W.W. Williams Company

I reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find the resolution is satisfactory to me.

Mr. [redacted],First I want to apologize for our apparent lack of responsiveness.  I have reached out this morning to our management team to get a better understanding of what happened and why.  I left a voice mail for you as well to gather any other information on the issue that you want to...

provide.  We should have answers and a proper response to you very soon.  Please contact me at 614-228-5000 ext. [redacted] with any questions.Thanks,Wally WilliamsW. W. Williams

Review: On 04-11-13, I sent my truck WW Williams in Hubbard, OH. for an engine overhaul (Work order number: [redacted]). A couple of days later they called me. They told me that they have to replace the cylinder head, turbo, EGR valve,and exhaust center section. Which I agreed with. The truck was picked up on 04-22-13 and I paid them the amount of $11,269.96 for the work that was completed. The truck was running ok for a little over six months. Then the truck was mixing antifreeze to the oil. We towed the truck to a [redacted] dealer. They found out that the cylinder head fell because it cracked. Then [redacted]r called me to tell me that piston liners (sleeves) have to be replaced. I mentioned to him that those were replaced around 7 months ago (90,000 miles since engine overhaul). He told me that according to his experience the sleeves (liners) were never replaced because they are old and warn. Due to that fact the liners were not replaced when the overhaul happened, the block is damaged. Now, I paid WW Williams for an engine overhaul, why did they not replace the sleeves if I paid for it. They are making excuses and throwing the ball at each other. My truck has been sitting in this dealer for over 40 days. This is the second truck that has been overhauled by WW Williams, that the engine fell on me within the year warranty.Desired Settlement: That I be made whole for all losses incurred up to and including full amount of all repairs and down time

Business

Response:

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to [redacted] complaint. In the complaint [redacted] asserts that we did not replace the cylinder liners when we overhauled the engine in his truck in April of 2013. [redacted]z, our customer support center [redacted] in Hubbard, Ohio and [redacted], our general service [redacted] for our [redacted] have both had conversations with the [redacted]. They both advised [redacted] that we did replace the cylinder liners and have offered to contact a [redacted] representative to inspect the liners or to have the [redacted] dealer do the same. [redacted] also reviewed pictures of the liner cavitation advised that the cause was poor cooling system maintenance. Upon receipt of the complaint, I reviewed the work order and related job notes and verified that our factory trained technician did replace the cylinder kits with new [redacted] genuine cylinder kits. The cylinder kits include the cylinder liners. Both the technician that installed the new cylinder kits and another technician working on the overhaul noted this in their job notes. Each did in their own handwriting. I can provide a copy to the Revdex.com if requested. W. W. Williams strongly disputes the assertion that the liners were not replaced.

Consumer

Response:

Thank you for the response once again. I, [redacted] spoke to [redacted] about this engine failure. I never spoke to [redacted]e. I would be my pleasure to say hello to [redacted] "Like I said, I never talked to [redacted]". When I called him because [redacted] gave me his number; he told me he was driving. That he was going to have someone else call me. That was my whole conversation with him. It was not me saying that WW WIlliams never replaced the cylinder liners. It was the [redacted] dealer where the truck is located that told me that. I am also a mechanic and to my knowledge what I can see in those liners is age. Remember it is not only my word. It is [redacted]s opinion as well. At this point, I feel betrayed because this is the second truck that has had engine failures within the warranty that failed on me.

