Cox Construction, Pool Sales and Aquatic Design

Review: We recently (and mistakenly) had Cox Pools of Greenville, PA replace our in-ground vinyl pool liner. After much consideration, I have to rate them with 1 out of 5 stars. Here are some of the reasonsby the way, our contract states that all work will be done in a good workmanlike manner, and that he will remedy any defect in the workmanship of which he receives written notice Every single aspect of this job has been incredibly sloppy, beginning with the fact that [redacted], the owner, was hours late for our very first appointment, and ending with the numerous times he promised to show up here and never did. We are disappointed to say the least with his communication, his work, and lack of adherence to schedule. His workers sometimes appeared & sometimes didnt during their supposed scheduled times. After much delay, the liner was in and pool filled with water. It looks ok, BUT, ONLY during the day! The first night following what was to be completion of the job, I turned on the pools underwater light. The light reflecting on the liner, highlights severe damage his workers left behind. In the vermiculite base under the liner, are actual boot prints from his workers tracking completely around sections of the pool they patched prior to dropping the liner. Also on the shallow end, are deep scrapes the workers created in the subsurface, dragging sections of the old liner, and perhaps other debris out of the pool. They lead from the deep end, through the shallow, and to the stairs. These drag marks and scrapes are not something one has to look hard to see. They are up to deep and terribly visible evidence of an extremely poor, unprofessional liner installation.The marred vermiculite is where his workers patched the old vermiculite. The boot prints & drag marks were never there before (as countless visitors of our pool can testify/9- years worth of guests). There is simply no doubt about this. We have conducted research online, and this is not an uncommon problem with sloppy liner replacement jobs. We have also had another pool contractor here, as well as our attorney, who have verified our concerns. Research shows the only remedy for the poor workmanship performed by Cox Pools is to have the new liner removed, the subsurface Cox Pools ruined repaired, and the liner re-dropped into the pool. The estimate for that repair is approx. $4500.We gave [redacted], the owner, written notice of problems with the work immediately after the job was finally completed, approximately a month after wed agreed the work would be done. We asked that he return to look at the job. He said that he would. He never did (after yet another month). He is denying responsibility. Yet, he could not possibly know which defects are his responsibilities, since he never saw them, and that is appalling. The only communication we did receive since then, is a bill for completion of a job that is definitely Not complete. [redacted] insists his workers job is professional and complete, and he has to date, NOT even seen it!Desired Settlement: We paid half of the contract price up front.[redacted] is billing us for the balance.The job is not complete and the pool's subsurface damaged. Option to repair the damage Cox created is estimated at $4500.We are willing to either accept payment for such repair, OR to simply not have to pay the balance owed to Cox Pools.

Business

Response:

Unfortunately, we live in a society that often choses to assess blame where none is warranted. In this case, we have a customer who is trying to get out of paying for a job that was completed according to specifications of our contract. I will attempt to address the items mentioned in this complaint in the order they are alleged. To begin, I work in the field with my employees and we typically work 10 to 12 hours a day during the busy part of our season, therefore I never schedule fixed times with my customers. I make my appointments in the evening and give my customers a time that I know they can be home. For instance, an example of my appointment would have been Thursday June 6th,2013 after 5:00PM. As to not showing up when we were supposed to, this simply is not true. This customer has a pool with vinyl over steps which tend to show many wrinkles. I presented this customer with several options. They could have water delivered and we could be present to move the wrinkles as the water level rose. Since water is not included in our contract, this would have cost them approximately another $1000.00. They did not want to do this. Second option was to fill the pool with their hose and accept the wrinkles in the steps. These are the only two options most pool companies offer. I, on the other hand, offered a third. In order to save them money, I agreed that they could fill the pool with their hose and stop the water level at various stages. At these points, I would either send and employee or personally stop to move wrinkles and then allow them to continue to the next point. I explained that filling a pool with a hose takes additional time which would then overlap with new work we had to start. I explained that this option would save them money but if they chose it, I could not guarantee that I could immediately drop what we would be doing and be present to move the wrinkles. I explained that so extra days might pass. In particular, this customer was angry when he called one afternoon and said the water level was to a point that wrinkles needed to be moved. I explained that he could shut it off and we would be out as soon as possible. He apparently expected us to be out that evening; however, we were working on a job that could have suffered expensive setbacks if not completed before weather moved in. Due to the forecast, we chose to work on that jobsite till dark. At that point, I would not have been able to see well enough to adequately address the issue of moving the wrinkles. I waited till the next day to insure the work was done properly. Keep in mind these are all extra trips which cost me additional money and these trips were all made to help this customer save money. Cox Pools was contracted to do a liner change only. The "contract does not include any structural changes or modifications to existing pool that may be necessary to complete job", and "any changes will result in additional cost to owner which will be discussed at such time as any such concerns arise." This customer was not happy with the wrinkles that were in his previous liner. This was the major focus of our liner change. The customer admits that the liner itself looks OK. He relayed to two of my employees that it looked wonderful and that it was such an improvement from the previous work. The majority of the remaining complaint focuses on the vermiculite bottom and various drag marks and boot prints. We did not patch the areas this customer references. Vermiculite is a concrete product. Properly installed, it is just as hard as a sidewalk and just as resistant to marks and boot prints as a sidewalk. In other words, you would be just a likely to put a boot print in a 10 year old sidewalk as you would a vermiculite base. See attached video of my heaviest employee jumping up and down on a vermiculite bottom with work boots on. I never denied the presence of marks in the bottom. During a phone conversation, I explained that any marks in the bottom of the pool would have been due to improper installation of the pool base done by the company when installing the pool. I explained that the marks would in no way hurt the liner and were simply cosmetic. I further explained that the massive water pressure that was in the pool pressing on the bottom would have prevented prints from forming. The company that installed this pool originally uses premixed bags of vermiculite and portland cement. Quite often, these bags do not contain adequate portland cement or get damp prior to installation which weakens the strength of the final product. In addition, ground water problems can also affect the finished vermiculite base. Evidence of ground water problems existed in this case as the company had buried a sump pump under the vermiculite in the deep end of the pool. This is not the proper way to handle this problem. Excess ground water can also weaken vermiculite. Once emptied, the bottom appeared solid enough to fit the new liner. I explained that as the liner was being spread and worked into place that marks could have occurred, but only if original vermiculite was defective. We only patched one spot the side of a softball which would not explain the extensive areas of damaged vermiculite indicated by this customer. I explained to this customer that fixing the vermiculite would require changes to the structure of the existing pool and that our contract did not include such changes. I fronted money to cover the water delivery to fill the deep end of his pool and explained that the balance of the job was due on completion. I told this customer that I would be happy to discuss his concerns once payment for the work completed up to that point was made. I explained that any such repairs would be an additional cost as it is not possible to leave drag marks and boot prints in properly poured vermiculite. I explained that they needed to decide whether the number of times they used the pool at night justified the $5000.00 to $10,000 price to remove the bottom, properly deal with the water problem, and pour a new bottom. The complaint mentions that the job is not complete because of a damaged subsurface, however, the contract specifically excludes the existing pool. To summarize, this complaint is an attempt by a person of poor integrity to drag the name of a great business through the mud in order to get out of meeting their obligations

Consumer

Response:

There is so much untruthful information in Mr. [redacted]’s post that it will be difficult to respond in a post of reasonable length. The important thing to note it that [redacted] HAS NEVER YET TO THIS DATE EVEN SEEN THE NEW LINER INSTALLED IN OUR POOL, so he has no way of even knowing that the job was completed “according to the specifications of our contract”. Mr. [redacted] states that he never schedules fixed times with customers. This is blatantly untrue. In fact, his very first appointment with us, to give us an estimate on the job, he was about 4 hours late. The guests who were with us commented that they’d never use a contractor who was so lax. Wish we’d listened to them. In regard to the filling of the pool and dealing with wrinkles in the steps, on at least 6 occasions, we were promised that someone would be over so that the job could move on to the next step, and each time, they did not show up or even call. The pool sat for days and days, partially full of water, the project stalled, and weather was not a factor except in one case. In fact, a job that was supposed to have taken 5 days ended up taking nearly that many weeks. In regard to [redacted]’s comment that “wrinkles in the liner were the primary reason for the change”, again, that is simply false. He knows that we were replacing the pool liner because it was brittle and developing holes. We never said or implied that wrinkles were our main focus, although of course we expected wrinkling to be minimal in a brand-new liner. Regarding the boot prints/drag marks in the vermiculite patchwork on the pool bottom, they were not there before [redacted] Pools did their work. Regrettably, we did not photograph or video the “before and after” of the job, because then the damage would be indisputable, as it is clearly visible. The vermiculite patch areas were far larger than he stated. Again, [redacted] has yet to see this for himself, and until he does, he cannot speak with any authority on this or any subject. Finally, in response to the comment that we are attempting to get out of our contractual obligations, our response is this: our home is nearly 100 years old. Needless to say, improvement projects are frequent. In the past year alone, we have dealt with contractors in flooring, painting, roofing, plumbing, driveway, and chimney work. Every one of them was paid on time and in full, when final inspections were complete and the work was completed satisfactorily. The only lack of integrity in this situation is on the part of [redacted] Pools.

Business

Response:

To begin with, there is no untruthful information in my previous response. At no point did I offer a firm time as to when I would be stopping to take a look at the liner prior to the liner change irregardless of what this customer make have told his guests. Perhaps, he misunderstood the arrangements I had made with him. Since this has nothing to do with the work completed, I will no longer address this issue or others like it. In response to the accusation that I have never seen the liner installed in the pool, this is not true. I had personally stopped several times to move wrinkles on the galvanized steps as the water level was brought up; therefore, I saw the liner installed in the pool and it was properly installed. This customer spends a paragraph detailing that the project "was supposed to have taken 5 days and that it took nearly that many weeks" and that he was not contacted when we did not show up. It just so happens that I keep good notes and have saved all the texts with time and date stamps both to and from this customer. The pump to remove water from the pool was placed Monday August 12, 2013. The job began on Wednesday August 14, 2013. The liner change was completed and water delivered to set the hopper and remove vacuums holding liner in place. At this point the customer was again reminded of options for filling pool. He chose to add water from his hose. If he had the water delivered, we would have waited and moved wrinkles as it was pumped in. Customer was instructed where to bring water on steps and contact me. He sent me a text the following day notifying me that water was at proper level. I responded that one of my employees would be by later. He sent another text at 7:53 that no one had shown up. At 8:45 that day, I responded that we had run into problems on the job we were working on (which happened to be in Beaver Falls and threatened by the possibility of rain) and that his pool would have to wait till the following day. He immediately responded back that he wanted me to make it over to his place twice on Friday. I responded that I could not do that and that without having water delivered, it was likely going to be Tuesday before job was completed. He expressed his displeasure with that; however, based on his choices, there was nothing I could have done. The text messages I have saved demonstrate that communication was made. Additionally, the texts also indicate that the job was completed on August 20 th which is exactly 5 working days from the start of the job. In other words, the 5 days the job was supposed to have taken was met, even with the delays he imposed by choosing to fill the pool with water from his own hose. In the next paragraph, this customer again attempts to skew information. I never said that wrinkles were the primary reason for the liner change. I said it was our major focus as the previous job was done so poorly in this regard. Of course the brittle, leaking liner was the reason for the liner change. The main focus of this customer’s complaint really boils down to the boot prints and drag marks. He keeps insisting that I did not see the liner, although untrue. I saw the liner before the final 8" of water was added and the light reinstalled. The customer says the liner looks OK during the day but not at night. I have at no time, both in my conversation with him or in response to this complaint, indicated that I did not believe that boot prints or drag marks are present. I do not need to go there to verify they exist. I believe him. I told him this in our phone conversation. What I explained and he seems to fail to understand, is that a properly poured vermiculite base will not at any time allow for boot prints or drag marks to appear. For them to exist, the original bottom would have to have been installed improperly. This was addressed this in my previous response letter. You can view a video of my heaviest employee jumping up and down on a vermiculite base with work boots that have deep treads by going to the bottom of the homepage on my website @ www.coxpoolspa.com. If you read attached contract, you will see that we were contracted to sell and install a new pool liner at the owner’s property. This was completed. You will also note that number 2 indicates that "Contract does not include any structural changes or modifications to existing pool that may be necessary to complete the job. Any changes will result in additional cost to owner which will be discussed at such time as any such concerns arise." The vermiculite base was a part of the existing pool. We did not pour it. The customer refers to the warranty clause identified in number 3 but fails to point out that number 4 specifically indicates that the warranty is not available unless the entire amount of the bill is paid by the owner in full upon completion of the installation (of the liner). In conclusion, I am willing to remove and replace the liner at no cost to the homeowner so long as he wants to have us fix the previously installed vermiculite properly. This would involve removing and disposal of all existing vermiculite, installing a proper drainage system to handle the ground water, and pouring a new vermiculite bottom. The drainage system would cost $5400.00 and the new bottom would cost $4800.00. The total would be $10,200.00. He would also need to pay off his existing balance on his account before proceeding. Half of the money would need to be paid upfront and the remaining balance would need to be placed in escrow. Please keep in mind that the marks in the existing vermiculite base will in no way harm the liner. After viewing the video you can understand that I did not expect marks to show up in the vermiculite as I assumed it was properly installed to begin with. I am not denying the presence of these marks. I am simply noting that they are not my responsibility. The only way to repair them would be to remove the improperly installed base and start over. I feel bad for the customer but the fault lies in the original choice of contractor not in anything done by Cox Pool Sales. Again, I refer you to the video of a properly poured base.