When a pool owner calls our company to perform Leak Detection, it is because they cannot find the leaks themselves In our opinion, this customer is obviously not experienced in, or qualified to perform leak detection/repair let alone analyze the failure mode that caused the additional leak over a year after we were there The customer’s opinion that we put the hole in the liner at the light faceplate is solely based upon the fact that he did not see a hole in his liner before he called us He did not see the two other holes in the deep end or the crack in the step but he does not have an issue with them Ultimately the customer wants us to be responsible for a pool that had an issue when he bought the house It was his failure to get the proper inspections to make him aware of the problem or potential problems before he bought the house After we performed our services and he was finally told of the situation, he still did not follow any of our recommendations It is not our fault as he clearly admitted being told the repair was temporary and yet he ignored our advice It is common sense that if a repair is temporary and a permanent fix is not done then it will get worse We even offered to put half of the cost of the leak detection towards the new liner (permanent repair) This is a very common offer we do when leak detection turns into the need for a new liner Throughout the years we have invested over $20,in leak detection equipment It is this equipment that allows us to find a pin hole in an inground pool and then be certain that there are no more leaks elsewhere This is why we kept looking for additional leaks after we found and repaired two pin holes in the liner in the deep end, and a crack in the step We knew there was still another leak somewhere else It was eventually the one found behind the light faceplate After the temporary repair to the light face plate the customer’s pool was confirmed to have no leaks when we left This is done with a device that measures water loss 1/10,of an inch at a time It will actually measure and graph the evaporation of pool water in real time All of the repairs have photos to document what was done and the customer was given the opportunity to stop in our office to review any of the photos we have He refused to stop in and discuss the situation Had he come in he would have seen that all of the photos are time stamped and in sequential order proving we have not omitted or changed any of the photos We also could have discussed any repair options he wanted to try himself Below is an issue by issue reply to each of the customer’s concerns Although it is lengthy, we at APCO feel it is important to protect our reputation and as such we must address all of his statements We welcome any comments and would be glad to talk to any potential clients about the specifics involved here Customer’s statement: I had a leak detection test and patch work done in July of Two weeks after they did the job I was still losing water and told Theresa at Apco about it right awayI chalked it up to evaporationWhen the techs did the job, the lead guy said the putty he put around the plastic face rim was a temporary fix, and I should probably get a new liner soon APCO response: The customer did call us on July 15th for leak detection on his pool We scheduled a service call to locate and repair (if possible) the leak(s) in his pool We sent two technicians out to the customer’s house and over a period of hours we found two small holes in the liner in the deep end of the pool, a crack in the acrylic step, and a leak behind the light faceplate The two holes in the liner were patched The crack in the step was repaired with underwater epoxy The leak behind the light face was not permanently repairable so we used non-hardening putty The leak behind the light face plate was due to an improper interface between the liner and the faceplate This most likely occurred when the liner was installed for the previous homeowner (and not by APCO) The putty around the light faceplate was only a temporary repair as the actual leak was behind the faceplate and we could not access the hole This was all explained to the customer along with the need for a new liner The customer did call about two weeks later with a suspected leak He said it was ¼” per day After discussing it with Theresa it was determined to only be evaporation The customer never called us back until this year The customer was also given a quote for a new liner the following day Customer’s statement: He also said the liner wasn’t installed rightMaybe so, but that didn’t account for another hole that wasn’t there before they started the job APCO response: The hole the customer is referring to was not there when we started, or when we finished The customer did not see that hole until over a year laterThis was after not following our advice to get a new liner ASAP He not only did not get a new liner, but he let the pool drain dangerously low over the winter This is what caused the liner to stretch and shrink and cause the putty to come loose and the small hole to tear more creating the larger hole that the customer sees now He only called one time, several weeks after the repairs were performed to report a possible leak of ¼” per day Theresa explained that up to ¼” per day is “evaporation” around here We never heard from him again until over a year later Customer’s statement: Now I know why he was pushing the new liner before the putty fell off and I saw the hole APCO response: We never “pushed” for a new liner We are not high pressure people Our policy is to be as conservative as possible and to do everything in our power to help the customer We feel that if we do the best job for our customers, then our customers will be loyal to us We gave him our professional opinion on how to best