BearPaw Outfitters

First I want to point out that my website does not say what Mr *** claimsNone of our clients are told that my Idaho elk hunts occur on private landAnyone who asks is told that all our Idaho hunts are on public landThe web page for the Idaho elk hunts says nothing about any private landWe most often use natural cover for blinds at water holes, however the guide carried a popup blind in his truck which the ***s did not choose to useOf course we would never set up a popup blind on public land and leave it, due to the liklihood it would be stolen. In his search to find an outfitter I think Mr *** has confused what my website says and what I told him with another outfitter's web site and what another outfitter must have told himOur web site simply does not say what Mr *** claims: http://bearpawoutfitters.com/idaho_elk_hunting.html
As a show of good faith and fairness, even though they did not purchase the guaranteed hunt, (which was an option they did not choose) I am offering a $refund to each ofthe ***s just as if they would have paid for the guaranteed huntIn return for my refund to the ***s they must agree that this refund will settle all claims against Bearpaw Outfitters and/or Dale D***, that they will not seek any negative action(s), and they will not seek any negative publicity or provide negative reviews of Bearpaw Outfitters and/or Dale D***
Best Regards,
Dale D***

Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because:
See my responses in red.
Response A1...The fully guided Idaho elk and mule deer hunt was thought to occur on a combination of private land, leased land, and public land based upon phone conversation and website. At no point was it made clear that ALL hunting is done on public land.
 
The first 3 hunts we were on, we ran into other hunters right off the bat. Then more groups of hunters rolled in so 6-10 hunters were around us (some in 4wheelers some in trucks), some talking loudly. NO deer or elk were obviously seen.
 
                Yes there are other hunters because it’s public land. But it’s simply not true that no elk were seen. 17 bulls were sighted that week by other huntsd and guides and the [redacted]s were invited to hunt the same area but they chose to tell their guide to go to a different area.
 
Response A2….We did not see or hear any elk the entire time we were there Covering over 20 miles of ground. Another group had not seen any elk and covered even more ground. They decided to road hunt for mule deer on the 3rd day! One group of hunters was seeing a few elk every morning with one shooter bull and spikes, nowhere near 17 bulls.  How many shot opportunities were there from our camp. We decided to not hunt the same group of elk as the other hunters in camp OUT OF RESPECT and 4 hunters and 2 guides would clearly be too much pressure on the elk.
 
Dales website also says they cater to limited mobility people like my self and would have ground blinds set up within a reasonable walk (We also verified this on phone). We never saw a blind set up anywhere.
 
                Please read the webpage describing our Idaho elk hunts, nothing is stated that he claims: http://bearpawoutfitters.com/idaho_elk_hunting.html
However, Matt the guide carried a popup blind in the truck the entire hunt in case it was needed. You obviously can’t set up a blind and leave it on public property or it might be stolen. We really rather prefer using natural cover to hide from wild animals.
 
Response A3.... Not true...on his website on Idaho hunts and physical condition it states," bearpaw outfitters Can accommodate hunters with physical limitations", which was also verified on numerous phone calls that there were plenty of spots. We never saw a set up on a waterhole, trail or wallow nor a blind the first several hunts till we complained and asked for a refund. Then I sat at 2 water holes and constructed my own blind and did not see an Elk or Mule deer.
 
Because of these two facts and the unsanitary living conditions (Mold, peeling paint, full fly traps and lots of living ones too, holes in the walls) in the upstairs living room/dining room/kitchen and bathroom.
 
                The house has two areas, the downstairs which has been remodeled last year and is all modern with tables set up for eating, refrigerator, a couch and chairs, all new bathrooms and all new bedrooms for the hunters and trimmed in pine. Most hunters tell us it is very nice. (see photos) The upstairs which is our private area has not been remodeled and the [redacted]s constantly came upstairs on their own choice. The other group stayed in the guest area.
 
Response A4.... The downstairs bedrooms and bathrooms had been remodeled and nothing else, see attached photos of dining room and kitchen were food was prepared and served...this wasn't a "private" areas, ""no hunters allowed", its were you watched TV and ATE on a fully guided hunt...the other hunters stayed out of there because it was a mess and went to town to eat.
 
