Big Two Toyota of Chandler

First we would like to point out that no one forced Mr [redacted] to stay at the store, to eat lunch at the store, test drive a vehicle, decide to sign a credit application, decide to sign a purchase contract paperwork, and so onAll of these transactions were of Mr [redacted] free will and decision He could have stopped at any point in the transaction Mr [redacted] decided to purchase a vehicle of his own free will He decided to take the vehicle home when he left the store Saturday July 12, We will point out that Big Two did not arrange financing for Mr***Mr [redacted] wanted to arrange his own financing and brought us a check from his financial institution on Wednesday, July 16, 2014, some days later There was no issue with the purchase transaction when he delivered payment for the vehicle Brett [redacted] , our General Sales Manager, made a follcall to Mr [redacted] on Wednesday, July 23, At this point, Mr [redacted] had not contacted us regarding any issue with his purchaseDuring the conversation with Mr [redacted] , Mr [redacted] wanted to attempt to re-negotiate his purchase He wanted a TrueCar deal and then wanted a Costco dealMr [redacted] explained that he received an exceptional deal on the purchase of his new vehicle that was better than a TrueCar or Costco deal by a substantial amount Mr [redacted] then wanted to know what we were going to do for him to make him a loyal customer of Big Two Mr [redacted] advised him that there was nothing financially we could do to make that a better deal for him At this point, there was no complaint about the vehicle or his purchase decision, only that he wanted something more from us There also was no discussion at this time regarding returning the vehicle Mr [redacted] was unhappy about the fact that we would not re-negotiate the deal after the sale Mr [redacted] created this Revdex.com complaint after our follcall from Mr [redacted] We will point out again that no one forced Mr [redacted] to remain at the store and purchase a vehicle Mr [redacted] was a shrewd negotiator and knew what he was doing throughout the full transaction He was extremely happy when he left the store with his new vehicle We do not know where the details of his complaint are coming from as this was not the case during the transactionMr [redacted] did purchase a vehicle We understand that are two side to any story and appreciate the opportunity to provide our input in the matter We respectfully decline Mr***’s desired outcome to refund his money and take the vehicle back

First we would like to point out that no one forced Mr. [redacted] to stay at the store, to eat lunch at the store, test drive a vehicle, decide to sign a credit application, decide to sign a purchase contract paperwork, and so on. All of these transactions were of Mr. [redacted] free will and decision. ...

He could have stopped at any point in the transaction.
Mr. [redacted] decided to purchase a vehicle of his own free will.  He decided to take the vehicle home when he left the store Saturday July 12, 2014.  We will point out that Big Two did not arrange financing for Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] wanted to arrange his own financing and brought us a check from his financial institution on Wednesday, July 16, 2014, some 5 days later.  There was no issue with the purchase transaction when he delivered payment for the vehicle.
Brett [redacted], our General Sales Manager, made a follow-up call to Mr. [redacted] on Wednesday, July 23, 2014.  At this point, Mr. [redacted] had not contacted us regarding any issue with his purchase. During the conversation with Mr. [redacted], Mr. [redacted] wanted to attempt to re-negotiate his purchase.  He wanted a TrueCar deal and then wanted a Costco deal. Mr. [redacted] explained that he received an exceptional deal on the purchase of his new vehicle that was better than a TrueCar or Costco deal by a substantial amount.  Mr. [redacted] then wanted to know what we were going to do for him to make him a loyal customer of Big Two.  Mr. [redacted] advised him that there was nothing financially we could do to make that a better deal for him.  At this point, there was no complaint about the vehicle or his purchase decision, only that he wanted something more from us.  There also was no discussion at this time regarding returning the vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] was unhappy about the fact that we would not re-negotiate the deal after the sale.
Mr. [redacted] created this Revdex.com complaint after our follow-up call from Mr. [redacted].  We will point out again that no one forced Mr. [redacted] to remain at the store and purchase a vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] was a shrewd negotiator and knew what he was doing throughout the full transaction.  He was extremely happy when he left the store with his new vehicle.  We do not know where the details of his complaint are coming from as this was not the case during the transaction. Mr. [redacted] did purchase a vehicle.
We understand that are two side to any story and appreciate the opportunity to provide our input in the matter.  We respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]’s desired outcome to refund his money and take the vehicle back.

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
As I indicated in my original complaint Yes, I came to your store for test drive. Lunch was bought by your store to keep me at your store so we can agree on price that is too as I was leaving and was intercepted by sales person. This is after I indicated that I am not well due to my Medical condition.
I resisted to sign credit application and to indicate my disagreement I wrote on Credit Application “Do not Pull Credit”. Please review all documents. I disagree on purchase contract hence two contracts were prepared. Is this legal? Attached is an original contract prepared by your store that I refused to signed and disagree, your store was asking for $5000.00 down. I indicated to stop this process and will continue on Monday at this time as well.
Yes, you can say that I bought this car from you with much resistance.
a. Did not agree to pull my credit.
b. Wanted to walk out because I was not getting all accessories that I wanted.
c. Purchase contract was a total misrepresentation. (See attached)
I had my finances in order hence you did not see any issues, yet my credit union did not receive information on time from your store so it took couple of days extra. Contact Vibe credit union to see what transpired during transection.
Mr. [redacted] made a call after I completed my on line survey for Toyota and he wanted to find out “What went wrong?”, So he was following up on my disappointment as indicated on survey. I never asked Mr. [redacted] to renegotiate purchase price, I asked him “What is he willing to do to keep me as a loyal customer?” I wanted to see his response.  Mr. [redacted] I knew true car and Costco prices, please see an attached document that indicates Costco price provided by your dealership on July 12, 2014. Mr. [redacted] your interpolation of our conversation is grossly misrepresented in your reply.
I never asked anything more from Mr. [redacted]. Simply I would like to return vehicle. Why would I re-negotiate deal with your store when I am completely dissatisfied in the way this was handle. Many dealerships are out there and I can basically purchase same car from many other place.
Let me add one more side note to inform you why I was insisting on taking a delivery on Monday, it was my Dad birthday on July 14, 2014 and I wanted to take delivery on his birthday. You may need prrof of this and I am willing to provide Government Issue id as well.
I wonder have we lost human respect.  Have we lost value of honesty? Is life all about misrepresentation?
Simply I request you to find facts and reconsider your decision.
Regards,
[redacted]

This letter is in response to Revdex.com complaint ID# [redacted],

and specifically Mr. [redacted]’s response to our initial complaint response.  Mr. [redacted] had specific concerns about our

response and we wanted to respond to those directly.
Mr. [redacted] stated that at the time he picked up the vehicle

after the replacement of the radiator, which was split and leaking, that he

talked to our Service Advisor, Adam [redacted].  While Mr. [redacted] may have talked with Mr. [redacted] after taking the

vehicle home, at the time of delivery the vehicle had been checked out and test

driven and was not overheating.  Mr.

