Burnham Holdings, Inc.

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the responseIf no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]
Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:
They do provide the answer but are absolutely consumer unfriendly. They did not provide that answer that the thermostat should not use the 24V source on the boiler. They could have told me that when I first asked but chose not to.Their wiring diagram shows how to hook up a thermostat without a "C" wire. It does not say that one with a "C" wire cannot be hooked up. *** offered various hookup options. I had to check with my boiler manufacturer to find out if I can use those options. It takes this much effort to get a straight technical answer from ** ***. I wish they did not have to make this so difficult for customers of their products
Regards,
*** ***

[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and find that ** *** does not provide any support to the customers of their products.
Regards,
*** ***

As indicated prior, for the safety of the consumer, any technical information should only be discussed with qualified contractors and technicians

It is our policy, for safety purposes not to discuss
technical details with consumers.  The
consumer is clearly asking about internal wiring connections in which he/she
should not be touching on the boiler. 
A knowledgeable, licensed contractor would know if a terminal...

connection
is present.  They would review the wiring
diagram of the boiler and would be able to answer this question.  Therefore, for safety purposes a qualified contractor or
technician should be contacted. 
By the consumer’s statement it is apparent that they are
attempting to hook up a thermostat, (not supplied by [redacted]) which
requires [redacted], and this should NOT
be taken from the boiler, rather some other source.  If the consumer is unsure how to install his
thermostat, they should contact a qualified technician to do so.

To investigate this issue, [redacted] Boiler Company will need the serial number of the boiler claimed by owner as defective.

On behalf of [redacted] Boiler Company, we request that the homeowner provide the serial number of the boiler reference in the complaint.  Once the serial number is given the situation will be investigated.

Review: 3/1/2014We purchased a Burnham furnance about 10 years ago and recently experienced a crack and water leak. We immediately contacted Burnham Furnace which is out of [redacted], PA. to request a replacement just recently. Unfortunatley, we had to pay the $2,600 labor fee which is so unfair especially since we had to spend a couple of thousands to use alternative heating which was oil. We were told that they do not cover the labor which was completed by a local heating company in Connecticut.I would never use another Burnham Furnance product or recommend the product to anyone. Thank you,[redacted].Desired Settlement: Since this product was defective and very expensive, I do not feel I should have had to pay for labor cost to replace the original defective furnace. This company has a reputation.Please contact me as soon as possible at the contact information provided. The labor cost was $2,600.00.

Business

Response:

Review: Burnham/U S Boiler sold me an Alpine 210 boiler including an extended five year parts and service warranty. The warranty was a material condition of my purchase as at the time of sale the product was new technology. I fulfilled all my customer obligations and the equipment was installed under permit by a licensed professional in late 2009. It failed May 27, 2013, within the warranty period Despite numerous attempts to obtain assistance and mitigate damages with Burnham they have refused to support their product or honor their warranty. A search of the internet demonstrates this is a frequent problem for Burnham customers. The business is unethical and its sales and warranty practices are fraudulent. Their customer service staff are arrogant and unresponsive. Senior management of the company should realize they are destroying their brand.Desired Settlement: Refund the costs I incurred in curing their product defects and breach of warranty, currently $1500, and honor the remaining terms of the five and twelve year warranties.

Business

Response:

Burnham Holdings Legal Department is in the process of working with **. [redacted]. We are positive we will obtain a suitable outcome for both parties involved.

Review: I purchased 2 [redacted] boilers for my 2 family property in [redacted], NJ ([redacted]., [redacted], NJ [redacted]) approximately 5 years ago. They are gas steam boilers and were installed by [redacted] ([redacted], NJ, [redacted] (Owner), Phone: ###-###-####) with a final township inspection of the work on 1/29/2009.