I asked for my money back which was denied. We continued to hunt for the next two days without seeing any game and left 2 days early with frustration. My son hiked over 20 miles in that time looking for it, and other members in camp walked much more with no sign of game.
 
                Please read the terms which is posted on our website:   http://www.bearpawoutfitters.com/terms.pdf
5. REFUND & CANCELLATION POLICY: If you apply for a license but do not draw your license, or if BPO must cancel your trip, your trip may be rescheduled or the unused portion of your deposit refunded. Hunt Fee deposits and payments are non-refundable for any other reason. Trips you cancel prior to 30 days before your scheduled arrival may be rescheduled. Cancellations after that date forfeit your deposit. A trip ended by a guest before completion is considered a cancellation, all fees and further services from BPO are forfeited.
 
Response A5– Read and acknowledge the policy but does not consider the issues stated in this complaint.
 
The communication was poor from the start, with very few replies to emails, or request for references (he was busy). Our hunt deposit was not verified in written from for 10 months after multiple phone calls.
 
                Simply untrue, it was confirmed that their deposit was received and other questions were answered by email back and forth to both customers in January 2016. (I am attaching the email message.)
 
Response – A6.... NOT TOTALLY TRUE.I saved ALL e- mails and documented all calls and had email dated January 24 confirming deposit with A FEW answered questions. Never was I sent RECENT pics of archery kills or references, as requested. We didn't get statement and contract until August 27, (6 weeks prior), and first email response from Jan. 24 was June 26!
 
Website also leaves you to believe hunters take 270-330 bull elk 90% success (dale said they shoot some good ones over the phone). Upon arrival we were urged to shoot any elk or mule deer we see. one bull no cows(medium 5x5) has been taking in 10 days of hard hunting with two groups of hunters (6 in our camp)
 
                We do take bulls that size, photos are on the webpage, but of course not all bulls are that size. Smaller bulls are more common, that’s the dynamic of free range hunting verses game farm hunting like Mr. [redacted] manages in Texas.
 
 
 
 
 
Response – A7...This year success the week we were there and the week before was not even close to the advertised 90% success rate, which is not "some years 100%" if we knew success was SO LOW and hunting entirely public land this hunt obviously would have never been booked, If the lack of pre-scouted set-ups for hunters with limited mobility and living conditions were known, it would not have been booked. MAYBE if I was provided references as requested I would of learned this. No recent photos might have been a clue of the recent success. Also all ranches I manage in Texas are low fence except one and the ranch I hunt on produces one shooter every couple of years...NO GAME FARM HUNTING.
 
Food was mediocre at best as long as the flies didn't eat it first...donuts for breakfast...colt cut sandwiches every day, then average supper with tacos/burgers/chicken. For a potential hunt of a lifetime, for planning and saving for 1 ½ years, driving 20 plus hours, this hunt with Bearpaw Outfitters in SE Idaho was VERY poor. We are in hope that this letter warrants some follow up with the Outfitter and other hunters can be warned of the potential disappointment. Sincerely, [redacted] And son [redacted]
 
                Unfortunately the [redacted]s imagined many things or perhaps they confused things other outfitters told them. A sample menu is posted on my website which states we will be eating hamburgers, tacos, spaghetti, and meals like that: http://bearpawoutfitters.com/pdf/menu.pdf
 
Response – A8. The food doesn't matter, the fact that over 4 days of hunting and hiking that no elk were seen or heard by us. As well as another group of hunters and the hunting all occurred on public land with multiple run-ins daily with other hunters in morning and evening was certainly not what we were told or expected. We certainly didn't ""IMAGINE"" this hunt.
 
 
                I do offer a guaranteed hunt for $4750, if the hunter does not get a shot opportunity I refund 50% of the hunt fee. Unfortunately the [redacted] purchased the cheaper hunt for $3250 that is not guaranteed. However, as a show of good faith I am willing to give them a free upgrade to the guaranteed hunt and then refund the difference of the 50% refund of the guaranteed hunt.
 
