Boulder Creek Stone Products

I am rejecting this response because: It is untrue and Condor is leaving out the majority of the information from this caseThey are using an old and inaccurate bid that was never updated, after various changes were made...and the down payment was made to secure our fireplace while the details were worked outTheir so-called bid lists out various options for a given project, not final selections and decisionsEven though we were promised that the changes would be reflected at the time of billing, by the project manager who was taken off the project, mid project, for miss-handling the project and major incompetency's on his part (including selling us a fireplace that didn't exist!!)Condor sent us one invoice and/or statement throughout the entire project and that was for the balance of $that was reflected in THEIR invoice, mailed to us after the completion of the projectWe never even received a statement showing what we had already paid during the projectAlmost a year later, they are coming at us claiming we owe them more money and claiming they sent invoices indicating this, when in reality the first time we saw these invoices was this July and the date on the invoice indicates that they were also created this July, proving they never sent them to us last fall!!They have also since emailed us, on September 6th, with a random blank invoice (see attached), showing that the original amount due was $and claiming we have only paid $2225, thus claiming we still owe them $We have copies of all checks showing we have paid them $to date (check images included)I emailed back promptly with the check numbers showing we had paid the $and included the only invoice we ever received from Condor (also included), which says our balance is $1000, which we paid immediately (check image included), and I never received any response to my email.Our mistake was engaging in business with Condor and trusting their word on all aspects of this project...from prices, to record keeping, to quality of work, and follow throughThere seems to be no accountability on their part, and with their ability to create any document they want, they seem to have zero issue creating what suites their storySadly, I don't even think the people who have taken this on at Condor are aware of the details of our project.I have yet to see an updated bid reflecting our discounted fireplace that was promised, the electrical work taken off that we contracted ourselves, or the reduction in stone work based on our tv insert and we are pretty much at the mercy of Condor to claim and create whatever they want.This company has unethical business practices, terrible customer relations, and zero accountability I want them to own their mistakes, both in the carry out of the job as well as their billing and invoicing practices, and close our account.Sincerely, [redacted]

Ms*** paid $as a 50% down payment knowing the total purchase price for materials and services would be $6450.00. Her check is attachedHer handwritten note in the memo acknowledge it is a 50% payment. Attached is the original options for stone, fireplace and installation. Ms*** received a Napoleon fireplace, full framing and stone. All options exceeded $6000.00; her selections totaled $6450.00. It is our position and belief that she was sent two invoices upon completion reflecting the total purchase made for stone and installation of $and fireplace, framing and installation of $4450.00; total purchase price per invoice is $6450.00. The invoices are attached. Her down payment was apportioned between the two invoices, $(or 1/2) to the stone and installation and $(or 1/2) to the fireplace, framing and installation. She claims to have received only the invoice for the balance due on the stone and paid $1000.00. This leaves a balance due of $for the fireplace, framing and installation. The claim that the total purchase price was reduced by $is fabrication. Ms*** owes $as the balance due on her fireplace and stone purchase Condor Fireplace & Stone

I am rejecting this response because:
1. I brought a plan of the project where I was planning to install the fire place before I purchased it and I was recommended SLA-42 Slayton 42S model that I purchased based on my layout. (This is not my major concern).2. My major concern is that when I asked for a different fire place because the first was not designed to be used for my layout, I was offered a different model and was told that the price difference would be under $200, but I received a bill for $5632.42-$2179.99=$3452.43$3452.43 is not $200 as I was quoted. Plus with the new fire place I had a bunch of venting materials and remote control that I HAVE NEVER ORDERED for $5632.42-($2467.85 cost of the fire place)=$3164.57I have NEVER ordered fire place venting parts from you (as stated in your response) and after I requested to return everything, you refused to take the order back.In addition, your workers came to my house to pick up venting materials that I have never ordered but you billed me for them, they picked them up (to reduce the bill amount), but you have never credited my account for all vent pipes that they picked up. Why?There are two options how this could end:1. I take you to court and win and file a judgment for attorney fees, fire place labor and get a refund and file a judgment against you for roughly $12,0002. I keep the fire pace that you sent me and you send me a final bill for $1 to settle.

The Customer, [redacted], is the owner of Minnesota Licensed Building Contractor “[redacted].” (Builder License Nos. [redacted]).  He purchased gas fireplace materials only that he determined were suitable for his self directed installation and he did not...

