Andrews Mechanical, Inc.

UPDATE Revdex.com COMMENT: ALTHOUGH THIS COMPLAINT WAS CLOSED AS ANSWERED, THIS MATTER WAS LATER RESOLVED VIA THE DISTRICT COURT OF SPOKANE COUNTY WASHINGTON. ANDREWS MECHANICAL, INCNorth Madelia Unit (Shop & ship to address) East Wabash (Mailing address)Spokane,
Washington 99207Office (509) 489-3860Fax (509) 489-6140January 16, 2017To Revdex.com regarding the Complaint from *** *** ** *** ** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** *** *** ** *** ***On 10/20/we received a call from Mr*** that the boiler was not working and could we come and fix itWe went out, found the boiler not working and cleaned what we could in the combustion chamber due to the fact the boiler is sitting on the basement floorThis boiler should be set off the basement floor so you can remove the trap that is under the boiler and check the trap for cracksand debrisAs you can see in the pictures, the boiler is set on the groundAlso the way the piping is run it is almost impossible to service such a boiler due tothe fact all the piping is way to the front of the boiler; see service requirements on page and see page one for the front of the boiler of the O&M manualWhen a boiler is not installed to clearances for service access as the manual requires, this causes servicing time to go way upWith all the pipes in front of this boiler there is no place to stand and work on the front of the boilerThere are no unions so you can remove the boiler to work on it (this is also shown in the piping drawings to have unions on the boiler for removal from the system as shown on page of O&M manual)Also, this boiler install doesn't meet Washington State Boiler Code or Washington State electrical codeNo permit was taken out for the installation of the boiler per my phone call to Spokane County in the last week
On page of the boiler installation manual it calls out in bold print that Qualified and licensed person to install such a boiler and the installation must comply with all State, National, and local codes which it doesn'tIt also calls out on page in the maintenance section of the installation manual that this boiler is to be serviced yearly by Qualified Heating ContractorThe last time that our company had been there was in to fix the boiler, that was about years agoNote this is about years that we had been there last, to repair then service the boiler when the manual says every yearFor that work, it took months and two past due statements to get paid for which we did not charge for interest for being late.On 10/20/the boiler was not working again and we replaced swirl plate and combustion blowerThen the tech completed a combustion testing and found the unit to be in specNote all this time there was a working CO monitor that was in the houseThe CO monitor was working while these repairs were done and our tech had done combustion test after the repair was done and no CO alarm had gone off during this timeThen the next day at 5:in the morning I got a call from *** that his CO detector had went off and the fire department came out and shut the boiler down*** said we had not installed the fan properly (see the word for word message that was left on our voice mail)I called *** back and told him we would send the tech back to see what was wrong first thing in the morning What we found out was that the venting was now leaking and the boiler now had high COThis was not the case when the tech had left the day beforeWhat took so long was getting the high CO under control in the boiler as it was firing and the condition of the service accessEach time you make an adjustment the combustion analyzer would go high CO and had to clear out of the high CO in the combustion analyzer before another test can be done, this takes a lot of timeIf you don't give the combustion analyzer time to clear out you would have to wait until next day before you could start testing again with the combustion analyzerNote this analyzer cost about $and is sent to the factory each year for calibration.When all was said and done in order to get the boiler in spec we had to lower the high firing down from 140,Btu's down to 97,Stu'sThis is a large drop in output but at this point the boiler CO was in Spec on high fireThis kind of drop does take time to doThe heat loss of the house does not require 140,Btu's so we thought this to be fineI also called the factory HTP about this and they too at HTP said this was ok for this old of boilerWe could have spent at least another day and put in a new gas valve with complete removal, dismantle and reinstall of boiler to remove the trap under the boiler and clean the trap out or replace the trap but the boiler was putting out enough heat to heat the house
The tech and I don't know what happened that night, which I told *** He took it that I had said he had done something to the boiler, which I never said to himI did tell him that something did happen during the night to cause this problem, which it did after our tech had left on 10/20/The first day the tech didn't do a print out of the combustion report but the second day he did and I believe it was left at the house for *** This report is called a number one sheet; its color is yellowI do have the combustion sheet from the machine with time stamp on them which is written on our number one sheet that is left at the houseMany times we don't take a print out on small house boilers because most people would not understand what is meant by the numbers on the sheetThere is no requirement for our company to leave such a test report out there; in fact many analyzers don't even have a way to print a report out, ours doTo me the important part is what the analyzer is telling the tech and what he does with the inputTo this day, suppliers still sell Fyrite Classic combustion test kit (see print out), this test was done by hand to get the readings with no electronics at all.*** wants me reduce the price when I am thinking the tech just went out and worked on ***'s boiler to get it back in spec which I think we did a good job just getting to be useable again*** wants it done for lessThis Boiler is not installed to code or inspected to begin with and not serviced yearly from what we can tellWe never installed this boiler, we were only called when something brokeI feel bad this happen to *** but we are not to blame for what happen.Things do break and when that blower that has an RPM of lets go things inside the combustion chamber can happen ( see sheet Munchkin Boiler fan speeds from O&M manual)But we can only fix what we can see and test what is wrong at the time when we are thereI feel we did the work we were asked to do, the first day plus the second day to fix a different problemI billed *** for thisSee the enclosed invoices #*** for $1,and #*** for $ both invoices are dated 11/8/16; our records indicate no payment has been receivedIf he doesn't pay I said I would take the matter to Small Claims Court.Please see pictures of the installation of ***'s boiler and his phone call record also pages from the boiler O&M Manual