The spreadsheet at the end of this letter shows a history of the number of visits to my house that took place over the past 6 months to try to resolve this issue. The letter below attempts to describe my history and frustration with this issue and [redacted] / Burnham. While the chart below is not completely comprehensive, i.e. the roofers were out there several more times than noted and [redacted] was out there 2 to 3 more times for the heat being out, it should clearly indicate how much effort this took for someone to tell me the heat exchanger was leaking which was clearly evident in February when the chimney was repl[redacted] by [redacted]. These visits are discussed in more detail below.

I have had little to no issues with the boilers until approximately December, 2013. The 2nd floor tenant began to complain that she has been calling [redacted] frequently due to the heat being out (the pilot light kept going out). At the time, I did not expect the issue to continue or that [redacted] would easily resolve the issue under my service contract with them. At the same time, the 2nd floor tenant also told me that it appears there was a roof leak. I assumed these to be mutually exclusive events, but later came to find that these issues were related. I spent $850 reflashing around the chimney and applying a silver coat to the main roof. This did not stop the problem. The roofer was at the house approximately 3 times trying to continue to diagnose the issue. He eventually stopped returning my calls when I was consistently calling him notifying him that the leak was still happening. I had another roofer go out and touched up the flashing. The issued remained.

Through the end of February, [redacted] was at the house at least 6 times with no success at addressing the issue. Not only did they not seem to possess the skills to diagnose any issue, they would give me service calls a week out for no heat calls. I started to engage [redacted] at the end of February (this was in conjunction with the roofing issue) to try to determine the issue with the pilot light when it was clear that [redacted] was not able or couldn’t determine the issue. [redacted], I believe one of [redacted]’s largest installers in the area, per [redacted]. who also recommended [redacted], said I just needed to put an electronic ignition in. This is without even looking at it. I asked him if he would like to look at it before determining that, but he said he has seen it many many times. He charged me $575 for the electronic ignition, which I later paid [redacted] another $216 to wire properly on 3/24/2014.

After the second roofer had gone to the house and after [redacted] had installed an electronic ignition, the issues were still remaining: there was still a leak and the heat kept going out. The heat going out was eventually resolved after [redacted] properly wired the electronic ignition on 3/24/2014. Between myself and another contractor, we determined that the ceiling “leak” was actually coming from the chimney. I engaged [redacted] again regarding the issue. He recommended changing the chimney, which was done on 3/4/2014. When [redacted] inspected the chimney, they noticed there was significant moisture on the chimney wall. [redacted] said the liner was damaged so we ran a completely new chimney since it could not be relined. It was clear to me that all of these issues were connected: A significant amount of water being used by the unit, the excessive moisture in the chimney, and the pilot light continuing to go out (due to water dripping on it). It seemed to be clear to me that there was a larger issue that someone was not finding which could only be the heat exchanger at this point. [redacted] assured me that the liner was the problem and it was not.

At this point, I’ve already noted to [redacted] ([redacted]) several times that I was concerned that we were just fixing symptoms and not the root cause. I told him/[redacted] again that I noticed that the automatic water feed on the unit (compared to the other unit in the house) was using a significant amount of water (about 40 gallons every week or so). There was not leak on the floor so he insisted that there was not a problem with the unit. Again, this is without going to house himself to look at the issue. The technicians he was sending out did not seem to be competent, which was clear when I learned they didn’t even wire the ignition properly. He did go to the house once with me to give me the estimate for the chimney, but only spent approximately 1 minute looking at the boiler itself. I’m not sure how such an experienced installer of a [redacted] Steam boiler could possibly believe that this amount of water being used is normal. [redacted] was at the house several times after the chimney was repl[redacted] and still could not diagnose the issue. I spoke with [redacted]mpany and [redacted] (the person I spoke to at [redacted] originally was no help and seemed to be annoyed that I was even talking to him. I spoke with [redacted] a second time and was essentially told they do not speak to consumers and I should speak to a distributor/contractor). The only somewhat useful information [redacted] told me was that [redacted] would go out to look at the issue with a contractor. I told this to [redacted] and he said he would call his distributor. He claimed to have spoken with him and said that he described the issue and the distributor said there is nothing wrong with the unit. I don’t believe [redacted] contacted the distributor. How can the distributor/manufacturer claim nothing is wrong with the unit without even looking at it? How can someone claim that the use of 40 gallons per week is normal when the average used is approximately 2 gallons per the automatic water feed company? At this point I was uninterested in dealing with [redacted] especially after several return calls without any success and issues with the installation of the chimney and the electronic ignition which I am still dealing with.

