Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2014/10/17) */
Dear [redacted],
I am responding to your letter for case #[redacted]
I have an entire file on this gentleman, I will send it over to you in a 2nd email tomorrow.
Service Record:
07/17/2013 - Free Estimate Given By Scott Howe...
(estimator)
10/10/2013 - Customer signed and dated or detailed contract (I will send copy)
11/18/2013 - Drain Tile installation begins
11/20/2013 - Drain Tile finished
11/21/2013 - Service Department Finalized inspection with the city, re-routed exit line per homeowners request and finished cement in the bathroom. Job 100% Complete
11/25/2014 - Homeowner made his final payment in full by credit card via phone to our office
04/23/2014 - Service department came out and; Fixed a loose fitting on the exit line, chipped concrete out farther to make a larger vapor gap on the East wall for homeowner @ NO CHARGE ($150.00 normal service charge for non guaranteed items). [redacted] asked at this time if we would fix his leaky water main. JR the Service Manager told him "I'm sorry sir but you never said anything till now, 6 months later...We do NOT cover anything that far after a date of install. We also are NOT responsible for plumbing or resulting damages per our contract. We also do NOT pay for plumbers to fix it. Since it is impossible to tell when the leak started we cannot do anything because there is NO way for us or him to know what caused the damage." It was noted that his water main is VERY old and corroded. JR noticed a small drip while he was there at this service call. No drip was noticed any other time we were at this home.
05/19/2014 - [redacted] called our office at 2:35PM to complain about the water main and try to get service to come back out again. He left a message for service to call him back.
05/27/2014 - Service call ed and spoke to him about the "issues" he was having and explained again that nothing is going to be done about the water main. He said he had an issue with the amount of water spraying out of the vent pipe then and wants some one out to look at it or fix it.
06/10/2014 - Service went out to look at a vent hole in the sump basin that the homeowner thought was spraying to much water in the basin. We replaced the vent pipe and re-drilled a new smaller vent hole per the manufacturer.
Once again he brought up the old water main that has a leak and once again he was told we will not do anything for that problem since we did not cause it nor would it be warrantied anyways. We completed another service call at NO CHARGE ($150.00 service call waived)
06/12/2014 - [redacted] called our office 1:25PM and left a message for service
06/25/2014 - [redacted] called our office and left a message for service
07/18/2014 - [redacted] called our office 2:30PM and talked to JR (Service Manager) and made another appointment to come out and look at "wetness" on floor. JR told him if it's wet because of the water main it is NOT a guaranteed item.
They set an appointment for 07-25 between 12-1PM approximately.
07/25/2014 - [redacted] the service tech went to the home again and explained that there is NO problem with the drain tile system and there is no work to be preformed. The leaky water main is his responsibility. As far as Dampness or Condensation they are NOT covered by our warranty what so ever. The Guarantee certificate has it in big bold RED letters stating it is not guaranteed. Concrete is porous and can sweat. The temperature of ground water in Minnesota is always 55 degrees and the average home temp is 65-75 degrees. Those 2 temp differences cause sweating.
(example like a soda pop can sweating). In our info package that he signed for states that he is responsible for sealing the concrete 14 days after the concrete is installed. We can seal the concrete for $4.00 per linear foot which was offered at the time of his free estimate, it was declined on the contract. There was NO CHARGE for this service call ($150.00 service call waived)
07/28/2014 - JR the Service Manager talked to [redacted] one last time and politely told him we can no longer keep coming back to look at a drip in a water main that was not our fault and has NO guarantee. If he has any other issues that are covered under our warranty that we would be there with out a doubt to stand behind our work.
09/25/2014 - The Revdex.com Revdex.com sent us a letter stating of his complaints.
09/26/2014 - I Jeremy Orton, General Manager, started investigating the claim. I talked with our office staff, Service Manager JR and the service techs regarding this case.
10/06/2014 - I received another letter from the Revdex.com Revdex.com asking about how the claim is coming.
10/16/2014 - I am emailing in response to this letter
It is our stand that we have done everything in our power to make this customer satisfied within reason. All of his concerns have been addressed and repaired if required. The only outstanding issue is his water main. We will not guarantee or repair the old water main that drips. If [redacted] thought we had damaged his water main at the time of install he should have contacted our office immediately about that issue. He did not, he waited 6 months to bring it up. I spoke to the Foreman and he stated that NO damage was caused to his water main at the time of install.
