Advanced Water Quality Systems, Inc.

Water system installed, that has caused damage to my home & eventually cause mold health issues. 5/7/2013 we had a [redacted] 10" BB pre-filter, Signature 935 Softner installed. Winter of XXXX-XXXX the discharge line froze which was installed through the garage out through the wall into the downspout. Company came out & ran a new line draining into the washer machine drain pipe which goes into my septic.I overheard the [redacted] technician tell someone on the phone, that it is not good or allowed to be drained into the septic or wanted to be held responible if the septic is damaged. I confronted him on what I heard & he said it would be fine until spring. Spring of 2014, after some phone calls the company finally came out and put a new permanent discharge hose running through the basement into the other downspout on the opposite side of the house. Since the garage was not heated this is why they claimed the hose froze. The new line is put in our newly finished basement which is heated. 2/3/2015 we started noticing a wet spot on the rug which kept getting bigger. We called [redacted] since it is where the new hose goes to the downspout where the hose exits the house. The technician said the line has froze & it may be cracked. Techician has istalled shut off valves & placed a new hose which is now discharging into my septic again. The problem we now have is the damage to our new rug, padding, & subfloor that was just installed 9/2014. Now we have to replace all of plus open up the new walls to see how much damage is behind the walls & installation. We need to find out where the leak in the hose is so we are unsure of how much wall has to be opened. As of right now the whole basement has a horrible smell & the likely hood of mold is very high which is a health hazard. We have called & was given no satisfication but they were nice enough to hand me a bill of $187.50. I believe they should have looked into all options before installing this water system. If they felt the hose freezing was going to be an issue they should have given us other options. I dont think I should have to pay this bill & they should be held responsible for the damaged caused to my home.Desired SettlementReplacement of the cost to replace wall, installation, sub floor, carpet & padding. Plus if there is a need to clean up to prevent mold that should be their responsiblity too. The service fee also needs to be waivered & it needs to be properly installed so this will not be an issue again.Business Response 3-10-15Re: Case ID: XXXXXX [redacted] Complaint We are in receipt of a Revdex.com complaint filed by [redacted] of [redacted]Although we feel badly about the issues that the [redacted]'s have had, we don't believe that Advanced Water did anything in error that would make us liable for any consequential damages incurred by the [redacted] Here is our perspective on the situation:Advanced Water installed a water softener at the [redacted] home on May 7, 2013. All water softeners need to discharge a solution of salt, hardness, iron and water. At the suggestion of the customer, we set the discharge line to drain into a downspout to the right of the garage. This downspout goes into the ground presumably into some type of perimeter drain. To access this downspout, the drain line was run thru the overhead of the garage.On 1/9/14, [redacted] called to have us resolve a small leak. We went out that day. The tech found the drain line to be frozen and redirected it into the septic. The back-pressure from the frozen line is what caused the leak. We told the [redacted]'s that this was temporary and that we'd need to come back in the spring to redirect to another location. [redacted] called the next day - 1/10/14 - telling us he wanted the drain line redirected into another downspout. We then went out and moved the drain line into another downspout that [redacted] directed us to. The tech did mention that this might cause a similar freeze issue as the initial location but the [redacted]'s felt that, given the line wasn't going thru the garage, it shouldn't be a problem.Advanced Water did not charge for either of these service calls to the [redacted]'s.On 2/4/15 [redacted] called again with a complaint of puddles of water in the basement. We went out that day to find the backwash line again frozen. Again, we redirected into the septic. We suspect, given the extremely cold weather in late January and early February that the water in the gutter must have frozen not giving the discharge water anywhere to go which it then backed up into the basement. Apparently since we installed the drain line in this downspout the [redacted] made some improvements to this area and the sheetrock apparently became soaked.Advanced Water has over 4000 installs here in Central Mass and northern CT. During this very, very cold period of the last few weeks we have had only a handful of calls about possible frozen backwash lines. Most of these are folks that have had systems for years and the right combination of extreme cold and snow blanket caused their lines to freeze. The type of