Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and since Bandago and I are now in direct communication regarding this event there is no need to continue to complaint here [redacted]
Mr. [redacted]'s desired settlement is "a simple admission of guilt". Obviously we admit to charging Mr. [redacted]'s card, there's no dispute about that. "Guilt" however implies wrongdoing. I have investigated this argument, and I respectfully and in good faith do not find any evidence of wrongdoing. The...
question I think Mr. [redacted] is asking, and which he has not received a satisfactory answer to, is are we behaving in an ethical manner? Mr. [redacted] argues our contract says "no where that they are able to charge any amount of money I do not expressly authorize to any card of mine they have on file". This is a testable argument, so let's break it down: 1. Is there damage? The contract requires the vehicle be returned in the same condition it was at the start of the rental. Mr. [redacted] acknowledges there was damage, and he accepts responsibility for causing it. I appreciate Mr. [redacted]'s honesty in this regard, and it saves us the trouble of an extensive debate on the subject (which is not always the case). So the answer to this question, by mutual agreement, is Yes. 2. Who determines what it will cost to repair the damage? Mr. [redacted]'s argument implies that, by contract, the cost to repair the damage must be mutually agreed upon before any payments are made. This is not the case: our contract expressly states the following: (3). Return of Vehicle. The vehicle shall be returned to Bandago at the time and date specified on Page One of this agreement, in the same condition as when received, ordinary wear and tear expected. The Customer will be charged for any cleaning or repair costs necessary to return the vehicle to the required condition. The determination as to the condition of the vehicle shall be made solely by Bandago. … (10). Damage to the vehicle. Except as provided elsewhere in the Agreement, the Customer is responsible for the full value of loss damage to the vehicle. This includes, but is not limited to, loss of use (regardless of fleet utilization), as well as tow fees, impound fees, storage costs, diminishment of value and administrative fees as determined by Bandago. Mr. [redacted] might be thinking "this is an onerous condition, and unreasonable!" However this is in fact boilerplate language that every vehicle rental company in the world has on their contract. Whether it's Enterprise, Hertz, Avis, or the independent rental company down the street, this is always a contract condition in some form or another. The primary reason for this is that repairs cost what they cost, and it is a normal and human reaction for customers to feel that they cost too much. If rental companies had to have an extended debate and negotiation with every customer over how much every repair should cost it would be impossible to get anything else done. So then Mr. [redacted] might be thinking, "well if the cost is solely determined by the rental company then what constraints exists to keep them from gouging the customer unfairly"? Mr. [redacted] might be surprised to learn that there are significant and numerous constraints: A. State laws: - Auto repair and Body shops are regulated and state licensed businesses. Their charges are subject to review, and they can lose their license if they engage in any funny business. Car rental companies have more experience with repairs than just about anybody, so if a shop does something shady, it stands out pretty quickly. - By law in California (where we are headquartered) we cannot charge the customer any more for repairs than what we actually paid out of pocket. So if a repair shop gives us a volume discount or any other kind of reward or incentive, we have to, by law, pass that discount on to the customer. Zero markup is the law. We adhere to this law everywhere we operate. B. Simple Economics: - We are often stuck with the bill if the customer disappears and the amount is too low to recover from an insurance company, or if the insurance company declines coverage and the customer does not have the resources to pay the bill. Even if we do get reimbursed, payment might not come for many months, and sometimes years. So on every repair we are doing everything we can to use our volume as leverage to get the cost of repair as low as possible. Unrecouped damage is a six figure expense for Bandago, so we take this very seriously and we negotiate shop rates, parts rates, and set up national accounts with pre-negotiated terms in an effort to keep these out-of-pocket costs down. As just one example: if Mr. [redacted] tried to get this mirror fixed on his own I would expect him to pay somewhere closer to $350. C. Reputation: - In this day and age when anyone can complain to countless agencies, review sites, and complaint forums with a simple click of the button you are playing with fire if you behave in an unethical manner. We take our reputation very seriously. The length of this response over a $183 charge would be one indication of that. D. Ethics: - Some companies actually care about doing the right thing out of sheer principle. We are one of them. Now in addition to repair expenses there are obviously other expenses. For example we have administrative expenses processing the claim: someone has to gather all the documents, compile them, marshall the vehicle through the repair process, catch a cab back after dropping it off at the shop, spend time explaining all of this to the customer, etc. If the damage is severe there may be other expenses: tow trucks, impound fees, storage fees, or lost revenue because rentals had to be cancelled due to the vehicle being unavailable. These expenses are typically regulated by law as well. When a claim is over $150 we turn it over to a claims processing company, Purco, that we have contracted with. Managing claims is a laborious and time consuming process. We want to focus on renting vans, not managing damage claims. Typically Purco will charge an admin fee, and collect on loss of use or any fees owed. No one works for free. So we don't send small claims over as Purco's fees wind up adding significantly to the bill as a percentage of the total. In Mr. [redacted]'s case however, even though his claim was over over $150, we handled it in-house. We didn't charge an admin fee, or loss of use, even though both are permissible under New Jersey law. We simply billed him for what the shop charged us. The money we spent on employee labor and transportation costs shuttling the vehicle (fuel) and employees (cabs, buses, etc) to and from the shop was absorbed by us as a courtesy to Mr. [redacted]. Other rental companies, like Hertz or Enterprise would have charged him an admin fee without so much as a second thought. So the answer to #2 (by contract who determines what it will cost?: Bandago does. 3. Does the customer expressly authorize Bandago to charge the card on file for damage? Mr. [redacted] questions whether the contract permits us to charge his card for damage. The contract language is unequivocal: (3). Return of Vehicle. The vehicle shall be returned to Bandago at the time and date specified on Page One of this agreement, in the same condition as when received, ordinary wear and tear expected. The Customer will be charged for any cleaning or repair costs necessary to return the vehicle to the required condition. ... (12). Credit Charges. The Customer will pay all charges due under this Agreement upon demand. All charges are subject to a final audit by Bandago and if any error is found, either party shall promptly pay or credit the other, as appropriate, to correct the error. The Customer expressly authorizes Bandago to process a credit card voucher, if applicable, in Customer’s name, for any and all charges due under the Agreement. If car rental companies had to obtain permission from the customer after damage had occurred many customers would simply refuse to provide it. Accordingly all car rental companies obtain that permission in advance, before the rental, as a condition and requirement for releasing the vehicle to them. Otherwise it would become prohibitively expensive to rent cars, as every customer would have to help subsidize the expenses incurred by the small number of customers who damage the vehicle. So the answer to #3 is Yes, the contract expressly authorizes us to charge the customer's card for damage. Now, setting all this aside, we go WAY out of our way to let clients know about damage when it is discovered, what will happen next, and are completely transparent about any charges that may be incurred. We are faster, clearer, and a 1000x more transparent than any other vehicle company I am aware of. In Mr. [redacted]'s case we sent an invoice out on January 7th. Mr. [redacted] had an opportunity to review that bill and let us know if he wanted to pay by a different method or bring up any disputes if he had them. The invoice provides instructions for paying by check, cash, wire transfer, paypal, gold bullion, and he could even pay it directly online if he liked using whatever card he wanted. We did not receive any response from him at all, and after over a week had passed we charged the card on file on January 18th. It's fairly common for people to be busy and not have time to respond, and I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of our customers assume we are going to charge the card on file. That is the whole point of putting their credit card down for the rental in the first place. HOWEVER even in the rare and exceptional case where a customer does not respond, the card on file gets charged, and then the customer realizes they would like a different card to be charged, or pay by a different method, EVEN THEN we are willing to work with the customer and will refund the card in question provided we can get payment by whatever method is convenient for that customer. In other words, we're good people. Damage is never fun, but we really do care about doing everything we can to make the process transparent and seamless. In Mr. [redacted]'s case I don't see any evidence that we diverged from our standard approach, which I have outlined above. I can't think of anything I haven't explained in as detailed a manner as I can, but if Mr. [redacted] has any remaining questions after reading this he is welcome to call me, and it would be my pleasure to speak with him. I can be reached at [redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and since Bandago and I are now in direct communication regarding this event there is no need to continue to complaint here.
[redacted]
Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and since Bandago and I are now in direct communication regarding this event there is no need to continue to complaint here [redacted]
Mr. [redacted]'s desired settlement is "a simple admission of guilt". Obviously we admit to charging Mr. [redacted]'s card, there's no dispute about that. "Guilt" however implies wrongdoing. I have investigated this argument, and I respectfully and in good faith do not find any evidence of wrongdoing. The...
question I think Mr. [redacted] is asking, and which he has not received a satisfactory answer to, is are we behaving in an ethical manner? Mr. [redacted] argues our contract says "no where that they are able to charge any amount of money I do not expressly authorize to any card of mine they have on file". This is a testable argument, so let's break it down: 1. Is there damage? The contract requires the vehicle be returned in the same condition it was at the start of the rental. Mr. [redacted] acknowledges there was damage, and he accepts responsibility for causing it. I appreciate Mr. [redacted]'s honesty in this regard, and it saves us the trouble of an extensive debate on the subject (which is not always the case). So the answer to this question, by mutual agreement, is Yes. 2. Who determines what it will cost to repair the damage? Mr. [redacted]'s argument implies that, by contract, the cost to repair the damage must be mutually agreed upon before any payments are made. This is not the case: our contract expressly states the following: (3). Return of Vehicle. The vehicle shall be returned to Bandago at the time and date specified on Page One of this agreement, in the same condition as when received, ordinary wear and tear expected. The Customer will be charged for any cleaning or repair costs necessary to return the vehicle to the required condition. The determination as to the condition of the vehicle shall be made solely by Bandago. … (10). Damage to the vehicle. Except as provided elsewhere in the Agreement, the Customer is responsible for the full value of loss damage to the vehicle. This includes, but is not limited to, loss of use (regardless of fleet utilization), as well as tow fees, impound fees, storage costs, diminishment of value and administrative fees as determined by Bandago. Mr. [redacted] might be thinking "this is an onerous condition, and unreasonable!" However this is in fact boilerplate language that every vehicle rental company in the world has on their contract. Whether it's Enterprise, Hertz, Avis, or the independent rental company down the street, this is always a contract condition in some form or another. The primary reason for this is that repairs cost what they cost, and it is a normal and human reaction for customers to feel that they cost too much. If rental companies had to have an extended debate and negotiation with every customer over how much every repair should cost it would be impossible to get anything else done. So then Mr. [redacted] might be thinking, "well if the cost is solely determined by the rental company then what constraints exists to keep them from gouging the customer unfairly"? Mr. [redacted] might be surprised to learn that there are significant and numerous constraints: A. State laws: - Auto repair and Body shops are regulated and state licensed businesses. Their charges are subject to review, and they can lose their license if they engage in any funny business. Car rental companies have more experience with repairs than just about anybody, so if a shop does something shady, it stands out pretty quickly. - By law in California (where we are headquartered) we cannot charge the customer any more for repairs than what we actually paid out of pocket. So if a repair shop gives us a volume discount or any other kind of reward or incentive, we have to, by law, pass that discount on to the customer. Zero markup is the law. We adhere to this law everywhere we operate. B. Simple Economics: - We are often stuck with the bill if the customer disappears and the amount is too low to recover from an insurance company, or if the insurance company declines coverage and the customer does not have the resources to pay the bill. Even if we do get reimbursed, payment might not come for many months, and sometimes years. So on every repair we are doing everything we can to use our volume as leverage to get the cost of repair as low as possible. Unrecouped damage is a six figure expense for Bandago, so we take this very seriously and we negotiate shop rates, parts rates, and set up national accounts with pre-negotiated terms in an effort to keep these out-of-pocket costs down. As just one example: if Mr. [redacted] tried to get this mirror fixed on his own I would expect him to pay somewhere closer to $350. C. Reputation: - In this day and age when anyone can complain to countless agencies, review sites, and complaint forums with a simple click of the button you are playing with fire if you behave in an unethical manner. We take our reputation very seriously. The length of this response over a $183 charge would be one indication of that. D. Ethics: - Some companies actually care about doing the right thing out of sheer principle. We are one of them. Now in addition to repair expenses there are obviously other expenses. For example we have administrative