Cackle Hatchery

Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: a person should be charged a "non-refundable" fee for getting NOTHINGThe owner is a short-sighted THIEF! Sincerely, [redacted]

We understand the frustrations of losses through the mail which is unfortunately something we cannot completely preventThis is why we have a 100% live arrival guarantee, so that customers are not at a loss of their money if such losses should occurEvery single shipment is different, and we absolutely do not guarantee to have a heat pack in every shipment as the circumstances are different for eachThere are times when a heat pack would actually cause them to suffocateWe choose to use different size boxes, sometimes extra bedding, sometimes we use heat packs, and sometimes we tape some of the holes on the boxPacking is solely at our discretionOur live guarantee is posted on our website, and states that we will either reship or refund, but that we cannot ship just a few chicksWe do require a minimum of chicks for a reshipSo if the customer loses we would require them to purchase more to make a full order of to shipThis is totally up to the customerIf they do not wish to purchase more then we will refund them for their bird lossThe minimum of is for the safety of the baby chicks, especially since they already incurred losses in the first placeI explained this policy to the customer, but she was very upset with the answers so she ended up saying that I could go ahead and refund her for her lossesHere is the policy as stated on our website.100% LIVE DELIVERY GUARANTEEDWe guarantee that you will receive full count of live, healthy poultry according to this guaranteeWe often place extra chicks in each box to help fulfill this guaranteeHowever, if losses should occur in shipment and you do receive less live chicks than you ordered, we will make an adjustment either by replacing poultry (we are not able to ship just a few chicks for replacement) or process a refund for the chick price or credit to another order you are placing for the current year