request a plan review or contract for installation services from Condor Fireplace & Stone.  As a Minnesota Licensed Building Contractor, Mr. [redacted] should be fully aware of the importance of complying with the manufacturer’s installation manual.  The manufacturer states on the cover of the installation manual “WARNING: If the information in these instructions are not followed exactly, a fire or explosion may result causing property damage, personal injury, or loss of life.”  Self directed fireplace installations without our installation services are common with contractor sales. Timeline: 12/8/15, Mr [redacted] informed our sales person that he just wanted to order 2 gas fireplace boxes without vent piping, fronts or installation services.   (Invoice [redacted] which lists only 2 fireplace boxes attached)  The fireplace in question is a Kozy Heat Slayton SLA-42S.  The manufacturer’s installation manual which is available on line at the manufacturer’s website prior to purchase and is included with the fireplace states on page 19 that the MAXIMUM horizontal vent distance is 12 feet.  Based on the fireplace location and vent path determined by Mr. [redacted], that maximum venting limitation was exceeded and this fireplace should never have been installed.  We were not informed of any of the installation requirements.  This is not unusual as many of our fireplace customers do self install. 1/25/16, at Mr. [redacted]’ request, we emailed an electronic copy of the installation manual that was included with the fireplace and is also available on the Kozy Heat website.   The installation manual states that the maximum horizontal vent distance is 12 feet. 2/1/16, Mr. [redacted] ordered an 8’ piece of Flex Vent Kit with Cap and a Wall Pass-Thru for the Kozy Heat Slayton SLA-42S.  At no time were we informed of or asked to verify the installation requirements.  This length of pipe is within the manufacturer’s venting limitation and would not need to be questioned. (Invoice [redacted] attached - only the first 2 lines apply to this Kozy fireplace)  It was later determined that Mr. [redacted] was purchasing vent pipe from sources other than Condor Fireplace that we were not made aware of. 3/10/16, our representative Mike [redacted] watched a YouTube video that Mr. [redacted] posted that explained the installation and Mr. [redacted] recommended via email that he or someone else from Condor Fireplace should visit the site and verify the installation.  On that site visit, it was obvious to our representative, Mike [redacted], that the fireplace selected by Mr. [redacted] installed in the location and with the venting path determined by Mr. [redacted] was not capable of venting.  This installation exceeded the manufacturer’s venting limitation listed in the installation manual creating a dangerous situation.  And it appears that Mr. [redacted] used vent pipe purchased form other sources than Condor Fireplace which eliminated any chance by Condor Fireplace to see an excessive vent pipe quantity.  Again, this was a material only purchase where Mr. [redacted] determined the suitability of the product and plan review or installation services were not requested from Condor Fireplace. 3/31/16, issued Full Credit on the purchase of Slayton SLA-42S purchased on 12/8/15 without restock charge, pick-up truck charge or depreciation for an installed fireplace. (Credit Memo [redacted] attached) 3/31/16, placed special order for replacement fireplace. (Invoice [redacted] attached) Mr. [redacted] terms the Kozy Slayton SLA-42S as “BAD”  but that fireplace should be described as a good fireplace placed in an installation that exceeded its published capabilities.  It is unfortunate that Mr. [redacted] incurred additional labor in the installation and removal of this fireplace but that is a risk Mr. [redacted] incurs when he selects a fireplace with published venting limitations that were exceeded in the installation he selected.  Again, Condor Fireplace was not requested to perform a plan review, provide installation services or sell all the vent pipe used in the installation. The Kozy Heat is a natural venting fireplace box and there is no solution that will allow the Kozy Heat SLA-42S to properly vent in the location and with the desired venting path selected by Mr. [redacted].  Because the desired venting path exceed the limits of a naturally venting fireplace, the fireplace would need to be relocated or the fireplace box would need to be replaced with a power venting fireplace box that will extend the venting limitations.   Mr. [redacted] decided to install an upgraded power vent fireplace to extend the venting limitation in the existing location. Condor Fireplace assisted Mr. [redacted] to find a similar sized fireplace with a power vent function that would be capable of venting in this installation.  The list of available fireplaces that meet these limitations is extremely short.  A replacement model manufactured by Kingsman in Canada was found to meet Mr. [redacted]’ requirements.  The Kingman Infinite Marquis MQRB5143NE is a low volume fireplace manufactured in Canada with advanced technology creating the power vent capabilities.  To assist Mr. [redacted] in solving his fireplace installation problem, we placed a Special Order for this fireplace which is a brand that we do not handle from a supplier that is outside our normal supply chain.  The original Kozy Heat Slayton SLA-42S is a popular high volume fireplace manufactured in Minnesota with an economical price and was sold with the manufacturer’s  $200 Parade Sale Discount.  Condor Fireplace accepted return of the installed Slayton SLA-42S at full price without a restocking charge, truck pick-up charge or depreciation for an installed used product and issued a Full Credit to his account for the return. Because this was a special order low volume, technically advance fireplace manufactured in Canada from a supplier outside our normal supply chain, there was an increase of approximately $1,400 in the base unit with comparable features, $1,020 for the power vent fan unit and $700 for the additional vent pipe footage required for this fireplace installation that were not purchased from Condor Fireplace in the original sale.  Mr. [redacted] has not paid for the replacement special order fireplace and the full outstanding amount is due and payable.  Condor Fireplace believes that Mr. [redacted]’ refund request is unjustified and will continue its Mechanic’s Lien Action on the property to obtain payment.  Mr. [redacted] obtained parts from other sources in addition to Condor Fireplace and none of the remaining parts are resalable by Condor Fireplace. We believe we have gone out of our way to assist Mr. [redacted] solve the problem caused by his mistake.

