[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of MediationIf you wish, you may update it before sending it.]Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] ,and find that Mediation is necessaryRegards, [redacted]
MsPettys-Roth, Thank you for your continuing efforts in resolving Case #***. I do not feel that the responses from Dangel Brothers Carpenter Contractors, Incanswer the complaints originally submittedI am sending copies of e:mails so you can follow the progression of the kitchen remodelThe e:mail dated Feb 4, shows that a second payment was provided, but I was still questioning their workmanship at that pointOn Feb 2, 2016, I texted *** *** that there were a lot of noticeable imperfections in their workmanshipI did not cancel the check because I thought as a reputable company they would fix the issuesI came to find out there were other hidden problems as I took their advice from e:mail dated Feb 18, “Please make a choice on how it get’s remedied, rely on friends or family for idea’s or help.” I filed my complaint after having their workmanship reviewed, meeting with them in mid- March and giving them an additional chance to fix thingsThe complaints about the new electric and new appliances not being installed to Electrical Code have nothing to do with the existing knob and tube wiring elsewhere in the house. The kitchen originally only had a stove and refrigeratorA new dishwasher and microwave were discussed upfront and provided for the remodelThere was no existing circuitry for the new appliancesThe contract states installation of new appliances, therefore new electric and circuitry would need to be provided for those new appliancesI still do not have an answer for why the new counter-top outlets do not have separate circuitry and are not ground fault protected (GFI)The Dangel Brothers suggested more electrical outlets closer to the counter-tops in correspondence dated Dec 22, I responded to proceed and that I did not remember CodeI am sending a copy of that e:mail and the National Electrical Code that indicates requirements for new appliances and counter-top outlets under separate cover. It wasn’t until *** *** met with me in March, to discuss their poor workmanship that he mentioned anything about the electrical panel being fullNot once was I informed that there was an issue with the electric or that they weren't going to follow Electrical Code when installing the new appliances or adding the suggested new countertop outlets. I still do not know why I was charged for seven (7) recessed lights when only six (6) were installedThey chipped the ceiling plaster when installing the five (5) recessed ceiling lightsThe ceiling was not chipped priorNow it needs to be repaired and repainted (images attached) During the above mentioned meeting, *** *** acknowledged the poor ceiling mud work and the trowel marks on the ceiling and walls, the chips around each recessed light, and how poorly the paint looked The original quote provides a price for painting the entire kitchenE:mails explained that if I kept the pantry monies would be deductedIt did not say that if I kept the pantry I would be charged additional monies for paintingThe pantry is part of the kitchen and the quote is for the entire kitchenAs I mentioned originally, I brought up patching the pantry walls before painting when the Dangel Brothers and the owner of the cabinet company came over to discuss the window issues in January, Nothing was mentioned about additional costs for painting the pantryI have enclosed images of the workmanship in the pantryYou can see that plaster patching is poorly done and the painter just painted over flaking paintAlso, They did not answer why they installed a scratched window sill, drilled a hole in the cabinet side panels (which was an extra cost that Dave said to deduct), the misalignment of the corner cabinet, the missing electrical front plate covers, exposed wiring and doorbell not being reinstalled I will be in-touch to make sure you receive the additional information via the US Postal Service Sincerely, *** *** Tell us why here
[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of Mediation. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID .[redacted], , and find that Mediation is necessary. Regards,[redacted]