Rodriguez was called after Mr. [redacted] had left the facility and did not return

with the vehicle to have the issue inspected or diagnosed.Mr. [redacted] also states that from the outset he requested

that all repair bills be refunded through his credit card company.  While I certainly cannot speak to the

conversations that he had with the credit card company, at no time did [redacted]

request Big Two to remove any charges other than the bill that Mr. [redacted]

incurred from [redacted] for additional repairs.  That being said any further refunds were not requested from Big Two and

the refund that was consented to was a goodwill effort by Big Two on the

assumption that further repairs were needed in addition to what was done at Big

Two.Mr. [redacted] did not request a full refund or additional no

charge work until September at which time Mr. [redacted] was surprised that the

repairs at [redacted] did not actually fix the issue that Mr. [redacted] was

experiencing and that Big Two had not been contacted if that was the case.  Mr. [redacted] did request that Big Two repair

the overheating concern at no charge and as stated in our original response,

Mr. [redacted] was told that without diagnosing the cause of the concern we could

not agree to that request.  Based on the

work that was done at Big Two and at [redacted], clearly there is an issue that

needs further diagnosis to be repaired.  As stated in our earlier response, with 150,000 miles on a

vehicle it is common for multiple issues to arise at the same time.  The work that Big Two performed in no way

would cause a vehicle to overheat and the majority of the work done had nothing

to do with the cooling system of the vehicle.  Still Mr. [redacted] has requested refunds for this work that he

authorized.  While I certainly sympathize

with Mr. [redacted], I do not know how repairs on lower control arms or CV boots

could have anything to do with the current issues on the vehicle.  In addition, replacing radiator hoses would

not cause a vehicle to overheat and based on the records from [redacted], they saw

no issue with the work done as being the cause of the overheating.  They diagnosed a water pump and thermostat

concern that would have no connection to radiator hoses or the replacement of

the radiator that was split and no longer functioning correctly.
As for Mr. [redacted]s assertion that the matter was not

discussed multiple times, by his own admission the matter has been gone over 3

times as well as a written response to his October 7th email in

which he explained that he would involve his [redacted].  After that email, Mr. [redacted] sent a response

that he would be filing a complaint with the Revdex.com as well as the [redacted]

[redacted].  At this point Big Two has

already refunded a repair from another company that Mr. [redacted] took the

vehicle to for roughly $900 and discounted additional work and Mr. [redacted] now

wants more work done or a refund of work that in no way is connected to his

current vehicle issues.  In total Big Two

has refunded over $900 and discount an additional $550 of work and the total of

all cooling related work done on the vehicle was $720.21.  Refunding an additional $3200 of work that

was not related to a vehicle cooling issues is not an option.
While we certainly try to have all of our guests happy with

the work we provide, in this case it appears that is not possible.  As such, Big Two is not willing to refund Mr.

[redacted] for the work done in June or to work on his vehicle at no charge.  Again, we appreciate the opportunity to

express our side of this situation and thank you for your time.[redacted] Sales ManagerBig Two Toyota Scion of Chandler

Receiving unsolicited sales calls even though I'm on the do not call list, never had any business dealings with this company. Filed a complaint with the FTC.

I was going to wait a few more days before writing this review to give Wally H[redacted] the General Manager a chance to speak with me, but I now realize my situation isn’t as unique as I thought it was. I’ve also realized that Chris H[redacted] is the one who responds to the complaints and given that I was at the dealership yesterday and had asked to speak with him and I was told “he was buried under paperwork” and couldn’t talk to me I’ve decided to share my story.

Service: I have a 2009 Toyota Carolla. On Friday August 12, 2016 I got to work and it wouldn’t go into park. I could get it into neutral, but it wouldn’t release my key. I drove to the dealership and saw my service representative Big Mike. I got a rental car at my cost and returned to work. I received a call a few hours later that it was my transmission and would be $5600 to repair. My vehicle has 165,000 miles so it didn’t make sense to repair it. I left work to go back to the dealership to see about getting a new car and make arrangements to have my car towed home. Talking to sales was the biggest mistake I’ve ever made. See 2nd review on Sales. I had the vehicle towed to my home to be looked at by someone else. Here is what the dealership said is wrong with my car: shifter cable stretched, park/neutral/drive switch broken, arm that comes off the front prndl swith bent and transmission needs replaced. My shifter cable is stretched/broken, by park/neutral/drive switch is broken, but here is where it gets interesting. We aren’t sure that the transmission is broken. I’m still waiting for the final word. However the bent arm that comes off the prndl switch that may have caused the transmission damage was done by the service department forcing my car into park!!! That is how it got bent. I would also like to note that I had to go to the dealership to meet the tow truck as Doug from sales put my car key in his personal locker and not back with the service desk. When I went back with the tow truck we also discovered my plates had been removed as well as my registration. I DIDN’T sign a contract to buy a new car or trade mine in.

Sales: My biggest mistake was meeting with the sales team on a day that my car was undrivable on their lot. We all knew they had me bent over a barrel, but I trusted that they were going to help me. I won’t get into all the gory details, but I had been told to tell them I was a Costco member so I could get the Costco pricing which is the lowest they can go. I was told by Doug that this deal was better and if I showed my Costco card they would have to follow Costco rules and wouldn’t be able to give me this amazing deal. I told him I was unsure about leasing a vehicle and had lots of questions. He told me I would have to talk to finance to get all the details and the only way to talk to finance was to complete an application. I completed the application and while in the finance waiting room I asked for the blank lease agreement twice and didn’t get it. I told them prior to be pulled into the finance office that I was uncomfortable and didn’t want to move forward. This is when I was finally moved to the finance office where Doug, Rusty A[redacted] the Sales manager and someone from finance spent 2 hours trying to pressure me into signing the lease agreement. I was crying and kept telling them I wanted to leave and think about it all overnight so I could research some things. They told me there was nothing to research. I finally quit talking and was taken back to my car to get my belongings. I was up all night researching and other Toyota dealers have the same vehicle for $3k to $4k less. There was also a rebate on the vehicle and 0 percent financing which I was told I didn’t qualify for due to credit score. I have since met with Brian their internet manager and I was shown the Costco deal for that vehicle. It was better than the deal they were giving me. I saw the invoice. They had told me they were taking a $1500 loss on my deal yet I was still paying over invoice. I was also told my credit score qualified for 0%.

First we would like to point out that no one forced Mr. [redacted] to stay at the store, to eat lunch at the store, test drive a vehicle, decide to sign a credit application, decide to sign a purchase contract paperwork, and so on. All of these transactions were of Mr. [redacted] free will and decision. ...

He could have stopped at any point in the transaction.

Mr. [redacted] decided to purchase a vehicle of his own free will.  He decided to take the vehicle home when he left the store Saturday July 12, 2014.  We will point out that Big Two did not arrange financing for Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] wanted to arrange his own financing and brought us a check from his financial institution on Wednesday, July 16, 2014, some 5 days later.  There was no issue with the purchase transaction when he delivered payment for the vehicle.

Brett [redacted], our General Sales Manager, made a follow-up call to Mr. [redacted] on Wednesday, July 23, 2014.  At this point, Mr. [redacted] had not contacted us regarding any issue with his purchase. During the conversation with Mr. [redacted], Mr. [redacted] wanted to attempt to re-negotiate his purchase.  He wanted a TrueCar deal and then wanted a Costco deal. Mr. [redacted] explained that he received an exceptional deal on the purchase of his new vehicle that was better than a TrueCar or Costco deal by a substantial amount.  Mr. [redacted] then wanted to know what we were going to do for him to make him a loyal customer of Big Two.  Mr. [redacted] advised him that there was nothing financially we could do to make that a better deal for him.  At this point, there was no complaint about the vehicle or his purchase decision, only that he wanted something more from us.  There also was no discussion at this time regarding returning the vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] was unhappy about the fact that we would not re-negotiate the deal after the sale.

Mr. [redacted] created this Revdex.com complaint after our follow-up call from Mr. [redacted].  We will point out again that no one forced Mr. [redacted] to remain at the store and purchase a vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] was a shrewd negotiator and knew what he was doing throughout the full transaction.  He was extremely happy when he left the store with his new vehicle.  We do not know where the details of his complaint are coming from as this was not the case during the transaction. Mr. [redacted] did purchase a vehicle.

We understand that are two side to any story and appreciate the opportunity to provide our input in the matter.  We respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]’s desired outcome to refund his money and take the vehicle back.

March 31, 2015Complaint ID# [redacted]

 Dear Revdex.com Dispute Resolution Consultant,This memo will reference the complaint by Luis[redacted] and his request for warranty coverage regarding his 2013 ScionFRS at Big Two...

Toyota Scion of [redacted].In reviewing [redacted] letter, we haveinvestigated the concerns documented in his complaint and subsequent letter tothe Scion Headquarters.  [redacted] didbring his vehicle in to Big Two with a concern about an engine knocking soundand Big Two inspected the vehicle in compliance with Scion warrantyprocedures.  The technician foundevidence of metal on the oil dipstick and confirmed the noise coming from theengine bay.  At that time per standardprocedure for a warranty claim concerning an engine, the technician called ToyotaTAS line (Toyota Technical Assistance) and opened a dialogue with Toyota todiscern if the matter was a concern that had been documented in other Scion FRSmodels.  At that time the TAS line statedthat they did not believe that to be the case. Based on the TAS information, Big Two contacted our Field TechnicalSpecialist with Toyota to seek warranty coverage for engine tear-down andpotentially a new engine.  Upon review of the documents, TAS Case, and vehicleservice history, the Field Technical Specialist for Toyota denied coverage of[redacted] vehicle and told Big Two that Scion would not cover the enginesince recommended maintenance had not been done based on Scion’s warrantyrequirements.  Big Two asked that thematter be further reviewed and coverage was still denied by Scion.To be clear, Big Two Toyota Scion of [redacted] didnot deny any warranty coverage and has no right to do so.  In fact, it would be beneficial to Big Two tohave been authorized to do the mechanical work involved for [redacted].  While Big Two would be more than happy torepair the vehicle under warranty, as an agent for the Scion warranty, we arebound by our dealer agreement to follow the direction of Scion in regards towarranty claims.  In this case, Scion hasdenied coverage and Big Two cannot overrule their findings.  While we certainly sympathize with **.[redacted], we cannot unilaterally grant warranty coverage against the decisionsof Scion representatives.  Again, we would be more than happy to repair thevehicle under warranty for [redacted], but after multiple attempts to havethe repair covered by Scion we were ultimately denied.  Any further coverage or discussionunfortunately must be made with Scion directly. We will be available to point [redacted] in the right direction shouldhe desire to pursue this issue further with Scion but cannot authorize warrantycoverage that has been explicitly denied by Scion.We certainly regret the circumstances of thisissue and appreciate the opportunity to provide this information and our sideof this matter.Sincerely,[redacted]

This letter is a response to the complaint filed by Mr. [redacted] via the Revdex.com and received by Big Two on November 16th,...

2015.  The complaint number in question is ID# [redacted].  Mr. [redacted] has on multiple occasions brought his vehicle into Big Two Toyota for service work, the specific repairs in question are from repair orders dated 6/20/2015 and 6/25/2015.  Mr. [redacted] is seeking refunds for work done on both repair orders and has previously spoken with our Assistant [redacted] Manager, [redacted] in regards to his concerns. Mr. [redacted] brought his 2006 Sienna in for service on 6/20/2015 with a concern that his air-conditioning system was intermittently failing and to have his 5,000 mile service performed.  As part of that service Big Two completes a complimentary inspection on the vehicle to make sure the vehicle is operating as designed and that any wear related issues can be addressed before they cause larger issues.  During this inspection the technician found a number of issues, this included torn lower control arms, upper and lower radiator hoses in need of repair, passenger side CV boot leaks, and transmission flush and reseal.  These were not unexpected based on a 9 year old, 150,000 mile vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] authorized the above repairs and they were completed by Big Two.
After taking delivery of the vehicle, Mr. [redacted] returned on 6/25/2015 with an overheating concern.  Based on previously working on the vehicle and Mr. [redacted]’s previous business, our Service Director, [redacted], authorized a $500 discount on repairing a split in Mr. [redacted]’s radiator.  The split in the radiator was in no way caused by Big Two and would have to be addressed before any further diagnosis on the overheating concern could be addressed.  Upon replacement of the radiator our technician drove the vehicle to check for further overheating concerns and found no further issues at that time.  Mr. [redacted] picked up his vehicle and to our knowledge at the time there were no further issues. 
After taking delivery, Mr. [redacted] apparently had another overheating issue and decided to take his vehicle to [redacted].  [redacted] diagnosed the concern as having to do with a failed water pump and thermostat.  After paying his bill with [redacted], Mr. [redacted] contacted his credit card company and requested that amount be reduced from his Big Two service bills.  When the credit card company contacted Big Two, [redacted] agreed to accept the charge-back as a goodwill to the guest and on the chance that our technician did not spot a failure in the water pump.  Months later Mr. [redacted] came into the store and spoke with [redacted], explaining that the vehicle was still overheating and that [redacted]’s repairs had not fixed the problem.  At that time he asked for Big Two to fix the vehicle at no charge to him.  At that point, Mr. [redacted] was told that we could not give him a promise of no costs to fix the vehicle since we had not seen the vehicle to diagnose what was causing the problem.  We also pointed out to Mr. [redacted] that we had reduced one bill by $500 and then credited him $946.00 for his repairs at [redacted] that did not fix the issue.  Mr. [redacted] explained at that time to Mr. [redacted] that the vehicle needed to be diagnosed to even discuss any assistance.
On October 7th, 2015, Mr. [redacted] sent a letter to Big Two offering 2 options he found acceptable or he would pursue litigation.
“I see three possible outcomes for this to be made satisfactory.
1.       One would be taking the van back and completing whatever repairs are necessary to make it a functional vehicle again, at no extra charge to us. (We had owned this van for nine years, and it never overheated until that fateful day, June 20th, when I took it in.)
2.       Completely refunding the money we paid you for the repairs the two times it was in your shop. (That still gives us a non-working vehicle, but I’m willing to deal with that.)

3.       This last outcome, is one that I don’t want to embark on, but am considering, since I’ve put around $3600 into a car that still isn’t running. I’m speaking of litigation against Big Two, to try to recoup the money spent on a bad repair. I have already spoken to an [redacted] regarding this matter”

Below is a copy of the response to that demand…
Mr. [redacted],
I received your email in regards to the 2006 Sienna you currently own and that was in our service center recently.  As we discussed on your visit prior to the email, we did not dispute the bill from [redacted], not because we felt that we had repaired the vehicle incorrectly but rather that there was additional work required to handle the issue.  As I said at the time, we wanted to give you, our guest the benefit of the doubt if there was something that one of our technicians could possibly have missed.
Obviously, after the additional work was done at [redacted], the problem was still not corrected and apparently did not have to do with the parts that they stated needed to be replaced.  While I understand that having the car inoperable has been a difficult situation for you, I also don’t know at this time what the issues with the vehicle are and therefore cannot tell you that we will do work on the vehicle at no charge when the problem has not been diagnosed.  A 9 year old vehicle with over 100,000 miles can have multiple issues and repairing one item does not mean that another part or system will not fail as well.  At this point no one knows what is causing the overheating concern and will not know until the problem is diagnosed.  In the meantime, let me address each of your three options individually.
1.       As I stated above, at this time no one knows why the vehicle is overheating.  Our original diagnosis of the issue did not fix the issue and it appears that [redacted] had the same issue when you took the vehicle to them.  The only cooling system repair we have done was to the radiator that was split at the seam and which would have to have been repaired.  While we certainly want all vehicles repaired right the first time, we do realize that there are times when something may be missed and need to be looked at again.  The technician did test drive the vehicle and at that time the vehicle did not overheat on the test drive.  Without diagnosing the source of the issue we cannot even begin to authorize work on the vehicle at any price let alone with no charge attached.
2.       Refunding your prior service tickets does not fix your current problem and quite frankly does not make sense given what those tickets were for.  The initial ticket had nothing to do with an over-heating issue and was authorized by you based on work the vehicle needed at that time.  The oil change, lower control arms, CV boots, transmission flush and reseal, would not have anything to do with an overheating concern.  The radiator hoses being replaced likewise, would not cause a vehicle to overheat, and based on the second opinion you received at [redacted], were not the cause of the problem.  The only work performed after your vehicle overheated was to replace the radiator that had split at the seam.  Without question this repair would have to have been done to allow any opportunity to fix an overheating concern and was done with a $550 discount as a goodwill effort since you had just had the car in for service.  In addition to absorbing the cost of your [redacted] bill, I cannot see the reason to refund you for work that was authorized and in all but one case had nothing to do with your cooling system so that will not be an option at this time.
3.       Your last option involved seeking payment through litigation.  While it is certainly within your rights to pursue any option you feel works best for you, the facts of the above mentioned repairs does not warrant refunding money on repairs that could not have caused an overheating issue and given the goodwill discount and the absorption of your [redacted] bill I don’t believe that it is warranted.  If you would like to pursue litigation please forward all future correspondence to our [redacted] of record.
Mr. [redacted], I know that it is has not been an easy few months for you in regards to the Sienna and the family concerns you have been dealing with.  I hope that you understand that with a 9 year old vehicle with over 100,000 miles mechanical breakdowns can and often do occur.  However, the work done on your vehicle was not the cause of these concerns and to expect reimbursement for them does not in our opinion make sense at this point.  I unfortunately cannot agree to either of your first two options, if you would like to have the vehicle inspected and a diagnosis performed as to what the root cause of the overheating concern is we can work on that but with the understanding that any work would have to be paid for at standard shop rates.

Sincerely,

[redacted]
Assistant [redacted] Manager
Big Two Toyota Scion of Chandler

As you can see we have already discussed the situation multiple times with Mr. [redacted] and while we certainly do not want to have an upset guest, we simply do not agree that Mr. [redacted] is entitled to a refund on work that has no correlation to the overheating issue he is experiencing.  Big Two has already worked on Mr. [redacted]’s vehicle at reduced cost and reimbursed Mr. [redacted] for work done by another shop even though that work did not fix the condition.  As stated above, at 9 years and 150,000 miles we cannot predict what components may fail and certainly have gone above and beyond to try to make the situation right.  We appreciate the opportunity to express our side of this situation and thank you for your time.

[redacted] Manager
Big Two Toyota Scion of Chandler

This letter is in response to Revdex.com complaint ID# [redacted],

and specifically Mr. [redacted]’s response to our initial complaint response.  Mr. [redacted] had specific concerns about our

response and we wanted to respond to those directly.
Mr. [redacted] stated that at the time he picked up the vehicle

after the replacement of the radiator, which was split and leaking, that he

talked to our Service Advisor, Adam [redacted].  While Mr. [redacted] may have talked with Mr. [redacted] after taking the

vehicle home, at the time of delivery the vehicle had been checked out and test

driven and was not overheating.  Mr.

Rodriguez was called after Mr. [redacted] had left the facility and did not return

with the vehicle to have the issue inspected or diagnosed.Mr. [redacted] also states that from the outset he requested

that all repair bills be refunded through his credit card company.  While I certainly cannot speak to the

conversations that he had with the credit card company, at no time did [redacted]

request Big Two to remove any charges other than the bill that Mr. [redacted]

incurred from [redacted] for additional repairs.  That being said any further refunds were not requested from Big Two and

the refund that was consented to was a goodwill effort by Big Two on the

assumption that further repairs were needed in addition to what was done at Big

Two.Mr. [redacted] did not request a full refund or additional no

charge work until September at which time Mr. [redacted] was surprised that the

repairs at [redacted] did not actually fix the issue that Mr. [redacted] was

experiencing and that Big Two had not been contacted if that was the case.  Mr. [redacted] did request that Big Two repair

the overheating concern at no charge and as stated in our original response,

Mr. [redacted] was told that without diagnosing the cause of the concern we could

not agree to that request.  Based on the

work that was done at Big Two and at [redacted], clearly there is an issue that

needs further diagnosis to be repaired.  As stated in our earlier response, with 150,000 miles on a

vehicle it is common for multiple issues to arise at the same time.  The work that Big Two performed in no way

would cause a vehicle to overheat and the majority of the work done had nothing

to do with the cooling system of the vehicle.  Still Mr. [redacted] has requested refunds for this work that he

authorized.  While I certainly sympathize

with Mr. [redacted], I do not know how repairs on lower control arms or CV boots

could have anything to do with the current issues on the vehicle.  In addition, replacing radiator hoses would

not cause a vehicle to overheat and based on the records from [redacted], they saw

no issue with the work done as being the cause of the overheating.  They diagnosed a water pump and thermostat

concern that would have no connection to radiator hoses or the replacement of

the radiator that was split and no longer functioning correctly.
As for Mr. [redacted]s assertion that the matter was not

discussed multiple times, by his own admission the matter has been gone over 3

times as well as a written response to his October 7th email in

which he explained that he would involve his [redacted].  After that email, Mr. [redacted] sent a response

that he would be filing a complaint with the Revdex.com as well as the [redacted].  At this point Big Two has

already refunded a repair from another company that Mr. [redacted] took the

vehicle to for roughly $900 and discounted additional work and Mr. [redacted] now

wants more work done or a refund of work that in no way is connected to his

current vehicle issues.  In total Big Two

has refunded over $900 and discount an additional $550 of work and the total of

all cooling related work done on the vehicle was $720.21.  Refunding an additional $3200 of work that

was not related to a vehicle cooling issues is not an option.
While we certainly try to have all of our guests happy with

the work we provide, in this case it appears that is not possible.  As such, Big Two is not willing to refund Mr.

[redacted] for the work done in June or to work on his vehicle at no charge.  Again, we appreciate the opportunity to

express our side of this situation and thank you for your time.[redacted] Sales ManagerBig Two Toyota Scion of Chandler

This memo will reference the complaint by [redacted] and his concern about warranty coverage of the door window runs on his Toyota Prius C.In reviewing the letter from Mr. [redacted], we found some misinformation as to the work done on the vehicle as well as where current repair work stands on...