repair the leak long term In this case that was an estimate for a new liner We never heard from him again regarding wanting a new liner and based upon the condition his pool is currently in we gave him the correct advice Customer’s statement: So this year the putty started falling offI’d pick it up and stick it back on the best I could until the next piece fell offLast night, 08/06/14, I get home, find another piece on the bottom, and I get in the pool to fix it, and there’s this huge hole staring at me that wasn’t there before the putty was put on APCO response: The large hole he is referring to was there but it was a smaller hole up behind the faceplate I even sent the customer a photo we took with an underwater camera prior to installing the putty that shows the leak locating dye getting drawn into the same location I also sent him a second photo (a different angle) of the hole up behind the faceplate The hole became larger as the customer did not follow our advice and replace his liner He chose to close the pool with a possible leak The pool then drained down over the winter, again to just below the light faceplate like the previous year When this happens the liner can shrink up When the pool is filled up again it can cause a small hole to get larger as the liner stretches back into place This is even more prevalent as the liner gets older and less flexible The customer’s liner was approximately years old in The average liner is replaced after about 10-years It is never recommended to let any liner pool have the water too low for a long period of time as they will almost certainly shrink up and then subsequently tear when they are refilled Customer’s statement: It’s ½” long and about ½” wideI can’t patch it myself because I just had shoulder surgeryI was perfectly fine with replacing the putty myself this year, until I saw the gaping holeIt looks like they tried to hide it with the extra puttyFirst he had to cover the hole with putty, then continue with the same size bead around the light to keep it uniform so I wouldn’t noticeThat explains why there’s a ridiculous amount of putty around the light and looks terrible APCO response: The amount of putty used, although unsightly was required to seal the gap between the faceplate and the liner that is around the perimeter This is required if there is a leak behind the light faceplate that cannot be accessed to properly repair Customer’s statement: I have a picture from April last year when I took the cover off, no hole in liner APCO response: This is because the hole was up behind the faceplate It should be noted that when he originally called us he stated that when he took the cover off (in the spring of 2013) the water was down to the bottom of the light faceplate (just below the area in question) Customer’s statement: I changed the bulb before the guys did the work in July, still no hole in linerIf there was, we all would have seen it, which means the hole happened when either the guy in the water slipped or the guy above with the pole slippedI wasn’t in the water so I can’t tell you how it happened or who did it, but why would I pay $for leak detection if there was a visible hole in the liner near the light? If you saw a 2” hole in your liner, would you bother paying $for a leak detection test first, or just patch the hole and see if that fixed the problem before investing hundreds of dollars more? I paid $and not only did they not fix the leak, they made the liner worse than it was before they started and tried to hide it by adding extra putty, hoping I’d get a new liner before the putty fell off and I saw the hole APCO response: The location of the hole makes it almost impossible to see without getting into the pool and looking up at the bottom of the lightAll we know for a fact, is that the large hole “appeared” sometime between when we arrived to perform leak detection in and August 7th when The customer contacted us As for the claim of “someone slipped” would not be possible as the pole in question has a smooth, round, PVC end on it It is a piece of equipment designed specifically to run along touching the pool liner while “scanning” for leaks There were no other tools that could cut the liner ever placed in the water to “slip” with Customer’s statement: What did they really expect me to do a year later when the putty started dropping off and this huge hole appeared? APCO response: The leak putty we used is common and it can last for many, many years, if the material it is “stuck to” does not move If it is stuck to a liner and the liner floats, shrinks, stretches, or moves it is almost a sure thing it will come loose Again, this is why we told him this was only a temporary repair and he would need a new liner very soon Customer’s statement: Hope I wouldn’t notice? The putty and the work may have only been good for a year, but it still doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that the liner was damaged further while they were supposed to be fixing it, then handed me a bill! Accidents happen, but the correct way to fix it would have been to say, “Hey, I slipped and put a hole in the liner,” patch the hole, then put the putty around the lightNot just hid the hole with putty APCO response: There is absolutely no truth to this statement The customer was either there or had the option of being there while we were doing the leak detection He claims we put a hole in the liner while using a “putty knife.” We would never use a putty knife as the putty is a clay like compound that can easily be formed and applied with your hands He never saw any knife and is only guessing as to the cause The customer himself was able to put the putty back on without a putty knife but claims we used one We have been performing leak detection and repair for years and have attended