$3250.00 Hunt Fee they paid
$2375.00 (the cost of the guaranteed hunt if no shot opportunity)
$  875.00 Hunt fee Refund to each hunter
$    52.50 Sales Tax Refund
$927.50 Refund To Each
 
Response – A9. Unfortunately we didn't spend more money on the guaranteed hunt? I'm not sure what this statement means. Is this a refund offer for this hunt or do you expect us to pay for another hunt that u will then discount???
 
Best Regards,
Dale
 
Regards,
[redacted] and son [redacted]
 
Sincerely,[redacted]

Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
 
See the attached website claims regarding public and private land hunts in Idaho.
For clarification purposes it was not made clear to [redacted] and I via e-mail and phone calls that the hunt was on public land. 
The claim that 17 bulls were seen at our camp we believe is false but the main point is we did not see or hear an Elk or Mule deer.
And I would like to say that I am not and was not confused about ANYTHING as stated.
 
Please send the check ASAP to
[redacted]
AND
[redacted]
 
Regards,
[redacted] and son [redacted]

Sorry, October is my busiest month. I tried to log in several times and the system wouldn't let me reply, as a result I sent you an email message this morning with my reply and tried calling twice, please check the voice messages I left. Here is the reply I sent:
Dear Revdex.com,
I’ve tried to login and...

reply a few times last week and this morning and the system won’t let me, so I am sending this reply by email. I will answer each of their issues below in blue:
Fully guided Idaho elk and mule deer bow hunt Sept 25-28, 2016. Bearpaw Outfitters Outfitter: Dale D[redacted] Semi Guided Archery for Elk and Mule deer SE Idaho Bearpaw website States they hunt a variety of public land/private land/and leased land. The land we hunted was all public land with no leased land or private land to hunt.
 
                We offer hunts in four states, there is a web page for each state and hunt and the Idaho Elk hunt page does not specify that it will occur on private land. http://bearpawoutfitters.com/idaho_elk_hunting.html
In fact at the bottom of the page it is stated “Operating under permits by Colville National Forest, Caribou National Forest, Idaho State Lands, and Bureau of Land Management “
 
The first 3 hunts we were on, we ran into other hunters right off the bat. Then more groups of hunters rolled in so 6-10 hunters were around us (some in 4wheelers some in trucks), some talking loudly. NO deer or elk were obviously seen.
                Yes there are other hunters because it’s public land. But it’s simply not true that no elk were seen. 17 bulls were sighted that week by other huntsd and guides and the [redacted]s were invited to hunt the same area but they chose to tell their guide to go to a different area.
 
Dales website also says they cater to limited mobility people like my self and would have ground blinds set up within a reasonable walk (We also verified this on phone). We never saw a blind set up anywhere.
                Please read the webpage describing our Idaho elk hunts, nothing is stated that he claims: http://bearpawoutfitters.com/idaho_elk_hunting.html
However, Matt the guide carried a popup blind in the truck the entire hunt in case it was needed. You obviously can’t set up a blind and leave it on public property or it might be stolen. We really rather prefer using natural cover to hide from wild animals.
 
Because of these two facts and the unsanitary living conditions (Mold, peeling paint, full fly traps and lots of living ones too, holes in the walls) in the upstairs living room/dining room/kitchen and bathroom.
                The house has two areas, the downstairs which has been remodeled last year and is all modern with tables set up for eating, refrigerator, a couch and chairs, all new bathrooms and all new bedrooms for the hunters and trimmed in pine. Most hunters tell us it is very nice. (see photos) The upstairs which is our private area has not been remodeled and the [redacted]s constantly came upstairs on their own choice. The other group stayed in the guest area.
 
