We began our relationship with this customer on Jan 16, 2017 when she purchased our product through a program being offered by another company. In less than a week, she notified us that she was not happy with the other company, wanted to eliminate their involvement and become a direct customer...
of ours. We finalized this process on Feb. 1, 2017 and requested some of the monies paid by the customer to the other company be transferred to us to offset set-up fees and pay-per-click marketing on her account.This relationship continued until Sep. 8, 2017 when we received notice that the customer wanted to cancel her agreement with us. Per the agreement signed by the customer on Feb. 1, 2017, all cancellations require a 90-day notice and any payments to us for use of the system are non-refundable. Having this in mind, one of our representatives reached out to her to find out why she was cancelling and to put together a plan to alleviate any concerns she had and to keep her as a customer after the 90-day cancellation period had ended. On Sep. 14 we agreed to reduce her obligation during the 90-day cancellation period from $997/month to $597/month and issue a marketing credit of $200/month during this time. This reduced her contractually obligated amount due to us by $1,200 in addition to the $600 total we would spend on marketing during her cancellation period. The agreement entered into on Sep. 14 stated that the customer had the right to opt-out of any continued relationship with us after the 90-days if we failed to fulfill any of the expectations set out in the agreement. On Nov. 16, 2017, the customer again cancelled her account and the final payment agreed to by her during her 90-day cancellation period was charged on Nov. 17, 2017. There are numerous notes on her account both prior to, and after cancellation, by our customer service representatives stating that she had either missed, or rescheduled multiple training calls, which obviously made our job more difficult.We take this, and any customer complaint, very seriously and go above and beyond to delight every customer we have. We do feel however, that in this customers case, we have gone above and beyond and despite repeated efforts to satisfy her, ultimately have failed. However, given the financial concessions ($1,800) made by us during her cancellation period, we are unable to offer any additional refunds.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2015/09/23) */
In response to Revdex.com Case#:
Mr. [redacted], we are so sorry and disheartened you felt in any way misinformed or mistreated. Our company only exists to help real estate agents succeed and we are only successful if we accomplish that goal....
In addition, we are only a profitable company if our clients stay on our system for a long duration of time due to our company model of software as a service.
We do our absolute best to be completely transparent regarding the two platforms that we offer and the charges associated with them.
We go over the charges on our webinar.
We have the charges on the sign up page.
Although it is not needed and redundant; we also go over the charges in a written agreement in which each page is required to be initialed and signed by the client.
We do this because we know real estate agents are busy, may not have watched the webinar, might not have read the terms and conditions upon sign up and we want to be sure that anyone and everyone who deals with us feels that we are not only fair and transparent but also knows exactly what they are signing up for.
When using our system effectively and generating a healthy return on investment from our services, we know that most agents would not want to practice real estate from that point on without us.
So again, when we see a situation where we were not able to get a client to that point of predictability and profitability prior to parting ways with us we feel we have failed.
In this specific situation, Mr. [redacted] was clearly explained the two different platforms and prices we offer; 1st being a sole practitioner license and 2nd being a team license, he then accepted the terms, and signed and initialed each page of the license agreement. It should also be noted that marketing being in addition to the platform is the industry standard.
Mr. [redacted] subsequently chose the team platform due to him having a partner. After an in depth conversation with our consultant, Mr. [redacted] explained that his goals in utilizing our service were to grow a team larger than just him and his partner.
During the launch process of our product, when going over the goals and marketing budget needed, Mr. [redacted] indicated he was under the impression that marketing came with the license fee.
This was of course escalated and the question to Mr. [redacted] was "how much of the license fee did you believe was to be placed toward your marketing budget"
Often times the marketing budget exceeds the license fee by double or triple our license fee depending on the agent and their specific goals although the marketing budget is entirely voluntary and discretionary. Unlike many companies in our space, we do not take a percentage of the clients marketing budget so that the client receives a better product and there is no ulterior motive in our budget suggestion -in other words it's all about the client.
Mr. [redacted]'s response to the question "how much of the license fee did you believe was to be placed toward your marketing budget" was that he was under the impression $500.00 would be used toward the marketing budget.
We told him that everyone is human and since our goal is to have clients for life, we would oblige him and give him that credit as a courtesy.