many seminars and know better than to take any tool that could possibly cut the liner in the pool Customer’s statement: I called Apco the next day at 7: AM on 08/07/and told Theresa the problemShe said she’d call me backI called again at 10:AM and she said the owner Al “remembers the job” and will call me back in about hours when he comes back in the officeRemembers the job? Why? Of all the jobs I’m sure they must have done since then, he remembers mine? And he never even came out to see the finished job! APCO response: Theresa never said “I remembered” the job She said “I would remember the job” I am very aware of what is going on out in the fieldThis is because we have a morning meeting each work day to discuss the prior day’s jobs in addition to the work for that dayWe also take dozens of photos and have lots of notes on every job we perform, no matter how big or smallI always review this information prior to calling a customer back Customer’s statement: Al called me back at 1:PM and spent minutes trying to tell me that the liner pulled away from the niche Needless to say he had an answer for everythingHe even sent a few pictures, but no pictures of this “new” holeI told him it looked more like a cutThe edges were smoothI told him all I want is the hole patched so I can caulk around the outer plastic face rimHe suggested I talk to his diver friend who wants to charge me $ I sent him a picture of the new holeIt’s not really new, it was just conveniently puttied over APCO response: I suggested the diver as I know that if the light faceplate is removed the way it is the liner will be lost as all of the holes will not match up to reinstall the faceplate I know better than to start a job such as this especially if we did not install the liner to know how the liner was stretched into placeI was not even sure if the diver would attempt this repair but it did not matter as the customer would not entertain any option that would cost him anything I offered to have the customer come to our office and review the photos and explain everything but all he wanted is to have me send someone out there to perform his “fix” to the area in question It’s odd how last year he could not find any of his four leaks but now he is an expert on repairing leaks behind the light faceplate I’ve been doing pool repairs for over years and this is one of the hardest locations to repair long term Customer’s statement: Too make a long story short, I finally came across an old email that says Apco installed the new light years after the liner was installedIf the liner wasn’t installed correctly, Apco should have made provisions for that at the time of installationApco didn’t bother to mention this to me APCO response: The email he sent me was from a real estate agent when he bought the property Yes we did install a new light, but it was only a light bulb It was the same task he performed and it does not require disturbing the interface between the liner and the light faceplate We never inspected the faceplate interface as the previous home owner never told us the pool had a leak at that time We were just called out to put in the customer supplied light bulb Most importantly, we have absolutely no obligation to advise a customer of something that happened years BEFORE he bought the property In fact we would never discuss any job related details without the express consent from the home owner who paid for the services I’m sure he would want the same If the customer had a real estate pool inspection done by us we would have performed a leak test, found that a leak existed, and advised him of the testing required to find it, and the potential costs to repair This is standard procedure for any pool inspection for a real estate transactionThe email also claims that we certified the pool “structurally sound” when we never did any certification for the pool The customer should call the real estate agent and ask her why she made those statements or call the person who put the liner in years before he bought the house Customer’s statement: I forwarded the email to Apco and told them we should talk again and I’d be in touchHe called me, offended and even defended the tech, who coincidentally doesn't even woor there anymore, in spite of the fact that the owner hadn't even seen the hole in person APCO response: The reason I was offended is that in the email he stated that “someone is not being honest.” I take our reputation very seriously and try to treat every customer as I would want to be treated, until they call me or my employees a liar As for the technician he claims does not work here anymore There were two technicians at his pool, as for safety reasons we never dive a pool alone One still works here today The other is on his way across country I still talk to him frequently and he is the best technician I have ever worked with I would be glad to have him back if his trek across the country finds him back here in the future I would trust anything he says to be fact I have spoken to him specifically about the customer’s job and we are in agreement with everything stated here and that the photos show Customer’s statement: He swears it's the liner stretching, but there are no stress marks in the vinyl to indicate thatJust a hole with sharp edges, like somebody used a putty knife to jam the putty in, and slipped He couldn't argue with me so he hung up and refused to deal with me again APCO response: The reason I hung up the phone was that The customer was impossible to tell anything and he knows everything I have worked on thousands of liner pools over 30+ years and yet he insisted on telling me how I should do my job This was after several emails and phone conversations trying to explain how the liner is fit behind the light faceplate and why I would not perform the