Beeyond the Hive

After years in the beekeeping industry we have never had a complaint about our product so I guess our winning streak has come to an end [redacted] has approached me after months of using our honey and now says he is unhappy with our product and claims that I have lied about our honey being rawI stand by our product and we are diligent with taking lot samples of each and every batch we sell and can easily prove that our honey is rawEspecially from the batch that was sold to [redacted] and his colleague [redacted] ***There are over varieties of honey and no two honeys are alike in color and flavor and it is all dependent upon where the honeybees will forage and gather their nectar fromWith each of these honey varietals the chemical makeup will most definitely vary including moisture content, sugar content, amino acid count ect [redacted] was using the honey for brewing purposes and to my understanding his batch did not turn out therefore he is blaming the fail on our honey not being rawOnce again, our honey is rawHe is located out of state so I am not sure if he not used to our [redacted] honey and the chemical makeupHe has never purchased from us before and we sell honey to breweries along with home brewers and they have never once had a complaint on our honey and it's raw characteristicsI stand behind our high quality product and I would never have an issue with accepting returned honey within a reasonable amount of timeI think we can all agree that a 30-day grace period is a reasonable amount of time and is pretty standardI am proud to say that we have never had a returned product but I find that this customer wanting a refund after four months of using our honey is unacceptable and unjustifiedI feel like this is a preposterous amount of time to pass for him to decided that our honey is inadequet for his purpose and his claims of our honey not being raw is and subjectiveHis claims of an apiarist confirming it is not raw is also subjective and especially since this beekeeper is out of state, unfamiliar with the chemical components of [redacted] wildflower honey, [redacted] 's definitions of raw honey and who is to know is credibility and longevity as an actual beekeeperI apologize for being "condescending and mocking" of his complaint but this is our fourth generation family business, our livelihood, our passion, our expertise, so I take GREAT offense when our credibility and my integrity come in to playMy defenses went up immediately with his initial voicemail and email when they came across condescending and accusing me of lying and selling him a fraudulent productI hope this accurately describes our side of the story and I will be happy to provide our lot samples and any other documentation or facts to back up our businessThank you and have a honey of a day

I am sorry for the failed batch of brew by [redacted] but I will continue to stand by our productThis is clearly he said, she said so I am not sure there is a middle groundI bring up our history in the beekeeping industry only because it shows our credibility and our expertiseOnce again, our honey is raw and I'm sorry that [redacted] does not agree and we have a difference of opinions obviouslyI find that a reasonable amount of time to bring up any concerns with our product would have been 30-days and not four monthsThe brew process is always complicated when honey is brought in as an ingredient due to honey's complex nature of yeast, bacteria, moisture content, etcThere are way too many variables in the entire brew process for [redacted] to pin point that our honey was the culpritI am not malicious or a bullyI am passionate about our product and what our family produces and after the dust settles of this complaint we will continue to produce and sell raw [redacted] honeyWe are a hard working family apiary that lives and breathes honey and bees so when my integrity is challenged I will stand up for our product and fight itNothing malicious about itWe are reasonable people and have no problem working with other reasonable customersAs I stated before, months is too much time to decide he wants to return something [redacted] says he has about 40lbs of honey leftIf it was me, I would put the rest of our high quality honey into jars and give out as Christmas giftsNot sure where to go from here reallyHe thinks our honey is not rawOur honey is rawHe purchased it months agoThe bucket is opened and we can't accept his return of the used honey