Consumer

Response:

t this point, the truck is in a [redacted] dealer [redacted] in [redacted] NY" The engine has been taken apart. Which basically they have what they need in their hands. They both are ( [redacted]t certified dealers. So they have what they need. Just that the general [redacted] in [redacted] and the actual Certified Technician that took the engine apart told me that according to their years of experience the sleeve were not replaced by any reason. Because there is no way that the sleeves were going to get that bad in such a short time. The shop [redacted] at [redacted] has told me that he told [redacted] his opinion. This is the last chance that I am going to give WW Williams to come up with a solution because at this point they haven't even made an effort to contact me and try to cooperate with this situation. I guess if I don't get any positive answer at this time, I will have to tell my lawyer to submit a lawsuit. WW Williams can say whatever they want. But any certified mechanic who has anything to do with [redacted] and he will not be afraid to loose his job by telling the truth will stand in front of a judge. They would say their opinion which is WW WIlliams never replaced the sleeves. They are not nine months old. So if WW Williams has any further questions they can talk to each other. With is [redacted] and WW Williams. I just need an answer because my truck has been sitting at this [redacted] dealership in [redacted] NY for two months. I am loosing money just because of it.

Business

Response:

Thank you for help in working through this issue. As you might imagine, we take it seriously when someone makes a statement that we charged for parts but didn’t replace them. At this point we think it is best if we visit [redacted] with a representative from [redacted] Trucks [redacted] (the engine manufacturer) to inspect the cylinder liners I spoke with [redacted] today regarding this complaint and another separate complaint ([redacted] I understand his frustration with the truck out of service and said we would try and work quickly. [redacted] agreed to have us come over to look at the truck if we could make it happen this week. I’ll keep you informed when we have a definite date and then with results of the visit.

Consumer

Response:

Thanks again for your response. I was informed that one of the WW Williams technicians went to inspect the truck located in the [redacted] dealer in [redacted] NY. (3/13/14) Now, I just need to know as soon as possible what [redacted] solution is to the issue at hand.

Business

Response:

It took some time putting all of this information together, but we can definitively show that we did indeed replace the cylinder liners on [redacted] truck. Our general service [redacted] traveled to L[redacted] and inspected the truck with the service [redacted] from [redacted] the attached documentation describing his findings is attached.

Because we showed that this was a cooling system maintenance issue, He asked me to verify that we changed the coolant at the time of overhaul. I verified that our Hubbard shop did replace 6 gallons of coolant with new PowerCool coolant and replaced the coolant filter.

We are still investigating the other separate complaint on another truck and repair, but we do hope this issued is resolved.

Review: On 9/3/13 I took my truck to W.W.Williams Lemoyne OH for a leaking ICV valve and terrible fuel economy,4.5 mpg. I was told I needed a new valve, turbo and VPOD. They made the suggested repairs at cost of $4294.85. After leaving Williams facility we found the truck was not running any better than before. We then took the truck to the Williams shop in Byron Center MI on 9/6/13 and explained our problem.We were told the new turbo needed to be calibrated and they did. After a test drive the technician said the truck was not running correctly but didn't know why. He would send a snapshot from the ECM to [redacted] but it would be 3 days.Upon leaving Byron Center the mileage was still 4.5mpg . We then took the truck into Williams in Phoenix AZ on 9/10/13. I contacted the regional managerat his office in the Phoenix AZ. facility and he told me he would make sure the proper repairs were made.I was contacted by the service manager at the Phoenix shop and told the truck needed an EGR valve and a Charge Air Cooler at a cost of $3628.88. This would fix my problem. Engine was still 60 HP low, faulty injectors suggested as reason and unlikely mpg improvement. I contacted previous owner to find injectors had been replaced and Williams had done all of these same repairs including a complete rebuild before I purchased the truck. When I contacted Williams at their Lemoyne Oh facility I had him pull up chassis and serial numbers and asked why they had made $8,532.52 in unnecessary and duplicate repairs that they themselves had made and had record of in their own system he had no answer, said he would get back to me. He has not. Not one repair made by Williams fixed my truck, which means none of the parts they replaced were properly tested or broken.I have taken the truck to another shop that suggested my problem was electrical. After two hours and less than one dollar in parts my truck is back to 6.3 mpg. Two broken wires at ECM.Desired Settlement: That I be made whole for all losses incurred up to and including full amount of all repairs and down time.