repair he was suggesting He swears there “are no stress marks” yet this is the only liner he has ever seen with a hole like that and can only guess at the failure mode of the material Especially when looking at the hole while holding your breath underwater He told me on the phone the liner “has no stretch to it” yet every liner manufacturer designs the liner to be stretched into place It is the nature of how a liner is fit The photo of the hole he sent me clearly shows the tear going up behind the face plate It would be impossible to “cut the liner” behind the faceplate as he claims I tried to discuss with the customer how he could tell if my theory of how this occurred was correct but all he wanted to know was “what if it wasn’t” We never installed this liner or faceplate and yet he wants me to be responsible for it At some point if I cannot reason with a customer and I feel they are just trying to wear me down I have to deal with it I never want to hang up on any customer but sometimes there are no choices if a customer cannot be reasoned with Desired Outcome/Settlement: Customer’s statement: Fix the hole that wasn't there when the job was started along with the smaller holes that were there so I can finish fixing the actual leak myself with caulk APCO response: I understand the customer wants the hole repaired he claims was not there, but this hole has always been there It was small and hidden last year It is now larger, and will continue to get larger This is why we recommended a new liner There is no reliable, long term solution, given the nature and location of the hole After the installation of the liner, the gaskets and faceplates are installed Then the hole for the light is cut out, it is extremely risky to remove the light faceplate after the pool has been filled It is even riskier if you are not the original installer or are not aware of how the liner was initially measured, installed, and stretched into place When there is a hole such as this, under a light faceplate, it is usually recommended that a new liner be installed and that the repair is only temporary The “caulk” the customer wants to use is not meant for this application It is a flexible sealer and we have it in our leak repair kits at all times We are even recommended by the manufacturer of the flexible sealer for leak detection in this area and occasionally test their new equipment We are an authorized warranty repair center for several liner manufactures and have seen hundreds of liners with various failure modes We are more than qualified to determine the most probable cause and the best repair for any given situation Flexible sealer is basically vinyl liner glue with blue or white vinyl additive While it can be a great help in the right situation, I would never use it as the customer has in his situation To do so would be a disservice to the customer and definitely not a long term repair
When a pool owner calls our company to perform Leak Detection, it is because they cannot find the leaks themselves In our opinion, this customer is obviously not experienced in, or qualified to perform leak detection/repair let alone analyze the failure mode that caused the additional leak over a year after we were there The customer’s opinion that we put the hole in the liner at the light faceplate is solely based upon the fact that he did not see a hole in his liner before he called us He did not see the two other holes in the deep end or the crack in the step but he does not have an issue with them Ultimately the customer wants us to be responsible for a pool that had an issue when he bought the house It was his failure to get the proper inspections to make him aware of the problem or potential problems before he bought the house After we performed our services and he was finally told of the situation, he still did not follow any of our recommendations It is not our fault as he clearly admitted being told the repair was temporary and yet he ignored our advice It is common sense that if a repair is temporary and a permanent fix is not done then it will get worse We even offered to put half of the cost of the leak detection towards the new liner (permanent repair) This is a very common offer we do when leak detection turns into the need for a new liner Throughout the years we have invested over $20,in leak detection equipment It is this equipment that allows us to find a pin hole in an inground pool and then be certain that there are no more leaks elsewhere This is why we kept looking for additional leaks after we found and repaired two pin holes in the liner in the deep end, and a crack in the step We knew there was still another leak somewhere else It was eventually the one found behind the light faceplate After the temporary repair to the light face plate the customer’s pool was confirmed to have no leaks when we left This is done with a device that measures water loss 1/10,of an inch at a time It will actually measure and graph the evaporation of pool water in real time All of the repairs have photos to document what was done and the customer was given the opportunity to stop in our office to review any of the photos we have He refused to stop in and discuss the situation Had he come in he would have seen that all of the photos are time stamped and in sequential order proving we have not omitted or changed any of the photos We also could have discussed any repair options he wanted to try himself Below is an issue by issue reply to each of the customer’s concerns Although it is lengthy, we at APCO feel it is important to protect our reputation and as such we must address all of his statements We welcome any comments and would be glad to talk to any potential clients about the specifics involved here Customer’s statement: I had a leak detection test and patch