AutoBahn West

Review: The car is a used with 103K miles on it. The work desired would be costly (over $7,000.00) mostly on and around the engine.

I expressed to the sales rep. that I would not want to go forward with the costly repairs (all aimed at preserving the life of the engine)

if the engine had bad compression or anything indicating being a problem. He sold me on the reliability of the car relating to his

experiences and introduced me to the mechanic who once worked at Newport Beach Porsche.

Aug 2 2013 work completed.

Sept 25 The car is in Circle Porsche of Long Beach Ca. for problems with Over heating . Circle Porsche regrets to inform me that the

engine has a fatal problem as the cooling system has got oil in it.

Vision Motor Sports of Laguna Hills Ca broke the engine down and found a cracked cylinder. Engine rebuild cost $11,907.94.

This car is not my daily driver and not driven much. If no oil was in cooling system at $7,100.00 last AUG (Why am I paying for a new rebuild Oct 2, 2013.

This complaint is bases on : I feel the mechanic doing $7,100.00 dollars of work to an engine (both ext/int) should make certain its with out internal troubles.

I was not treated well when I explained the overheating problem to Autobahn West. Once they had the money, I was being avoided.Desired Settlement: I would be happy to settle with half the cost refunded back to me.

I feel they should have found the oil in cooling system problem and informed me of the circumstances.

Business

Response:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is in regards to complaint ID # [redacted]. Our client Mr. [redacted] called in requesting cost estimates for a list of common repair items for a Porsche he had recently required. I spoke with him on the phone and gave him several estimates for various repairs (transmission service, water pump replacement, intermediate shaft bearing update, fuel filter replacement, fuel filler cap, spark plugs & ignition coils, engine mounts, etc..). A few days later Mr. [redacted] brought the vehicle in for the provided estimates. I was never informed about any prior potential internal engine problems nor was I informed the vehicle had ever been overheated in the past. At the time of service in late July into early August the cooling system did not have any signs of engine oil mixture, nor was any overheating, smoking, or abnormal engine noise occurring. The coolant reservoir is white/ clear and oil in the cooling system would be very obvious to detect. Generally speaking the year and model vehicle is fairly reliable and good car. As stated on the invoice, Mr. [redacted] requested the performed repairs from his readings of online information & common problems with his year and model vehicle.

The work was completed and vehicle was road tested several times. The vehicle was picked up on 8/2/13 and I have not heard from Mr. [redacted] since that date. During the month of September Mr. [redacted] drove by the shop and informed our technician [redacted] that the vehicle was low on coolant and the gauge was creeping up. I was unfortunately out of the office at that time. Mr. [redacted] informed Mr. [redacted] that he was on his way somewhere and in a rush. Mr. [redacted] topped off the coolant level in Mr. [redacted]’s vehicle and asked him to call or return when I ([redacted]) was back in the office later that day. When I returned to the office Mr. [redacted] informed me that Mr. [redacted] had stopped by. I called Mr. [redacted] and was unable to get in contact with him. I did not hear from or see Mr. [redacted] further and simply assumed he had no need to contact me.

Due to the fact that no oil was present in the cooling system at the time of service it would have been impossible to foresee such a problem. Additionally oil and coolant mixture does not affect engine cylinder compression. The work Autobahn West performed is in no way related to oil/ coolant mixture after the fact. If the engine was overheated post his repairs with Autobahn West , oil/ coolant mixture could have occurred. If overheating had occurred before Mr. [redacted] asked us for the various estimates we were unaware of this information and it was undetectable at the time. There is no possible way to confirm oil/ coolant mixture from an internal engine problem without tearing down the engine (as Mr. [redacted] wrote in his statement).

Lastly, only a very small portion of the repairs to Mr. [redacted]’s vehicle at Autobahn West were related to the cooling system. Additionally, in opposition to Mr. [redacted]’s statement, all repairs performed at Autobahn West were external to the engine. This includes the intermediate shaft bearing upgrade which gets removed without any engine dis-assembly using a special removal tool.

Due to the above facts I feel it is unwarranted and unfair to provide Mr. [redacted] with any amount of financial refund. We feel empathetic about Mr. [redacted] having to repair an additional problem with his vehicle, and wish him the best of luck and trouble free operation moving forward.

Sincerely,

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

This is not a contest of the some what sketchy batch of recall on the events leading to the demise of the engine mentioned.

I only wish I had known (as I learned later) to ask you for the exact diagnostic process that would solidify knowledge of the engine block condition.