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 9, 2016/05/18) */ Most chickens have some levels of coccidiosis whether it is symptomatic or notCoccidiosis at some level is in the digestive system of most all chickens and their immune system keeps it in checkStress and other factors can cause the balance of the coccidiosis to get out of hand and then can become deadlyCertainly a stressful trip can bring this to an unbalance level that the chick's immune system cannot keep in check without some medicated feed or corrid or sulfa treatment to the waterMost places always recommend medicated feed for prevention to help keep coccidiosis in balanceNothing really cures cossidiosis and the trick is to keep it in checkWe provide a very detailed care sheet that covers care and medications that is included with the chicks on arrival and also when we confirm their order at the beginning we email directing to the customers asking them click on a link for baby chick care /chick-care-instructions and tips for mail order chicksNow we did have some email issues this year with about 4% of emails not reaching the customersATT.net and some of southwestern [redacted] emails were not going through The Sumatra are one of our rare breeds and are more delicate requiring some special attention for several days to make sure they get off to a good startI do not see any notes in the customers file about what was talked aboutThe issue of loss may not even been a coccidiosis issue, very well could be though, I just don't have all the details of care that was given after arrival We will try to improve education on cossidiosis on the above references link page As far as the customer saying there is no answer, that is possibleOnce all the phone lines are busy and the holding in the bin then a customers will get a continued ring waiting for a line to open upThis time of the year we work 24/with most of our employees working overtime to take care of our customersI am writing this at am in the morning to give to my office manager to forward as response to the complaint We certainly want our customers to have a good experience raising poultryWe would be happy to split the cost of a new order of Sumatras for the customer Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 11, 2016/05/18) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) I have heard that cackle hatchery has been telling people that all chickens have coccithis is not truecocci can be cured with coccidiostatsthey are giving customers information about coccino other hatchery or breeder I have received chicks from has cocci in their flocksi do not have cocci in my flocksi have been raising chickens since and I do recognize cocci when I see it..it is very evidenti have searched their website for information of them explaining the cocci infection in their flocks and have found nonewhen I recieved my birds from them I did put them on a medicated chick startermedicated chick starter does not cure already infected birdsin order to cure infected birds you must dose them properly with a coccidiostat and you must remove medicated chick starter as it will interfere with the coccidiostat treatmentthis hatchery did not have a cocci problem in their flocks last yearproof that chickens do NOT carry coccithe fact that there has been absolutely NO complaints of cocci from fellow chicken group members of other hatcheries also proves thisTheir claim that all chickens have cocci to some extent or other is completely falsecocci can be eradicated with proper medication treatment and cleaning practicesI never received an email and I attempted to call them every day for a week to resolve this issue to no availI understand that commercial hatcheries are busy, however that is not my fault that I cant reach someone on the phone when I have a problemthey need to hire someone to answer their phonesI have never had any issues contacting any other hatchery in the past, and I have never had any problem contacting cackle hatchery in previous yearsmany people have been complaining about not being able to contact cackle hatchery and get their order refunded due to lossesi do understand the delicacy of sumatra chicks, I am not new to raising birdsas I said, I also recognize cocci when I see it, its very obviouswhy should I settle for splitting the cost of a new shipment of sumatras when they have been giving others a full refund? this makes no sense to me and very much sounds like they are attempting to single me outI want a full refund on the sumatra chicks I ordereddue to this disease that came onto my property from their hatchery and killed nearly birds, I should at least be entitled to a full refund! Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 13, 2016/05/23) */ I am sorry the customer is misinformed, but almost all chickens carry CoccidiosisYou only notice it if it gets out of check or out of balance in the chickens gut and then causes symptomatic illness for the bird which makes you noticeCoccidiosis is never cured and is an endless cycle where every chickens live, it is only managed to keep the levels at a point that the host chicken can manage and develop immunitiesOne of Cackle Hatchery's objectives in our breeding flocks is to continue to breed flocks that can produce good immunities to common poultry health issuesGenerally, we do refunds on late deliveries or on time deliveries that somehow were chilled or overheated by the post office and arrive in distress or some dead on arriveThis follows are standard guarantees within our policyAccording to our records they arrived on time and no visible signs of distress upon deliveryWe still will offer 1/cost of reshipment unless there is something I am missing in the factsSincerely, [redacted] Final Consumer Response / [redacted] (4200, 15, 2016/05/30) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) yes the first day the chicks arrived they were all alive aside from two that I assumed were lost during shipmenti recieved my chicks from the post office very late at night and spent an hour dipping beaks and making sure everyone got electrolytes as usualthe next morning chicks were lethargic and a hand full were deadi assumed it was stress from shipping and continued with electrolytes and feed with the remaining chicksi also attempted to contact cackle that day, twice, to no availlater that day more chicks were dead or dyingI then treated with a coccidiostatover the next three days more diedThese chicks were infected with active cocci when they were recievedI have never had any cocci issues with my current flock on my current propertyobviously these chicks did NOT have any immunities to coccithe fact remains that I was unable to contact them for a solid week of trying every extension on their phone lines, and the fact that they have told many people I know that their chicks do have cocci and needed to be treated as soon as they arrived, AFTER the fact! this is unacceptable business practicethe least they could do is include a note explaining the possibilities of a cocci infection in their flocks and a recommendation that chicks be treated immediately after arrival

We are very sorry about the dead arrival, but we make it clear before the order is placed that the fee is non refundableThe reason for this is because no matter what happens it is still costing us money to proceed with this process in getting a permit, and the only way we agreed to start shipping to Hawaii in the first placeHere is what is shown on our website cacklehatchery.com "Q? Special Requirements for Shipping to Hawaii: AThey are as follows: Hawaii orders must be placed at least four weeks in advance and we can only ship chickensWe do not ship turkey, water fowl and other poultry to the state of HawaiiThere is a $non-refundable processing fee for all Hawaii ordersThe order must have at least $dollars worth of birds and/or products to qualify, not counting the processing fee or shipping charges." This is also listed as an item on your invoice "non-refundable" so that it is clearIf that were a problem with you then you had a choice to not place the order with our company

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and find that I will accept it because I have already purchased chicks from another company This company has been awful to deal and the customer service from their office manager is appalling They will never get my business again
Sincerely,
*** ***

