evacuation procedure would not be needed, as stated at our place of business. We can explain this propane evacuation procedure if necessary. The regulator that Mrs. ***** seems to be an expert on, was a **** automatic regulator for residential use, not recreational use. This can be proven if we need to. What was the point, if I may ask of Mrs. ***** stating this? Even though the regulator was/is for residential use, why did Mrs. ***** state it was not? Could it be that this is a way to create drama, by Mrs. *****, to suggest that we would install non workmanship type of equipment? It has nothing to do with the subject of a refund and we feel it is slander towards us and we would suggest that Mrs. ***** get her "facts" straight, before stating facts that are not true. Please be advised that Mrs. ****** new provider, **** ****** used our blocks. If we could, please suggest to Mrs. ***** to contact **** ***** and obtain 3 - 4 inch solid concrete blocks and we will add an additional refund of ******* Please note, when we were advised by Mrs. ***** to remove our equipment, we did so in a timely fashion and we mailed her a refund check, very timely, on ******** check number ***** It is important that all refunds and paperwork be completed immediately in this situation. If we were "not" trying to communicate with her or "not" treating her right by "not" refunding her any money, you would think that a timely refund would "not" of happened, which it did, within a couple days. We pride ourselves on promptness of refunds in this situation and fairness. Since Mrs. ***** wants to state 15 years of business, let us say thank you for that and she knows that I return all her calls. It sometimes takes a while as a result of not being able to talk to her at a home number. If Mrs. ***** had a question about the refund check, perhaps she should of called to question that. Instead, she states to call her back, which we tried twice, as her refund check was on its way and when she gets it, does not call us again, upon being dissatisfied of the amount. Mrs. ***** complains to the Revdex.com over this situation, she created. Conclusion: If she gets the 3 blocks, we will refund ****** more dollars, nothing else, otherwise that is her refund as it stands.Further more, if Mrs. ***** does not cash the refund check number **** by *** *** 2015, we will put a stop payment on it as 90 days is too long to keep a check to be cashed. Thank you.Consumer Response (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)In response to not having a home phone number for us. This is incorrect. As Walter's does at times make phone calls after hours, we have in the past received phone calls to our home phone number. If the number could not be retrieved from the file, we are the only ***** listed in the ******* telephone book in the **** of ***** I do have voice mail at my business telephone number. There were novoice mail messages left from Walter's. Had there voice mail left, I would not have placed follow up calls on ******** ** and ******** *** An average consumer would have a reasonable expectation that return phone calls would be returned during business hours. On the day the tanks were picked up, I was at home as I had come home sick from work. My husband was also home that day. I was in bed sleeping when the pick up occurred. The opportunity to address the matter of the refund up front presented itself. Walter's chose not to take advantage of this opportunity. The refund check clearly stated the ****** was a "pick up fee".Business transactions with Walter's had always been conducted over the telephone. I believe their physical location to be in the ********** area, however I do not know this for sure as I've never had reason to visit their physical location. All documentation as well as their website list a mailing address of a post office box only. Their telephone numbers are an 800 number, a *** *********** exchange), and a *** (a *********** exchange). To have a sign at their physical location (which is not stated anywhere) of their termination fee does not seem sufficient notice to an average consumer who has no true reason to visit the physical location. In regard to being an "expert" in regard to regulators. I stated in the original complaint "We were dismayed to find out...". This information was relayed to us. I was repeating what was relayed to me. I most certainly was upset to hear this as I believe any average consumer would be. Any drama surrounding this issue is being generated by Walter's. In regard to the concrete blocks, as previously stated, these block are quite old, and I actually have no idea if they were supplied by Walter's or not. We did have a propane supplier prior to Walter's. ***** per block certain seems excessive, and one would think they would be a cost of doing business?I was quite surprised that my phone calls were not returned as Walter's had previously returned calls promptly. This is why I made the follow up calls. I made a good faith effort to attempt to communicate with Walter's. Once the check was received in the mail, and I did not receive any return phone calls, an average consumer would reasonably be lead to believe the former provider had no desire to communicate in any fashion. The check arrived with all the notes written in the memo portion of the check. I felt I had no other reasonable, yet seemingly peaceful attempt to resolve a conflict, than to reach out to the Revdex.com. I changed propane suppliers, that's all I did. I purposefully did not mention the new supplier in my complaint as it did not seem relevant to the situation. It is unclear as to why Walter's found it necessary to mention.In regard to the refund check presented. I have not cashed the check as by cashing it, it would have implied I was in agreement of the statement "refund in full". The refund amount is in dispute. The check itself is not printed with the statement void in 90 days. I believe the check to be valid for up to six months under normal circumstances. If Walter's really feels they need to issue a stop payment by *** ***** that is their choice. This sounds a bit threatening, unprofessional, and