I'm speaking about the chemical test ( an approx. $40.00 kit) which determines weather or not a high mileage engine has combustion leaks.

This is not uncommon in the automotive repair industry.

I asked Mr. [redacted] should I do a compression check ( engine diagnostic question ) Answer these type engines never have compression issues.

IMS bearing remove and replace to prevent an engine catastrophic failure , an internal engine issue.

Clearly I'm interested in extending the life of the engine (primarily).

Is a cost estimated at $7100.00 enough for you to offer your knowledge of the relatively simple and inexpensive Floral Carbon Test that would indicate a serious problem with the engine block necessary? My guess would be yes. Because the customer might not know about it. That is why your professional knowledge and service exists. Otherwise a customer might authorize the Labor and parts aimed at extending the life of the high mileage car engine unknowingly throwing away almost all of that money.

My research has informed me that 100 floral carbons (gases escaping from the engine cylinder - to the coolant chambers) out of a million is a ruined engine. I can't see how that in your mind would be obvious. Yes, if your statement (Mr. [redacted]) was to say oil itself was in the coolant then sure that would be obvious.

Am I to understand that you did this common floral carbon test because it wasn't on the invoice.

In your defense statements you indicated that you had no knowledge of the cars history and one would have to tear the engine down to know of engine coolant mixture. Are you indicating that your unaware of the both chemical test and/or the floral carbon measuring capability there for could not offer this diagnostic.

Was the amount of money too low to concern invoking your sense of ethical responsibility to inform me of the Floral Carbon mixture test?

Yes, of course I'm having trouble allowing more customers this fate as it can easily be prevented. I work very hard for my money just like you guys.

There nothing obvious about the demise of high mileage engines at the onset of escaping gases or oil seeping into the coolant - so I now know.

The coolant reservoir vapors would have told us NOT to go forward with expensive repairs - which isn't very profitable.

Thanks for the lack of information. Learning what questions to ask when speaking with professionals like you.

I think that half of the money I spent to learn this question is fair. Please feel free to inform your customers with similar situations.

Now I'm trying to find out why or if the Law protects you from omitting professional information. [redacted]

Business

Response:

I apologize, I believe we had a bit of confusion with regards to what you stated actually happened with the engine to require a tear-down inspection. Mr. [redacted]'s first statement said that the engine was mixing coolant and oil. It appears as if he may have meant that the engine began mixing exhaust gases and coolant. I understand and am empathetic towards Mr. [redacted]'s frustration but please keep in mind a few facts. Firstly, a exhaust / cooling system intermix condition would not affect engine compression to a discernible amount. My statement to Mr. [redacted] regarding engine compression was accurate. If a particular cylinder had low engine compression that cylinder would be misfiring, creating a poor running condition. This was not the case as the vehicle was running well both before and after our services. Secondly, a exhaust gas cooling system test would never be performed routinely unless there was a reason to suspect such a condition. There are literally dozens of different test that can be performed on an engine to determine possible problems (compression, cylinder leak down, exhaust gas combustion leak test, crankshaft end play test, metal inspection, cylinder power balance, specific fuel consumption, etc..). Point being, unless there is a reason to suspect a condition then non of these tests would be performed. For example, if a medical patient visits a doctor for yearly physical the doctor does not out of the blue order a brain scan to check for cancer. Even if said patient asked the doctor to evaluate their overall health, a doctor could and would never perform every diagnostic test in existence. When the vehicle was brought into Autobahn West, Mr. [redacted] did not state the engine had ever been over heated nor did he inform us of any symptoms which may have been attributed to exhaust/ coolant mixture. Additionally, at the time we performed Mr. [redacted]'s requested services no symptoms of exhaust / coolant intermix were present (the vehicle did not have white smoke coming from the tailpipe, it did not have any coolant fouled spark plugs, and did not run rough for a few seconds after being started). This indicates a high likelihood that an engine problem (unrelated to services Autobahn West performed) occurred after the vehicle left Autobahn West, and furthermore fortifies the fact that there was no way to determine any specific exhaust gas test was needed at the time.

Lastly, I believe it is important to remember that Autobahn West was completely unaware of a problem with Mr. [redacted]'s vehicle until this complaint was filed. He did not contact me ([redacted]) during the experience and we at Autobahn West were not given any opportunity to inspect or repair any problem associated with exhaust gas/ coolant mixture.

Again, we at Autobahn West are very empathic towards Mr. [redacted]'s situation but the facts remain that we acted in a professional manner and cannot, and should not be held responsible for an unfortunate event that was beyond our control.