softener we install does not work correctly when the backwash line is frozen so most folks call because of staining problems in their toilets and sinks - not because water is backing up. If the line is frozen then the unit can't backwash and the household water gets dirty. Given the [redacted] had water backing up suggests that the downspout is likely what froze preventing the discharge water from being able to drain. Either that or the drain line cracked because it was frozen allowing water to back up. We were planning to charge the [redacted]'s for this most recent call. They refused to pay at the time of service which is our usual practice. When [redacted] called on 2/5/15 to explain the issues with his damaged sheetrock, I told him that we would forgive the charge.In summary, per the "Terms and Conditions" of our contract with the customers, which [redacted] signed, it states that 'Advanced Water shall in no event be liable for any indirect, incidental, special or consequential damages or any economic loss or any property damage incurred by the customer from the use of the equipment..."This is not a situation of poor workmanship. Unfortunately, we have had extremely cold weather that randomly has frozen a few drain lines.Lastly, Advanced Water is very responsive to customer concerns and issues with equipment. Our track record and lack of complaints over the last 20 years of business substantiate this.We're sorry for the problem that the [redacted]'s have incurred but don't believe that we should be held responsible.Consumer Response (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)I am appalled & bewildered how a man can own his own business & blatantly lie in response to a complaint about work performed at a customers house. Where is his ethics? It really shows the character of the person we are dealing with. Lie #1: At the suggestion of the customer, we set the discharge line to drain into a downspout to the right of the garage. Can someone please tell me, the customer, why would I suggest to the owner of the business who came out to my house & did a walk through the home,garage,well room, & basement to explain to us how & where the water system would be installed & drained, would tell the professional contractor where to drain the system? Really? From my understanding after talking with other professionals in the field, the hose for draining should have been buried 3 feet below the ground to prevent freezing of the hose. To leave the hose exposed to the elements of winters here in New England seems to me a lazy & cheaper way out. I the customer entrusted Advanced Water to know what they are doing. We were told the hose froze because the garage wasn't heated, this was told to us by the tech who came out for the repair. The reason we weren't charged for the first service call was because the system was still under warranty.When the tech came out to fix the initial frozen line, he placed a new drain line in the septic, which the tech said is illegal to do in Massachusetts so it will have to be removed in the springtime. Which it was & the system was draining again through a new line going through our basement which is heated, into a downspout on the left of the house. If the tech actually buried the line we wouldn't be here at this injunction. But we did not know the line should be buried. They did, or should of for this is their business. They are suppose to be the experts, not us!Lie #2:The tech did mention that this might cause a similar issue as the initial location but the [redacted]'s felt that, given the line wasn't going through the garage, it shouldn't be a problem. Really? Really [redacted]? The tech never, ever mentioned that! If we were told that, we would of told them they need to find another way to avoid the hose freezing again. Again, burying the line would of taken care of this, which we know now from other people who have knowledge of such things. Lie #3: Sheetrock apparently became soaked. I never told [redacted] that the sheet rock became soaked. What he was told by me is the following..That we had water coming up through the sub floor & rug padding, & the rug itself, & that it was a lot of water. The wall wasn't damaged. However, I will need to open the wall to examine the hose since the tech it may have cracked & see if there is damage to it & behind the walls to see if there is damaged (installation). I will have to replace the rug, the rug padding, & the subfloor that is damaged, all of which was just installed this past late summer.Lie #4: They refused to pay at the time of service which is our usual practice. I wasn't home to give the payment & the tech never told my wife she needed to pay right then & there. He had her sign the paperwork & left her a copy & walked out. I told [redacted] on the phone that I felt we shouldn't be charged for their mistake. They should of installed it properly & they didn't. They are the experts, this is their line of work everyday, not mine. When I told him of the damage to the rug, th rug padding, & sub floor, he finally came around & said to me he will rescind the the payment