I feel that I’ve explained and represented myself and my company over this complaint in several fashions and explanations with solid information, which is actually taking away from clients that are paying their bills.The last bill presented to Ms. [redacted] was invoiced on 2-18-16, the complaint wasn’t presented till 6-6-16, can we all agree that is grossly overdue for payment. I know that Lynne has more info then she probably wanted to read through. There was no electrical or Cincinnati remolding permit applied for in Ms. [redacted]’s benefit. Due to the fact there would have been extreme expenses involved to get her knob & tube wiring up to new codes that would have made her rewire most of the building. The expense of permits & electrical changes would have exceeded her budget for the kitchen remodel. My contract doesn’t state any electrical circuits added, only recessed lighting added from the original lighting circuit. The contract states installation of appliances only. I did mention that both new unexpected circuits were on one breaker, due to the fact that there’s no more room in the panel. A tandem breaker was installed later to provide the two circuits being separate @ the cost of $375. in addition to the contract amount. It might appear at a glance that there’s more room in the panel. Ms. [redacted]’s original panel has the wrong panel cover installed, there’s no buss bar inside the panel to hold another breaker in it. Ms. [redacted] made the decision to keep the existing pantry, that was fine with me. She was never billed the $ 500. for it’s removal or the venting of the hood . My bills are very descriptive to support that. I was charged extra from the painter for the pantry wood shelving, door, casing & base board inside & out. Due to the fact the contract states pantry removal which required limited wall & ceiling paint. I invoiced Ms. [redacted] $ 665. for the pantry inside & outside painting that was supposed to be disposed of.There’ve been several comments on the plaster walls and ceiling. To put things in perspective, it’s a 75 plus year old two family house that has plaster style finish. There was originally poor lighting and dull paint. Providing three times the lighting & brighter wall paint reviled wall texture that was never viewed to Ms. [redacted] before. The original kitchen ceiling was out of level and that’s the transition described, in the ceiling continuation installed level. It’s a common issue with ceiling & floor joist that we have to fit crown mold in new and old buildings to fit. The drywall described was for the removal of the soffits, not to repair items in the whole room.In reference to any discussion/ meetings over the tight window/cabinet issues. Again I’m the installer and didn’t have full control over the cabinets that were selected and purchased by Ms. [redacted]. There were meetings over the window/cabinet/sill issues, along with several samples to improve the final outcome for Ms. [redacted]’s happiness. I’m exhausted thru this whole process as Ms. [redacted] couldn’t figure out her likes and dislikes.My clients turn into my friends as I do everything to apes there final product. It has been difficult to make that happen in this case as Ms. [redacted] thought there was more to the contract then quoted.A contract is created to inform the client what duties are provided for a certain amount of money. At the end of the day Ms. [redacted] did get a floor replaced, her dated steel cabinets and stainless top removed: new cabinets/appliances/tops/baseboards/ two new windows/lighting/two circuits/drywall/painting installed and finished as a functional kitchen space that she’s using.The billed invoices add to $7,887. The current received amount is $ 5,062. I’m feeling that the non-payment of $ 2,825. crevices as her discount/refund. We understand thru Ms. [redacted]’s aggressive actions that there’s no plan to continue with myself being her contractor. Any corroboration has been lost thru her actuations against my long term business. There’s not really a resolution desired, only a discount on her project. All work was completed months before the complaint. With aggravation- frustration to keep a client happy. Sorry for that! [redacted]
Thanks so much for the chance to respond to the complaint at hand.Please check my attachment with my response.I've also responded thru regular mail to this situation.Thanks [redacted]Dangel Bros Carpenter Contractors Attention [redacted]Revdex.comI’m only responding online...
