Acupuncture & Naturopathic Clinic

Review: On June 24th 2013, my husband [redacted] went for the first time at Acupuncture and Naturopathic Clinic where he met with Dr. [redacted] and Dr. ** He was seeking treatment for a chronic skin condition. [redacted] is hearing impaired so I went with him to the clinic to help explain his condition. 5 supplements were sold to him as treatment for his condition. On June 27th we noticed that two of the supplements were expired (Grapefruit seed extract exp 6/12 and Black currant oil exp 6/13). I called the clinic and told dr. [redacted] that two of the supplements were expired and that my husband will return them on July 2nd 2013 when he was scheduled for his next visit. Dr. [redacted] told me to keep the supplements and for [redacted] to continue to take them. He also said that he would give him some other supplements free of charge.On July 2nd 2013, Dr. [redacted] gave [redacted] 2 medicated products -Psorex and Psoractin- that were expired 7/10. I called the clinic and told them about the products being expired and NOT natural. Both Dr. ** and Dr. [redacted] insisted that [redacted] should use these products, justifying that they themselves are using expired medication.On July 9th 2013, after doing research on the internet we discovered that there is a major controversy concerning the Grapefruit seed extract. It seems like the grapefruit seed and pulp itself doesn't have any anti-bacterial or anti-fungal properties and is processed with very strong chemicals (some known carcinogens) that have anti-bacterial and anti-fungal effect. On July 9th 2013, we emailed Dr. [redacted] and Dr. ** regarding this matter and asking for a refund for the two expired supplements. We followed up with emails on 7/10/13 and 7/11/13 and with a phone call on 7/11/13 but the doctors refused to respond. Copies of emails are included as attachment, also photos of expired supplements can be provided.Desired Settlement: $49 (the cost of two expired supplements including tax) to be refunded.

Business

Response:

This complaint comes to us as a surprise. We are known as experienced caring doctors in our profession. For this case, both of our doctors thought clients were happy and satisfied. The patient’s wife reported that her husband's 20 years condition improved 60% in about a two week period under our care. We returned each of her calls in a timely manner. As for the last phone message which was on 07/11/13, she just asked us to call her back, or to check the email she sent to us. We viewed her email and found there was no medical emergency or new information, other than what we had already discussed with her the week before. Her e-mail was very long with lots of attached websites. At first, we missed her request for refund at the very bottom. After two business days, when we called back to ask her to return the items, she didn’t answer the phone but we left a message for her. The medicines were not returned but we sent the requested refund anyway. The wife of the patient apparently feels like we didn’t spend enough time on the phone with her or we didn't respond to her questions quick enough, though we did spent much out of clinic time with her on the phone.

In conclusion, we never insisted to have her husband keep taking the herbal medicine and vitamins that they have concerns about. We didn’t refuse to have the items returned and refunded. We didn't refuse to respond. We just didn't call her back immediately on her schedule, because:

1) In her phone message, she didn’t indicate that her husband's condition needed urgent care.

2) In her e-mail, there was no new information other than what was discussed with her previously.

3) Her husband had an appointment with us, in just 2 business days, to go over further questions in person.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I find the response provided by Acupuncture and Naturopathic Clinic to be NOT entirely truthful so I will be addressing several points of their letter.

1. "The patient's wife reported that her husband's 20 years condition improved 60% in about a two week period under our care."

This statement is correct however we realized that this was the effect of the strong chemicals (carcinogens) used in the prescribed Grapefruit Seed Extract. At the same time, the prescribed [redacted]'s Calendula Cream also contains Grapefruit Seed Extract. [redacted]

As indicated in our original email sent to the doctors, my husband stopped using the Grapefruit Seed Extract. He also stopped using the Calendula Cream after we received confirmation from the manufacturer that it contains Grapefruit Seed Extract.As a result, my husband's chronic skin condition returned 100% so he stopped using all the supplements prescribed by Dr. [redacted].

2. "We viewed her email and found there was no medical emergency or new information, other that what we had already discussed with her the week before."

This statement is NOT true.

We never talked about the Grapefruit Seed Extract other than the product being expired. In our initial email we were informing the doctors that we are concerned about the supplements prescribed. We indicated for the first time that there is a major controversy regarding the Grapefruit Seed Extract. This issue was addressed in the first paragraph of our email. In our email we also stated: "In the light of this new information Alex decided to stop taking the grapefruit seed extract."

Also never discussed before was the fact that we found out that using expired vitamins and supplements could lead to health complications. We quoted one of the articles: "...gelatin capsules and liquid supplements do not have a long shelf life. Oxidation occurs with time, despite the best efforts to keep the supplement cool and out of the light. Oxidation of fat is carcinogenic". The prescribed expired Black Currant Oil was gelatin capsules.

3. "After two business days, when we called back to ask her to return the items, she didn't answer the phone but we left a message for her.

This statement is NOT true.

Our initial email was sent July 9th, 2013. The doctors only responded after I filled a claim. We received two phone calls from the doctors on July 15th and 16th.On Monday, July 15th 2013, Dr. ** called and left a message not for me, but for my husband to remind him of his appointment on July 16th. She also asked him to return the the two medicated products expired July 2010 that were given to him free of charge, if he was not planing on using them. Dr. ** said that he could return them the next day when his appointment was scheduled. She did not mention anything about the two disputed expired supplements. This voice message was automatically saved in audio format on virtual answering system. Please find a copy attached.On Tuesday morning, July 16th 2013, Dr. [redacted] called and left a message for my husband, again not for me, saying that if [redacted] was not planning on using the two expired medicated products that were given to him free of charge to return them to the clinic so that "somebody else could use them". Again nothing was mentioned about the two disputed expired supplements. This voice message was saved on answering machine.

4. "The medicines were not returned but we sent the requested refund anyway."

This statement is partially correct.

The medicines were not returned because that doctors never addressed the issue of the two disputed expired supplements. They never asked us to return those two products to them for a refund. We received a check for $49 from the business and we could return the expired supplements and medicated products at any time if this is what the business is requesting.

5. The wife of the patient apparently feels like we didn't spend enough time on the phone with her or we didn't respond to her questions quick enough..."

This statement is NOT true.

I find the business to be highly unethical because the doctors are selling really old expired products to their patients, and are absolutely refusing to respond when certain concerns are presented to them.6. ..."though we did spend much out of clinic time with her on the phone."This statement is correct however this was before we expressed our concerns to the doctors.

7. "In conclusion, we never insisted to have her husband keep taking the herbal medicine and vitamins that they have concerns about.

We didn't refuse to have the items returned and refunded. We didn't refuse to respond. We just didn't call her back immediately on her schedule..."This statement is NOT true.

As indicated previously, the business never addressed our concerns. After receiving our initial email the doctors refused to talk to us. We only heard from them almost a week later after I filled claim. Again, our concerns were never addressed.

8. "In her email, there was no new information other than what was discussed with her previously."As indicated before, this statement is NOT true.

In conclusion, we are satisfied with the fact that the business refunded us the requested amount. However, the untruthful information presented by the business in response to our claim, along with their unethical business conducts and lack of integrity should be taken in consideration when reviewing this business.

Respectfully,