the vehicle. The vehicle in question did in fact have an issue with the fit of the door window runs and these were replaced under warranty at Big Two per the manufacturer warranty. At the time of the repair the current Field Technical Specialist with Toyota was involved.Mr. [redacted], now feels that the window runs are still incorrect and are in need of further replacement.  [redacted] the Service Director has spoken with Mr. [redacted] and has expressed that at this point the vehicle will need to be inspected by the Field Technical Specialist to determine the next step to address Mr. [redacted]’ concern. Mr. [redacted] was under the impression that on his last visit this had occurred, when in fact it did not.  Mr. [redacted] took pictures of the concern and forwarded them to Toyota and asked for Mr. [redacted] to be scheduled on his next visit for review of current concern. After receipt of this complaint, we did contact Mr. [redacted] and explained the situation and the next course of action. During this discussion Mr. [redacted] agreed to have the vehicle inspected by the Toyota Field Technical Specialist on his next visit for further warranty consideration. This inspection will be scheduled for the next FTS visit and Mr. [redacted] is aware of the timeframe for that visit.  Big Two would obviously have no problem with making any necessary repairs to the vehicle, however we do need to follow the manufacturer’s warranty guidelines while resolving this concern.We certainly regret that Mr. [redacted] continues to have concerns regarding the fit of these trim pieces on his Prius and will work with Toyota to resolve them within the framework of his warranty coverage.  We appreciate the opportunity to provide this information and our side of the story.Sincerely,[redacted]

First we would like to point out that no one forced Mr. [redacted] to stay at the store, to eat lunch at the store, test drive a vehicle, decide to sign a credit application, decide to sign a purchase contract paperwork, and so on. All of these transactions were of Mr. [redacted] free will and decision. ...

He could have stopped at any point in the transaction.

Mr. [redacted] decided to purchase a vehicle of his own free will.  He decided to take the vehicle home when he left the store Saturday July 12, 2014.  We will point out that Big Two did not arrange financing for Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] wanted to arrange his own financing and brought us a check from his financial institution on Wednesday, July 16, 2014, some 5 days later.  There was no issue with the purchase transaction when he delivered payment for the vehicle.

Brett [redacted], our General Sales Manager, made a follow-up call to Mr. [redacted] on Wednesday, July 23, 2014.  At this point, Mr. [redacted] had not contacted us regarding any issue with his purchase. During the conversation with Mr. [redacted], Mr. [redacted] wanted to attempt to re-negotiate his purchase.  He wanted a TrueCar deal and then wanted a Costco deal. Mr. [redacted] explained that he received an exceptional deal on the purchase of his new vehicle that was better than a TrueCar or Costco deal by a substantial amount.  Mr. [redacted] then wanted to know what we were going to do for him to make him a loyal customer of Big Two.  Mr. [redacted] advised him that there was nothing financially we could do to make that a better deal for him.  At this point, there was no complaint about the vehicle or his purchase decision, only that he wanted something more from us.  There also was no discussion at this time regarding returning the vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] was unhappy about the fact that we would not re-negotiate the deal after the sale.

Mr. [redacted] created this Revdex.com complaint after our follow-up call from Mr. [redacted].  We will point out again that no one forced Mr. [redacted] to remain at the store and purchase a vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] was a shrewd negotiator and knew what he was doing throughout the full transaction.  He was extremely happy when he left the store with his new vehicle.  We do not know where the details of his complaint are coming from as this was not the case during the transaction. Mr. [redacted] did purchase a vehicle.

We understand that are two side to any story and appreciate the opportunity to provide our input in the matter.  We respectfully decline Mr. [redacted]’s desired outcome to refund his money and take the vehicle back.

This letter is a response to the complaint filed by Mr. [redacted] via the Revdex.com and received by Big Two on November 16th,...

2015.  The complaint number in question is ID# [redacted].  Mr. [redacted] has on multiple occasions brought his vehicle into Big Two Toyota for service work, the specific repairs in question are from repair orders dated 6/20/2015 and 6/25/2015.  Mr. [redacted] is seeking refunds for work done on both repair orders and has previously spoken with our Assistant [redacted] Manager, [redacted] in regards to his concerns. Mr. [redacted] brought his 2006 Sienna in for service on 6/20/2015 with a concern that his air-conditioning system was intermittently failing and to have his 5,000 mile service performed.  As part of that service Big Two completes a complimentary inspection on the vehicle to make sure the vehicle is operating as designed and that any wear related issues can be addressed before they cause larger issues.  During this inspection the technician found a number of issues, this included torn lower control arms, upper and lower radiator hoses in need of repair, passenger side CV boot leaks, and transmission flush and reseal.  These were not unexpected based on a 9 year old, 150,000 mile vehicle.  Mr. [redacted] authorized the above repairs and they were completed by Big Two.
After taking delivery of the vehicle, Mr. [redacted] returned on 6/25/2015 with an overheating concern.  Based on previously working on the vehicle and Mr. [redacted]’s previous business, our Service Director, [redacted], authorized a $500 discount on repairing a split in Mr. [redacted]’s radiator.  The split in the radiator was in no way caused by Big Two and would have to be addressed before any further diagnosis on the overheating concern could be addressed.  Upon replacement of the radiator our technician drove the vehicle to check for further overheating concerns and found no further issues at that time.  Mr. [redacted] picked up his vehicle and to our knowledge at the time there were no further issues. 
After taking delivery, Mr. [redacted] apparently had another overheating issue and decided to take his vehicle to [redacted].  [redacted] diagnosed the concern as having to do with a failed water pump and thermostat.  After paying his bill with [redacted], Mr. [redacted] contacted his credit card company and requested that amount be reduced from his Big Two service bills.  When the credit card company contacted Big Two, [redacted] agreed to accept the charge-back as a goodwill to the guest and on the chance that our technician did not spot a failure in the water pump.  Months later Mr. [redacted] came into the store and spoke with [redacted], explaining that the vehicle was still overheating and that [redacted]’s repairs had not fixed the problem.  At that time he asked for Big Two to fix the vehicle at no charge to him.  At that point, Mr. [redacted] was told that we could not give him a promise of no costs to fix the vehicle since we had not seen the vehicle to diagnose what was causing the problem.  We also pointed out to Mr. [redacted] that we had reduced one bill by $500 and then credited him $946.00 for his repairs at [redacted] that did not fix the issue.  Mr. [redacted] explained at that time to Mr. [redacted] that the vehicle needed to be diagnosed to even discuss any assistance.
On October 7th, 2015, Mr. [redacted] sent a letter to Big Two offering 2 options he found acceptable or he would pursue litigation.
“I see three possible outcomes for this to be made satisfactory.
1.       One would be taking the van back and completing whatever repairs are necessary to make it a functional vehicle again, at no extra charge to us. (We had owned this van for nine years, and it never overheated until that fateful day, June 20th, when I took it in.)
2.       Completely refunding the money we paid you for the repairs the two times it was in your shop. (That still gives us a non-working vehicle, but I’m willing to deal with that.)