I contacted [redacted] Plumbing and Heating to take a look at the issue since [redacted] and [redacted] were not doing the job. [redacted] is a certified service agent for [redacted] I believe. Additionally, they must be one of the largest contractors in the area. The technician was able to address the fact that the heat was going out by properly wiring the electronic ignition. I also I tried to explain the larger issue to the technician that went out on 3/24/2014. [redacted] said this was one of their most senior technicians. I found this hard to believe after speaking to him. He didn’t even know what an automatic water feed was. I tried to explain to him the huge disparity in water usage. He told me that the water meter readings were the same on both units ( he said they both read 10 (gallons) ) so I said OK and we ended the service call. I went the next day to find out that the automatic water feed readings were way off. As I mentioned the unit in question using approximately 40 gallons of water a week. I paid $115 / per hour plus a $70 flat fee for that? Someone who doesn’t even who what automatic water feed is? Again the issue continues and additional damage is being done to my house and the unit.

I called [redacted] to voice my concerns after this and they sent out another technician on 4/4/2014 who I had to physically walk through the issue and show him the symptoms. He agreed that there was a leak in the heat exchanger. [redacted] engaged with [redacted] sales regarding the warranty on the heat exchanger. I received an estimate from [redacted] approximately 2 weeks after the service call. I assume this was due to he amount of time [redacted] / [redacted] took to answer the claim. [redacted] essentially gave me 2 options. One was to replace the heat exchanges and the other was to replace the entire unit. It appears [redacted] would provide a credit for the heat exchanger for either option, but I would pay for delivery and return shipping costs. My net benefit would apparently be $107.53 (Part - $482.53, Freight - $200, Return $175) per [redacted]. It took over 2 weeks for [redacted] to provide an estimate. Again, this time continues to cause more and more damage.

While I was waiting for [redacted] to provide an estimate, I contacted [redacted] at Burnham/[redacted]. I found her name as a POC on the Revdex.com website. I contacted her and she essentially would not talk to me either. A running theme from the [redacted] / Burnham company as you can see. She said I would need to talk to a distributor or contractor. I told her I wanted to speak to someone at [redacted] or Burnham. She eventually had a gentleman named [redacted] call me from [redacted]. This is not what I what I wanted, but I tried to explain my issue to him anyway. When I told him what my expectations were to resolve this issue, which were that I would like a new unit and for someone from [redacted] to come and install the unit, he literally laughed at me. Again, this is the [redacted] / Burnham customer service? He said he would look into it and get back to me. He returned my call eventually and said that one of the members of his team was working with [redacted] and they would provide options.

So, after I’ve spent $4739 and over 6 months dealing with this issue with little to no customer service from Burnham/[redacted], my benefit will be $107.53? Does this seem reasonable considering these circumstances? From my point of view, I am afraid that this will not be adequate especially considering that the lack of customer service and the incompetence of the [redacted] / Burnham service agents and installers which has led to continued damage to my home and the unit due to the amount of time this has taken to resolve. I am thoroughly and utterly disgusted at this point with dealing with this issue. I have spent close to $5000 without even resolving the issue and I have spent over a hundred hours dealing with it. I cannot continue to play phone tag and games with the distributors, contractors, and folks at Burnham, [redacted], etc. week after week and month after month who will not even talk to me.