work done in July of Two weeks after they did the job I was still losing water and told Theresa at Apco about it right awayI chalked it up to evaporationWhen the techs did the job, the lead guy said the putty he put around the plastic face rim was a temporary fix, and I should probably get a new liner soon APCO response: The customer did call us on July 15th for leak detection on his pool We scheduled a service call to locate and repair (if possible) the leak(s) in his pool We sent two technicians out to the customer’s house and over a period of hours we found two small holes in the liner in the deep end of the pool, a crack in the acrylic step, and a leak behind the light faceplate The two holes in the liner were patched The crack in the step was repaired with underwater epoxy The leak behind the light face was not permanently repairable so we used non-hardening putty The leak behind the light face plate was due to an improper interface between the liner and the faceplate This most likely occurred when the liner was installed for the previous homeowner (and not by APCO) The putty around the light faceplate was only a temporary repair as the actual leak was behind the faceplate and we could not access the hole This was all explained to the customer along with the need for a new liner The customer did call about two weeks later with a suspected leak He said it was ¼” per day After discussing it with Theresa it was determined to only be evaporation The customer never called us back until this year The customer was also given a quote for a new liner the following day Customer’s statement: He also said the liner wasn’t installed rightMaybe so, but that didn’t account for another hole that wasn’t there before they started the job APCO response: The hole the customer is referring to was not there when we started, or when we finished The customer did not see that hole until over a year laterThis was after not following our advice to get a new liner ASAP He not only did not get a new liner, but he let the pool drain dangerously low over the winter This is what caused the liner to stretch and shrink and cause the putty to come loose and the small hole to tear more creating the larger hole that the customer sees now He only called one time, several weeks after the repairs were performed to report a possible leak of ¼” per day Theresa explained that up to ¼” per day is “evaporation” around here We never heard from him again until over a year later Customer’s statement: Now I know why he was pushing the new liner before the putty fell off and I saw the hole APCO response: We never “pushed” for a new liner We are not high pressure people Our policy is to be as conservative as possible and to do everything in our power to help the customer We feel that if we do the best job for our customers, then our customers will be loyal to us We gave him our professional opinion on how to best repair the leak long term In this case that was an estimate for a new liner We never heard from him again regarding wanting a new liner and based upon the condition his pool is currently in we gave him the correct advice Customer’s statement: So this year the putty started falling offI’d pick it up and stick it back on the best I could until the next piece fell offLast night, 08/06/14, I get home, find another piece on the bottom, and I get in the pool to fix it, and there’s this huge hole staring at me that wasn’t there before the putty was put on APCO response: The large hole he is referring to was there but it was a smaller hole up behind the faceplate I even sent the customer a photo we took with an underwater camera prior to installing the putty that shows the leak locating dye getting drawn into the same location I also sent him a second photo (a different angle) of the hole up behind the faceplate The hole became larger as the customer did not follow our advice and replace his liner He chose to close the pool with a possible leak The pool then drained down over the winter, again to just below the light faceplate like the previous year When this happens the liner can shrink up When the pool is filled up again it can cause a small hole to get larger as the liner stretches back into place This is even more prevalent as the liner gets older and less flexible The customer’s liner was approximately years old in The average liner is replaced after about 10-years It is never recommended to let any liner pool have the water too low for a long period of time as they will almost certainly shrink up and then subsequently tear when they are refilled Customer’s statement: It’s ½” long and about ½” wideI can’t patch it myself because I just had shoulder surgeryI was perfectly fine with replacing the putty myself this year, until I saw the gaping holeIt looks like they tried to hide it with the extra puttyFirst he had to cover the hole with putty, then continue with the same size bead around the light to keep it uniform so I wouldn’t noticeThat explains why there’s a ridiculous amount of putty around the light and looks terrible APCO response: The amount of putty used, although unsightly was required to seal the gap between the faceplate and the liner that is around the perimeter This is required if there is a leak behind the light faceplate that cannot be accessed to properly repair Customer’s statement: I have a picture from April last year when I took the cover off, no hole in liner APCO response: This is because the hole was up behind the faceplate It should be noted that when he originally called us he stated that when he took the cover off (in the spring of 2013) the water was down to the bottom of the light faceplate (just below the area in question) Customer’s statement: I changed the bulb before the guys did the work in July, still no hole in linerIf there was, we