Arrow HVAC

Review: [redacted], for this business had been working with us through a property management company in December 2013 to make repairs to our heating system. Initially, I was not in direct contact with [redacted] so I cannot say for sure what he told the management firm regarding recommendations/ proposed work. When pressed for details, the story changes to leave an “out” for [redacted]. The bottom line is that he first came out Dec 10 and did some minor repairs charging $195 and recommended additional repairs but stated our tenants should have heat. On Dec 13 the boiler went out completely and he replaced our boiler pump for $915. When there was a problem he returned Dec 26th and replaced it again under warranty stateing that the new pump should "be much better". On Jan 1st there was a problem again at which time we were charged $450 to get it working because he reported that the problem occurred because we did not have the entire job he proposed done. He recommended that in order to get things completely working that we make another $1900 in repairs. I feel he should not have agreed to perform any of the previous repairs if he considered them only partial work and did not think it would work as he currently claims was the case!

On January 6th the boiler broke down again and we contacted [redacted] directly. We also initiated a second opinion through another company who stated the boiler was beyond repair and would not function correctly. In great detail and depth, we asked [redacted] his professional opinion. When asked if he would replace or repair this in his own home, he stated “this is what I do”, and assured us that he could do the repair. We asked specifically if these repairs would be a temporary fix, "a band-aid", or if his proposed fixes were a good long term solution. We were assured that if we did all of the proposed fixes that he was confident that the system would work correctly long-term. He completed this work on Jan 11th. On the 12th we let him know that the thermostat was set to 80 but that the temp in the house was 73-75. He returned on the 13th and changed the temperature setting on the boiler in attempt to increase the heat and suddenly told us about a leak he had noted that was not there previously. His recommendation at that time was to "leave it unless it gets worse or the tenants complain" (we expressed our hesitance to "leave" anything since we were not at the house to monitor things ourselves but did not have a chance to make a decision prior to the next problem.) On the 21st I was again notified that the heat was not working. [redacted] went out on the 22nd to find that there was a 2nd new leak, now in the water line just above where he had installed the new pump. This leak had put out the pilot light. He has insisted that this new leak was completely unrelated to the work he had done although it was not leaking prior to his work, and was located just above one of the sites he had worked on. He did however provide this work without charge stating that this was because he had done so much work for us, not because it was covered under any warranty or his 90 day labor guarantee. Also following this visit, he told me verbally on the phone that if there was further problems we would have to look into the first leak he had found which was coming from inside the boiler (which of course would not be covered under his guarantee on his previous work). He said that it could be the heat exchanger which would warrant replacement of the boiler or could be a gasket which could be repaired – he had no way to know what would be needed. On the invoice he sent the same day however, he listed it as a problem with the heat exchanger. He was adamant through this that the work he had done was all working correctly and that we were developing all new problems which he had no way to know prior to his work or were brand new since his repairs but unrelated. Based on all of this, we decided it would be in our best interests to get a few estimates on replacing the boiler "just in case". When we entered the home on Jan 28 to get an estimate we were informed that the heat had not been working since [redacted] had last been there on the 22nd and the temp in the house was 62 with the boiler still running. The company coming in to give an estimate confirmed that the boiler needed to be replaced ASAP. Because we were now in an emergency situation we were unable to get additional estimates but now had 2 recommendations to replace it as opposed to [redacted] saying it could be fixed which he clearly no longer believed anyways. I contacted [redacted] that day and he continues to insist that the boiler has been fixed each time that he has been there and that he did his job. Although he provides a 90 day guarantee on all of his labor, he feels that he did his job and does not owe a refund despite the fact that the tenants have continuously stated that it has never worked correctly, and just 17 days later there is clear evidence that the boiler is not working and needs to be replaced. When I spoke with him on the 28th, he stated that if he was not given a chance to repair things, there was nothing he could do; however, his previous invoice clearly showed that he felt any current problems were new and unrelated to his prior work, thus we would be charged for them after he had already been out 6 times and charged us for repairs that have held for less than 2 weeks each time.