Business

Response:

Mr. [redacted], our general service manager over our Midwest

operations, would like to contact Mr. [redacted] directly this week and discuss

settling his issue. The fact that we

recommended after a certified technician diagnosed that the VPOD needed replaced

because it did not actuate and that the turbo should be replaced because of the

worn VNT shaft were reasonable courses of action. Also the loss of pressure in the charge air

cooler indicates that the charge air cooler is leaking and should be replaced. Likewise a sticking EGR valve is cause for

replacement. The overhaul of the engine

by the prior owner was completed in December of 2010 at 611,000 miles. At the time of the Toledo repair in September

of 2013, the truck had 857,000 miles.

However the repairs performed did not solve his original

complaint of poor fuel economy and surging, and Mr. [redacted] would like to speak directly

with Mr. [redacted] by October 30th to attempt to reach a resolution.

We appreciate the opportunity to resolve the complaint and will contact the Revdex.com immediately after Mr. [redacted] and Mr. [redacted] speak this week with an update.

Consumer

Response:

: A company representative contacted me on Friday November 1, 2013. He was unprepared and unfamiliar with several details. He told me that he would have to get more information and would get back with me.

Meanwhile I am forwarding you the invoices on the repairs done by previous owner and also my own for your review. I can only send you the first 11 pages and will come back to send the last 15

Business

Response:

We reached an agreement with Mr. [redacted] on 11/12/13 to refund approximately $5200.

Consumer

Response:

Thank you again in regards to my claim concerning W W Williams. They have returned over $5000.00 in parts and labor.

I had absolutely no cooperation from them prior to the Revdex.com getting involved.

Thank you again for all your help,

Review: On 12/10/13 I took my truck to W.W. Williams for service because the unit would shake at times under acceleration. A technician hooked my truck up to a laptop and checked the codes, he found code for #4 injector and also said there was a lot of play in the turbo. The injector and turbo was replaced along with some other repairs. Everything seemed to be fine then on 6/19/14 I took my truck back to W.W. Williams because I was getting the same sound that I had in December 2013. A technician pulled my truck into the shop and found it had a bad turbo. I said well the turbo is under warrenty right because it has only been six months since you put a new one on and the warranty is for twelve months? I was told no we can't fix it under warranty because the injestion and fins are damaged. I ask what does that mean and was told well it could be caused by a few different things, I ask like what and they were not sure exactly maybe a dirty air filter, I said as you can see the filter you took off is not dirty, I change it regularly, they still could not give me a direct answer as to what caused this, I said your shop installed the new turbo in December so how could anything get in it and still I did not get a direct answer other than it is not covered under warranty. The technician never took me out into their shop and showed me anything that they said they found. Now my truck is down and I had to pay them again to put another turbo on so I could get my truck back on the road.Desired Settlement: I feel the company should have replaced the turbo under the warranty they gave me and I am asking to be reimbursed for the second turbo I had to pay for on 6/20/14.

Business

Response:

Hi. I talked with [redacted] after the repair. He is a nice gentleman that is understandably upset about needing to replace his turbocharger twice in less than a year. After reviewing the repair notes from the repair, we can confirm that our original finding that the turbo sustained compressor wheel damage from dirt ingestion is accurate. The source was a dirty or perhaps improperly seated air filter. All of the other components were inspected and were clean. This is not a warrantable failure from the manufacture, Detroit Diesel, per their guidelines. Please note that the interval for the air filter is an inspection every 15k miles. We quoted an air filter on the original turbo replacement in December, and it was declined. The truck traveled 42,000 miles between turbo replacements.

All of that said, we feel badly that the repair was not one we could submit for warranty. The repair itself was performed properly, but we could have taken the opportunity to spend more time with [redacted] We could have shown him the damage and explained it more thoroughly. We considered this a good thing that he let us know. We will learn from this. Because [redacted] pointed out an opportunity for us to get better, we would like to offer him a free lube, oil, and filter service. (Includes: Drain and refill oil, change two filters and lube chassis.) This is a $300 value.