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***,and find that arbitration is necessary

On 10/30/17, our technician went to *** ***’s house because *** said her furnace was not workingOur technician found and replaced a bad hot surface ignitorHe also re-attached the return duct air that he found detachedHe checked the safeties, the CO reading and the input, all were ok
He cycled the furnace at the t-stat several times, the furnace was operational at that timeThis took hours including travel time On 11/1/17, *** *** called and said she was out of town and when she came back, her furnace was not working again and asked if she would be charged againShe was told we can’t guarantee there wouldn’t be additional charges because the unit was working when we left on 10/30/She was also told that if there was something we missed the first time, she would not be charged, but if there was something else wrong, like a bad board or any other parts needed, we would have to charge for parts and labor and we would not charge her for the travel time for the second trip and we wouldn’t know until we got there*** *** said, “Don’t bother” and hung up We provided a service, *** was told of our rates, by phone, before we scheduled the appointmentWe cannot foresee all future intermittent problems that may occur, especially when her furnace was working when our technician leftSee the attached #Workplace Checklist for the work done We offered to come back, and *** *** refusedShe did not have to hire another company, she chose to do so, which I’m sure she had to pay because most companies do not work for free

Subject: Re: Rebutall to *** letter Id ***We will not be going to the Revdex.com arbitration and this will be address this in court.Here is why I know how the process works in court, not sure about the Revdex.com and Revdex.com rules.Also our contracts are set up for court and not the Revdex.com for all the extra cost that are going to be involved in getting payment for the extra time that is required and personnel hours and involved costs We are rejecting Revdex.com arbitration