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because:This is anything but he said she said as there is a witness to the call, and any reputable apiarist who examines the honey you sent will confirm it has been heatedThis is out and out fraud I have now spoken with Apiarists across states since [redacted] feels it necessary just to impune the skill and qualifications of those in [redacted] , and even a few in [redacted] ), as well as numerous Meadmakers, including a 4th generation award wining mead maker All of them who have either examined a sample of the honey directly, or reviewed the photos and description I have provided them, have confirmed that the mead has been heated or cooked All have confirmed that Honey, any variety of it, in it's 100% natural, unheated state has a much more pale yellow coloration, and is far less fluid The Deep amber color, as well as that it is still very fluid now allegedly months after harvest, are clear indicators that the honey has been heated or cooked at some point The Apiarists in [redacted] provided additional information that I must say I find disturbing and a bit unethical to say the leastApparently in [redacted] , due to the lobbying and efforts of larger honey producers, the honey is allowed to be heated to a certain point and still called rawAdditionally, many Honey producers choose to heat the honey right to this point because it makes the honey more fluid and easier to work with, but it essentially has the same effect as cooking This not only is contradictory to the definition of Raw used by the majority of the English speaking world, it is also irrelevant as I asked Beeyond the Hive directly prior to ordering if their honey was heated, cooked, or pasteurized and was told no - a clear and obvious lie.From [redacted] raw (adj): 1) not cooked 2) being in or nearly in the natural state : not processed or purified 3)not diluted or blended Heating and cooking the Honey changes it's chemical profile - something that with [redacted] ***'s alleged experience, [redacted] is well aware As with any food, and any food containing sugars, heating the honey can alter the PH of the honey, making it unsuitable for use in certain confections, brewing, or foods Additionally, heating Honey, as with any food product containing simple and complex sugars, causes the Simple Sugars to bond and form longer complex sugar chains - which makes cooked Honey unsuited for a variety of yeasts used in brewing and fermenting certain wines and beverages These are the reasons I specifically asked about the Honey being heated or cooked I have no knowledge of what the brewers Beeyond the Hive claims to do business with are making, or what they use the honey for Liquors, wines, malted beverages, and mead all have thousands of differing recipes each and production methods - and many large commercial breweries claiming to produce mead are merely adding honey after fermentation is finished as a flavoring to other spirits (a very sore issue in the mead making community)The mead we brew, and have been brewing in small batches for family and friends for years, we pride on being carefully hand crafted over long months of fermentation (not the fast, heat fermentation that is heavily chemical dependent used by larger commercial brewers) We pride it on being 100% natural, chemical and additive free, from 100% RAW honey The recipes we use and the yeasts we use require a honey that is uncooked and unheated The product we were sold and led to believe met these standards does not, and as such we can not make these claims or sell any product we were able to salvage from this under that brand once we finalize licensing Worse, as this bulk order was to be used to produce much of the required sample product required for testing and validation by the state liquor authority, this deception by [redacted] has torpedoed our efforts and set us back by a minimum of months to a year at best.I am attaching pictures of the Honey, both in the pale, and scooped into a smaller jar, to leave little doubt over the fact it has been cooked or heated and [redacted] is an outright liar and fraudSincerely, [redacted] ***

After 108 years in the beekeeping industry we have never had a complaint about our product so I guess our winning streak has come to an end. [redacted] has approached me after 4 months of using our honey and now says he is unhappy with our product and claims that I have lied about our honey being...

raw. I stand by our product and we are diligent with taking lot samples of each and every batch we sell and can easily prove that our honey is raw. Especially from the batch that was sold to [redacted] and his colleague [redacted]. There are over 300 varieties of honey and no two honeys are alike in color and flavor and it is all dependent upon where the honeybees will forage and gather their nectar from. With each of these honey varietals the chemical makeup will most definitely vary including moisture content, sugar content, amino acid count ect. [redacted] was using the honey for brewing purposes and to my understanding his batch did not turn out therefore he is blaming the fail on our honey not being raw. Once again, our honey is raw. He is located out of state so I am not sure if he not used to our [redacted] honey and the chemical makeup. He has never purchased from us before and we sell honey to 45 breweries along with home brewers and they have never once had a complaint on our honey and it's raw characteristics. I stand behind our high quality product and I would never have an issue with accepting returned honey within a reasonable amount of time. I think we can all agree that a 30-60 day grace period is a reasonable amount of time and is pretty standard. I am proud to say that we have never had a returned product but I find that this customer wanting a refund after four months of using our honey is unacceptable and unjustified. I feel like this is a preposterous amount of time to pass for him to decided that our honey is inadequet for his purpose and his claims of our honey not being raw is false and subjective. His claims of an apiarist confirming it is not raw is also subjective and especially since this beekeeper is out of state, unfamiliar with the chemical components of [redacted] wildflower honey, [redacted]'s definitions of raw honey and who is to know is credibility and longevity as an actual beekeeper. I apologize for being "condescending and mocking" of his complaint but this is our fourth generation family business, our livelihood, our passion, our expertise, so I take GREAT offense when our credibility and my integrity come in to play. My defenses went up immediately with his initial voicemail and email when they came across condescending and accusing me of lying and selling him a fraudulent product. I hope this accurately describes our side of the story and I will be happy to provide our lot samples and any other documentation or facts to back up our business. Thank you and have a honey of a day.