to defend the complaint from Ms. [redacted] over the remodel of her kitchen. There’s several thoughts that come to mind over the project. We had a good relationship in our meetings and start of the project. I’m sending a lot of information through mail to give history about the project. A lot of the complaint is about electric which was an afterthought during the project & not in my contract, so of course it would be an additional expense. There is also complaint of the tight cabinet & window space that was due to the pantry that was in the contract to be removed, it was decided by the client and maybe regretted later after leaving the pantry that there was 10’ of space that appeared crowded. The client purchased the cabinetry and made all decisions about the design and space. It needs to be clear that the site is a 70 plus year old two family house. The 2nd floor kitchen is out of level/plumb/straightness, it has real plaster walls from that date which affects the project. Cornerstone Cabinets, designer and owner per my request visited the job site along with myself to help Ms. [redacted] with ideas for the cabinet & window trim/sill and tight space that wasn’t visualized at the time of the cabinets being ordered. I’ll prove that my relationship has been of care/concern to make my client happy, but it’s ironic that all complaints came after there was money due from my last invoice. To give Dangel Bros. creditability for their reputation and high caliber of people/ companies we’ve worked for in the past. All of our clients speak of our care/concern of their property, our integrity and craftsmanship. Those are clients like [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] all work at their residences. I’ve performed multiple projects for clients in the [redacted] golf club (West Chester). I’m a preferred remodel installer for [redacted] [redacted] window companies. I’ve installed cabinets & preferred installer for [redacted] & have also installed [redacted] [redacted] products. I have worked in both [redacted] [redacted] appliances showrooms. I’ve performed cabinet & inside trim for [redacted] Homes, [redacted] Builders & [redacted] Construction. Along with several store remodels at [redacted] Sporting Goods on 4th street downtown. I’ll of these should build integrity work ethic and background on our business. I wouldn’t have this type of client history if I didn’t perform the work printed on my contract. I’m clear with clients that if it doesn’t say I’m performing a particular task then it will be an additional expense. Maybe Ms. [redacted] assumed that I’d skim coat/fix all the dated kitchen walls, when the contract addressed the soffit removal/repairs. After having access to the property throughout the project, I wanted to return to satisfy some of her request. The key had been removed & reports about our company have been broadcasted. It seems like the client doesn’t want me to complete her items, maybe because of the past due invoice. To ask for a refund along with the invoice due seems ridiculous. I pride myself and my company on our hard work and craftsmanship and would like to be recognized after being in business for 26 plus years with a trail of repeat clients. ...⇄ Sincerely [redacted] ...⇄ Dangel Bros. Carpenter Contractors
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
In response to Case ID[redacted] I think any homeowner or commercial business that uses Dangel Brothers Carpenter Contractors would think that not following Building and Remodeling Codes are a big deal. Based on the Dangel Brothers’ response, it is clear that following Electrical Code is not important to them. There is nothing that excuses them from the responsibility of following Codes when providing services. The new appliances should have had their own circuit in the beginning. When the countertop outlets were added, isn’t the issue. When I made Dave aware of the electrical issues he told me he personally ran all the wires and ground fault protected the countertop outlets in the basement. After further questioning, he “remembered” the electrical panel was full and still needed to finish the job. The electrical panel was not full and there are still plenty of spaces for circuits to this day. His second attempt to correct the electric still did not correct the problems. The pantry is not an issue for me, contrary to what Dangel Brothers imply. The cabinet that is not aligned is on the other side of the sink and does not touch the cabinet that is next to the pantry. Our email conversations, stated that I would keep the pantry and he would deduct $500.00 off the invoice (of which I see no evidence). Due to my work schedule and lack of daylight in the winter months, I didn’t see some of these issues visible under natural light. Unfortunately, I had already paid them another portion of the invoice. Every recessed light that they installed has chips in the plaster around the lights. Their mud work is not smooth and visible changes in the ceilings and walls are visible. Instead of correcting the ceiling transition