He said at this point he was unhappy and did not want what he assumed he was getting (although contrary to what was in writing) and that he did not want the credit but instead would like to just walk away from us and the product.
We informed him that due to the heavy costs of building a system like this we have a 90 day notice required to cancel but that we wanted to do all we could to keep him happy and if that's what he wanted than we would allow it with no notice.
This was still not satisfactory to Mr. [redacted]. He then demanded a refund of his payment.
Due to the system being already completed and in consideration of the other multiple attempts and credits offered to resolve Mr. [redacted]'s requests we could not comply with this last request.
We had already offered to give him exactly what he said he wanted as well as waived any cancellation notice per his request.
We know that in real estate without a solid system of lead generation and predictability in closing ratio's, the nature of real estate closings and income can have wild income swings.
In dealing with hundreds of real estate agents across the country, we have found that if they are having a down month and not yet hit mathematical predictability in their business through lack of having a system like ours or not having been on our system long enough to get their numbers steady, they sometimes panic at investing into their businesses and try to make wild accusations and claims in order to request credits, refunds, etc.
Since we have been in all areas and income levels in the real estate business we attempt to deal with these touchy situations with dignity and grace. We love real estate and being in the business ourselves understand these tight situations, often taking the highest ground we can and offering the maximum credits we can, never pointing out what an educated guess may reveal is happening.
We would gladly give Mr. [redacted] a credit for our system as we had initially offered anytime now or within the next 12 months from the date of this response based on availability in his area since his system is already built and ready to go.
Unbeknownst to most clients, upon signing up for our service the account is broken into several different departments to provide a final and finished product in a timely manner. Which means multiple people within the organization had done the work and gotten paid more than Mr. [redacted]'s initial setup fee had covered. We both lost in not being able to retain Mr. [redacted] as a client and upon our last conversation were under the impression from Mr. [redacted] that the resolve was mutually satisfactory.
Again I would like to reiterate that there is a tremendous amount of work done on each individual account by each individual department within our organization in order to facilitate the perfect platform for our members business.
Below is the exact paragraph from the 1st page in bold on the user license agreement that was agreed to multiple times by Mr. [redacted]. We hope the offer of a standing credit with us is a satisfactory resolve and wish him all the best in his business.
Section 5, paragraph 3 AD WORDS. Licensee shall determine, based on Licensor's input, the monthly ad words budget (the "Ad Words Budget"). The Ad Words Budget will be billed up front in advance by MoneyTreeLeadSystems.com along as part of the Advertising Spend in addition to the License Fee. The amount of the Ad Words Budget will be paid to Google directly and is non-refundable.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/11/08) */
[redacted] signed up for our services on July 27, 2016, and was a client for one month. [redacted] wanted his broker, [redacted] to take over the account, which she did on August 31, 2016 when she signed her user license agreement, which effectively removed...
[redacted]'s obligation to pay any additional fees and contractually obligated [redacted] to take over financial responsibility for the account. We allowed [redacted] to take over [redacted]'s account and removed the 90 day notice of cancellation as contractually required by our mutually signed user license agreement.
[redacted] called in for a refund during the transition from [redacted]'s platform to [redacted] as [redacted] informed us he had been charged as well as [redacted]. We refunded two month's of system fees on August 17, 2016 in the amount of $[redacted] each. [redacted] called back in indicating that he was still being charged so our bookkeeper refunded an additional two month's of system fees in the amount of $[redacted] each. In total, [redacted] paid in $[redacted] and was refunded $[redacted] of this amount with the remainder reflecting the initial set-up fee and first month's system fee.
We charged [redacted] $[redacted] on August 31, 2016 for her initial set-up fee and began her promotional billing of $[redacted] on September 21, 2016 and again on October 21, 2016.
Converting an existing system from an agent to a broker is unorthodox, time-consuming and not something we do on a regular basis. During this transition, the site still showed [redacted] as the lead agent/broker for a period of time as we removed/added photos, logos and additional staff. The system was functional during this time, however, until all the changes were made, [redacted] was the only person who could actually use the system. There was a slight delay in converting the site as we did not start receiving the necessary information until late September through the end of October. However, several times during this period, [redacted] and her team expressed their appreciation of the hard work and the site once it was fully converted.