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
I had indeed gone out of town, but I'd noticed it wasn't working again the day of the service. Tried turning it off and on hoping it just needed to be restarted but had to leave and didn't have time to wait and see. But when I returned it was not on. What I was told by the other tech I hired was because of the age of my furnace the new ignitors won't sense the flame and will shirt cycle constantly and will turn off. And that an experienced tech should know that. It took this tech all of two minutes to realize this, just by looking at it. He fixed it properly and now my furnace is working like it should. 
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Review: We called Anrews Mechanical to indicate that our AC needed Freon. We were told it wold be $93 per hour from the minute the service man left the office to the minute he got back. He got here and spent 45 minutes checking the furnace and then told us we needed freon. That is what we told him to begin with so we have now wasted $70. He then spent about a hour fiddling with his freon to try and get it out of the bottle. He first asked for power so that he could thaw it, and then after this did not work he asked for hot water to put in a bucket to thaw it. Now we are at $163 of wasted time. I cannot believe anyopne would try to pass on the cost of not having functioning equipment for the service call onto the customer!The AC does not work still. Our bill came to $266.64 for a service that rendered us right where we were to begin with. If we call the company back I am scared that we will get the same service, and with no guarantee for the service we could keep spending money and keep being dissatisfied. I will not use a company that does not quarantee their work!Desired Settlement: I am willing to pay the bill minus the wasted time. I figure one hour of work and the cost of the freon plus tax. This comes to $116. Please realize that I am willing to pay even though I do not have a properly functioning AC. I figure that is reasonable since some time was spent at my house. Just not successful time. I have sinced scheduled an appointment with another company that does quarantee their work!

Business

Response:

Our Customers are notified of our rates when they call in for our services, when we arrive at their door (before we start work) and when we are done. This is all stated on our Work Orders which are signed by our customers. If we find a major problem that will cost the customer much more than expected, we inform them and get their approval before we continue working. As Mrs. Dennis stated in her complaint, she was told our rates are $93.00 per hour from shop to shop plus parts and plus tax. It took 25 minutes to drive to her home from our shop and 20 minutes back to our shop. Our technician was at her residence for 1 hour and 45 minutes. When our technician arrived, he was told by the customer that their air conditioner just needs some Freon. Our company does not do work based solely on what the customer thinks is wrong with their equipment. We examine the whole system for proper diagnosis. This was explained to the customer. Our technician first checked the air filter and blower for cleanliness. The ductwork was opened to inspect the indoor coil for cleanliness. If any of those were dirty, the system would not operate correctly and a proper, professional, diagnosis would not be possible. Air conditioning needs proper air flow to properly measure refrigerant and refrigerant temperature. If there’s anything in the system that is dirty, it could mislead the technician into other problems which could cost the customer more money than was necessary. The initial 45 minutes checking the system for cleanliness is not wasted time on a system we have never serviced, but is insurance that up to that point, the entire A/C system was in proper working order. Then an accurate diagnosis of the problem is possible. As for not having functioning equipment, that is incorrect. Refrigerants react to temperatures to create pressure. We use heat to raise the refrigerant bottle temperature to raise the pressure higher than the system pressure to force refrigerant into the system to get a proper charge. Our bottle was almost at the same pressure, so our technician first used an electric band which helped but was taking longer than he would like so he asked the owner if he could use hot water in a bucket to put the refrigerant bottle in, to speed up the process. This was done to speed up the charge time and save the customer money instead of letting the refrigerant seep in at a slow rate. Our technician checked for leaks and found one at the outside service valve and at the connection at the indoor coil and fixed them both. At that time he couldn’t detect any other leaks. The customer’s system was working when our technician was done and the customers even mentioned that it was nice and cool in their house. We do guarantee our work but we were never contacted that their system was still not working after our technician left so we can only assume their system is still working properly. We feel we have billed this customer fairly.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID 9632625, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I had a different company out today to look at my air conditioner , because as I said in my orginal complaint, I did not have a guarantee for Andrews Electrical and did not want to throw good money after bad trying to resolve this issue since their business to door fee structure would have me invest another $63 before any resolution could happen. Andrews indicates in their reponse that they do guarantee their work, but I have checked the work order/contract as well as the bill and do not see any such written guarantee.

Here are the facts as I see them today:

1. Both the response and the work order indicates that the technician checked the blower for cleanliness. The blower today ( 3 weeks later) was covered in dust and dead bugs. I find it very suspect that it was checked.

2. The work order indicates that the liquid connection to the furnace was tightened. This would have been impossible. We have a 4 shelve green house with lights set up blocking access to this connection. This entire shevling unit would have had to be removed from the furnace room in order for this fitting to be tightened. There was no requst made to move the unit, so how was this connection tightened?