We still have the damaged turbo. A picture is attached along with the manufacturer’s recommended guidelines for replacement. Our Customer [redacted] contacted [redacted] today. [redacted] is going to come in on the 11th or 18th of July. At that time, we’ll show him the turbocharger, talk about the repair process, and learn more about how we can be a better service provider to him.

Thanks,

Consumer

Response:

I am rejecting this response because: I still feel the turbo was covered under warranty for one year and I didn't do anything to cause this failure. When the first turbo was put on the air filter had only been on for three weeks. [redacted] said he would retrieve the turbo from the scrap pile and show me the problem, that was well after the fact and I have no way of knowing if this is even the turbo that came off my truck, the Tech should have shown me this at the time when he took it off my truck. I ask Mr. Ruff if the turbo could have been installed incorrectly and he immediately replied NO. [redacted] agrees that this is a learning tool for them in the future but that doesn't help me with the costs that I have incurred. I do not feel his offer is acceptable in correcting this problem.

Consumer

Response:

As requested, I have attached my invoice for the initial turbo install in Decembr 2013 and my invoice for the second turbo install in June 2014. Thank you.

Review: I took my truck to WW Williams in Hubbard Ohio on 12-17-12. (Work order number [redacted] I thought that it was about time to do an overhaul in the engine. WW Williams recommended to me to do an engine overhaul, replace cylinder head, plus two injectors that were not atomizing correctly. Which I agreed to it. I picked up the truck on 1-2-13 and paid them $[redacted] for the work that they completed. The truck ran ok for six months. Then on 7-01-13 and 60,173 miles later the truck began to have an engine knock. I towed the truck to the nearest [redacted] dealer which was [redacted] in [redacted]. The found metal debris in the oil. Then they decided to drop the oil pan. They found a broken crankshaft. After that, they told me to come and pick up the truck because I did not replace the crankshaft on the previous overhaul-warranty will not cover it. Which made me feel hopeless. I took the truck to a local shop. They told me to the internal mess in the engine they could not tell me exactly what failed. I felt out of luck and was left with no choice but to fix the engine out of pocket. It cost me over $[redacted]. Then I called [redacted] (WW Williams in Hubbard, Ohio) for another similar matter in one of my other trucks. I mentioned to him what happened with this truck that I am currently speaking of. He said that something inside the engine must have failed which causes the crankshaft to snap in two pieces. Because a crankshaft just don't break. But WW Williams overhauled the engine not me. I have made a second complaint against WW Williams (Hubbard, OH) for a similar matter on a DIFFERENT truck but the two have NOTHING to do with each other. They are completely two different cases. The second complaints file number is [redacted]Desired Settlement: I want to be made whole for all losses incurred up to and including full amount of all repairs and down time.

Business

Response:

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to [redacted]' concern. Williams did perform a basic overhaul (what is marketed by Detroit as a Step 1) in December 2012 at the request of the customer. Additionally we machined counterbores and installed new inserts and replaced two faulty injectors and the exhaust manifold. The crankshaft was not replaced and would not be covered under the overhaul warranty. As the crankshaft is not a wear item, it is not a recommended practice to replace or remove and inspect the crankshaft when a customer requests an engine overhaul. The overhaul and additional repairs were performed by factory trained technicians and quality checked prior to releasing the unit. The failure of the crankshaft is not a workmanship issue related to the engine overhaul or a warrantable part failure. Our customer support manager in Hubbard, [redacted] and our general service manager for our Midwest divsion, [redacted], have both talked with [redacted] and are familiar with this case should [redacted] or the Revdex.com have any further questions.

