B&B Muffler and Automotive Service Center

Thank you Ms [redacted] for providing some more information including an automotive technician's comments (named "***")While technically he is correct about Subarus there still is a large amount of speculation being applied to your situation including what my Service Advisor told youAs I mentioned there are a large amount of Subaru ***s who have experienced head gasket failures and share the same frustrationThe difference appears to be that they are frustrated with the vehicle, as opposed to the repair shopConcerning your A/C, you mentioned that it may have been low or overfilledIf it was low, then obviously a leak appeared that may, or may not have been present at the time of the service we providedIt looks like from the receipt you provided a original system hose was replaced due to a leakI am not sure how that is our faultAgain, and this is my final response, I respectfully decline to reimburse you for repairs requested, authorized and performed by you on your Subaru Legacy [redacted] - [redacted] B&B Muffler and Automotive

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because:Yes my vehicle is years old and as a gesture of manipulation I expected that issue would be raised With that said, my Subaru is well cared for I frequently do maintenance on my car The car only has miles Given the knowledge that B&B has full understanding that Subaru's have weak heads, Anthony should not have suggested that I drive my car, while it was overheating into the shop As a matter of fact that suggestion should never be relayed to any customer who has a car that is overheating It is common knowledge that it takes longer than fifteen minutes for a car to cool down Another questionable statement by Anthony Anyway I rebuffed Anthony's advice and called a Tow Truck Driver I did try the resealing of the car heads and it held up for months only So I was forced to go the laborious, time consuming and expensive route of redoing the heads.When the resealing of the heads failed after months I decided to allow you, ***, to know what had happened You deflected to what [redacted] used as an excuse, "that Subaru's just do this sometimes" Yes it's true they have weak heads, but, they do not get damaged unless the cooling system fails I brought this car in for an oil change and [redacted] told me it needed a new hose The hose to the radiator Then [redacted] tells me I need a new radiator My radiator was crumbling So I paid $in repairs and drove the car for a week and BAM, she overheated Water pump was not working and thermostadt was sticking intermittently Given the well known knowledge of Subaru's sensitive heads [redacted] should have checked the entire cooling system Had he done this he would have discovered the weep hole on the water pump was leaking and therefore the water pump was going out For posterity sake, let's just say that [redacted] did all he could, and as [redacted] stated checked the water pump (on the day I towed it out of your shop) and found nothing wrong Well, as you would say your shop is all about customer relations, and doesn't lie to their customers Knowing my unfortunate predicament ***, should have tried to find a working solution with me Instead he quote me "with pride" that the bill to redo my heads would be between $3,and $4,dollars Yep, "Subaru's just do this sometimes"!See Attachment where I replied to your email of January 6, I was you, ***,who didn't respond.Best Regards, [redacted] Regards, [redacted]

Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:
Regards,
*** ***
Yes my vehicle is years old and as a gesture of manipulation I expected that issue would be raised. With that said, my Subaru is well cared for. I frequently do maintenance on my car. The car only has miles. Given the knowledge that B&B has full understanding that Subaru's have weak heads, *** should not have suggested that I drive my car, while it was overheating into the shop. As a matter of fact that suggestion should never be relayed to any customer who has a car that is overheating. It is common knowledge that it takes longer than fifteen minutes for a car to cool down. Another questionable statement by ***. Anyway I rebuffed ***'s advice and called a Tow Truck Driver. I did try the resealing of the car heads and it held up for months only. So I was forced to go the laborious, time consuming and expensive route of redoing the heads.When the resealing of the heads failed after months I decided to allow you, ***, to know what had happened. You deflected to what *** used as an excuse, "that Subaru's just do this sometimes". Yes it's true they have weak heads, but, they do not get damaged unless the cooling system fails. I brought this car in for an oil change and *** told me it needed a new hose. The hose to the radiator. Then *** tells me I need a new radiator. My radiator was crumbling. So I paid $in repairs and drove the car for a week and BAM, she overheated. Water pump was not working and thermostadt was sticking intermittently. Given the well known knowledge of Subaru's sensitive heads *** should have checked the entire cooling system. Had he done this he would have discovered the weep hole on the water pump was leaking and therefore the water pump was going out. For posterity sake, let's just say that *** did all he could, and as *** stated checked the water pump (on the day I towed it out of your shop) and found nothing wrong. Well, as you would say your shop is all about customer relations, and doesn't lie to their customers. Knowing my unfortunate predicament ***, should have tried to find a working solution with me. Instead he quote me "with pride" that the bill to redo my heads would be between $3,and $4,dollars. Yep, "Subaru's just do this sometimes"!See Attachment where I replied to your email of January 6, 2015. I was you, ***,who didn't respond.Best Regards,*** ***

Thank you Ms. [redacted] for providing some more information including an automotive technician's comments (named "[redacted]"). While technically he is correct about Subarus there still is a large amount of speculation being applied to your situation including what my Service Advisor told you. As I mentioned there are a large amount of Subaru [redacted]s who have experienced head gasket failures and share the same frustration. The difference appears to be that they are frustrated with the vehicle, as opposed to the repair shop. Concerning your A/C, you mentioned that it may have been low or overfilled. If it was low, then obviously a leak appeared that may, or may not have been present at the time of the service we provided. It looks like from the receipt you provided a original system hose was replaced due to a leak. I am not sure how that is our fault. Again, and this is my final response, I respectfully decline to reimburse you for repairs requested, authorized and performed by you on your 1998 Subaru Legacy. [redacted] - [redacted] B&B Muffler and Automotive

In response to the Revdex.com complaint filed [redacted] – ID # [redacted].Vehicle:  1998 Subaru Legacy 2.5L 4 cyl engine 146,335miles on odometer m(initial visit)Known / Documented Contact:-RO # [redacted] August 23, 2014 / Vehicle came in for general service / Foundradiator tank (plastic) coming apart at...

time of authorized radiator hosereplacement / Replaced radiator & thermostat with customer authorization-RO# [redacted] September 12, 2014 / 147,573 miles on odometer (driven for 1,238miles) / Vehicle came in for overheating / Found no external coolant leaks,electric cooling fans operational, engine block test came back positive – headgasket seepage confirmed / customer declined any additional repairs – vehicletowed out-Dissatisfied  customer survey responsereceived Jan 3, 2015-Responding email sent Jan 6, 2015 / No Response from customer-Revdex.com filing received Feb 27, 2015 My Response:  Ms. [redacted],While you are entitled to voice your opinion and file this complaint, I am surprised that I have not heard from you concerning my last email dated January 6, 2015. At that time I responded to your comments and concerns over how your vehicle was handled at our repair facility back on August 22, 2014. In that email, which I have copied herein, you stated that the issue with the overheat condition was a “sticking” thermostat and “failed” water pump. I had some questions for you about that and also had some concern that even if those repairs were done at another facility, authorized by you, then there still is an issue with the head gaskets still leaking coolant intermittently into the engine cylinders. As I stated this is a known issue that is has affected thousands of Subaru [redacted]s and is clearly documented all over the internet. I also offered, in my email response to you, to reseal your engine for you at no charge as a good-faith gesture. I never heard from you. So I can only guess you paid another repair facility to have those head gaskets replaced. To-date I am still not sure of your situation other than your filing of this complaint and I am guessing that your are requesting $2500.00 from this business for such a repair. If you are asking this business to be liable for that repair I have to respectfully decline. If those repairs were done at another facility they were done with your authorization. I would have been happy to help you in getting your issue corrected. Given the age of the vehicle, 17 years old, the chemical resealing process would have been a more cost effective approach (free) if you had accepted my offer. I extended this to you not as an admission that we did anything wrong but rather as us just trying to help one of our customers through a difficult and frustrating issue on these particular vehicles. Why the head gaskets were never designed properly to last from the vehicle manufacturer is really were the frustration should be pointed. At this point I am not surewhat else can be done for you by us.  Regards – [redacted]Customer survey comments from [redacted] received (Saturday Jan 3, 2015) including my response 1-6-2015:[redacted], The last time I came to your shop for an oil change [redacted] called me and stated a hose to my radiator was soft.  I told him to change it.  He then called me back and told me my radiator was crumbling. So I had the radiator replaced $800.00.  Ipicked up my car and five days later while driving an eighty-three year old woman back from Chemotherapy, my car started to overheat.  I was three miles from her house and not willing to make her sit, sick, along side the road.  After I dropped her off I called and got [redacted] who told me to drive the car on in to the shop, knowing it was overheating!  I said I was going to tryto check the koolant and wait for a while. [redacted] told me the car could cool down in about fifteen minutes.  I knew from experience that fifteen minutes was not correct and no I did not hear him wrong. It's more like forty-five minutes, so I waited and then started to drive again.  Immediately the car overheated so I pulled over and waited for a tow.  Two and ahalf hours later the car came to your shop where [redacted] told me one of my head gaskets had warped and was now leaking. I asked [redacted] specifically, was the radiator not connected correctly? ...Was there a fan belt failure, was the water pump working or was there a thermostat failure?  I asked [redacted] several times these same questions and he told me emphatically nothing was wrong with the cooling system and that he had personally checked the water pump again.  [redacted] stated my  job for the head gaskets would be between $3,000 to $4,000 dollars.  I questioned [redacted] how could this happen?  His answer was always Subaru's just do this sometimes. It wasn't the head gaskets that failed, it was the cooling system.  I had it towed out of your shop and found out the thermostat was sticking and the water pump had failed. I think you need to have a talk with those boyz and don't let them lie to you like they lied to me!  [redacted] My Response Dated Jan 6, 2015 Thank you for taking the time to write to me. I am sorry to hear about your situation. I can fully understand your frustration. We have a lot going on here, as you know, and I try to overlook as much as possible but I am only one guy. So in the rare instance that a customer is not happy with us I first look at what occurred, check if our internal policies and procedures fail in that instance, and if so, what can be done not make sure it does not happen again. In reviewing the Customer Intake Forms and the billed out Repair Orders (RO) for your 1998 Subaru Legacy I can see that this took place back in September 2014. From what you mentioned in your closing sentences that the head gasket was not the issue and it was the water pump and cooling system thermostat causing the overheat condition. I am guessing you had these repairs done at another facility. Was the water pump impeller worn away? Also, is the car currently operating and being driven? My concern is that Subaru's have a known history of intermittent head gasket leakage. It was a design flaw with the vehicle production head gaskets which was not corrected until 2008 models. In fact if I may suggest, Google Subaru Head Gasket failure and you will see an overwhelming list of other customer that are, and have been, frustrated with this very issue. Conventional block testing (a chemical test) does not reveal the issue since the leakage of coolant into the engine combustion chamber only occurs intermittently on these types of engines. A test for checking the presence of exhaust gasses in the cooling system with an exhaust gas analyzer is the only sure method. And that test procedure needs to be done with both the engine cold and then again hot to properly complete the test. We performed both those tests at your September visit. The chemical test, done twice, was negative. The gas test was positive. We run these tests on all Subaru's to avoid a customer performing expense repairs only to find out that the issue is there. When we did you initial repairs, August 2014, those tests were negative. With that said, I share your frustration as well but in looking back through all this I am not sure we did anything wrong. If indeed you have had the water pump and cooling system thermostat replaced, then I am concerned that this cylinder head leakage may still be an issue for you. If you are still experiencing a higher than normal or intermittent overheat condition then the issue I am talking about is still present. There is one more option and that is to chemically seal the cooling system internally. The process takes a couple of days and  has about an 85% success rate. We pull the thermostat and coolant out of the engine, let it dry, add a chemical compound ealer with water, run the engine for about an hour, drain it again, let it dry open overnight and then reassemble it the next day. As I mentioned the procedure is most successful in early head gasket seepage-failure conditions. The charge on this "no-guarantee" procedure is about $420. As a gesture of good faith I would happy to perform this for you to help. In closing, I want you to know that we didn't cause your situation, and, we NEVER lie to our customers. The use of the word "lying" implies intended deceit. I can assure you we don't operate that way. If we make a mistake I will always make every attempt to make it right. No one is perfect and we are not either. The difference is how you handle it. The offer stands. Just let me know if you would like us to do that for you. I am happy to converse with you anytime. Thank you again for takingthe time to share your opinion with me.  Regards, [redacted]

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:Yes my vehicle is 17 years old and as a gesture of manipulation I expected that issue would be raised.  With that said, my Subaru is well cared for.  I frequently do maintenance on my car.  The car only has 153000 miles.  Given the knowledge that B&B has full understanding that Subaru's have weak heads,  Anthony should not have suggested that I drive my car, while it was overheating into the shop.  As a matter of fact that suggestion should never be relayed to any customer who has a car that is overheating.  It is common knowledge that it takes longer than fifteen minutes for a car to cool down.  Another questionable statement by Anthony.  Anyway I rebuffed Anthony's advice and called a Tow Truck Driver.  I did try the resealing of the car heads and it held up for 3 months only.  So I was forced to go the laborious, time consuming and expensive route of redoing the heads.When the resealing of the heads failed after 3 months I decided to allow you, [redacted], to know what had happened.  You deflected to what [redacted] used as an excuse, "that Subaru's just do this sometimes".  Yes it's true they have weak heads, but, they do not get damaged unless the cooling system fails.  I brought this car in for an oil change and [redacted] told me it needed a new hose.  The hose to the radiator.  Then [redacted] tells me I need a new radiator.  My radiator was crumbling.  So I paid $800.00 in repairs and drove the car for a week and BAM, she overheated.  Water pump was not working and thermostadt was sticking intermittently.  Given the well known knowledge of Subaru's sensitive heads [redacted] should have checked the entire cooling system.  Had he done this he would have discovered the weep hole on the water pump was leaking and therefore the water pump was going out.  For posterity sake, let's just say that [redacted] did all he could, and as [redacted] stated checked the water pump (on the day I towed it out of your shop) and found nothing wrong.  Well, as you would say your shop is all about customer relations, and doesn't lie to their customers.  Knowing my unfortunate predicament [redacted], should have tried to find a working solution with me.  Instead he quote me "with pride" that the bill to redo my heads would be between $3,500 and $4,000 dollars.  Yep, "Subaru's just do this sometimes"!See Attachment where I replied to your email of January 6, 2015.  I was you, [redacted],who didn't respond.Best Regards,[redacted]
Regards,
[redacted]

Ms. [redacted],This is the first time I am seeing your referenced email. I doubled checked my email history and cannot find this supposed communication. I have no record of receiving it. After reading this, it appears that you chose to have that head gasket repair. While your comments are interesting, I as a business [redacted] try to deal with facts rather than opinionated perception. First off, hopefully Subaru will respond to you but I doubt it. Until there are enough people willing to pursue this issue with Subaru it will be a dead issue unless it is filed as a class action suit. Even then if it is,  it will take years to unfold in the legal process. Concerning Subaru head gaskets, there is a design flaw there that is documented but the correction has never been mandated through a government body such as in a safety issue on a vehicle. Back to your situation, the facts are you came to our facility to have some general service. It led to an approved hose replacement and upon removal of the hose the original plastic radiator upper tank was found to be coming apart. A new radiator was suggested and authorized. The repairs at the time were checked and confirmed. 1,238 miles later the car comes back in on a return visit for a no charge recheck with an overheating complaint. A pressure test was done and an engine block test to check for possible coolant leaking internally into the actual engine cylinders. The pressure test was negative at the time of testing (no external leaks found) and a block test was positive. The proper suggested repair recommendation was made, the job was declined and the vehicle was towed out September 12, 2014. From there I have no other feedback then a negative Customer Survey response, dated Jan 3, 2015, and a Revdex.com complaint filing dated February 27, 2015. I still do not know what you are asking for specifically from this business or have I even seen a receipt for any work that was performed at this other repair facility or even been given the opportunity to speak with them to find out what actually occurred. We did not cause your overheating condition on your vehicle. These early Subaru head gaskets leak due to a poor manufacturing design. If we had done poor quality work it would have shown up the next day or within 50 miles of use. At the time we provided the limited services there was no issue otherwise we would have told you so. Our job is to inform our customers not hide issues that only cause problems later as it appears you are implying. If the water pump was leaking at the time we would have suggested replacing it. We don’t sell people something they don’t need. Ms. [redacted], if you had come to me and said Hey [redacted], I just don’t agree with this and really need some help on getting my vehicle back on the road I would have done everything I could have to help. But, to have to wade through the sarcastic comments, not having all the facts and then to be asked to pay for repairs at another facility (I am guessing) is just not an acceptable solution. I still am wondering where is the documentation to show the engine reseal was done that you stated and did not take (every one we have performed has been successful), where is the documentation showing that the head gasket repairs were done and also where is the  documentation about the air conditioner being overfilled? And again, if you authorized and paid for these repairs at another facility, it was a decision that you made not us. So again, what are you asking for? If it is just an apology, then you got it. I am sorry that Subaru designed, built and sold vehicles that had poor quality head gaskets. I am also sorry that you got caught in this common issue along with the thousands of other Subaru [redacted]s. I am also sorry I was not able to stop this from happening to your Subaru although I am not sure I could have. You are obviously looking for someone to point your frustration at and I am sorry that it is us. In closing, and I will restate this again, if you asking this business to pay for your head gasket repair at another repair facility, I again respectfully decline. - [redacted] & Shop Foreman

Review: I HAVE A STRING OF EMAILS WHICH EXPLAINS THE HAPPENINGS WITH MY CAR AND THE LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY OF THE [redacted]. THERE ARE SEVERAL RED FLAGS REGARDING THIS INCIDENT. THEY ARE AS FOLLOWS:

1. WHEN MY CAR STARTED OVER HEATING I CALLED [redacted] AND [redacted] AT B&B IMMEDIATELY [redacted] TOLD ME TO DRIVE MY CAR INTO THEIR SHOP WHILE IT WAS OVERHEATING. I KNEW THAT WAS NOT GOOD ADVICE SO, I HAD IT TOWED INTO THE B&B. (ROAD AID TOWING)

2. WHAT STARTED THIS WHOLE FIASCO WAS THE WEEK PREVIOUSLY I HAD MY CAR IN AT B&B FOR AN OIL CHANGE. UPON INSPECTION B&B “[redacted]” TOLD ME MY RADIATOR WAS CRUMBLING. SO I HAD THEM CHANGE THE RADIATOR AND THERMOSTAT. RADIATORS ARE A PART OF THE COOLING SYSTEM. MY BILL WAS $800.00. THROUGH MANY VERBAL CONVERSATIONS AND EMAILS, WHICH CLEARLY SHOWS [redacted] AND THE [redacted], “[redacted]” HAVING KNOWLEDGE THAT MY CAR’S ENGINE WAS SUSCEPTIBLE TO HAVING WEAK HEADS; PARTICULARLY MY MODEL OF SUBARU. ONE WOULD THINK BEING (THE MECHANIC - [redacted]) AND KNOWING THIS DE FACTO, HE WOULD BE EXTRA CAREFUL, AND CHECK THE ENTIRE COOLING SYSTEM. THIS MODEL CANNOT WITHSTAND MUCH OVERHEATING, WITHOUT CAUSING MAJOR DAMAGE.

3. WHEN I QUESTIONED [redacted] REPEATEDLY, “HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?”. ‘DID YOU CHECK THE WATER PUMP, FAN BELTS, HOSE CONNECTIONS, THERMOSTAT?’. [redacted] ASSURED ME REPEATEDLY THAT HE HAD. HIS ANSWER TO MY QUESTIONING WAS ALWAYS, “SUBARU’S DO THIS”. NO CAR DOES THIS WITHOUT THE COOLING SYSTEM FAILING.

4. THIS COULD HAVE COMPLETELY DESTROYED MY CAR, BY CRACKING THE ENGINE. MY OUT OF POCKET EXPENSE FOR REPAIRING MY HEAD GASKET LEAK WAS OVER $2,700 DOLLARS. THIS WAS PREVENTABLE.

5. [redacted] TOLD ME THAT THE CHARGE FOR THE HEAD GASKET LEAK WOULD BE BETWEEN $3,500 AND $4,000.

6. WHEN I SHOWED UP AFTER [redacted]’S DIAGNOSES, I ASKED THE SAME QUESTIONS AGAIN. AGAIN HIS MANTRA WAS “SUBARU’S DO THAT SOMETIMES”.

SO I TOLD [redacted] AND [redacted] THAT MY CAR WAS BEING TOWED OUT OF

THERE. THEY BOTH ACTED VISIBLY NERVOUS, AND OVERLY FRIENDLY

WHILE I WAITED. EACH TOWING WAS OVER TWO HOURS WAIT TIME,

BECAUSE MY CAR REQUIRES A FLAT BED.

7. I HAD ANOTHER MECHANIC FIX THE HEADS ON MY SUBARU. HE TOLD ME

THAT MY WATER PUMP HAD STOPPED WORKING AND MY THERMOSTAT WAS

NOT GOOD. THE SAME WATER PUMP THAT I HAD ASKED [redacted] ABOUT

MORE THAN ONCE, “COULD THIS BE THE CAUSE”?

8. MY CAR WITH THIS BAD WATER PUMP AND THERMOSTAT WENT STRAIGHT

FROM [redacted]’S HANDS TO MY NEW MECHANIC. WATER PUMPS ARE DESIGNED WITH WEEP HOLES TO TELL THE MECHANIC THEY ARE GOING BAD.

9. IN A STRING OF EMAILS I DECIDED IN FAIRNESS TO INFORM THE [redacted],

“[redacted]”.

HE SIMPLY SANG THE SAME MANTRA ABOUT SUBARU HEADS

AND DEFLECTED, DERAILED AND DENIED ANY WRONGDOING ON HIS

MECHANIC’S OR SHOP’S WORK.

THE FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD IN THIS CASE.

ON HIS BUSINESS CARD [redacted] BOAST ABOUT HIS COMPANY B&B, BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS.Desired Settlement: I believe there should be an apology and some form of fairness and equitable solution. We can all make mistakes but this was a serious mistake and worse when the [redacted] tried to cover it up.

Business

Response:

In response to the Revdex.com complaint filed [redacted] – ID # [redacted].Vehicle: 1998 Subaru Legacy 2.5L 4 cyl engine 146,335miles on odometer m(initial visit)Known / Documented Contact:-RO # [redacted] August 23, 2014 / Vehicle came in for general service / Foundradiator tank (plastic) coming apart at time of authorized radiator hosereplacement / Replaced radiator & thermostat with customer authorization-RO# [redacted] September 12, 2014 / 147,573 miles on odometer (driven for 1,238miles) / Vehicle came in for overheating / Found no external coolant leaks,electric cooling fans operational, engine block test came back positive – headgasket seepage confirmed / customer declined any additional repairs – vehicletowed out-Dissatisfied customer survey responsereceived Jan 3, 2015-Responding email sent Jan 6, 2015 / No Response from customer-Revdex.com filing received Feb 27, 2015 My Response: Ms. [redacted],While you are entitled to voice your opinion and file this complaint, I am surprised that I have not heard from you concerning my last email dated January 6, 2015. At that time I responded to your comments and concerns over how your vehicle was handled at our repair facility back on August 22, 2014. In that email, which I have copied herein, you stated that the issue with the overheat condition was a “sticking” thermostat and “failed” water pump. I had some questions for you about that and also had some concern that even if those repairs were done at another facility, authorized by you, then there still is an issue with the head gaskets still leaking coolant intermittently into the engine cylinders. As I stated this is a known issue that is has affected thousands of Subaru [redacted]s and is clearly documented all over the internet. I also offered, in my email response to you, to reseal your engine for you at no charge as a good-faith gesture. I never heard from you. So I can only guess you paid another repair facility to have those head gaskets replaced. To-date I am still not sure of your situation other than your filing of this complaint and I am guessing that your are requesting $2500.00 from this business for such a repair. If you are asking this business to be liable for that repair I have to respectfully decline. If those repairs were done at another facility they were done with your authorization. I would have been happy to help you in getting your issue corrected. Given the age of the vehicle, 17 years old, the chemical resealing process would have been a more cost effective approach (free) if you had accepted my offer. I extended this to you not as an admission that we did anything wrong but rather as us just trying to help one of our customers through a difficult and frustrating issue on these particular vehicles. Why the head gaskets were never designed properly to last from the vehicle manufacturer is really were the frustration should be pointed. At this point I am not surewhat else can be done for you by us. Regards – [redacted]Customer survey comments from [redacted] received (Saturday Jan 3, 2015) including my response 1-6-2015:[redacted], The last time I came to your shop for an oil change [redacted] called me and stated a hose to my radiator was soft. I told him to change it. He then called me back and told me my radiator was crumbling. So I had the radiator replaced $800.00. Ipicked up my car and five days later while driving an eighty-three year old woman back from Chemotherapy, my car started to overheat. I was three miles from her house and not willing to make her sit, sick, along side the road. After I dropped her off I called and got [redacted] who told me to drive the car on in to the shop, knowing it was overheating! I said I was going to tryto check the koolant and wait for a while. [redacted] told me the car could cool down in about fifteen minutes. I knew from experience that fifteen minutes was not correct and no I did not hear him wrong. It's more like forty-five minutes, so I waited and then started to drive again. Immediately the car overheated so I pulled over and waited for a tow. Two and ahalf hours later the car came to your shop where [redacted] told me one of my head gaskets had warped and was now leaking. I asked [redacted] specifically, was the radiator not connected correctly? ...Was there a fan belt failure, was the water pump working or was there a thermostat failure? I asked [redacted] several times these same questions and he told me emphatically nothing was wrong with the cooling system and that he had personally checked the water pump again. [redacted] stated my job for the head gaskets would be between $3,000 to $4,000 dollars. I questioned [redacted] how could this happen? His answer was always Subaru's just do this sometimes. It wasn't the head gaskets that failed, it was the cooling system. I had it towed out of your shop and found out the thermostat was sticking and the water pump had failed. I think you need to have a talk with those boyz and don't let them lie to you like they lied to me! [redacted] My Response Dated Jan 6, 2015 Thank you for taking the time to write to me. I am sorry to hear about your situation. I can fully understand your frustration. We have a lot going on here, as you know, and I try to overlook as much as possible but I am only one guy. So in the rare instance that a customer is not happy with us I first look at what occurred, check if our internal policies and procedures fail in that instance, and if so, what can be done not make sure it does not happen again. In reviewing the Customer Intake Forms and the billed out Repair Orders (RO) for your 1998 Subaru Legacy I can see that this took place back in September 2014. From what you mentioned in your closing sentences that the head gasket was not the issue and it was the water pump and cooling system thermostat causing the overheat condition. I am guessing you had these repairs done at another facility. Was the water pump impeller worn away? Also, is the car currently operating and being driven? My concern is that Subaru's have a known history of intermittent head gasket leakage. It was a design flaw with the vehicle production head gaskets which was not corrected until 2008 models. In fact if I may suggest, Google Subaru Head Gasket failure and you will see an overwhelming list of other customer that are, and have been, frustrated with this very issue. Conventional block testing (a chemical test) does not reveal the issue since the leakage of coolant into the engine combustion chamber only occurs intermittently on these types of engines. A test for checking the presence of exhaust gasses in the cooling system with an exhaust gas analyzer is the only sure method. And that test procedure needs to be done with both the engine cold and then again hot to properly complete the test. We performed both those tests at your September visit. The chemical test, done twice, was negative. The gas test was positive. We run these tests on all Subaru's to avoid a customer performing expense repairs only to find out that the issue is there. When we did you initial repairs, August 2014, those tests were negative. With that said, I share your frustration as well but in looking back through all this I am not sure we did anything wrong. If indeed you have had the water pump and cooling system thermostat replaced, then I am concerned that this cylinder head leakage may still be an issue for you. If you are still experiencing a higher than normal or intermittent overheat condition then the issue I am talking about is still present. There is one more option and that is to chemically seal the cooling system internally. The process takes a couple of days and has about an 85% success rate. We pull the thermostat and coolant out of the engine, let it dry, add a chemical compound ealer with water, run the engine for about an hour, drain it again, let it dry open overnight and then reassemble it the next day. As I mentioned the procedure is most successful in early head gasket seepage-failure conditions. The charge on this "no-guarantee" procedure is about $420. As a gesture of good faith I would happy to perform this for you to help. In closing, I want you to know that we didn't cause your situation, and, we NEVER lie to our customers. The use of the word "lying" implies intended deceit. I can assure you we don't operate that way. If we make a mistake I will always make every attempt to make it right. No one is perfect and we are not either. The difference is how you handle it. The offer stands. Just let me know if you would like us to do that for you. I am happy to converse with you anytime. Thank you again for takingthe time to share your opinion with me. Regards, [redacted]