Unfortunately his water main is old and corroded and now has a small drip but we can not perform free services at anyone's home because something failed months after we preformed work on there home or as the contract states any plumbing that is in the concrete. The water main line comes under the concrete and through the floor up and out to a meter and valve. We do NOT touch the meter or valve.
We offer a lifetime guarantee on our draintile systems, we do not offer a free home maintenance program. I'm sure he can call a plumber and have it fixed for a reasonable price. Homes require maintenance and parts don't last forever. No further action will be taken by our organization for this claim.
Thank You,
[redacted]
General Manager
General Contractor #[redacted]
Rite-Way Waterproofing
[redacted]
Lino Lakes, MN 55014
[redacted] Office
[redacted] Cell
[redacted] Fax
[redacted]@rite-waywaterproofing.com
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2014/10/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
First, I am a little perplexed by the "NO CHARGE for $150.00 service call" statements, as they were returning to complete something that was not functioning properly or not per manufacturer specifications.
Second, the initial time I showed J.R. the wet location, he drilled some extra holes in the floor at that site. If it was only condensation, I don't understand why he would have done any extra work at that site. I do understand the exclusion of condensation guarantees and do know the difference between condensation and wet. I am most concerned about mold developing in the wet area. The guarantee states that it does cover "any water leakage or flow"
Third, when the service technician [redacted] was inspecting the wet issue, he took pictures and although I don't recall the exact wordage, he gave me the impression that this issue would be looked at.
Fourth, the water main valve was not leaking before their construction work. The water main valve was leaking right after their construction work.
I feel like I am short one $150.00 service call.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 13, 2014/11/06) */
Hello [redacted],
Please see attached documents in reference to this case.
See page 21/21 it is the original contract he signed. The first large paragraph states " The guarantee does NOT cover condensation or dampness on walls or floors"
Merriam Webster Dictionary:
condensation
noun
: small drops of water that form on a cold surface
: the process by which a gas cools and becomes a liquid
: the act or process of making something (such as a piece of writing) shorter : the act or process of condensing something
Damp/Dampness
noun: slight wetness
Full Definition of DAMP
1: moisture: a: humidity, dampness, barchaic: fog, mist
Through these definitions it is obvious that he has a dampness and condensation issue. It occurs on 90% of draintile systems due to concrete being porous. Our Guarantee covers the home to be free of ground water for the life of the home (standing water, flowing water, walls or floors that have ground water that has not been captured by our draintile is what is guaranteed. Wet, damp, cold, moist, ect. concrete is NOT covered. The systems is NOT filling all the way up with water and causing it to come on the floor. That is why JR ([redacted]) opened the floor to prove it to you. Concrete is porous and WILL sweat if not sealed. In the optional items category on the contract you signed, there was a section to pay an additional cost to have us ADD concrete sealer after the concrete is cured. You chose NO. The letter you received upon completion also specifically states that ALL concrete must be sealed after it cured. We make it optional to try to save people money so it can be done by either Rite-Way or the home owner. You chose to NOT have us do it.
Our FINAL standpoint is "The Contract", in which [redacted] signed, stating that his complaint is NOT a warrantied item. It should be noted that this will not affect our rating at the Revdex.com because its not something we are trying to brush off or not take responsibility for, its simply something that is NOT a warrantied.
The water main issue also falls under our contract. See page 21/21 again, see the bottom section. "Rite-Way is NOT responsible for;" "obstructions embedded in the concrete floor such as; Water and Sewer Pipes." I feel it is self explanatory. The reason we have it clearly stated in the contract is that we are NOT responsible for resulting damages. The water line/main is definitely in the concrete floor.
These 2 types of issues have been addressed in the past at the Anoka County Courthouse. The judges have ruled in favor of Rite-way Waterproofing because our contracts clearly state we do NOT cover dampness or condensation nor are we responsible for resulting damages to water or sewer pipes.
Thank You,
[redacted]
General Manager
General Contractor #[redacted]
Rite-Way Waterproofing
[redacted]
Lino Lakes, MN 55014
[redacted] Office
[redacted] Cell
[redacted] Fax
[redacted]@rite-waywaterproofing.com
Final Consumer Response /* (3000, 15, 2014/11/17) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Simply put, my floor is still wet and my faucet still leaks. As stated, they seem to be most interested in their Revdex.com ratings. There is another forum thru which potential customers seek potential vendors called social media. And I have been asked, and will be asked in the future, if I was satisfied with the work done on my basement.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2014/10/17) */
Dear [redacted],
I am responding to your letter for case #[redacted]
I have an entire file on this gentleman, I will send it over to you in a 2nd email tomorrow.