3.       This last outcome, is one that I don’t want to embark on, but am considering, since I’ve put around $3600 into a car that still isn’t running. I’m speaking of litigation against Big Two, to try to recoup the money spent on a bad repair. I have already spoken to an [redacted] regarding this matter”

Below is a copy of the response to that demand…
Mr. [redacted],
I received your email in regards to the 2006 Sienna you currently own and that was in our service center recently.  As we discussed on your visit prior to the email, we did not dispute the bill from [redacted], not because we felt that we had repaired the vehicle incorrectly but rather that there was additional work required to handle the issue.  As I said at the time, we wanted to give you, our guest the benefit of the doubt if there was something that one of our technicians could possibly have missed.
Obviously, after the additional work was done at [redacted], the problem was still not corrected and apparently did not have to do with the parts that they stated needed to be replaced.  While I understand that having the car inoperable has been a difficult situation for you, I also don’t know at this time what the issues with the vehicle are and therefore cannot tell you that we will do work on the vehicle at no charge when the problem has not been diagnosed.  A 9 year old vehicle with over 100,000 miles can have multiple issues and repairing one item does not mean that another part or system will not fail as well.  At this point no one knows what is causing the overheating concern and will not know until the problem is diagnosed.  In the meantime, let me address each of your three options individually.
1.       As I stated above, at this time no one knows why the vehicle is overheating.  Our original diagnosis of the issue did not fix the issue and it appears that [redacted] had the same issue when you took the vehicle to them.  The only cooling system repair we have done was to the radiator that was split at the seam and which would have to have been repaired.  While we certainly want all vehicles repaired right the first time, we do realize that there are times when something may be missed and need to be looked at again.  The technician did test drive the vehicle and at that time the vehicle did not overheat on the test drive.  Without diagnosing the source of the issue we cannot even begin to authorize work on the vehicle at any price let alone with no charge attached.
2.       Refunding your prior service tickets does not fix your current problem and quite frankly does not make sense given what those tickets were for.  The initial ticket had nothing to do with an over-heating issue and was authorized by you based on work the vehicle needed at that time.  The oil change, lower control arms, CV boots, transmission flush and reseal, would not have anything to do with an overheating concern.  The radiator hoses being replaced likewise, would not cause a vehicle to overheat, and based on the second opinion you received at [redacted], were not the cause of the problem.  The only work performed after your vehicle overheated was to replace the radiator that had split at the seam.  Without question this repair would have to have been done to allow any opportunity to fix an overheating concern and was done with a $550 discount as a goodwill effort since you had just had the car in for service.  In addition to absorbing the cost of your [redacted] bill, I cannot see the reason to refund you for work that was authorized and in all but one case had nothing to do with your cooling system so that will not be an option at this time.
3.       Your last option involved seeking payment through litigation.  While it is certainly within your rights to pursue any option you feel works best for you, the facts of the above mentioned repairs does not warrant refunding money on repairs that could not have caused an overheating issue and given the goodwill discount and the absorption of your [redacted] bill I don’t believe that it is warranted.  If you would like to pursue litigation please forward all future correspondence to our [redacted] of record.
Mr. [redacted], I know that it is has not been an easy few months for you in regards to the Sienna and the family concerns you have been dealing with.  I hope that you understand that with a 9 year old vehicle with over 100,000 miles mechanical breakdowns can and often do occur.  However, the work done on your vehicle was not the cause of these concerns and to expect reimbursement for them does not in our opinion make sense at this point.  I unfortunately cannot agree to either of your first two options, if you would like to have the vehicle inspected and a diagnosis performed as to what the root cause of the overheating concern is we can work on that but with the understanding that any work would have to be paid for at standard shop rates.

Sincerely,

[redacted]
Assistant [redacted] Manager
Big Two Toyota Scion of Chandler

As you can see we have already discussed the situation multiple times with Mr. [redacted] and while we certainly do not want to have an upset guest, we simply do not agree that Mr. [redacted] is entitled to a refund on work that has no correlation to the overheating issue he is experiencing.  Big Two has already worked on Mr. [redacted]’s vehicle at reduced cost and reimbursed Mr. [redacted] for work done by another shop even though that work did not fix the condition.  As stated above, at 9 years and 150,000 miles we cannot predict what components may fail and certainly have gone above and beyond to try to make the situation right.  We appreciate the opportunity to express our side of this situation and thank you for your time.

[redacted] Manager
Big Two Toyota Scion of Chandler

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.[Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.]

Regards,[redacted]

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.As I indicated in my original complaint Yes, I came to your store for test drive. Lunch was bought by your store to keep me at your store so we can agree on price that is too as I was leaving and was intercepted by sales person. This is after I indicated that I am not well due to my Medical condition.

I resisted to sign credit application and to indicate my disagreement I wrote on Credit Application “Do not Pull Credit”. Please review all documents. I disagree on purchase contract hence two contracts were prepared. Is this legal? Attached is an original contract prepared by your store that I refused to signed and disagree, your store was asking for $5000.00 down. I indicated to stop this process and will continue on Monday at this time as well.

Yes, you can say that I bought this car from you with much resistance.

a. Did not agree to pull my credit.

b. Wanted to walk out because I was not getting all accessories that I wanted.

c. Purchase contract was a total misrepresentation. (See attached)

I had my finances in order hence you did not see any issues, yet my credit union did not receive information on time from your store so it took couple of days extra. Contact Vibe credit union to see what transpired during transection.