Date Contractor Cost Description

1 Tuesday, December 24, 2013 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat, pilot light out

2 Wednesday, January 29, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat, pilot light out

3 Monday, February 10, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat, pilot light out

4 Tuesday, February 11, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat, pilot light out

5 Tuesday, February 11, 2014 OC Contractors $800.00 Main Roof Repair, Actually problem due to chimney and excessive steam causing condensation in attic which was leaking into 2nd floor apt.

6 Monday, February 24, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat, pilot light out

7 Tuesday, February 25, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat, pilot light out

8 Tuesday, February 25, 2014 [redacted] Heating $575.00 Electronic Ignition - Recommended w/o even looking at unt based on my description of issue over phone

9 Saturday, March 29, 2014 Nagy $50.00 Additional Roof Repair

10 Sunday, March 02, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat

11 Tuesday, March 04, 2014 [redacted] Heating $3,000.00 Chimney Replacement

12 Tuesday, March 18, 2014 [redacted] Heating Heat out, cleaned pressure loop, heat went out almost immediately again after they went

13 Wednesday, March 19, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat

14 Friday, March 21, 2014 [redacted] [redacted] called for No heat

15 Monday, March 24, 2014 [redacted] $216.00 Properly wired ignition and cleaned pilot sensor

16 Friday, April 04, 2014 [redacted] $98.00 Leak InvestigationDesired Settlement: I respectfully request a point of contact form [redacted] or Burnham (not a distributor, manufacturer, or contractor) to contact me to address this issue. I am requesting a new unit and a subsidy for the installation of the unit. If Burnham has an installer they would prefer to use for these situations, that is fine. I will not use [redacted], but would be comfortable with [redacted] performing the install.

Lastly, I truly recommend having a customer service representative at the [redacted] / Burnham company. The consumer is the one ultimately buying the [redacted] Burnham product. I am astonished [redacted] / Burnham does not have anyone that a consumer can call to discuss issues with

Business

Response:

A manufacturer’s representative contacted complainant today, May 6, 2014. He informed complainant that [redacted] will provide a new packaged boiler but he is responsible for all labor and other material connected with this installation. The cause of the leak is determined to be erosion. Erosion is not a manufacturing defect and therefore is not a warranty issue.

This supplying of a new packaged boiler is not to be construed as an admission of liability but is offered as goodwill.

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:

Review: This company sold us a completely defective boiler. Even though this boiler is litterally brand new and never fired once....it is already completely dead with a factory defect to the internal cast iron block core. When we contacted the [redacted] representative who contracted the sale and installation of this boiler, we were told that our warranty was null and void because the inept plumber they hired to install this device failed to test fire it before leaving. After more than a dozen calls and two months of waiting without any heat...we have still not been able to get our warranty coverage...this is a loss of 5-8,000 dollars in just equipment and installation value, not to mention the thousands we have lost in use of the property due to it being a veritable ice box with the whole family getting ill and pipes bursting.Desired Settlement: We have already lost thousands in loss of property use this winter...we'd at least like our defective unit replaced at dealer/manufacturer costs.

Business

Response:

To investigate this issue, [redacted] Boiler Company will need the serial number of the boiler claimed by owner as defective.

Review: I contacted [redacted] to obtain technical information about a Series 2 Gas Fired Boiler of their that I own. I initially contacted them online via their website for help on Nov 4. They refused to help me. I called them at [redacted] and spoke to their representative, Christine, on Nov 12 @ 4:20 PM. She refused to transfer me or provide me with the technical information that I seek about their product.

My questions are:

1. Is there a C terminal on the Series 2 Gas Fired Boiler (I sent photo to them) for me to hook up a thermostat ([redacted] or any other thermostat that requires a "C" wire) to?

2. What is the amperage draw of the existing setup of the Series 2 Gas Fired Boiler that I have? It is one zone, one circulator. (The photo I sent would have told them what the setup is).

This information is not in the manual that came with the boiler. They first claimed that I was asking for support for a product, the thermostat, that was not theirs. My questions are only regarding their product. I am not asking for service, parts, or anything else. I am asking the manufacturer of the product that I own give me information about their product.Desired Settlement: I want technical answers to my questions about their product for my own personal (non-commercial) use.