[redacted] subsequently left [redacted]' team and [redacted] began requesting refunds of the fees she had paid. When we informed her we were unable to fulfill any additional refunds, [redacted] began voicing her frustration as she only agreed to sign up with this "to help [redacted]" and had never needed a system such as ours before. We were recently informed that [redacted] notified [redacted] that he was now responsible for the fees she had paid us. [redacted] has called and emailed asking for a "full refund" of all monies paid by [redacted].
We are unable to initiate any further refunds to [redacted] or [redacted] on this account. [redacted] is no longer a client and hasn't been since August 31. The user license fee signed by [redacted] on August 31 states clearly that the system fee is non-refundable, each page is initialled and signed as was [redacted]'s and the system has been fully converted.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2016/11/08) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I never received 4 refunds. I am requesting documentation proving this. Also I am being billed by [redacted] not because she was helping me out as it lists in the team agreement she provides this for her realtors. There was no functional platform provided for marketing to [redacted] and her team as the development team did not fulfill their duties to provide a system that market's [redacted]'s team. [redacted] asked for a refund for the team platform because services were never provided as stated in the agreement she signed. We left the team because she could not provide a platform for her team.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2016/11/09) */
[redacted], you are no longer our customer and have not been since August 31. Please stop trying to bully us into giving a refund to your former broker. The charges you are requesting to be refunded were not billed to or collected from you.
If you are being billed by your former broker, that is between you and her, not us. Your argument of not providing a functional platform is moot due to the fact that the platform built for you was functional and you encouraged her to take it over. To quote from your original complaint: "I got her into this nightmare and now I am going to do everything I possibly can to get her out." Further, your argument for leaving your broker because she could not provide a platform is incorrect as she stated to us more than once that she had never used a platform like this before and didn't need to. As stated in our original response, and a direct quote from her, she only took this on to help you out.
We are sorry this situation is causing you stress in your relationship with your former broker. Again, we have no control over agreements or billing arrangements between you and her and are not the one's to make this right for you. You are not our client, we can give no further refunds. Attached is a copy of your billing which clearly shows your refunds and one month paid of service to us along with the set-up fee.
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 12, 2016/11/13) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
False information stated
We began our relationship with this customer on Jan 16, 2017 when she purchased our product through a program being offered by another company. In less than a week, she notified us that she was not happy with the other company, wanted to eliminate their involvement and become a direct customer...
of ours. We finalized this process on Feb. 1, 2017 and requested some of the monies paid by the customer to the other company be transferred to us to offset set-up fees and pay-per-click marketing on her account.This relationship continued until Sep. 8, 2017 when we received notice that the customer wanted to cancel her agreement with us. Per the agreement signed by the customer on Feb. 1, 2017, all cancellations require a 90-day notice and any payments to us for use of the system are non-refundable. Having this in mind, one of our representatives reached out to her to find out why she was cancelling and to put together a plan to alleviate any concerns she had and to keep her as a customer after the 90-day cancellation period had ended. On Sep. 14 we agreed to reduce her obligation during the 90-day cancellation period from $997/month to $597/month and issue a marketing credit of $200/month during this time. This reduced her contractually obligated amount due to us by $1,200 in addition to the $600 total we would spend on marketing during her cancellation period. The agreement entered into on Sep. 14 stated that the customer had the right to opt-out of any continued relationship with us after the 90-days if we failed to fulfill any of the expectations set out in the agreement. On Nov. 16, 2017, the customer again cancelled her account and the final payment agreed to by her during her 90-day cancellation period was charged on Nov. 17, 2017. There are numerous notes on her account both prior to, and after cancellation, by our customer service representatives stating that she had either missed, or rescheduled multiple training calls, which obviously made our job more difficult.We take this, and any customer complaint, very seriously and go above and beyond to delight every customer we have. We do feel however, that in this customers case, we have gone above and beyond and despite repeated efforts to satisfy her, ultimately have failed. However, given the financial concessions ($1,800) made by us during her cancellation period, we are unable to offer any additional refunds.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2015/09/23) */
In response to Revdex.com Case#:
Mr. [redacted], we are so sorry and disheartened you felt in any way misinformed or mistreated. Our company only exists to help real estate agents succeed and we are only successful if we accomplish that goal....
In addition, we are only a profitable company if our clients stay on our system for a long duration of time due to our company model of software as a service.