see attached for response

Customer response:1. I brought a plan of the project where I was planning to install the fire place before I purchased it and I was recommended SLA-42 Slayton 42S model that I purchased based on my layout. (This is not my major concern). Our Response:   I must repeat the foundation of my response:·         The Customer, [redacted], is the owner of Minnesota Licensed Building Contractor “[redacted].” (Builder License Nos. [redacted]).  As a Minnesota Licensed Building Contractor, Mr. [redacted] has a professional responsibility to install product compliant with the manufacturer’s installation manual.  We reject his claim that we recommended that fireplace for that installation per his submitted plan because:o    The manufacturer puts their product through laboratory testing compliant ANSI, CGA and CSA standards and requires installation compliant with ANSI, NFPA or the Natural Gas and Propane Codes.  We do not have the ability to amend or modify the installation manual that was included with the fireplace. We rely on the knowledgeable manufacturer having tested their product as the authority.  The only written installation instructions are these installation manual provided with the fireplace.o    Bids/Quotes for a custom installation prepared from a project plan are prepared and written for the specific address and reference the plan and plan date.  No such Bid/Quote was prepared.  Our sales associate remembers this call being placed over the phone.  Our invoicing is consistent with that phone order for a fireplace box only.  If we had prepared a custom plan Bid/Quote, we would have shipped and invoiced all the required parts included on the Bid/Quote. o   In all cases, the installer is responsible to comply with the installation requirements even if this alleged review and approval is made because the installer is knowledgeable about the actual as-built job site conditions and measurements.o    Our sales associate further remembers that Mr. [redacted] misrepresented the home as a “Parade Home” entry to eligible for a Parade Home discount.  This home was not entered into the Parade of Homes.Customer Response:2. My major concern is that when I asked for a different fire place because the first was not designed to be used for my layout, I was offered a different model and was told that the price difference would be under $200, but I received a bill for $5632.42-$2179.99=$3452.43$3452.43 is not $200 as I was quoted. Plus with the new fire place I had a bunch of venting materials and remote control that I HAVE NEVER ORDERED for $5632.42-($2467.85 cost of the fire place)=$3164.57 Our Response:   Our Sales Associate, Mike [redacted], remembers explaining the difference in cost of the fireplace box, and the ADDITIONAL NEW PARTS for the power venting and for the additional vent piping not purchased from us originally.  In addition to a misrepresentation of these facts, I have a hard time believing that Mr. [redacted] as a Minnesota Licensed Building Contractor experienced in home construction and fireplace installations would believe that a $1,000 power vent and $700 of additional vent pipe would only cost $200.  Please review the invoices proved in our previous response for the item detail.   Customer Response:I have NEVER ordered fire place venting parts from you (as stated in your response) and after I requested to return everything, you refused to take the order back.In addition, your workers came to my house to pick up venting materials that I have never ordered but you billed me for them, they picked them up (to reduce the bill amount), but you have never credited my account for all vent pipes that they picked up. Why?Our Response: Please identify our invoice and line items you are speaking of.  Our previous response included a copy of the credit memo at full price and without any depreciation or trucking charges for the installed fireplace that was returned.

I am rejecting this response because: It is untrue and Condor is leaving out the majority of the information from this case. They are using an old and inaccurate bid that was never updated, after various changes were made...and the down payment was made to secure our...

fireplace while the details were worked out. Their so-called bid lists out various options for a given project, not final selections and decisions. Even though we were promised that the changes would be reflected at the time of billing, by the project manager who was taken off the project, mid project, for miss-handling the project and major incompetency's on his part (including selling us a fireplace that didn't exist!!). Condor sent us one invoice and/or statement throughout the entire project and that was for the balance of $1000 that was reflected in THEIR invoice, mailed to us after the completion of the project. We never even received a statement showing what we had already paid during the project. Almost a year later, they are coming at us claiming we owe them more money and claiming they sent invoices indicating this, when in reality the first time we saw these invoices was this July and the date on the invoice indicates that they were also created this July, proving they never sent them to us last fall!!They have also since emailed us, on September 6th, with a random blank invoice (see attached), showing that the original amount due was $4450 and claiming we have only paid $2225, thus claiming we still owe them $2225. We have copies of all checks showing we have paid them $4225 to date (check images included). I emailed back promptly with the check numbers showing we had paid the $4225 and included the only invoice we ever received from Condor (also included), which says our balance is $1000, which we paid immediately (check image included), and I never received any response to my email.Our mistake was engaging in business with Condor and trusting their word on all aspects of this project...from prices, to record keeping, to quality of work, and follow through. There seems to be no accountability on their part, and with their ability to create any document they want, they seem to have zero issue creating what suites their story. Sadly, I don't even think the people who have taken this on at Condor are aware of the details of our project.I have yet to see an updated bid reflecting our discounted fireplace that was promised, the electrical work taken off that we contracted ourselves, or the reduction in stone work based on our tv insert and we are pretty much at the mercy of Condor to claim and create whatever they want.This company has unethical business practices, terrible customer relations, and zero accountability.  I want them to own their mistakes, both in the carry out of the job as well as their billing and invoicing practices, and close our account.Sincerely,[redacted]
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