Mr. [redacted] made a call after I completed my on line survey for Toyota and he wanted to find out “What went wrong?”, So he was following up on my disappointment as indicated on survey. I never asked Mr. [redacted] to renegotiate purchase price, I asked him “What is he willing to do to keep me as a loyal customer?” I wanted to see his response.  Mr. [redacted] I knew true car and Costco prices, please see an attached document that indicates Costco price provided by your dealership on July 12, 2014. Mr. [redacted] your interpolation of our conversation is grossly misrepresented in your reply.

I never asked anything more from Mr. [redacted]. Simply I would like to return vehicle. Why would I re-negotiate deal with your store when I am completely dissatisfied in the way this was handle. Many dealerships are out there and I can basically purchase same car from many other place.

Let me add one more side note to inform you why I was insisting on taking a delivery on Monday, it was my Dad birthday on July 14, 2014 and I wanted to take delivery on his birthday. You may need prrof of this and I am willing to provide Government Issue id as well.

I wonder have we lost human respect.  Have we lost value of honesty? Is life all about misrepresentation?

Simply I request you to find facts and reconsider your decision.

Regards,

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution would be satisfactory to me.  I will wait until for the business to perform this action and, if it does, will consider this complaint resolved.

Regards,[redacted]

I reject the response form Big Two. I have added their response via an attachment, and inserted my responses to their response in red, with italics, and enclosed in parenthesis.

March 31, 2015Complaint ID# [redacted]

 Dear Revdex.com Dispute Resolution Consultant,This memo will reference the complaint by Luis[redacted] and his request for warranty coverage regarding his 2013 ScionFRS at Big Two...

Toyota Scion of [redacted].In reviewing [redacted] letter, we haveinvestigated the concerns documented in his complaint and subsequent letter tothe Scion Headquarters.  [redacted] didbring his vehicle in to Big Two with a concern about an engine knocking soundand Big Two inspected the vehicle in compliance with Scion warrantyprocedures.  The technician foundevidence of metal on the oil dipstick and confirmed the noise coming from theengine bay.  At that time per standardprocedure for a warranty claim concerning an engine, the technician called ToyotaTAS line (Toyota Technical Assistance) and opened a dialogue with Toyota todiscern if the matter was a concern that had been documented in other Scion FRSmodels.  At that time the TAS line statedthat they did not believe that to be the case. Based on the TAS information, Big Two contacted our Field TechnicalSpecialist with Toyota to seek warranty coverage for engine tear-down andpotentially a new engine.  Upon review of the documents, TAS Case, and vehicleservice history, the Field Technical Specialist for Toyota denied coverage of[redacted] vehicle and told Big Two that Scion would not cover the enginesince recommended maintenance had not been done based on Scion’s warrantyrequirements.  Big Two asked that thematter be further reviewed and coverage was still denied by Scion.To be clear, Big Two Toyota Scion of [redacted] didnot deny any warranty coverage and has no right to do so.  In fact, it would be beneficial to Big Two tohave been authorized to do the mechanical work involved for [redacted].  While Big Two would be more than happy torepair the vehicle under warranty, as an agent for the Scion warranty, we arebound by our dealer agreement to follow the direction of Scion in regards towarranty claims.  In this case, Scion hasdenied coverage and Big Two cannot overrule their findings.  While we certainly sympathize with **.[redacted], we cannot unilaterally grant warranty coverage against the decisionsof Scion representatives.  Again, we would be more than happy to repair thevehicle under warranty for [redacted], but after multiple attempts to havethe repair covered by Scion we were ultimately denied.  Any further coverage or discussionunfortunately must be made with Scion directly. We will be available to point [redacted] in the right direction shouldhe desire to pursue this issue further with Scion but cannot authorize warrantycoverage that has been explicitly denied by Scion.We certainly regret the circumstances of thisissue and appreciate the opportunity to provide this information and our sideof this matter.Sincerely,[redacted]

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.Scion said that they would fix the problem but that they could not fix it because Toyota had their TAS look at my car and said that it was because of improper maintenance.  A new car should not be doing this.

Regards,

On May 23, 2014, Ms. [redacted] brought her 2012 Highlander in for the 30,000 mile service.  As a free courtesy service, we inspected Ms. [redacted]’s vehicle for any additional services the vehicle may require.  The inspection found at least two tires that required replacement along with other...

minor maintenance items such as wiper blades. Our state-of-art Hunter alignment checking machine found that the vehicle alignment was out of specifications.  This check is extremely accurate versus a visual tire inspection.  Alignment being slightly out of specifications can cause tires to wear out prematurely.  Based on our inspection of Ms. [redacted] vehicle, we believe this to be the case.  Ms. [redacted] also claimed she did not know the price of the 30,000 mile service even though she signed the repair order next to the estimated price.  As a result, we did not charge her.  She also misunderstood the length of time it would take for the service so we provided a free rental car.   

Regarding defective tire replacement, the tires are covered by a separate warranty provided by the tire manufacturer; ie: [redacted], [redacted], [redacted], [redacted], etc. This tire warranty is specifically outlined in the [redacted] Warranty Manual that came with the vehicle.  A separate Tire Manufacturer’s Warranty Manual specific to the brand of tires that came with the vehicle was included with the [redacted] Warranty Manual information at the time of purchase.  It is our understanding that all vehicle manufacturers specifically outline tires to be excluded from the vehicle manufacturer’s warranty and cover them under a separate tire manufacturer’s warranty.  Ms. [redacted] really needs to talk with the tire manufacturer regarding any reimbursement, not with [redacted] or Big Two [redacted].

In talking with our staff that was involved with Ms. [redacted]’s service, at no time were staff members rude or trying to take advantage of her.  We performed the service that was requested and advised Ms. [redacted] of any additional required services at no charge.  We advised Ms. [redacted] of her warranty and the tires warranty coverage, however, she did not want to listen to us or the coverage that came with the vehicle.  Ms. [redacted] declined the additional services that were recommended such as tires, wiper blades, etc.

We understand that there are two side to any story and appreciate the opportunity to provide our input in the matter.  We respectfully decline any assistance to reimburse Ms. [redacted].  At this point, we would also prefer her to take her business elsewhere.