We do our absolute best to be completely transparent regarding the two platforms that we offer and the charges associated with them.
We go over the charges on our webinar.
We have the charges on the sign up page.
Although it is not needed and redundant; we also go over the charges in a written agreement in which each page is required to be initialed and signed by the client.
We do this because we know real estate agents are busy, may not have watched the webinar, might not have read the terms and conditions upon sign up and we want to be sure that anyone and everyone who deals with us feels that we are not only fair and transparent but also knows exactly what they are signing up for.
When using our system effectively and generating a healthy return on investment from our services, we know that most agents would not want to practice real estate from that point on without us.
So again, when we see a situation where we were not able to get a client to that point of predictability and profitability prior to parting ways with us we feel we have failed.
In this specific situation, Mr. [redacted] was clearly explained the two different platforms and prices we offer; 1st being a sole practitioner license and 2nd being a team license, he then accepted the terms, and signed and initialed each page of the license agreement. It should also be noted that marketing being in addition to the platform is the industry standard.
Mr. [redacted] subsequently chose the team platform due to him having a partner. After an in depth conversation with our consultant, Mr. [redacted] explained that his goals in utilizing our service were to grow a team larger than just him and his partner.
During the launch process of our product, when going over the goals and marketing budget needed, Mr. [redacted] indicated he was under the impression that marketing came with the license fee.
This was of course escalated and the question to Mr. [redacted] was "how much of the license fee did you believe was to be placed toward your marketing budget"
Often times the marketing budget exceeds the license fee by double or triple our license fee depending on the agent and their specific goals although the marketing budget is entirely voluntary and discretionary. Unlike many companies in our space, we do not take a percentage of the clients marketing budget so that the client receives a better product and there is no ulterior motive in our budget suggestion -in other words it's all about the client.
Mr. [redacted]'s response to the question "how much of the license fee did you believe was to be placed toward your marketing budget" was that he was under the impression $500.00 would be used toward the marketing budget.
We told him that everyone is human and since our goal is to have clients for life, we would oblige him and give him that credit as a courtesy.
He said at this point he was unhappy and did not want what he assumed he was getting (although contrary to what was in writing) and that he did not want the credit but instead would like to just walk away from us and the product.
We informed him that due to the heavy costs of building a system like this we have a 90 day notice required to cancel but that we wanted to do all we could to keep him happy and if that's what he wanted than we would allow it with no notice.
This was still not satisfactory to Mr. [redacted]. He then demanded a refund of his payment.
Due to the system being already completed and in consideration of the other multiple attempts and credits offered to resolve Mr. [redacted]'s requests we could not comply with this last request.
We had already offered to give him exactly what he said he wanted as well as waived any cancellation notice per his request.
We know that in real estate without a solid system of lead generation and predictability in closing ratio's, the nature of real estate closings and income can have wild income swings.
In dealing with hundreds of real estate agents across the country, we have found that if they are having a down month and not yet hit mathematical predictability in their business through lack of having a system like ours or not having been on our system long enough to get their numbers steady, they sometimes panic at investing into their businesses and try to make wild accusations and claims in order to request credits, refunds, etc.
Since we have been in all areas and income levels in the real estate business we attempt to deal with these touchy situations with dignity and grace. We love real estate and being in the business ourselves understand these tight situations, often taking the highest ground we can and offering the maximum credits we can, never pointing out what an educated guess may reveal is happening.
We would gladly give Mr. [redacted] a credit for our system as we had initially offered anytime now or within the next 12 months from the date of this response based on availability in his area since his system is already built and ready to go.
Unbeknownst to most clients, upon signing up for our service the account is broken into several different departments to provide a final and finished product in a timely manner. Which means multiple people within the organization had done the work and gotten paid more than Mr. [redacted]'s initial setup fee had covered. We both lost in not being able to retain Mr. [redacted] as a client and upon our last conversation were under the impression from Mr. [redacted] that the resolve was mutually satisfactory.
Again I would like to reiterate that there is a tremendous amount of work done on each individual account by each individual department within our organization in order to facilitate the perfect platform for our members business.
Below is the exact paragraph from the 1st page in bold on the user license agreement that was agreed to multiple times by Mr. [redacted]. We hope the offer of a standing credit with us is a satisfactory resolve and wish him all the best in his business.