not a business that prides themselves in "fairness". This action would seem to be retaliatory for changing providers. Cashing of the check has additionally been delayed as a response from Walter's to the complaint was due to the Revdex.com by ***** *** The response from Walter's was entered on ********* Settlement requested is the full balance of the refund due of ****** total. Final Business Response Hello ******** ********* here is my reply to Mrs. *****. First, please understand that stating we, at Walter's are creating "drama" is not the least bit true. We indeed have a lot more productive things to do with our time. Let us address the phone number issue. It is true, we have a home phone number for Mrs. *****. Please be advised that Mrs. ***** has stated to us to contact her at her work number for all her transactions. Also, she called from work to inform us of picking up our equipment. This seems to be a finger pointing situation now and of course Mrs. ***** is going to insist that she is right. Mrs. *****, we really did call your office and we really did leave a message. You did call again, however the check was already in the mail. What was I going to do, call you again when I already called you to state this when you were going to receive the check the next day? It is apparent that you did not receive that message. It happens, a lot of time I have stated to people' "you received my message"? They reply, "no". We can continue to debate this Mrs. ***** or we can move on from here. "During business hours", yes indeed Mrs. *****, we have been operating with calls being returned after "normal business hours" since 1998, but now you seem to address this as a problem? We can continue this debate as well, if you wish. Having a sign at a physical location to describe how a business may charge certain items is a clear way to learn what charges can be accumulated. This is a fact in a Court of Law. Do you wish to go further on this topic? Maybe before you called for us to pick up our tanks, which we did very timely, you could of then asked what charges before, if any, might happen upon termination. We are pretty forgiving on these charges as we charge very minimum fees. Another fact is that every other company, to the best of our knowledge, charges these fees upon pick up of equipment and will stick to their schedule, no matter what. We could list every company, if you wish to discuss this further. The term "dismayed" is an interesting choice of words. Mrs. *****, it is apparent that someone out of the blue educated you to become an expert on regulators. Now that you are an expert, you are "dismayed" at us. The definition of "dismayed" is to cause (someone) to feel consternation and distress. It is also a verb. With that being said, once again, the regulator installed at your location was for residential use. I can provide all documentation on this subject, if you wish us to prove to you that the regulator was a residential type and not an "RV" type. In a sarcastic tone to this subject - " Do you really think that we have nothing better to do than to cause ***** ***** distress in her life, when she finds out we could of installed a RV type regulator, which we did not"? Sounds kind of silly? No Mrs. *****, we wish you no distress in your life and you were never in any danger, nor did we install the wrong regulator. You state you were home that day we picked up our equipment. At least the way I read your statement, you expected us to knock on your door because you were home? You stated to us to pick up the equipment, via work telephone and we did. No need to knock on the door. Maybe you should of came out, if you were sick, maybe your husband should of came out. Talk about throwing in additional drama, as you stated previously. The blocks were replaced in 2010. I have the notes, would you like to see them? If you are an expert on regulators, by some unknown genius, maybe that person knows the concrete blocks, leave the other companies equipment for them, unwritten handshake? When a company takes over an account, the other company has to leave the same or equivalent equipment back to the company being terminated from a location. Your new company used our blocks, they did not leave any as they should. Please take this up with them for justification. Mrs. *****, in your follow up paragraph, you state that the average consumer would reasonably believe that the former supplier did not want to communicate, once the consumer made the initial phone calls? As stated before, we did call you, left a message, it did not make it, or it did, something happened to it, unknown. We are not making this up, simple as this, once again. Once we mailed the check out to you, we really thought she would be happy, which is a very true statement, to get a check so fast, thus not needing to return any other calls, as she will have the check that day, if not that week. We were dismayed, if you will, at this situation, as you decided to contact the Revdex.com. When you got the check, maybe you should of called us again, which you did not, to discuss the amount refunded specifically and we would of been glad to discuss it in great detail. Yes we do indeed provide ourselves on fairness and we are not threatening Mrs. *****, the situation should be common sense. In defense to this, you are right Mrs. *****, we did wait a while to respond to this complaint, as we did not get the original notification. How can we respond if we did not get notified? ******** ******** of the Revdex.com can verify this and it is unknown why we were not notified the first time. So in defense Mrs. *****, please extend the date to our reply time of this notice, which indeed was the beginning of *** to cash that check, for your convenience. You may take your six months, if that is legal, which I will find out and please make it convenient. To summarize, this is a situation that Mrs. ***** is in her words, turning into a "drama". We both do not need this, maybe you do, Mrs. *****, but we do not. I hope with these facts provided, the Revdex.com can see we are reasonable and we really would like to move on. Thank you.