from new to old, they cut cabinet molding. Why would you paint old plaster walls without skim coating? When I asked him this, I got several different responses. First, it was the paint color and finish I picked out. Second, was because he didn’t quote it. Third, was the painter asked him what to do and he said to just paint it. Fourthly, he said he worked on some of the walls himself. I am not aware of the cabinet designer and owner coming to my home prior to the construction. I met the cabinet designer at their business location and once cabinets were selected, the owner came out to measure the kitchen. After cabinet installation, Dave, his brother, and the owner of the cabinet company met at my home to discuss the issues with the window and cabinet. The owner of the cabinet company took pictures to take back to the designer. During this meeting I also confirmed with [redacted] that the pantry would be patched before painted. He said they would take care of it. Now he is claiming it was not part of the quote for painting the entire kitchen and trying to add on additional monies. The patch work is terrible. Attached are images of some of the above mentioned items.Thank you for your help in this matter. Sincerely,[redacted]
Regards,
Angela [redacted]
[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of MediationIf you wish, you may update it before sending it.]Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] ,and find that Mediation is necessaryRegards, [redacted]
MsPettys-Roth, Thank you for your continuing efforts in resolving Case #***. I do not feel that the responses from Dangel Brothers Carpenter Contractors, Incanswer the complaints originally submittedI am sending copies of e:mails so you can follow the progression of the kitchen remodelThe e:mail dated Feb 4, shows that a second payment was provided, but I was still questioning their workmanship at that pointOn Feb 2, 2016, I texted *** *** that there were a lot of noticeable imperfections in their workmanshipI did not cancel the check because I thought as a reputable company they would fix the issuesI came to find out there were other hidden problems as I took their advice from e:mail dated Feb 18, “Please make a choice on how it get’s remedied, rely on friends or family for idea’s or help.” I filed my complaint after having their workmanship reviewed, meeting with them in mid- March and giving them an additional chance to fix thingsThe complaints about the new electric and new appliances not being installed to Electrical Code have nothing to do with the existing knob and tube wiring elsewhere in the house. The kitchen originally only had a stove and refrigeratorA new dishwasher and microwave were discussed upfront and provided for the remodelThere was no existing circuitry for the new appliancesThe contract states installation of new appliances, therefore new electric and circuitry would need to be provided for those new appliancesI still do not have an answer for why the new counter-top outlets do not have separate circuitry and are not ground fault protected (GFI)The Dangel Brothers suggested more electrical outlets closer to the counter-tops in correspondence dated Dec 22, I responded to proceed and that I did not remember CodeI am sending a copy of that e:mail and the National Electrical Code that indicates requirements for new appliances and counter-top outlets under separate cover. It wasn’t until *** *** met with me in March, to discuss their poor workmanship that he mentioned anything about the electrical panel being fullNot once was I informed that there was an issue with the electric or that they weren't going to follow Electrical Code when installing the new appliances or adding the suggested new countertop outlets. I still do not know why I was charged for seven (7) recessed lights when only six (6) were installedThey chipped the ceiling plaster when installing the five (5) recessed ceiling lightsThe ceiling was not chipped priorNow it needs to be repaired and repainted (images attached) During the above mentioned meeting, *** *** acknowledged the poor ceiling mud work and the trowel marks on the ceiling and walls, the chips around each recessed light, and how poorly the paint looked The original quote provides a price for painting the entire kitchenE:mails explained that if I kept the pantry monies would be deductedIt did not say that if I kept the pantry I would be charged additional monies for paintingThe pantry is part of the kitchen and the quote is for the entire kitchenAs I mentioned originally, I brought up patching the pantry walls before painting when the Dangel Brothers and the owner of the cabinet company came over to discuss the window issues in January, Nothing was mentioned about additional costs for painting the pantryI have enclosed images of the workmanship in the pantryYou can see that plaster patching is poorly done and the painter just painted over flaking paintAlso, They did not answer why they installed a scratched window sill, drilled a hole in the cabinet side panels (which was an extra cost that Dave said to deduct), the misalignment of the corner cabinet, the missing electrical front plate covers, exposed wiring and doorbell not being reinstalled I will be in-touch to make sure you receive the additional information via the US Postal Service Sincerely, *** *** Tell us why here