I asked for my money back which was denied. We continued to hunt for the next two days without seeing any game and left 2 days early with frustration. My son hiked over 20 miles in that time looking for it, and other members in camp walked much more with no sign of game.
                Please read the terms which is posted on our website:   http://www.bearpawoutfitters.com/terms.pdf
5. REFUND & CANCELLATION POLICY: If you apply for a license but do not draw your license, or if BPO must cancel your trip, your trip may be rescheduled or the unused portion of your deposit refunded. Hunt Fee deposits and payments are non-refundable for any other reason. Trips you cancel prior to 30 days before your scheduled arrival may be rescheduled. Cancellations after that date forfeit your deposit. A trip ended by a guest before completion is considered a cancellation, all fees and further services from BPO are forfeited.
 
The communication was poor from the start, with very few replies to emails, or request for references (he was busy). Our hunt deposit was not verified in written from for 10 months after multiple phone calls.
                Simply untrue, it was confirmed that their deposit was received and other questions were answered by email back and forth to both customers in January 2016. (I am attaching the email message.)
 
Website also leaves you to believe hunters take 270-330 bull elk 90% success (dale said they shoot some good ones over the phone). Upon arrival we were urged to shoot any elk or mule deer we see. one bull no cows(medium 5x5) has been taking in 10 days of hard hunting with two groups of hunters (6 in our camp)
                We do take bulls that size, photos are on the webpage, but of course not all bulls are that size. Smaller bulls are more common, that’s the dynamic of free range hunting verses game farm hunting like Mr. [redacted] manages in Texas.
 
Food was mediocre at best as long as the flies didn't eat it first...donuts for breakfast...colt cut sandwiches every day, then average supper with tacos/burgers/chicken. For a potential hunt of a lifetime, for planning and saving for 1 ½ years, driving 20 plus hours, this hunt with Bearpaw Outfitters in SE Idaho was VERY poor. We are in hope that this letter warrants some follow up with the Outfitter and other hunters can be warned of the potential disappointment. Sincerely, [redacted] And son [redacted]
                Unfortunately the [redacted]s imagined many things or perhaps they confused things other outfitters told them. A sample menu is posted on my website which states we will be eating hamburgers, tacos, spaghetti, and meals like that: http://bearpawoutfitters.com/pdf/menu.pdf
 
                I do offer a guaranteed hunt for $4750, if the hunter does not get a shot opportunity I refund 50% of the hunt fee. Unfortunately the [redacted] purchased the cheaper hunt for $3250 that is not guaranteed. However, as a show of good faith I am willing to give them a free upgrade to the guaranteed hunt and then refund the difference of the 50% refund of the guaranteed hunt.
 
$3250.00 Hunt Fee they paid
$2375.00 (the cost of the guaranteed hunt if no shot opportunity)
$  875.00 Hunt fee Refund to each hunter
$    52.50 Sales Tax Refund
$927.50 Refund To Each
 
Best Regards,
Dale

I was fortunate enough to get to hunt with Bearpaw Outfitters for spring bear in May of 2013. [redacted] was our guide and was a true pleasure to work with. [redacted] was an amazing guide and great teacher, my seven year old son accompanied us and [redacted] taught him a ton about hunting for bears and turkey. I would highly recommend hunting with [redacted] to anyone who wants to enjoy a first rate experience. The knowledge that [redacted] and the other guides at Bearpaw have is second to none. Thanks again [redacted] for the great memories and successful spring bear hunt.

Sincerely,

[redacted] and [redacted]- Pasco, WA

I would rate BearPaw Outfitters an A++. I went on a three day Turkey hunt 5/15,16,17/2013. This is a family run business. The owner [redacted] was my guide for most of the trip. He worked very hard on my behalf. Not only did he locate Turkeys every day but when I got one on 5/16 he helped me the the staging of the bird for pictures and took me to the taxidermist. We got our second bird the next day. His wife did the cooking and the meals were very good and added to the home feeling. You are made to feel as part of the family. The separate lodging was nice and clean and I got a good nights sleep on the provided matteress for my sleeping bag. These three days of hunting were high quality and will provide me a lifetime of great memories. The rates were fair and [redacted] has the ability to take Credit Cards. He even furnished me with shells that I could not seem to locate anyplace else. I belive that anyone using [redacted]'s guide service will enjoy themselves and be treated to a first class adventure.