Section 5, paragraph 3 AD WORDS. Licensee shall determine, based on Licensor's input, the monthly ad words budget (the "Ad Words Budget"). The Ad Words Budget will be billed up front in advance by MoneyTreeLeadSystems.com along as part of the Advertising Spend in addition to the License Fee. The amount of the Ad Words Budget will be paid to Google directly and is non-refundable.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/11/08) */
[redacted] signed up for our services on July 27, 2016, and was a client for one month. [redacted] wanted his broker, [redacted] to take over the account, which she did on August 31, 2016 when she signed her user license agreement, which effectively removed...
[redacted]'s obligation to pay any additional fees and contractually obligated [redacted] to take over financial responsibility for the account. We allowed [redacted] to take over [redacted]'s account and removed the 90 day notice of cancellation as contractually required by our mutually signed user license agreement.
[redacted] called in for a refund during the transition from [redacted]'s platform to [redacted] as [redacted] informed us he had been charged as well as [redacted]. We refunded two month's of system fees on August 17, 2016 in the amount of $[redacted] each. [redacted] called back in indicating that he was still being charged so our bookkeeper refunded an additional two month's of system fees in the amount of $[redacted] each. In total, [redacted] paid in $[redacted] and was refunded $[redacted] of this amount with the remainder reflecting the initial set-up fee and first month's system fee.
We charged [redacted] $[redacted] on August 31, 2016 for her initial set-up fee and began her promotional billing of $[redacted] on September 21, 2016 and again on October 21, 2016.
Converting an existing system from an agent to a broker is unorthodox, time-consuming and not something we do on a regular basis. During this transition, the site still showed [redacted] as the lead agent/broker for a period of time as we removed/added photos, logos and additional staff. The system was functional during this time, however, until all the changes were made, [redacted] was the only person who could actually use the system. There was a slight delay in converting the site as we did not start receiving the necessary information until late September through the end of October. However, several times during this period, [redacted] and her team expressed their appreciation of the hard work and the site once it was fully converted.
[redacted] subsequently left [redacted]' team and [redacted] began requesting refunds of the fees she had paid. When we informed her we were unable to fulfill any additional refunds, [redacted] began voicing her frustration as she only agreed to sign up with this "to help [redacted]" and had never needed a system such as ours before. We were recently informed that [redacted] notified [redacted] that he was now responsible for the fees she had paid us. [redacted] has called and emailed asking for a "full refund" of all monies paid by [redacted].
We are unable to initiate any further refunds to [redacted] or [redacted] on this account. [redacted] is no longer a client and hasn't been since August 31. The user license fee signed by [redacted] on August 31 states clearly that the system fee is non-refundable, each page is initialled and signed as was [redacted]'s and the system has been fully converted.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2016/11/08) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I never received 4 refunds. I am requesting documentation proving this. Also I am being billed by [redacted] not because she was helping me out as it lists in the team agreement she provides this for her realtors. There was no functional platform provided for marketing to [redacted] and her team as the development team did not fulfill their duties to provide a system that market's [redacted]'s team. [redacted] asked for a refund for the team platform because services were never provided as stated in the agreement she signed. We left the team because she could not provide a platform for her team.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2016/11/09) */
[redacted], you are no longer our customer and have not been since August 31. Please stop trying to bully us into giving a refund to your former broker. The charges you are requesting to be refunded were not billed to or collected from you.
If you are being billed by your former broker, that is between you and her, not us. Your argument of not providing a functional platform is moot due to the fact that the platform built for you was functional and you encouraged her to take it over. To quote from your original complaint: "I got her into this nightmare and now I am going to do everything I possibly can to get her out." Further, your argument for leaving your broker because she could not provide a platform is incorrect as she stated to us more than once that she had never used a platform like this before and didn't need to. As stated in our original response, and a direct quote from her, she only took this on to help you out.
We are sorry this situation is causing you stress in your relationship with your former broker. Again, we have no control over agreements or billing arrangements between you and her and are not the one's to make this right for you. You are not our client, we can give no further refunds. Attached is a copy of your billing which clearly shows your refunds and one month paid of service to us along with the set-up fee.
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 12, 2016/11/13) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
False information stated