Baraboo Motors Group, Inc.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, we would like to know your view on the matter.]
Regards,
[redacted] Hello, there are numerous reasons why this does not resolve my complaint. 1) I paid $50,000 for this truck, specifically so that I would not have transmission problems, or any other problems. 2) I was told by [redacted] that Baraboo Motors would contact me about the transmission and would replace or repair the transmission, once he knew what the Issue was. As a consumer, I have no control over who works at Baraboo Motors. If [redacted] failed to pass this Information on to the new Service Manager, It should not excuse Baraboo Motors from being responsible for repairs. 3) I did make attempts to contact Baraboo Motors to see if a fix was available. again, It should not matter If [redacted] was working there or not. I referenced [redacted]s name because he was the person I had originally dealt with. It is also Important to say that Star On Line said they were Investigating A Cause. [redacted] assured me Baraboo Motors would contact me when they knew how to repair the transmission.4) In the reply from Baraboo Motors, It says that Baraboo Motors Is an Independently owned dealership and they do not specifically warranty the vehicle or components, that would be the responsibility of the Chrysler Corporate offices. This doesn't make sense with what the reply previous to that. Further above In the reply from Baraboo Motors, it says that I requested assistance from Chrysler for the repairs. (which I did, because that Is exactly what Baraboo Motors told me to do) Once I contacted Chrysler and explained my situation, Chrysler put me on hold for over 20 minutes so they could call Baraboo Motors. The reply states that [redacted] took that call. I'm not sure who [redacted] Is, but this seems like it would be someone who may not have all the Information about my truck. I did not talk to [redacted] when I went to Baraboo Motors on 2-17-2016. Further more, this goes against the statement about Baraboo Motors not specifically warrantying vehicles or components. Why else would Chrysler directly contact Baraboo Motors about my situation?5) This Is not simply about warranty work either. When a customer Is told by a dealership that the dealership will contact them when they know how to fix the problem and the dealership fails to do so, they are responsible. The dealership put this In writing, that they were Investigating the problem. Now there Is an $11,000 plus repair bill and no one wants anything to do with it. They are over charging for the transmission too. Baraboo Motors quoted me $7,848.50 for a reman transmission. I went to another Chrysler dealership and was quoted $5500 for the same transmission. 6) I do have copies of the paperwork from Baraboo Motors and will be mailing them to the Revdex.com.

Note:The previous followup and this followup letter were both sent by [redacted], I am also the person who spoke with [redacted] at the counter the day he was here.  I am also the one who relayed the information to [redacted] when Chrysler called her to ask specific information about the repair.  Chrysler protocol would require them to ask for the Service Manager, which is [redacted]'s job responsibility.  She happened to be on a day off the day the truck came in on Feb 17th.  Chrysler's normal protocol would be to place the customer on hold, and call the servicing dealer to verify the concern and to fill in any blanks they may have about the vehicle in question. Based on the notes from the technician on repair order 150154, his research indicted that Engineering was investigating a few concerns about driveline noises.  Simply telling us to not replace parts did not mean they didn't know what the fix was. It could have  indicated they were close to releasing a service bulletin with repair procedures,  or could have simply meant that the noise in question is normal and needed no repair.  They do see dealers that slap thousands of dollars in parts in a vehicle trying to fix a "normal" noise.  The dealers are not privy to the reasoning behind this.  I did look today, and there was never a service bulletin released to specifically address a transmission repair for this particular transmission.  There is a service bulletin that came out to address certain concerns with shifting, but it is only a software update to the transmission control module and doesn't appear to be directly related to the original concern.  So with that said, there was never an update sent to Baraboo Motors from Chrysler.As far as the transmission price goes, there are alternatives to the quote we gave that day. Since we were trying to get assistance from Chrysler, we were not eligible to install the less expensive remanufactured transmission.  We are required to use the transmission that we priced out if Chrysler were to be involved.  Now that we are aware there is no goodwill being offered from Chrysler, we do have a transmission that is less expensive, around $$6400 plus fluids and labor to install, plus the trans cooler/radiator that we also recommended. Lastly, I did attempt to get assistance again today from Chrysler.  I was told the same thing as I was told months ago, that the failure occurred outside of their 100,000 mile powertrain warranty and could not offer out of warranty assistance at this [redacted]e.

Review: Our engine blew while we were in Wisconsin Dells and this is the place that our Warrany company authorized us to bring it to.

We found out that we needed a new engine and there was one bought through Cousinea Auto Inc. In the process of putting the engine in Baraboo Motors found that the the water pump had a leak. They did not contact us ti takj ti use about this adn they did not change the water pump. We only found out about this after reading the notes in the bill. Now we are looking at a $400.00 bill to put a new water pump in and this should not have happened if they would have just exchanged it before they put new/used engine in.

We also got charged tax on a deductible that should never have been added since it was a Deductible. The tax was added in to the Final bill and we were just responsible for the $200.00 out of the $4890.58. Also they billed the Warranty company for the used engine /core which was $300 and then returned the old engine for the $300.00. Baraboo Motors should not have benefited from getting the $300 twice.

Baraboo Motors will not give us any documentation on the 6month warranty that was purchased with the engine. We would like to get that information as soon as possible.Desired Settlement: I would like Baraboo Motors to pay for the water pump to be put in since by there negligence we are having to put money into this vehicle with the 2 days of picking it up. And for them to also refund the money that they over charged us in regard to the deductible.

Business

Response:

To whom it may concern

During the approval process from the customer's extended warranty contract, the service contract company initially only approved the price of the engine and the labor to install the engine, then we were to call back with any additional add-on parts required in the engine swapping process with a final total to be authorized/approved. While the engine was being installed, the tech noted a trail from a previous coolant leak at the water pump weep hole of the replacement engine. I contacted the engine supplier to inform them of the findings, but we wanted to run the engine to see if everything else was needed on the used engine in case there might be deeper issues with the used part. The contact person, [redacted], asked if we had installed a new water pump during the install. I informed him we had not, and his email reply was "We expect you to put a new water pump on any engine we sell, it’s part of the installation process from our point of view." But that expectation/requirement to install a new pump was never conveyed to us during the selling process, nor is it in writing on any of the selling receipts. A "point of view" is just that, an opinion. Not a requirement.

Meanwhile, the engine was started and allowed to reach operating temperature, and it did not display any signs of new leakage. I contacted the customer's service contract company, spoke with [redacted], told him of our findings. He checked with his supervisor, and they determined that since it is not currently leaking, they would not cover the costs to replace the water pump as a preventative measure. He said we could recheck it in the morning and see if it was leaking, then we could reevaluate the replacement at that time. The tech rechecked it the next morning after it cooled overnight, and there were no new leaks from the water pump. I called with our final total and was given the approval to submit for credit card payment from the contract company.

The contract company paid their portion of the repairs by credit card, a total of $4415.62, approved by [redacted]. The contract company is exempt from paying sales tax in Wisconsin, and since we do not sell this particular brand of contract, our dealership computer system calculates the entire bill as taxable, since the customer is ultimately responsible for repairs, which is why the total of the actual bill came to $4890.58 as stated by the customer.

At ths point we are required to manually calculate the totals, so the customer portion of the bill was actually the required deductible amount of $200 plus tax, a total of $211. The customer is required to pay sales tax on an extended service contract deductible in the state of Wisconsin, and I have attached a PDF of the Wisconsin sales tax guidelines. It is on page 23, about half way down the page in the left column. It states "Receipts from a customer for a deductible or co-payment for repair parts or services performed to satisfy a claim under a vehicle manufacturer warranty, extended warranty, or service contract are subject to Wisconsin sales or use tax". Earlier this week, the customer called us to ask why they were charged $211 instead of $200. We informed the customer that was due to $11 in state/local taxes on that $200 amount. In my absence earlier this week, my Service Advisor made the decision to refund the customer $11 as a goodwill gesture. The customer's credit card was then refunded the $11.

The customer has made reference to us charging the core cost of $300 to her contract company. Our business is a retail business, which means we do not sell parts at the price we paid for them. They are sold at a retail price. When we originally quoted the customer's service contract company what a used engine and labor would cost, it was with an engine from a different supplier. After much deliberation between the customer and the contract company, the contract company agreed to install an engine in the customer's vehicle.

However, our original supplier no longer had an engine available with the requested/required mileage. So the customer made the call to [redacted], and they quoted her a price for the engine. [redacted] from [redacted] then called me and said he was contacted by the customer, told me he had a used engine availble, and they offered it to us at the same price he had quoted the customer. The cost for us to purchase from [redacted] was greater than what our purchase price was from our original supplier. The customer's contract company requested a longer warranty, which [redacted] was able to offer but it would increased our purchase price of the engine. With all this new pricing information, I then calculated the new RETAIL price of $3200 for the used engine and contacted the customer's contract company to which they agreed to pay that amount.

As is common in automotive part purchases, many parts suppliers require us to return the customer's old part to the part supplier so they can recycle/remanufacture/rebuild the part. They charge us an up front core charge and then credit us back once they receive the part back. In this case, we paid the original part price plus $100 to ship it here, which is what the customer was also quoted. [redacted]'s then added on an additional $100 to our purchase price to cover the return freight to send the engine back, then added on the $300 core charge. So we have an initial investment of the part price with shipping, plus an additional $400 that was charged to our store credit card. This purchase is now subject to interest fees from our credit card company, adding to the procurement cost of the part. So in the end, after we are credited back our core charge (assuming we actually do get our core charge back), we still have a part cost/procurement price, and we also have a retail price, which is what the customer's service contract paid.

I contacted [redacted] at [redacted]. to get a detailed copy of their engine warranty. They only have a standard receipt that shows the approximate mileage of the vehicle the used engine came out of, and the warranty term they offer on the part. I have received an updated copy of this bill, and will forward the copy to the customer.

Lastly, this morning, I contacted the customer's service contract company, spoke with [redacted]. I asked him what the customer should do since the customer has told us the water pump is now leaking and she is already back home 3 hours away from us. He said his advice would be to inform her to take her vehicle back to a shop in her home area, have them inspect it, and call in with the findings. If the water pump is leaking, they would most likely approve the water pump replacement and consider waiving the customer's deductible amount. I then called the customer back and left a message on her voice mail about this response.

Sincerely,

Review: In May of 2014 I purchased a 2013 Ram 3500 dually from Baraboo Motors. I paid around $50,000 for this truck. When the truck had around 40,000 miles on it, I began to notice the transmission making a noise when it would shift from 3rd gear into 4th gear. This noise was definetly coming from directly under the center of the truck, which meant it was Inside the transmission. This was very concerning to me, so I made an appointment with the Service Department at Baraboo Motors to have this fixed. The truck was still under warranty at the this [redacted]e. When I took the truck In to have it looked at, they had a Mechanic go for a ride with me and he was able to hear the noise. When we returned to the dealership, the mechanic put the truck on the lift and did an external Inspection. He was not able to find anything wrong, externally. They also called Ram directly and used the Star System to gain more knowledge about this issue. After they talked to Ram and used the Star System, the Service Manager, [redacted], told me that Ram was aware of an Issue with that specific transmission but did not know what the repair was yet. [redacted] told me to continue driving the truck and Baraboo Motors would be In touch with me once they determined how to repair the isssue with the transmission. As [redacted]e went on, I made numerous phone calls to [redacted] at Baraboo Motors to see if any new Information had come up. I also had taken my truck In there for other services and asked about the issue again. Each [redacted]e, I was told to continue driving the truck. At around 154,000 miles, the transmission failed, In the exact location where the problem started, between 3rd and 4th gear. I called Baraboo Motors and took the truck In. They placed a Scanner on the truck and It said that 4th gear was broke. Baraboo Motors gave me a quote of $11,000 to fix the transmission. I purchased a $50,000 truck to avoid having problems. now I am left with a broken truck and Baraboo Motors Is not willing to help me, other than for the $11,000 they quoted me to fix the transmission.Desired Settlement: I would like Baraboo Motors to repair the transmission, or work with me on getting Into a different truck, even if its of lesser value.

Business

Response:

To whom it may concernOn 09/02/14, Mr. [redacted] brought his truck in as he stated to have us diagnose a noise concern in his transmission as well as other normal maintenance items fixed. The vehicle had 44065 miles on it at that [redacted]e. Our transmission technician did take a road test with the customer, then pulled the vehicle in and put on the hoist to perform a visual inspection. He concluded the noise was in the drivetrain area, so he contacted STAR, which is Chrysler's technical resource center for technicians. Based on what our technician told them, they said they had recently heard other concerns similar to the one we were describing. They recommended not replacing any parts at this [redacted]e as they were looking into a permanent fix for this concern. The customer states we were going to be in contact with him once there was a fix available. Simplistically stated, unless the vehicle is "not driveable- in our shop for repairs", we are not notified when repairs become available. They do not give us a [redacted]e frame for a repair, and there may never be an actual repair if they determine the noise is normal or within tolerances. The point would be, the reason they would not want us to make repairs, if they determined it was a "normal noise" or the noise was consistent with others, a repair may not actually fix the concern. The customer states he made numerous calls to [redacted], but [redacted]'s last day of employment at our dealership was 10/10/14. At that point, I would have been the person answering calls at the service department, and I don't recall any subsequent calls after that repair in September. The customer states there were several visits after that, but our only record was an oil change and check engine light diagnosis on 01/26/15, with 88456 miles. There was no mention on the repair order of a transmission noise so we did not address anything at that [redacted]e. I spoke with the person that wrote up the repair order and he does not recall having a conversation with the customer about this concern, and would have written it into a job on the ticket if there were a noise concern mentioned. There were no other visits by the customer until the most recent one on 02/17/2016, and it had 151456 miles. The customer came in with a "no 4th - 6th gear" concern. The same tech that inspected on the first visit in 2014, also inspected it this [redacted]e. He determined that there was an internal failure, most likely 4th gear (due to an active code of P0734-00, active gear 4 shift incorrect ratio). At that [redacted]e, we prepared an es[redacted]ate for the customer to replace the transmission. The customer was requesting assistance from Chrysler for the repairs. At this mileage, it was beyond the dealership's ability to get "out of warranty" assistance, so the customer said he was going to call Chrysler directly. Chrysler did call us back on 2/22/16 and spoke to our service manager, [redacted]. We gave the customer the requested repair order information from previous visits. The Chrysler call center agent then spoke to the customer and the repair was declined for any goodwill assistance. I also spoke to our district manager to seek assistance on the local level vs the corporate offices, and was also denied out of warranty assistance on this repair. Baraboo Motors is an independently owned Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram dealership, and, like every other Chrysler dealership, we do not specifically warranty the vehicle or components, that would be the responsibility of the Chrysler Corporate offices. We could trade the customer out of the vehicle, but the trade in price would normally be adjusted to cover the cost of repairing the transmission. We have exhausted our avenues to get warranty coverage from Chrysler beyond the warranty limits on this component, which would have been 60 months or 100,000 miles, whichever came first.

Consumer

Response:

Review: We had the brakes on my 2005 jeep liberty replaced by Baraboo Motors a couple years ago.. It included rotors, calipers, and brake shoes. The braking system was supposed to be replaced at that time. Now we had to redo the braking system again due to the fact the rotors went bad. The person that did our brakes this time said they don't think the rotors were replaced by Baraboo Motors cause they shouldn't be as bad as they were with only a few miles on them. They had just left the old rotors on when they did the job even though we paid for new ones. We don't drive the jeep that many miles a year and are not hard on the brakes. They should have lasted longer than they did. We think that this company did not change the rotors, but only said they did. We did not ask for the old parts back at the time, trusting that they did what was expected of them. We would like some kind of reimbursement on this.Desired Settlement: We would like to be reimbursed for at least $200.00.

Business

Response:

On repair order # [redacted] dated 10/07/2009 (the company that did the repair, Baraboo Motors, no longer exists; this company is an entirely new business called Baraboo Motors Group Inc.), front and rear brake pads and rotors were replaced with ceramic brake pads. The mileage on this vehicle at the time of repair was 41,191. As of 5/20/2014, this same vehicle was in the service dept for a brake inspection and the miles were 68000. Elapsed time: 1686 days. Miles driven: 28,000+. I'm surprised that this customer is just now suspicious of the possibility in their minds that the brakes were not replaced on 5/20/2014. Wouldn't they have noticed it that day they drove it from the dealership that their brakes were in the same condition as when they brought it to the service department? This customer requested ceramic brake pads. Ceramic brake pads can cause more wear and tear on brake rotors.