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:This is anything but he said she said as there is a witness to the call, and any reputable apiarist who examines the honey you sent will confirm it has been heated.. This is out and out fraud.  I have now spoken with Apiarists across 4 states since [redacted] feels it necessary just to impune the skill and qualifications of those in [redacted], and even a few in [redacted]), as well as numerous Meadmakers, including a 4th generation award wining mead maker.  All of them who have either examined a sample of the honey directly, or reviewed the photos and description I have provided them, have confirmed that the mead has been heated or cooked.  All have confirmed that Honey, any variety of it, in it's 100% natural, unheated state has a much more pale yellow coloration, and is far less fluid.  The Deep amber color, as well as that it is still very fluid now allegedly 5 months after harvest, are clear indicators that the honey has been heated or cooked at some point.  The Apiarists in [redacted] provided additional information that I must say I find disturbing and a bit unethical to say the least. Apparently in [redacted], due to the lobbying and efforts of larger honey producers, the honey is allowed to be heated to a certain point and still called raw. Additionally, many Honey producers choose to heat the honey right to this point because it makes the honey more fluid and easier to work with, but it essentially has the same effect as cooking.  This not only is contradictory to the definition of Raw used by the majority of the English speaking world, it is also irrelevant as I asked Beeyond the Hive directly prior to ordering if their honey was heated, cooked, or pasteurized and was told no - a clear and obvious lie.From [redacted]raw (adj): 1) not cooked 2) being in or nearly in the natural state :  not processed or purified <raw fibers> <raw sewage> 3)not diluted or blended <raw spirits>    Heating and cooking the Honey changes it's chemical profile - something that with [redacted]'s alleged experience, [redacted] is well aware.  As with any food, and any food containing sugars, heating the honey can alter the PH of the honey, making it unsuitable for use in certain confections, brewing, or foods.  Additionally, heating Honey, as with any food product containing simple and complex sugars, causes the Simple Sugars to bond and form longer complex sugar chains - which makes cooked Honey unsuited for a variety of yeasts used in brewing and fermenting certain wines and beverages.  These are the reasons I specifically asked about the Honey being heated or cooked.    I have no knowledge of what the 45 brewers Beeyond the Hive claims to do business with are making, or what they use the honey for.  Liquors, wines, malted beverages, and mead all have thousands of differing recipes each and production methods - and many large commercial breweries claiming to produce mead are merely adding honey after fermentation is finished as a flavoring to other spirits (a very sore issue in the mead making community). The mead we brew, and have been brewing in small batches for family and friends for years, we pride on being carefully hand crafted over long months of fermentation (not the fast, heat fermentation that is heavily chemical dependent used by larger commercial brewers).  We pride it on being 100% natural, chemical and additive free, from 100% RAW honey.  The recipes we use and the yeasts we use require a honey that is uncooked and unheated.  The product we were sold and led to believe met these standards does not, and as such we can not make these claims or sell any product we were able to salvage from this under that brand once we finalize licensing.  Worse, as this bulk order was to be used to produce much of the required sample product required for testing and validation by the state liquor authority, this deception by [redacted] has torpedoed our efforts and set us back by a minimum of 6 months to a year at best.I am attaching pictures of the Honey, both in the pale, and scooped into a smaller jar, to leave little doubt over the fact it has been cooked or heated and [redacted] is an outright liar and fraud. Sincerely,[redacted]

I am sorry for the failed batch of brew by [redacted] but I will continue to stand by our product. This is clearly he said, she said so I am not sure there is a middle ground. I bring up our history in the beekeeping industry only because it shows our credibility and our expertise. Once again, our honey is raw and I'm sorry that [redacted] does not agree and we have a difference of opinions obviously. I find that a reasonable amount of time to bring up any concerns with our product would have been 30-60 days and not four months. The brew process is always complicated when honey is brought in as an ingredient due to honey's complex nature of yeast, bacteria, moisture content, etc. There are way too many variables in the entire brew process for [redacted] to pin point that our honey was the culprit. I am not malicious or a bully. I am passionate about our product and what our family produces and after the dust settles of this complaint we will continue to produce and sell raw [redacted] honey. We are a hard working family apiary that lives and breathes honey and bees so when my integrity is challenged I will stand up for our product and fight it. Nothing malicious about it. We are reasonable people and have no problem working with other reasonable customers. As I stated before, 4 months is too much time to decide he wants to return something. [redacted] says he has about 40lbs of honey left. If it was me, I would put the rest of our high quality honey into jars and give out as Christmas gifts. Not sure where to go from here really. He thinks our honey is not raw. Our honey is raw. He purchased it 4 months ago. The bucket is opened and we can't accept his return of the used honey.