3. Today there is no refrigerant in the system. Since the technician checked for leaks, it does not appear he did a very through job. Did he check for leaks properly?

4. On the work order he indicates that he checked the low pressure saftey valve. As I understand this, if the unit is out of refrigerant, the system will turn off if this valve is working properly. Today, there was no (zero) refrigerant, the lines did not have condensation on them and cold air was blowing from the top of the unit that should have been hot air. I am now concerned that we have ruined our air conditioner by running it for the last three weeks when the safety that was supposedly checked should have turned it off.

It appears that the only cooling that has been happening in our house is the pulling of the cool air from the basement. That might have been what we were experiencing that day for all I know or it could have been cooling from the refrigerant that was fast leaking out. I originally was willing to pay over half the bill because I felt that a good faith effort had been made to provide service to me. Now based on statements made by Andrews Electric that differ from validation today, I am disputing the entire bill. I prefer to invest my money into fixing my air conditioner.

Business

Response:

Response to #1: Our technician did not clean the blower area; he checked for cleanliness and found the blower area was clean enough for proper air flow to happen. Our technician did a minimal check to make sure the blower had the proper air flow. If our technician would have taken the time to clean the blower area, it would have cost the customer even more than what was charged. Response to #2: Our technician did not need to move the shelving unit to tighten the liquid connection. It wasn’t easy, but he was able to wiggle in enough with a couple of wrenches to tighten the nut. Response to #3: The two leaks that were found were fixed and no other leaks were found at that time. The only way to check further would be to remove all of the refrigerant and pressure check the system. This could mean tearing the whole system down and checking piece by piece before we could fix any other possible leaks that may not exist. We don’t do this on the first trip to a customer’s home because of the time and cost it would take to do this. Most of the time, when we find one or two leaks that is the problem, it doesn’t warrant pulling the whole system down and pressure check for more leaks that may not even be there. When a pressure check is needed, the system first needs to be pressure tested, then repairs done to fix the leak, then re-pressurized the system until it holds pressure, then has to be pulled down to deep vacuum to remove all of the contaminates and then re-charged. Normally, simple leaks do not require this much work and we do not like to charge our customers any more than we have to when it’s not needed. Response to #4: It’s possible the safety pressure switch did break after we were there, but it worked when we were there because the system wouldn’t work when it was low on refrigerant. We have attached our #2 checklist, which the customer has the yellow copy. If you look at where it says “SA DB TEMP / ? T”. It was at 17° ? T (delta tee) across the indoor coil, so it was cooling. And if you look at “LIQ LINE PRES”, it had a pressure of 325psi and (just above on the checklist) 145psi on the suction side out the compressor and 13° sub-cooling and the compressor was working. If the unit was pulling the cool air from the basement, it wouldn’t have had a reading of 17° ? T (delta tee) across the indoor coil. From what I can tell, they most likely have another leak in their system that needs to be addressed which would take more time and more labor which they would be charged. It is possible to take all day on some leaks to find and fix them, sometimes even longer depending on where the leak is. In Summary: 1) We found their system to have proper air flow which is the first thing required in charging a unit. 2) We found two leaks and fixed them. 3) We don’t own the equipment, the customers do and it is their problem that we are trying to fix. 4) We didn’t install the equipment. 5) We did the reasonable job when finding the two leaks and fixing them. We did not find any other leaks and the system appeared to be OK. 6) I can’t help that the owner didn’t call us back when there was another problem. 7) We do warranty our work but, in this case, the only thing we installed was 2lbs of R410 Refrigerant. 8) If there is another leak, we would charge the owner to find such leak and fix it. 9) If the owner would have called us to let us know they were having additional problems, we would not have charged for the additional travel time to and from the job to find other leaks and we would have credited them for the 2lbs of refrigerant we put in. 10) We do good, cost effective work. 11) Wouldn’t you think that the owner would at least call or email us to let us know they were still having problems and to find out what we warranty?