Consumer

Response:

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:

Regards,

Yes my vehicle is 17 years old and as a gesture of manipulation I expected that issue would be raised. With that said, my Subaru is well cared for. I frequently do maintenance on my car. The car only has 153000 miles. Given the knowledge that B&B has full understanding that Subaru's have weak heads, [redacted] should not have suggested that I drive my car, while it was overheating into the shop. As a matter of fact that suggestion should never be relayed to any customer who has a car that is overheating. It is common knowledge that it takes longer than fifteen minutes for a car to cool down. Another questionable statement by [redacted]. Anyway I rebuffed [redacted]'s advice and called a Tow Truck Driver. I did try the resealing of the car heads and it held up for 3 months only. So I was forced to go the laborious, time consuming and expensive route of redoing the heads.When the resealing of the heads failed after 3 months I decided to allow you, [redacted], to know what had happened. You deflected to what [redacted] used as an excuse, "that Subaru's just do this sometimes". Yes it's true they have weak heads, but, they do not get damaged unless the cooling system fails. I brought this car in for an oil change and [redacted] told me it needed a new hose. The hose to the radiator. Then [redacted] tells me I need a new radiator. My radiator was crumbling. So I paid $800.00 in repairs and drove the car for a week and BAM, she overheated. Water pump was not working and thermostadt was sticking intermittently. Given the well known knowledge of Subaru's sensitive heads [redacted] should have checked the entire cooling system. Had he done this he would have discovered the weep hole on the water pump was leaking and therefore the water pump was going out. For posterity sake, let's just say that [redacted] did all he could, and as [redacted] stated checked the water pump (on the day I towed it out of your shop) and found nothing wrong. Well, as you would say your shop is all about customer relations, and doesn't lie to their customers. Knowing my unfortunate predicament [redacted], should have tried to find a working solution with me. Instead he quote me "with pride" that the bill to redo my heads would be between $3,500 and $4,000 dollars. Yep, "Subaru's just do this sometimes"!See Attachment where I replied to your email of January 6, 2015. I was you, [redacted],who didn't respond.Best Regards,[redacted]

Business

Response:

Ms. [redacted],This is the first time I am seeing your referenced email. I doubled checked my email history and cannot find this supposed communication. I have no record of receiving it. After reading this, it appears that you chose to have that head gasket repair. While your comments are interesting, I as a business [redacted] try to deal with facts rather than opinionated perception. First off, hopefully Subaru will respond to you but I doubt it. Until there are enough people willing to pursue this issue with Subaru it will be a dead issue unless it is filed as a class action suit. Even then if it is, it will take years to unfold in the legal process. Concerning Subaru head gaskets, there is a design flaw there that is documented but the correction has never been mandated through a government body such as in a safety issue on a vehicle. Back to your situation, the facts are you came to our facility to have some general service. It led to an approved hose replacement and upon removal of the hose the original plastic radiator upper tank was found to be coming apart. A new radiator was suggested and authorized. The repairs at the time were checked and confirmed. 1,238 miles later the car comes back in on a return visit for a no charge recheck with an overheating complaint. A pressure test was done and an engine block test to check for possible coolant leaking internally into the actual engine cylinders. The pressure test was negative at the time of testing (no external leaks found) and a block test was positive. The proper suggested repair recommendation was made, the job was declined and the vehicle was towed out September 12, 2014. From there I have no other feedback then a negative Customer Survey response, dated Jan 3, 2015, and a Revdex.com complaint filing dated February 27, 2015. I still do not know what you are asking for specifically from this business or have I even seen a receipt for any work that was performed at this other repair facility or even been given the opportunity to speak with them to find out what actually occurred. We did not cause your overheating condition on your vehicle. These early Subaru head gaskets leak due to a poor manufacturing design. If we had done poor quality work it would have shown up the next day or within 50 miles of use. At the time we provided the limited services there was no issue otherwise we would have told you so. Our job is to inform our customers not hide issues that only cause problems later as it appears you are implying. If the water pump was leaking at the time we would have suggested replacing it. We don’t sell people something they don’t need. Ms. [redacted], if you had come to me and said Hey [redacted], I just don’t agree with this and really need some help on getting my vehicle back on the road I would have done everything I could have to help. But, to have to wade through the sarcastic comments, not having all the facts and then to be asked to pay for repairs at another facility (I am guessing) is just not an acceptable solution. I still am wondering where is the documentation to show the engine reseal was done that you stated and did not take (every one we have performed has been successful), where is the documentation showing that the head gasket repairs were done and also where is the documentation about the air conditioner being overfilled? And again, if you authorized and paid for these repairs at another facility, it was a decision that you made not us. So again, what are you asking for? If it is just an apology, then you got it. I am sorry that Subaru designed, built and sold vehicles that had poor quality head gaskets. I am also sorry that you got caught in this common issue along with the thousands of other Subaru [redacted]s. I am also sorry I was not able to stop this from happening to your Subaru although I am not sure I could have. You are obviously looking for someone to point your frustration at and I am sorry that it is us. In closing, and I will restate this again, if you asking this business to pay for your head gasket repair at another repair facility, I again respectfully decline. - [redacted] & Shop Foreman

Consumer

Response:

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:Yes my vehicle is 17 years old and as a gesture of manipulation I expected that issue would be raised. With that said, my Subaru is well cared for. I frequently do maintenance on my car. The car only has 153000 miles. Given the knowledge that B&B has full understanding that Subaru's have weak heads, Anthony should not have suggested that I drive my car, while it was overheating into the shop. As a matter of fact that suggestion should never be relayed to any customer who has a car that is overheating. It is common knowledge that it takes longer than fifteen minutes for a car to cool down. Another questionable statement by Anthony. Anyway I rebuffed Anthony's advice and called a Tow Truck Driver. I did try the resealing of the car heads and it held up for 3 months only. So I was forced to go the laborious, time consuming and expensive route of redoing the heads.When the resealing of the heads failed after 3 months I decided to allow you, [redacted], to know what had happened. You deflected to what [redacted] used as an excuse, "that Subaru's just do this sometimes". Yes it's true they have weak heads, but, they do not get damaged unless the cooling system fails. I brought this car in for an oil change and [redacted] told me it needed a new hose. The hose to the radiator. Then [redacted] tells me I need a new radiator. My radiator was crumbling. So I paid $800.00 in repairs and drove the car for a week and BAM, she overheated. Water pump was not working and thermostadt was sticking intermittently. Given the well known knowledge of Subaru's sensitive heads [redacted] should have checked the entire cooling system. Had he done this he would have discovered the weep hole on the water pump was leaking and therefore the water pump was going out. For posterity sake, let's just say that [redacted] did all he could, and as [redacted] stated checked the water pump (on the day I towed it out of your shop) and found nothing wrong. Well, as you would say your shop is all about customer relations, and doesn't lie to their customers. Knowing my unfortunate predicament [redacted], should have tried to find a working solution with me. Instead he quote me "with pride" that the bill to redo my heads would be between $3,500 and $4,000 dollars. Yep, "Subaru's just do this sometimes"!See Attachment where I replied to your email of January 6, 2015. I was you, [redacted],who didn't respond.Best Regards,[redacted]

Regards,

Business

Response:

Thank you Ms. [redacted] for providing some more information including an automotive technician's comments (named "[redacted]"). While technically he is correct about Subarus there still is a large amount of speculation being applied to your situation including what my Service Advisor told you. As I mentioned there are a large amount of Subaru [redacted]s who have experienced head gasket failures and share the same frustration. The difference appears to be that they are frustrated with the vehicle, as opposed to the repair shop. Concerning your A/C, you mentioned that it may have been low or overfilled. If it was low, then obviously a leak appeared that may, or may not have been present at the time of the service we provided. It looks like from the receipt you provided a original system hose was replaced due to a leak. I am not sure how that is our fault. Again, and this is my final response, I respectfully decline to reimburse you for repairs requested, authorized and performed by you on your 1998 Subaru Legacy. [redacted] - [redacted] B&B Muffler and Automotive