Service Record:
07/17/2013 - Free Estimate Given By Scott Howe...
(estimator)
10/10/2013 - Customer signed and dated or detailed contract (I will send copy)
11/18/2013 - Drain Tile installation begins
11/20/2013 - Drain Tile finished
11/21/2013 - Service Department Finalized inspection with the city, re-routed exit line per homeowners request and finished cement in the bathroom. Job 100% Complete
11/25/2014 - Homeowner made his final payment in full by credit card via phone to our office
04/23/2014 - Service department came out and; Fixed a loose fitting on the exit line, chipped concrete out farther to make a larger vapor gap on the East wall for homeowner @ NO CHARGE ($150.00 normal service charge for non guaranteed items). [redacted] asked at this time if we would fix his leaky water main. JR the Service Manager told him "I'm sorry sir but you never said anything till now, 6 months later...We do NOT cover anything that far after a date of install. We also are NOT responsible for plumbing or resulting damages per our contract. We also do NOT pay for plumbers to fix it. Since it is impossible to tell when the leak started we cannot do anything because there is NO way for us or him to know what caused the damage." It was noted that his water main is VERY old and corroded. JR noticed a small drip while he was there at this service call. No drip was noticed any other time we were at this home.
05/19/2014 - [redacted] called our office at 2:35PM to complain about the water main and try to get service to come back out again. He left a message for service to call him back.
05/27/2014 - Service call ed and spoke to him about the "issues" he was having and explained again that nothing is going to be done about the water main. He said he had an issue with the amount of water spraying out of the vent pipe then and wants some one out to look at it or fix it.
06/10/2014 - Service went out to look at a vent hole in the sump basin that the homeowner thought was spraying to much water in the basin. We replaced the vent pipe and re-drilled a new smaller vent hole per the manufacturer.
Once again he brought up the old water main that has a leak and once again he was told we will not do anything for that problem since we did not cause it nor would it be warrantied anyways. We completed another service call at NO CHARGE ($150.00 service call waived)
06/12/2014 - [redacted] called our office 1:25PM and left a message for service
06/25/2014 - [redacted] called our office and left a message for service
07/18/2014 - [redacted] called our office 2:30PM and talked to JR (Service Manager) and made another appointment to come out and look at "wetness" on floor. JR told him if it's wet because of the water main it is NOT a guaranteed item.
They set an appointment for 07-25 between 12-1PM approximately.
07/25/2014 - [redacted] the service tech went to the home again and explained that there is NO problem with the drain tile system and there is no work to be preformed. The leaky water main is his responsibility. As far as Dampness or Condensation they are NOT covered by our warranty what so ever. The Guarantee certificate has it in big bold RED letters stating it is not guaranteed. Concrete is porous and can sweat. The temperature of ground water in Minnesota is always 55 degrees and the average home temp is 65-75 degrees. Those 2 temp differences cause sweating.
(example like a soda pop can sweating). In our info package that he signed for states that he is responsible for sealing the concrete 14 days after the concrete is installed. We can seal the concrete for $4.00 per linear foot which was offered at the time of his free estimate, it was declined on the contract. There was NO CHARGE for this service call ($150.00 service call waived)
07/28/2014 - JR the Service Manager talked to [redacted] one last time and politely told him we can no longer keep coming back to look at a drip in a water main that was not our fault and has NO guarantee. If he has any other issues that are covered under our warranty that we would be there with out a doubt to stand behind our work.
09/25/2014 - The Revdex.com Revdex.com sent us a letter stating of his complaints.
09/26/2014 - I Jeremy Orton, General Manager, started investigating the claim. I talked with our office staff, Service Manager JR and the service techs regarding this case.
10/06/2014 - I received another letter from the Revdex.com Revdex.com asking about how the claim is coming.
10/16/2014 - I am emailing in response to this letter
It is our stand that we have done everything in our power to make this customer satisfied within reason. All of his concerns have been addressed and repaired if required. The only outstanding issue is his water main. We will not guarantee or repair the old water main that drips. If [redacted] thought we had damaged his water main at the time of install he should have contacted our office immediately about that issue. He did not, he waited 6 months to bring it up. I spoke to the Foreman and he stated that NO damage was caused to his water main at the time of install.