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2016/05/18) */
Most chickens have some levels of coccidiosis whether it is symptomatic or not. Coccidiosis at some level is in the digestive system of most all chickens and their immune system keeps it in check. Stress and other factors can cause the balance...

of the coccidiosis to get out of hand and then can become deadly. Certainly a stressful trip can bring this to an unbalance level that the chick's immune system cannot keep in check without some medicated feed or corrid or sulfa treatment to the water. Most places always recommend medicated feed for prevention to help keep coccidiosis in balance. Nothing really cures cossidiosis and the trick is to keep it in check. We provide a very detailed care sheet that covers care and medications that is included with the chicks on arrival and also when we confirm their order at the beginning we email directing to the customers asking them click on a link for baby chick care /chick-care-instructions and tips for mail order chicks. Now we did have some email issues this year with about 4% of emails not reaching the customers. ATT.net and some of southwestern [redacted] emails were not going through.
The Sumatra are one of our rare breeds and are more delicate requiring some special attention for several days to make sure they get off to a good start. I do not see any notes in the customers file about what was talked about. The issue of loss may not even been a coccidiosis issue, very well could be though, I just don't have all the details of care that was given after arrival.
We will try to improve education on cossidiosis on the above references link page.
As far as the customer saying there is no answer, that is possible. Once all the phone lines are busy and the 3 holding in the bin then a customers will get a continued ring waiting for a line to open up. This time of the year we work 24/7 with most of our employees working overtime to take care of our customers. I am writing this at 1 am in the morning to give to my office manager to forward as response to the complaint.
We certainly want our customers to have a good experience raising poultry. We would be happy to split the cost of a new order of Sumatras for the customer.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2016/05/18) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I have heard that cackle hatchery has been telling people that all chickens have cocci. this is not true. cocci can be cured with coccidiostats. they are giving customers false information about cocci. no other hatchery or breeder I have received chicks from has cocci in their flocks. I do not have cocci in my flocks. I have been raising chickens since 1975 and I do recognize cocci when I see it..it is very evident. I have searched their website for information of them explaining the cocci infection in their flocks and have found none. when I recieved my birds from them I did put them on a medicated chick starter. medicated chick starter does not cure already infected birds. in order to cure infected birds you must dose them properly with a coccidiostat and you must remove medicated chick starter as it will interfere with the coccidiostat treatment. this hatchery did not have a cocci problem in their flocks last year. proof that chickens do NOT carry cocci. the fact that there has been absolutely NO complaints of cocci from fellow chicken group members of other hatcheries also proves this. Their claim that all chickens have cocci to some extent or other is completely false. cocci can be eradicated with proper medication treatment and cleaning practices. I never received an email and I attempted to call them every day for a week to resolve this issue to no avail. I understand that commercial hatcheries are busy, however that is not my fault that I cant reach someone on the phone when I have a problem. they need to hire someone to answer their phones. I have never had any issues contacting any other hatchery in the past, and I have never had any problem contacting cackle hatchery in previous years. many people have been complaining about not being able to contact cackle hatchery and get their order refunded due to losses. I do understand the delicacy of sumatra chicks, I am not new to raising birds. as I said, I also recognize cocci when I see it, its very obvious. why should I settle for splitting the cost of a new shipment of sumatras when they have been giving others a full refund? this makes no sense to me and very much sounds like they are attempting to single me out. I want a full refund on the sumatra chicks I ordered. due to this disease that came onto my property from their hatchery and killed nearly 50 birds, I should at least be entitled to a full refund!
Final Business Response /* (4000, 13, 2016/05/23) */
I am sorry the customer is misinformed, but almost all chickens carry Coccidiosis. You only notice it if it gets out of check or out of balance in the chickens gut and then causes symptomatic illness for the bird which makes you notice. Coccidiosis is never cured and is an endless cycle where every chickens live, it is only managed to keep the levels at a point that the host chicken can manage and develop immunities. One of Cackle Hatchery's objectives in our breeding flocks is to continue to breed flocks that can produce good immunities to common poultry health issues. Generally, we do refunds on late deliveries or on time deliveries that somehow were chilled or overheated by the post office and arrive in distress or some dead on arrive. This follows are standard guarantees within our policy. According to our records they arrived on time and no visible signs of distress upon delivery. We still will offer 1/2 cost of reshipment unless there is something I am missing in the facts. Sincerely, [redacted]
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 15, 2016/05/30) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
yes the first day the chicks arrived they were all alive aside from two that I assumed were lost during shipment. I recieved my chicks from the post office very late at night and spent an hour dipping beaks and making sure everyone got electrolytes as usual. the next morning chicks were lethargic and a hand full were dead. I assumed it was stress from shipping and continued with electrolytes and feed with the remaining chicks. I also attempted to contact cackle that day, twice, to no avail. later that day 5 more chicks were dead or dying. I then treated with a coccidiostat. over the next three days more died. These chicks were infected with active cocci when they were recieved. I have never had any cocci issues with my current flock on my current property. obviously these chicks did NOT have any immunities to cocci. the fact remains that I was unable to contact them for a solid week of trying every extension on their phone lines, and the fact that they have told many people I know that their chicks do have cocci and needed to be treated as soon as they arrived, AFTER the fact! this is unacceptable business practice. the least they could do is include a note explaining the possibilities of a cocci infection in their flocks and a recommendation that chicks be treated immediately after arrival.