Consumer

Response:

Thank you for your response. As [redacted] the manager of WW Williams in Hubbard, Ohio told me over the phone that something else must fail in the engine to make the crankshaft snap in half and damaging the whole engine. So I believe that before you say something I think that you should call [redacted] to confirm that he stated something else must have failed in the engine causing the crankshaft to snap in half. I did spoke to. [redacted] over the phone for less than a minute and he didn't even give me the chance to talk to him because he told me that he was driving. He told me someone else will contact me. The reason I called [redacted] was to talk about the other case I have open against WW Williams for another engine failure. So please before you respond back to this make sure you have things in order because your mixing things up. At this point I already fixed the truck out of pocket. What I am asking WW Williams is to compensate me.

Business

Response:

Thanks again for facilitating this issue. I spoke with [redacted] today regarding this complaint and another separate complaint ([redacted]). In order to investigate the cause of the broken crankshaft further, I asked [redacted] to send along some information about the failure. We are asking for: 1. A copy of the invoice from the repair facility in New Jersey that fixed the engine along with a contact name. 2. Any statement from the mechanics or management at this facility about what caused the failure. 3. The location of the broken crank shaft and pictures if possible. 4. Any statement from [redacted] in [redacted] about the failure or cause of the failure. [redacted] said he would find out if the crank was still available and get the rest of the information to me. As soon as we get it, we should be able to review it and respond quickly.

Business

Response:

Using the information provided by [redacted], we’ve investigated his complaint as thoroughly as we can without the ability to inspect the crankshaft. I have talked with [redacted] several times. He is a very nice gentleman who is obviously frustrated with the amount of time and money he has spent on repairs to this vehicle. We’ve reviewed our repair notes as well as the invoices from [redacted] and [redacted]. There is no indication at all that the repair we performed in December 2012 led to the crankshaft on his truck breaking. Because we value [redacted] and his business, we have offered a goodwill gesture of $[redacted] on Friday, April 4th. He stated that he wanted to discuss the offer with his attorney and did not accept or reject the offer yet.

Business

Response:

Hi. [redacted] did respond directly to us. He had another truck down in another shop and asked if we would change our goodwill offer and provide him some parts at no cost instead of giving him a credit. We provided [redacted] with a cylinder head and an overhaul kit. The retail value of these parts is over $5,800.

Review: Serpentine belt 30 miles (4 weeks) After new alternator was installed. Service writer said it was a pulley or not installed properly. No parts were changed just a belt so it had to be misinstalled, I added freon during the time it was at home. Raised the motor a little. The AC is driven by a separate belt that is still there before & after the other belt breaking.

They are trying to say increasing the RPM caused the belt to break. The RPM increase when you drive the vehicle always.Desired Settlement: Consumer did not provided desired settlement.

Amount involved $493.00

Business

Response:

Thank you for informing us of this complaint. We have begun investigating the details and will report back shortly.Thanks,

Business

Response:

Mr. [redacted] returned to our Hilliard facility 30 days after we replaced his alternator with a belt that had melted off the pulleys. He stated that he was working on his air conditioning system and had over-revved the engine while trying to replace freon and the belt came off. We advised Mr. [redacted] that we would inspect the alignment of the pulleys to ensure that it was not an issue from the previous repair. Our certified technician verified the pulleys were in alignment.

We advised Mr. [redacted] of the diagnosis and that he would be responsible for the cost of replacing the belt. Mr. [redacted] signed the work order, authorized payment on a credit card, acknowledged the work. He also authorized us to replace a 4-way flasher on the same repair order.

The next day, Mr. [redacted] called and requested we reconsider the charges. We offered a $400 credit for future repairs. He returned within a couple of days with the thermostat issue. We diagnosed repair and offered to apply the credit to a portion of repairing the thermostat and gauges. Mr. [redacted] declined and disputed the charge on his credit card for the belt replacement. The credit card company later reversed the dispute and paid us.

Despite that the belt failure was not the result of a workmanship issue, we understand Mr. [redacted]'s frustration and will increase the refund offer to $500. We will issue a check in that amount to Mr. [redacted].

Thank you for the opportunity to help resolve this issue.

Consumer

Response:

Settlement check received by Mr. [redacted]. He is very satisfied.