We contracted Arrow HVAC and trusted [redacted]'s expertise to repair our boiler. Our contract with him was not just to fix specific parts, it was to fix the boiler and that clearly did not happen. The work was guaranteed for 90 day but just 17 days later we find ourselves replacing the boiler completely. At this point I do not feel it would have been reasonable to offer him the opportunity to come out and try to fix it again, as he clearly planned to charge us for additional repairs, and he had not been able to successfully repair it in the past 6 attempts.

In addition to all of this, when the boiler went out on the 10th we ended up with frozen pipes which [redacted] also repaired. He charged us up front $1900 for the work he proposed to do on the boiler (and this is the only work he reported doing on the boiler). When we got the bill for the repairs to the pipes he charged us a total of $2300. This included 6 hours of labor ($600) for him to try and find a tool to thaw the pipes which he was never able to find at all. He charged us for 16 hours of actual labor on our system which was the total number of hours he spent at our home despite that we had prepaid for the boiler portion of the job. He justified this by stating he was going to have to go out one additional time because he had forgotten to bring over one of the parts needed to complete the boiler work (a part that was listed in his proposal so he knew ahead of time he would need). When we brought these concerns to his attention, he did decrease the bill by $400 although I suspect that he spent more than 4 hours on the boiler work. Despite our protests, he would not change the bill charging us $600 for him to search for a part that he was unable to find, and this was not an expense that we had previously agreed upon. We reluctantly paid this amount because at that time we were thankful to have the job done only to find out 17 days later that we still need a new boiler.Desired Settlement: I feel that we are owed a refund of the $3600 we paid for work on the boiler as well as the $600 for the time spent searching for a tools since as a business owner it is his responsibility to have the tools to perform his job or let us know that he can not complete it. I would be agreeable to some compromise.

Business

Response:

[redacted]

Revdex.com

Complaint # [redacted],

December 10th, was first called to the [redacted]

property @ [redacted]

I found many problems with the boiler and made a list of

recommendations. See Invoice # [redacted].

And I gave them an estimate of what it would cost to make

the repairs. They did nothing.

Three days later they called back & said the boiler went

down again.

I went back & found the circulator pump bad. (It was one

of my recommendations to replace).

I gave them a separate price for replacement of the pump

only. I am still recommending all of the repairs. I assume they were not doing all the repairs

because of the costs.

I got an authorization to replace the pump only and got the job

done the same day.

The invoice was COD but they did not pay at first.

They called me back on December 26th. I found that the new pump was bad

already. It only lasted 13 days. I believe it seized up because of lack of

lubrication because the boiler doesn’t have enough water pressure.( another one

of my recommendations ) It’s a water

lubricated pump.(common in these types of systems). This could have been avoided if they would

have followed my recommendations.

Even though I have not been paid and the pump failed because

they didn’t complete all the repairs.

I replaced the pump again under warranty at no charge.

They called me back on New Year’s Day. I went there & purged & filled the

system. I said this is not under warranty because another one of my

recommendations was to replace the pressure reducing valve which is not filling

the boiler. See Invoice # [redacted].

The boiler went down again. This time the tenant left the

house & it froze. Now there is

additional damage of frozen pipes & water leaks.

Now they finally gave me authorization for the rest of the

repairs and made a payment for the pump and the recommended repairs.

I let them know that there will be additional charges to

repair the pipes & stop the water leaks.

I got started right away.

I worked Thursday Jan. 9th, Friday Jan. 10th,

& Saturday Jan. 11th & Monday Jan. 13th. When I returned on Monday I noticed a leak in

the boiler. I immediately notified

[redacted] by phone of the leak. She said

she saw that but didn’t think much of it.

The boiler leak was not there until we got more pressure in the

boiler. There was no way to find that

because it wasn’t leaking until we increased the pressure.

I talked about

repairing the leak. We would have to disassemble

the boiler to find the leak, or possibly use a leak sealing chemical. Ultimately replacing the boiler was going to

happen. The boiler was working & I

know they don’t want to spend any more money.

So we thought we’d let it leak for now unless the tenant complains. The boiler refills itself.

The boiler went down again.

This time a new leak appeared on a pipe connection above the pump. Water

leaked into the burner compartment and got the pilot light wet.

This leak was on a pipe joint that I did not touch. However I repaired it anyway at no

charge.

The boiler went down again I suspect because of the boiler

leak. The tenant didn’t notify anyone

and moved out again. The pipes may have

froze again.