Unfortunately his water main is old and corroded and now has a small drip but we can not perform free services at anyone's home because something failed months after we preformed work on there home or as the contract states any plumbing that is in the concrete. The water main line comes under the concrete and through the floor up and out to a meter and valve. We do NOT touch the meter or valve.
We offer a lifetime guarantee on our draintile systems, we do not offer a free home maintenance program. I'm sure he can call a plumber and have it fixed for a reasonable price. Homes require maintenance and parts don't last forever. No further action will be taken by our organization for this claim.
Thank You,
[redacted]
General Manager
General Contractor #[redacted]
Rite-Way Waterproofing
[redacted]
Lino Lakes, MN 55014
[redacted] Office
[redacted] Cell
[redacted] Fax
[redacted]@rite-waywaterproofing.com
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2014/10/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
First, I am a little perplexed by the "NO CHARGE for $150.00 service call" statements, as they were returning to complete something that was not functioning properly or not per manufacturer specifications.
Second, the initial time I showed J.R. the wet location, he drilled some extra holes in the floor at that site. If it was only condensation, I don't understand why he would have done any extra work at that site. I do understand the exclusion of condensation guarantees and do know the difference between condensation and wet. I am most concerned about mold developing in the wet area. The guarantee states that it does cover "any water leakage or flow"
Third, when the service technician [redacted] was inspecting the wet issue, he took pictures and although I don't recall the exact wordage, he gave me the impression that this issue would be looked at.
Fourth, the water main valve was not leaking before their construction work. The water main valve was leaking right after their construction work.
I feel like I am short one $150.00 service call.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 13, 2014/11/06) */
Hello [redacted],
Please see attached documents in reference to this case.
See page 21/21 it is the original contract he signed. The first large paragraph states " The guarantee does NOT cover condensation or dampness on walls or floors"
Merriam Webster Dictionary:
condensation
noun
: small drops of water that form on a cold surface
: the process by which a gas cools and becomes a liquid
: the act or process of making something (such as a piece of writing) shorter : the act or process of condensing something
Damp/Dampness
noun: slight wetness
Full Definition of DAMP
1: moisture: a: humidity, dampness, barchaic: fog, mist
Through these definitions it is obvious that he has a dampness and condensation issue. It occurs on 90% of draintile systems due to concrete being porous. Our Guarantee covers the home to be free of ground water for the life of the home (standing water, flowing water, walls or floors that have ground water that has not been captured by our draintile is what is guaranteed. Wet, damp, cold, moist, ect. concrete is NOT covered. The systems is NOT filling all the way up with water and causing it to come on the floor. That is why JR ([redacted]) opened the floor to prove it to you. Concrete is porous and WILL sweat if not sealed. In the optional items category on the contract you signed, there was a section to pay an additional cost to have us ADD concrete sealer after the concrete is cured. You chose NO. The letter you received upon completion also specifically states that ALL concrete must be sealed after it cured. We make it optional to try to save people money so it can be done by either Rite-Way or the home owner. You chose to NOT have us do it.
Our FINAL standpoint is "The Contract", in which [redacted] signed, stating that his complaint is NOT a warrantied item. It should be noted that this will not affect our rating at the Revdex.com because its not something we are trying to brush off or not take responsibility for, its simply something that is NOT a warrantied.
The water main issue also falls under our contract. See page 21/21 again, see the bottom section. "Rite-Way is NOT responsible for;" "obstructions embedded in the concrete floor such as; Water and Sewer Pipes." I feel it is self explanatory. The reason we have it clearly stated in the contract is that we are NOT responsible for resulting damages. The water line/main is definitely in the concrete floor.
These 2 types of issues have been addressed in the past at the Anoka County Courthouse. The judges have ruled in favor of Rite-way Waterproofing because our contracts clearly state we do NOT cover dampness or condensation nor are we responsible for resulting damages to water or sewer pipes.
Thank You,
[redacted]
General Manager
General Contractor #[redacted]
Rite-Way Waterproofing
[redacted]
Lino Lakes, MN 55014
[redacted] Office
[redacted] Cell
[redacted] Fax
[redacted]@rite-waywaterproofing.com
Final Consumer Response /* (3000, 15, 2014/11/17) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Simply put, my floor is still wet and my faucet still leaks. As stated, they seem to be most interested in their Revdex.com ratings. There is another forum thru which potential customers seek potential vendors called social media. And I have been asked, and will be asked in the future, if I was satisfied with the work done on my basement.