of $186.00, but he feels he is not responsible for the damage to the house. However if the system was installed properly to begin with, buried underground, we wouldn't be having this issue. As far as the contract we signed I believe it should be null & void since they didn't install the drain hose correctly the first time, second time & the fact that it is still not correctly installed as it is draining into my septic once again & we have to wait to have it removed in the springtime again. Which he wanta to charge me for. You got to be kidding me!!! This drain line should be buried 3 feet below the ground to avoid it freezing. It should of been done this way from the beginning & there is no way I should be charged for their mistake. If the job was finished & installed completely & correctly the first time, again, we wouldn't be here. At his point I & my wife are so disgusted & we feel completely violated by such dirty & lazy work ethics & flawed characteristics that we aren't even comfortable with them touching our house anymore. The holes that were drilled through our walls into our downspouts were not even sealed up. The tech just yacked out the hose allowing the huge staples to fly everywhere (garage & driveway) which could have caused a flat tire. At this point they could come & remove the system from our home & refund us the complete cost of the system, which is paid for in full & we will take our business to a more reputable company that would install a water conditioning system correctly.The [redacted]'sFinal Business Response 4-1-15Re: Revdex.com Complaint #: XXXXXXFirst, my apologies for the delayed response. Multiple computer issues at our end.I have reviewed the homeowner response to our initial reply several times and I am amazed that it is considered acceptable to make such slanderous and uninformed comments with no expectation of reprisal. The fact is, since I have owned this business for over 5 years, this is the first and only Revdex.com complaint we've had. There's a reason for this - Advanced Water does good work and we've done good work for over 4000 customers in this coverage area over 20 years.The complaint here is a frozen backwash line and our purported failure to correctly install the discharge from the softener. As was stated in the prior response, water freezes. Salt water freezes - as indicated by the Boston Harbor being frozen this year.We are in complete agreement with the homeowner that the discharge should go underground. Perhaps the homeowner doesn't realize it, but that's exactly where we discharged in both situations. Maybe the homeowner isn't aware but his downspouts go into an underground perimeter drain system. This is the ideal location to drain a softener. Whether he acknowledges it or not, it was discussed with him prior to the install that the downspout next to his garage was an ideal spot because it feeds into an underground drain. Advanced Water has run many drain lines thru garages in the past which have not been a freeze problem. There was no reason for us to presume, during a May install, that this garage was susceptible to freezing. But it was. So to then redirect the drain line to another downspout that was accessible from inside the house, which also was connected to the underground drain, seems a very reasonable and logical move.The issue here is not that the discharge is going to the wrong place. It's going to an underground drainage system. The issue is the water needs to get there without freezing. No matter how big and how deep an outside drainage pit is, if the water can't get there without freezing, it's still a problem. Most reasonable people understand that water, even salt water, can freeze under the right conditions. This issue occurred in February of 2015 which saw 28 straight days of below freezing weather. Some of our and some of other water treatment dealers customers had freeze issues this past winter. It does happen. None of our other customers filed any complaints because 1) They understand that water exposed to the outside in extreme conditions can and will freeze and 2) We, like we did for this homeowner, responded quickly to minimize any secondary issues that might occur once we're aware of the issue.It's obvious that a reasoned discussion with this homeowner is not possible. He does not want us servicing him in the future and we feel likewise. He wants all of his money back. However, he's had use of this equipment, which there have been no functional issues with, for 20 months prior to this complaint. The warranty period for this unit is 5 years (60 months). Advanced Water is prepared to remove the system and refund the homeowner the remaining 66% of the full warranty value which is $1750.To restate - we are sorry for the issues the homeowner has had but do not believe that it is due to poor workmanship. Under normal circumstances, we would make every effort to permanently resolve this issue for the customer. It's obvious that they are not interested and so we offer this settlement as a way to remove ourselves from continued unsubstantiated, slanderous comments by this homeowner.