*** Please view the attached document & let's schedule a visit to the work site
[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of Mediation. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID .[redacted], , and find that Mediation is necessary. Regards,[redacted]
I feel that I’ve explained and represented myself and my company over this complaint in several fashions and explanations with solid information, which is actually taking away from clients that are paying their bills.The last bill presented to Ms. [redacted] was invoiced on 2-18-16, the complaint wasn’t presented till 6-6-16, can we all agree that is grossly overdue for payment. I know that Lynne has more info then she probably wanted to read through. There was no electrical or Cincinnati remolding permit applied for in Ms. [redacted]’s benefit. Due to the fact there would have been extreme expenses involved to get her knob & tube wiring up to new codes that would have made her rewire most of the building. The expense of permits & electrical changes would have exceeded her budget for the kitchen remodel. My contract doesn’t state any electrical circuits added, only recessed lighting added from the original lighting circuit. The contract states installation of appliances only. I did mention that both new unexpected circuits were on one breaker, due to the fact that there’s no more room in the panel. A tandem breaker was installed later to provide the two circuits being separate @ the cost of $375. in addition to the contract amount. It might appear at a glance that there’s more room in the panel. Ms. [redacted]’s original panel has the wrong panel cover installed, there’s no buss bar inside the panel to hold another breaker in it. Ms. [redacted] made the decision to keep the existing pantry, that was fine with me. She was never billed the $ 500. for it’s removal or the venting of the hood . My bills are very descriptive to support that. I was charged extra from the painter for the pantry wood shelving, door, casing & base board inside & out. Due to the fact the contract states pantry removal which required limited wall & ceiling paint. I invoiced Ms. [redacted] $ 665. for the pantry inside & outside painting that was supposed to be disposed of.There’ve been several comments on the plaster walls and ceiling. To put things in perspective, it’s a 75 plus year old two family house that has plaster style finish. There was originally poor lighting and dull paint. Providing three times the lighting & brighter wall paint reviled wall texture that was never viewed to Ms. [redacted] before. The original kitchen ceiling was out of level and that’s the transition described, in the ceiling continuation installed level. It’s a common issue with ceiling & floor joist that we have to fit crown mold in new and old buildings to fit. The drywall described was for the removal of the soffits, not to repair items in the whole room.In reference to any discussion/ meetings over the tight window/cabinet issues. Again I’m the installer and didn’t have full control over the cabinets that were selected and purchased by Ms. [redacted]. There were meetings over the window/cabinet/sill issues, along with several samples to improve the final outcome for Ms. [redacted]’s happiness. I’m exhausted thru this whole process as Ms. [redacted] couldn’t figure out her likes and dislikes.My clients turn into my friends as I do everything to apes there final product. It has been difficult to make that happen in this case as Ms. [redacted] thought there was more to the contract then quoted.A contract is created to inform the client what duties are provided for a certain amount of money. At the end of the day Ms. [redacted] did get a floor replaced, her dated steel cabinets and stainless top removed: new cabinets/appliances/tops/baseboards/ two new windows/lighting/two circuits/drywall/painting installed and finished as a functional kitchen space that she’s using.The billed invoices add to $7,887. The current received amount is $ 5,062. I’m feeling that the non-payment of $ 2,825. crevices as her discount/refund. We understand thru Ms. [redacted]’s aggressive actions that there’s no plan to continue with myself being her contractor. Any corroboration has been lost thru her actuations against my long term business. There’s not really a resolution desired, only a discount on her project. All work was completed months before the complaint. With aggravation- frustration to keep a client happy. Sorry for that! [redacted]
Thanks so much for the chance to respond to the complaint at hand.Please check my attachment with my response.I've also responded thru regular mail to this situation.Thanks [redacted]Dangel Bros Carpenter Contractors Attention [redacted]Revdex.comI’m only responding online...