all would have seen it, which means the hole happened when either the guy in the water slipped or the guy above with the pole slippedI wasn’t in the water so I can’t tell you how it happened or who did it, but why would I pay $for leak detection if there was a visible hole in the liner near the light? If you saw a 2” hole in your liner, would you bother paying $for a leak detection test first, or just patch the hole and see if that fixed the problem before investing hundreds of dollars more? I paid $and not only did they not fix the leak, they made the liner worse than it was before they started and tried to hide it by adding extra putty, hoping I’d get a new liner before the putty fell off and I saw the hole APCO response: The location of the hole makes it almost impossible to see without getting into the pool and looking up at the bottom of the lightAll we know for a fact, is that the large hole “appeared” sometime between when we arrived to perform leak detection in and August 7th when The customer contacted us As for the claim of “someone slipped” would not be possible as the pole in question has a smooth, round, PVC end on it It is a piece of equipment designed specifically to run along touching the pool liner while “scanning” for leaks There were no other tools that could cut the liner ever placed in the water to “slip” with Customer’s statement: What did they really expect me to do a year later when the putty started dropping off and this huge hole appeared? APCO response: The leak putty we used is common and it can last for many, many years, if the material it is “stuck to” does not move If it is stuck to a liner and the liner floats, shrinks, stretches, or moves it is almost a sure thing it will come loose Again, this is why we told him this was only a temporary repair and he would need a new liner very soon Customer’s statement: Hope I wouldn’t notice? The putty and the work may have only been good for a year, but it still doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that the liner was damaged further while they were supposed to be fixing it, then handed me a bill! Accidents happen, but the correct way to fix it would have been to say, “Hey, I slipped and put a hole in the liner,” patch the hole, then put the putty around the lightNot just hid the hole with putty APCO response: There is absolutely no truth to this statement The customer was either there or had the option of being there while we were doing the leak detection He claims we put a hole in the liner while using a “putty knife.” We would never use a putty knife as the putty is a clay like compound that can easily be formed and applied with your hands He never saw any knife and is only guessing as to the cause The customer himself was able to put the putty back on without a putty knife but claims we used one We have been performing leak detection and repair for years and have attended many seminars and know better than to take any tool that could possibly cut the liner in the pool Customer’s statement: I called Apco the next day at 7: AM on 08/07/and told Theresa the problemShe said she’d call me backI called again at 10:AM and she said the owner Al “remembers the job” and will call me back in about hours when he comes back in the officeRemembers the job? Why? Of all the jobs I’m sure they must have done since then, he remembers mine? And he never even came out to see the finished job! APCO response: Theresa never said “I remembered” the job She said “I would remember the job” I am very aware of what is going on out in the fieldThis is because we have a morning meeting each work day to discuss the prior day’s jobs in addition to the work for that dayWe also take dozens of photos and have lots of notes on every job we perform, no matter how big or smallI always review this information prior to calling a customer back Customer’s statement: Al called me back at 1:PM and spent minutes trying to tell me that the liner pulled away from the niche Needless to say he had an answer for everythingHe even sent a few pictures, but no pictures of this “new” holeI told him it looked more like a cutThe edges were smoothI told him all I want is the hole patched so I can caulk around the outer plastic face rimHe suggested I talk to his diver friend who wants to charge me $ I sent him a picture of the new holeIt’s not really new, it was just conveniently puttied over APCO response: I suggested the diver as I know that if the light faceplate is removed the way it is the liner will be lost as all of the holes will not match up to reinstall the faceplate I know better than to start a job such as this especially if we did not install the liner to know how the liner was stretched into placeI was not even sure if the diver would attempt this repair but it did not matter as the customer would not entertain any option that would cost him anything I offered to have the customer come to our office and review the photos and explain everything but all he wanted is to have me send someone out there to perform his “fix” to the area in question It’s odd how last year he could not find any of his four leaks but now he is an expert on repairing leaks behind the light faceplate I’ve been doing pool repairs for over years and this is one of the hardest locations to repair long term Customer’s statement: Too make a long story short, I finally came across an old email that says Apco installed the new light years after the liner was installedIf the liner wasn’t installed correctly, Apco should have made provisions for that at the time of installationApco didn’t bother to mention this to me APCO response: The email he sent me was from a real estate agent when he bought the property Yes we did install a new light, but it was only a light bulb It was the same task he performed and it