expenses processing the claim: someone has to gather all the documents, compile them, marshall the vehicle through the repair process, catch a cab back after dropping it off at the shop, spend time explaining all of this to the customer, etc. If the damage is severe there may be other expenses: tow trucks, impound fees, storage fees, or lost revenue because rentals had to be cancelled due to the vehicle being unavailable. These expenses are typically regulated by law as well. When a claim is over $150 we turn it over to a claims processing company, Purco, that we have contracted with. Managing claims is a laborious and time consuming process. We want to focus on renting vans, not managing damage claims. Typically Purco will charge an admin fee, and collect on loss of use or any fees owed. No one works for free. So we don't send small claims over as Purco's fees wind up adding significantly to the bill as a percentage of the total. In Mr. [redacted]'s case however, even though his claim was over over $150, we handled it in-house. We didn't charge an admin fee, or loss of use, even though both are permissible under New Jersey law. We simply billed him for what the shop charged us. The money we spent on employee labor and transportation costs shuttling the vehicle (fuel) and employees (cabs, buses, etc) to and from the shop was absorbed by us as a courtesy to Mr. [redacted]. Other rental companies, like Hertz or Enterprise would have charged him an admin fee without so much as a second thought. So the answer to #2 (by contract who determines what it will cost?: Bandago does. 3. Does the customer expressly authorize Bandago to charge the card on file for damage? Mr. [redacted] questions whether the contract permits us to charge his card for damage. The contract language is unequivocal: (3). Return of Vehicle. The vehicle shall be returned to Bandago at the time and date specified on Page One of this agreement, in the same condition as when received, ordinary wear and tear expected. The Customer will be charged for any cleaning or repair costs necessary to return the vehicle to the required condition. ... (12). Credit Charges. The Customer will pay all charges due under this Agreement upon demand. All charges are subject to a final audit by Bandago and if any error is found, either party shall promptly pay or credit the other, as appropriate, to correct the error. The Customer expressly authorizes Bandago to process a credit card voucher, if applicable, in Customer’s name, for any and all charges due under the Agreement. If car rental companies had to obtain permission from the customer after damage had occurred many customers would simply refuse to provide it. Accordingly all car rental companies obtain that permission in advance, before the rental, as a condition and requirement for releasing the vehicle to them. Otherwise it would become prohibitively expensive to rent cars, as every customer would have to help subsidize the expenses incurred by the small number of customers who damage the vehicle. So the answer to #3 is Yes, the contract expressly authorizes us to charge the customer's card for damage. Now, setting all this aside, we go WAY out of our way to let clients know about damage when it is discovered, what will happen next, and are completely transparent about any charges that may be incurred. We are faster, clearer, and a 1000x more transparent than any other vehicle company I am aware of. In Mr. [redacted]'s case we sent an invoice out on January 7th. Mr. [redacted] had an opportunity to review that bill and let us know if he wanted to pay by a different method or bring up any disputes if he had them. The invoice provides instructions for paying by check, cash, wire transfer, paypal, gold bullion, and he could even pay it directly online if he liked using whatever card he wanted. We did not receive any response from him at all, and after over a week had passed we charged the card on file on January 18th. It's fairly common for people to be busy and not have time to respond, and I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of our customers assume we are going to charge the card on file. That is the whole point of putting their credit card down for the rental in the first place. HOWEVER even in the rare and exceptional case where a customer does not respond, the card on file gets charged, and then the customer realizes they would like a different card to be charged, or pay by a different method, EVEN THEN we are willing to work with the customer and will refund the card in question provided we can get payment by whatever method is convenient for that customer. In other words, we're good people. Damage is never fun, but we really do care about doing everything we can to make the process transparent and seamless. In Mr. [redacted]'s case I don't see any evidence that we diverged from our standard approach, which I have outlined above. I can't think of anything I haven't explained in as detailed a manner as I can, but if Mr. [redacted] has any remaining questions after reading this he is welcome to call me, and it would be my pleasure to speak with him. I can be reached at [redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and since Bandago and I are now in direct communication regarding this event there is no need to continue to complaint here.
[redacted]