to defend the complaint from Ms. [redacted] over the remodel of her kitchen. There’s several thoughts that come to mind over the project. We had a good relationship in our meetings and start of the project. I’m sending a lot of information through mail to give history about the project. A lot of the complaint is about electric which was an afterthought during the project & not in my contract, so of course it would be an additional expense. There is also complaint of the tight cabinet & window space that was due to the pantry that was in the contract to be removed, it was decided by the client and maybe regretted later after leaving the pantry that there was 10’ of space that appeared crowded. The client purchased the cabinetry and made all decisions about the design and space. It needs to be clear that the site is a 70 plus year old two family house. The 2nd floor kitchen is out of level/plumb/straightness, it has real plaster walls from that date which affects the project. Cornerstone Cabinets, designer and owner per my request visited the job site along with myself to help Ms. [redacted] with ideas for the cabinet & window trim/sill and tight space that wasn’t visualized at the time of the cabinets being ordered. I’ll prove that my relationship has been of care/concern to make my client happy, but it’s ironic that all complaints came after there was money due from my last invoice. To give Dangel Bros. creditability for their reputation and high caliber of people/ companies we’ve worked for in the past. All of our clients speak of our care/concern of their property, our integrity and craftsmanship. Those are clients like [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] all work at their residences. I’ve performed multiple projects for clients in the [redacted] golf club (West Chester). I’m a preferred remodel installer for [redacted] [redacted] window companies. I’ve installed cabinets & preferred installer for [redacted] & have also installed [redacted] [redacted] products. I have worked in both [redacted] [redacted] appliances showrooms. I’ve performed cabinet & inside trim for [redacted] Homes, [redacted] Builders & [redacted] Construction. Along with several store remodels at [redacted] Sporting Goods on 4th street downtown. I’ll of these should build integrity work ethic and background on our business. I wouldn’t have this type of client history if I didn’t perform the work printed on my contract. I’m clear with clients that if it doesn’t say I’m performing a particular task then it will be an additional expense. Maybe Ms. [redacted] assumed that I’d skim coat/fix all the dated kitchen walls, when the contract addressed the soffit removal/repairs. After having access to the property throughout the project, I wanted to return to satisfy some of her request. The key had been removed & reports about our company have been broadcasted. It seems like the client doesn’t want me to complete her items, maybe because of the past due invoice. To ask for a refund along with the invoice due seems ridiculous. I pride myself and my company on our hard work and craftsmanship and would like to be recognized after being in business for 26 plus years with a trail of repeat clients. ...⇄ Sincerely [redacted] ...⇄ Dangel Bros. Carpenter Contractors
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
In response to Case ID[redacted] I think any homeowner or commercial business that uses Dangel Brothers Carpenter Contractors would think that not following Building and Remodeling Codes are a big deal. Based on the Dangel Brothers’ response, it is clear that following Electrical Code is not important to them. There is nothing that excuses them from the responsibility of following Codes when providing services. The new appliances should have had their own circuit in the beginning. When the countertop outlets were added, isn’t the issue. When I made Dave aware of the electrical issues he told me he personally ran all the wires and ground fault protected the countertop outlets in the basement. After further questioning, he “remembered” the electrical panel was full and still needed to finish the job. The electrical panel was not full and there are still plenty of spaces for circuits to this day. His second attempt to correct the electric still did not correct the problems. The pantry is not an issue for me, contrary to what Dangel Brothers imply. The cabinet that is not aligned is on the other side of the sink and does not touch the cabinet that is next to the pantry. Our email conversations, stated that I would keep the pantry and he would deduct $500.00 off the invoice (of which I see no evidence). Due to my work schedule and lack of daylight in the winter months, I didn’t see some of these issues visible under natural light. Unfortunately, I had already paid them another portion of the invoice. Every recessed light that they installed has chips in the plaster around the lights. Their mud work is not smooth and visible changes in the ceilings and walls are visible. Instead of correcting the ceiling transition from new to old, they cut cabinet molding. Why would you paint old plaster walls without skim coating? When I asked him this, I got several different responses. First, it was the paint color and finish I picked out. Second, was because he didn’t quote it. Third, was the painter asked him what to do and he said to just paint it. Fourthly, he said he worked on some of the walls himself. I am not aware of the cabinet designer and owner coming to my home prior to the construction. I met the cabinet designer at their business location and once cabinets were selected, the owner came out to measure the kitchen. After cabinet installation, Dave, his brother, and the owner of the cabinet company met at my home to discuss the issues with the window and cabinet. The owner of the cabinet company took pictures to take back to the designer. During this meeting I also confirmed with [redacted] that the pantry would be patched before painted. He said they would take care of it. Now he is claiming it was not part of the quote for painting the entire kitchen and trying to add on additional monies. The patch work is terrible. Attached are images of some of the above mentioned items.Thank you for your help in this matter. Sincerely,[redacted]
Regards,
Angela [redacted]