does not require disturbing the interface between the liner and the light faceplate We never inspected the faceplate interface as the previous home owner never told us the pool had a leak at that time We were just called out to put in the customer supplied light bulb Most importantly, we have absolutely no obligation to advise a customer of something that happened years BEFORE he bought the property In fact we would never discuss any job related details without the express consent from the home owner who paid for the services I’m sure he would want the same If the customer had a real estate pool inspection done by us we would have performed a leak test, found that a leak existed, and advised him of the testing required to find it, and the potential costs to repair This is standard procedure for any pool inspection for a real estate transactionThe email also claims that we certified the pool “structurally sound” when we never did any certification for the pool The customer should call the real estate agent and ask her why she made those statements or call the person who put the liner in years before he bought the house Customer’s statement: I forwarded the email to Apco and told them we should talk again and I’d be in touchHe called me, offended and even defended the tech, who coincidentally doesn't even woor there anymore, in spite of the fact that the owner hadn't even seen the hole in person APCO response: The reason I was offended is that in the email he stated that “someone is not being honest.” I take our reputation very seriously and try to treat every customer as I would want to be treated, until they call me or my employees a liar As for the technician he claims does not work here anymore There were two technicians at his pool, as for safety reasons we never dive a pool alone One still works here today The other is on his way across country I still talk to him frequently and he is the best technician I have ever worked with I would be glad to have him back if his trek across the country finds him back here in the future I would trust anything he says to be fact I have spoken to him specifically about the customer’s job and we are in agreement with everything stated here and that the photos show Customer’s statement: He swears it's the liner stretching, but there are no stress marks in the vinyl to indicate thatJust a hole with sharp edges, like somebody used a putty knife to jam the putty in, and slipped He couldn't argue with me so he hung up and refused to deal with me again APCO response: The reason I hung up the phone was that The customer was impossible to tell anything and he knows everything I have worked on thousands of liner pools over 30+ years and yet he insisted on telling me how I should do my job This was after several emails and phone conversations trying to explain how the liner is fit behind the light faceplate and why I would not perform the repair he was suggesting He swears there “are no stress marks” yet this is the only liner he has ever seen with a hole like that and can only guess at the failure mode of the material Especially when looking at the hole while holding your breath underwater He told me on the phone the liner “has no stretch to it” yet every liner manufacturer designs the liner to be stretched into place It is the nature of how a liner is fit The photo of the hole he sent me clearly shows the tear going up behind the face plate It would be impossible to “cut the liner” behind the faceplate as he claims I tried to discuss with the customer how he could tell if my theory of how this occurred was correct but all he wanted to know was “what if it wasn’t” We never installed this liner or faceplate and yet he wants me to be responsible for it At some point if I cannot reason with a customer and I feel they are just trying to wear me down I have to deal with it I never want to hang up on any customer but sometimes there are no choices if a customer cannot be reasoned with Desired Outcome/Settlement: Customer’s statement: Fix the hole that wasn't there when the job was started along with the smaller holes that were there so I can finish fixing the actual leak myself with caulk APCO response: I understand the customer wants the hole repaired he claims was not there, but this hole has always been there It was small and hidden last year It is now larger, and will continue to get larger This is why we recommended a new liner There is no reliable, long term solution, given the nature and location of the hole After the installation of the liner, the gaskets and faceplates are installed Then the hole for the light is cut out, it is extremely risky to remove the light faceplate after the pool has been filled It is even riskier if you are not the original installer or are not aware of how the liner was initially measured, installed, and stretched into place When there is a hole such as this, under a light faceplate, it is usually recommended that a new liner be installed and that the repair is only temporary The “caulk” the customer wants to use is not meant for this application It is a flexible sealer and we have it in our leak repair kits at all times We are even recommended by the manufacturer of the flexible sealer for leak detection in this area and occasionally test their new equipment We are an authorized warranty repair center for several liner manufactures and have seen hundreds of liners with various failure modes We are more than qualified to determine the most probable cause and the best repair for any given situation Flexible sealer is basically vinyl liner glue with blue or white vinyl additive While it can be a great help in the right situation, I would never use it as the customer has in his situation To do so would be a disservice to the customer and definitely not a long term repair