Accident Claims Service

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 8, 2017/03/24) */
Contact Name and Title: [redacted]
Contact Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Contact Email: [redacted].[redacted]
The grout used is [redacted]. It does not need sealing as traditional grouts do, and has a mold inhibitor. On my first visit to the P's I...

observed that the original tile installation was flawed is two ways:
1. The netting that holds the stone work together could be seen poking through the grout. This was allowing moisture through the grout to under the floor, which would have eventually caused the floor stone work to break loose from the cement base.
2. The corner wall tiles are spaced too closely together, which does not allow the grout to penetrate as deeply as any competent installer would like.
The P's are certain that water got under the grout, causing mold to growth from underneath. Based on the information they provided and my own observations, I told them that if we removed and replaced the floor and wall strip stone work with tile, and replaced the existing shower grout, the problem of new mold growth would be eliminated. This was specifically predicated on the assumption that the mold was growing from under the existing grout due to water penetration, caused by poor installation of the original stone work and grout. If this were true we would expect to see moisture, discoloration and weakening of the underlayment (sheet rock), and the presence of mold under the floor stone work. I informed the P's that the only way to truly eliminate mold was to completely remove it; that if mold was growing on the underlayment, removing all of the tile and underlayment and rebuilding the shower was the only true mold removal option. They were adamantly against this. I told them that by not truly removing the mold using the method described above, the mold would always be present but would not continue to grow so long as moisture was kept away from it.
When the grout was removed there was no sign that mold had ever been under the wall tile. No mold was present under the grout, no moisture or discoloration and the underlayment was completely intact. I was called back to the job site because mold was re-appearing after re-grouting. I scratched the grout from a few places where mold was present. There was still no indication that the mold was coming from under the grout. When the new grout was merely cleaned at the surface, there was no discoloration left on the grout. For the mold to have been growing from under the grout and then appearing on the surface, it would had to have originated under the grout, penetrated completely through the grout and would then be visible all the way to the underlayment. When the grout was scratched completely out in a few test spots I found no moisture, no discoloration, no presence of mold beneath the grout, and the underlayment was still intact. I have pictures of this.
I told the P's I would contact the grout vendor and see if we could contact [redacted] through them. The hope was [redacted] would have something to offer on mold abatement and discoloration problems. I sealed the test spots with a temporary, clear silicone. I was asked to return to the P home to replace that seal with grout. On this visit I let them know that I had spoken with the Greene County, MO Health Department about the issue and though they have no policies regarding mold, they thought the mold was most likely growing on the surface of the tile and recommended installing better ventilation in the bathroom and leaving the shower door open when not in use. Mr. P became very agitated, called me a liar, and said that there was no way that the county health department didn't have official policies regarding mold. Mr. P stated that he knew quite a bit about mold due to his biological warfare training in the Army, at which point I acquiesced to his self-described expertise and asked what he would recommend. He said that it was quite simple; just use a 1/2% bleach solution and that would kill the mold. When I asked why this hadn't worked when they claimed to be bleaching the shower every week, Mr. P said it was because the mold was in the walls. I offered to strip the entire shower of all grout again, inject bleach into the grout lines, bring in a large blower to completely dry out the shower, and re-grout, all at no cost to them. They said they would have to think about it.
I was called to the P home again because they had spotted 1-1/2" of grout line on an inside corner nearest the top of the wall that had been missed when we grouted, as well as two other places they felt needed to be touched up. Mr. P insisted that the whole mold problem was my fault. He restated water and mold were present in the walls, and I crawled under their house to look for any signs of moisture that would have certainly found its way under the walls and into the crawl space. I found none. I told the P's that since our last meeting I had spoken with a true mold expert at a hazardous materials/waste disposal company. I was told they've seen this many times and that more and better ventilation was the best solution. He also said that 1/2% household bleach solution will only kill surface mold; that if the mold was in fact in the walls, the shower would need to be completely rebuilt (as I had previously advised) to truly remove the mold. He also said mold spores are in the air almost everywhere and will adhere to any organic material and grow in the right environment; like moisture in a small shower with little to no ventilation. When I asked him directly he said that yes, mold can be cleaned with bleach or products labeled for mold removal and reappear only days later under these conditions. Mr. P and he said he was not interested in talking to my "so-called expert".
I asked Mr. P his opinion and what I could do to make this right. He told me, "It's very simple! It's called water vapor! It's getting in that crack you left open near the ceiling, finding its way down the wall, and then growing mold in that corner". I asked Mr. P, as a mold expert, how vapor could find its way into a wall near ceiling, run down the inside of the wall, stop above the floor, start growing mold, never find its way under the house, nor cause any other mold or deterioration to the underlayment anywhere else along that path. And how does that explain the mold in the other areas of the shower? Mr. P left the room. I continued the conversation with Mrs. P, saying that I really want to find a solution to this problem. Mr. P came back and told me to get out of their house.
Mrs. P and I both contacted [redacted] separately. I spoke with the representative that visited the job site, and he said that it's one of the better installations he's seen. He is of the opinion that the mold is likely growing on the surface of the tile and grout, not coming from underneath due to the facts that he was able to easily clean the mold from affected surfaces leaving no sign it was there, the tile is structurally intact, and there were no apparent defects in the installation of the grout. He told me Mrs. P asked him to write a letter stating that there were problems with the grout installation and that I had misrepresented the product. The representative refused to write any such letter.
There is no, "information that is mandated to be presented to consumers about the product at time of purchase", as stated in the P's complaint. I contacted our vendors and [redacted], and confirmed that the only information needed to be provided is in the info packet affixed directly to the product container, which I did hand directly to Mr. P. I have never stated to any client at any time that [redacted], nor any other product, is a "cure for all mold".
Any "trepidation" the P's had regarding replacing the grout were not communicated in any way prior to the beginning, or during the work. It was not until my third visit to their home after the installation that Mr. P said he, "never believed the grout would fix this". I wonder why anyone would pay any amount for something they didn't believe would fix the problem they were most concerned about. Our contract with the P's has four line items:
1. Remove stone tile and all grout from master shower
2. Install new floor tile and wall strip
3. Re-grout entire shower
4. Remove and replace shower pan (if necessary)
The Ps told me during one of our first visits that the person who originally installed the shower had got to a point where he refused to return any of their calls or messages. After having visited their home four times post installation and being thrown out, perhaps the original installer had experienced some of the verbal abuses. I'd be curious to know whether they have filed complaint(s) against this installer as well. I feel empathy that they have mold in their shower but there is no evidence that it's related to the grout, and we have fulfilled our contract.
We have been a registered business in the state of Missouri since 2008, have had one Revdex.com complaint in the last three years, and have an A+ rating with the Revdex.com.