Business

Response:

It is our policy, for safety purposes not to discuss

technical details with consumers. The

consumer is clearly asking about internal wiring connections in which he/she

should not be touching on the boiler.

A knowledgeable, licensed contractor would know if a terminal connection

is present. They would review the wiring

diagram of the boiler and would be able to answer this question. Therefore, for safety purposes a qualified contractor or

technician should be contacted.

By the consumer’s statement it is apparent that they are

attempting to hook up a thermostat, (not supplied by [redacted]) which

requires [redacted], and this should NOT

be taken from the boiler, rather some other source. If the consumer is unsure how to install his

thermostat, they should contact a qualified technician to do so.

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:

They do provide the answer but are absolutely consumer unfriendly. They did not provide that answer that the thermostat should not use the 24V source on the boiler. They could have told me that when I first asked but chose not to.Their wiring diagram shows how to hook up a thermostat without a "C" wire. It does not say that one with a "C" wire cannot be hooked up. [redacted] offered various hookup options. I had to check with my boiler manufacturer to find out if I can use those options. It takes this much effort to get a straight technical answer from [redacted]. I wish they did not have to make this so difficult for customers of their products.

Regards,

Business

Response:

As indicated prior, for the safety of the consumer, any technical information should only be discussed with qualified contractors and technicians.

Consumer

Response:

[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that [redacted] does not provide any support to the customers of their products.

Regards,

Review: Failing to honor a lifetime nipple leakage on a steam gas boiler after 1month of complaints. The warranty clearly states repair or replace. Confirmation of leakage by the homeowner's contractor.

Burnham representative yesterday inspected the unit saw the leakage and is ruling out that it is not a nipple leakage but due to pressure is[redacted].Desired Settlement: As stated in the contract. Repair or replace.

Business

Response:

**. [redacted], **. [redacted]'s contractor, and his partner , met a tech rep from [redacted] at the job site. The boiler was inspected and confirmed as corrosion. Corrosion is not covered by warranty, as it is not a manufacturer's defect. As mention prior, corrosion is not deemed a manufacturer's defect but a system is[redacted]. Therefore, not covered by written warranty.

Also, steam boilers, other than nipples leaks carry a 10-year limited warranty to protect against manufacturer's defect. Therefore, if this was a manufacturer's defect, (corrosion is not) limited warranty has expired.

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because: Initially the voicemail message left by the tech ([redacted]) clearly states that there is a nipple leakage , he also spoke about the lower gravity

pressure level when the water was at it's highest level, then he got very technical in order to confuse the is[redacted]. He did not ruled out it was due to corrosion.

Review: We recently purchased a [redacted] boiler for our home in [redacted] WA. The installer [redacted] ([redacted]) installed the boiler as per factory instructions. The boiler was never able to even be fired up because it had a factory defect that was so severe that the boiler was essentially unrepairable. The entire firebox filled with water due to an internal leak or crack in the cast iron interior. [redacted] came out and verified that this brand new boiler was beyond repair. The weather has been freezing cold, my wife and I are getting sick from the cold and our pipes are bursting. Yet [redacted] boiler refuses to even return our calls. We have registered the boiler with the company and given the serial number so we should be elligable for a full warranty replacement...but they will not even return our calls and all we can contact at the company is the customer service voicemail. We intend to litigate this matter if either us is unable to work due to illness related to this failed boiler.Desired Settlement: We are owed a brand new replacement for this factory defect and since this is winter, we need this taken care of immediaetly. Our pipes are bursting and both of us are getting sick from the cold...it is 40 degrees in our house now....and has been for over a month! We've been attempting to contact [redacted] boiler for 45 days now!

Business

Response:

On behalf of [redacted] Boiler Company, we request that the homeowner provide the serial number of the boiler reference in the complaint. Once the serial number is given the situation will be investigated.