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because: a person should be charged a "non-refundable" fee for getting NOTHING. The owner is a short-sighted THIEF!
Sincerely,
[redacted]

We are very sorry about the dead arrival, but we make it clear before the order is placed that the fee is non refundable. The reason for this is because no matter what happens it is still costing us money to proceed with this process in getting a permit, and the only way we agreed to start...

shipping to Hawaii in the first place. Here is what is shown on our website cacklehatchery.com "Q? Special Requirements for Shipping to Hawaii:
A. They are as follows: Hawaii orders must be placed at least four weeks in advance and we can only ship chickens. We do not ship turkey, water fowl and other poultry to the state of Hawaii. There is a $25 non-refundable processing fee for all Hawaii orders. The order must have at least $100 dollars worth of birds and/or products to qualify, not counting the processing fee or shipping charges." This is also listed as an item on your invoice "non-refundable" so that it is clear. If that were a problem with you then you had a choice to not place the order with our company.

We understand the frustrations of losses through the mail which is unfortunately something we cannot completely prevent. This is why we have a 100% live arrival guarantee, so that customers are not at a loss of their money if such losses should occur. Every single shipment is different, and we...

absolutely do not guarantee to have a heat pack in every shipment as the circumstances are different for each. There are times when a heat pack would actually cause them to suffocate. We choose to use different size boxes, sometimes extra bedding, sometimes we use heat packs, and sometimes we tape some of the holes on the box. Packing is solely at our discretion. Our live guarantee is posted on our website, and states that we will either reship or refund, but that we cannot ship just a few chicks. We do require a normal minimum of 15 chicks for a reship. So if the customer loses 11 we would require them to purchase 4 more to make a full order of 15 to ship. This is totally up to the customer. If they do not wish to purchase more then we will refund them for their 11 bird loss. The minimum of 15 is for the safety of the baby chicks, especially since they already incurred losses in the first place. I explained this policy to the customer, but she was very upset with the answers so she ended up saying that I could go ahead and refund her for her losses. Here is the policy as stated on our website.100% LIVE DELIVERY GUARANTEEDWe guarantee that you will receive full count of live, healthy poultry according to this guarantee. We often place extra chicks in each box to help fulfill this guarantee. However, if losses should occur in shipment and you do receive less live chicks than you ordered, we will make an adjustment either by replacing poultry (we are not able to ship just a few chicks for replacement) or process a refund for the chick price or credit to another order you are placing for the current year.