I feel that all of my work has been done properly and

promptly. The problems that we have had

are mostly related to knowing we have problems but not getting authorization

until it’s too late.

The keelings have decided to replace the boiler & now

want a refund on my work.

We have been trying to save money by repairing Instead of

replacement. That was the plan.

My feeling is that if the [redacted] want to change the

direction of the plan that is their decision.

But there is nothing wrong with my work.

I have already given them at least 3 free repairs that were

not my fault.

I have also dropped 4 hours of labor on Saturday just to get

paid.

I do not feel that the [redacted] are due any other refunds.

It’s like a car, everybody can relate to this.

You spend money on new breaks, new tires, new paint job,

maybe more. Now the transmission goes

bad and you want to get a new car.

You don’t get a refund on the new breaks, new tires, new

paint job etc.

[redacted] Boehme

ARROW HVAC LLC.

Business

Response:

Revdex.com

[redacted],

Complaint ID [redacted]

In response of Mrs. [redacted] 2nd letter dated

2-6-2014.

We have already discussed the invoices dated Dec 10, 13, 26,

& Jan 1st. If there was some

communication break down between ([redacted]) & Mrs. [redacted]

I have no control over that. I was not

able to contact Mrs. [redacted].

What I do know is that I noted many problems with their

boiler and I also quoted prices for the recommended repair. They did not give me any authorization at

first. Then when the pump failed I got

authorization to replace the pump only.

I replaced the pump as recommended. There was nothing temporary about it. There nothing wrong with my work. I had no

authorization to do anything else. The

only partial part was the Partial authorization.

They did nothing more until the house froze. That was when I first talked with Mrs.

[redacted]. That was when I got her verbal

phone authorization to complete my recommended repairs & I got my first

payment.

We also talked about replacing the boiler or repairing

it. I advised on repair because of the

lower expense and Mrs. [redacted] agreed.

Because they let the house freeze without doing any of my recommendations,

they now caused more problems. Pipes

Freezing, Pipes Breaking, Water leaks, Water Damage, Ect.

I promptly got to work. The goal was to get the system up

and running as soon as possible. I could not quote a price on additional

repairs because there was no way to know how extensive the additional damage

was.

Given the situation that they have caused, and I am scrambling

to get this job going for them. I find their claims to absolutely appalling.

Every business from time to time will need to purchase new

tools. The [redacted] think I should have

a pipe thawing machine. There is very

little call for those machines and most companies don’t have them because they

are very expensive. Furthermore the

[redacted] hired a new company who used a temporary furnace. I know that had a cost to get going as well.

The final complaint they have is that after I completed my

recommended repairs we now found a leak in the boiler. The keelings think that I should have known

about this leak even though it wasn’t leaking before and there was no indication

of a leak. I’d also like to point out

that a leak in a boiler heat exchanger is a very rare occurrence.

Is it possible that the freezing of the house caused the

leak? I have no way of knowing. But yes it is possible.

The HVAC business is not perfect and no business is. Sometimes you run a risk when you repair an

older piece of equipment. You risk unforeseeable

problems appearing but you stand to gain because the repair is expected to be

much cheaper.

Still all was not lost.

Mrs. [redacted] knew about the leak before I did. We were discussing what to do about the

leak. The consensus was to see what will

happen and take further steps if we had to.

The hope was that we could let it leak for a while unless a problem

develops.

A problem did develop but I was not notified. The house

froze again. The [redacted] have decided

to replace the boiler I was not consulted.

So it was the [redacted] choice to abandon the repair Idea and

replace the boiler.

There was nothing wrong the work that I have done; there was

nothing temporary about anything. We were in the process of repairing the system

when the keelings decided to replace the boiler.

As far as Mrs. [redacted] rebuttal of the car analogy, if a

car’s transmission is working and you want to fix up your car, you hope for the

best. No one would take apart the

transmission for inspection to make sure that the transmission is ok before

starting repairs. That would be ludicrous.

One final note is that this entire fiasco could have been prevented

100% had the [redacted] acted on my original proposal. If they were not notified about the problems

then fault rests on the property manager.

Sincerely,

ARROW HVAC LLC.

Consumer

Response: