Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/03/24) */
To Whom It May Concern,
We are sorry to hear about the misunderstanding that the [redacted] family is experiencing. On March 8th 2016 they had their 1996 Honda Accord towed to our LaPorte location with the ball joints broken and the vehicle...
completely un-drivable. They asked us to look at the suspension and to look at some form of a fuel smell they were getting. Sales representative [redacted] then evaluated the car and explained to them that the ball joints which had broken preventing the car from driving would cost [redacted] for the parts and the labor and he would also get them a 10 percent off coupon reducing their cost even more. He then explained the fuel smell they were getting was coming from an area near the side of the fuel tank where the lines begin to go into it. [redacted] expressed that in order to find where the smell was coming from it would require further diagnostic time to remove shields that cover the lines and possibly even have to drop the tank. The [redacted] family did not want to put the extra cost in the fuel smell and declined repair telling [redacted] to only proceed with the ball joints. The technician completed the ball joint repair and test drove the vehicle releasing it to the [redacted] upon payment (the car had no major fluid dripping or running out). The vehicle had a slight fuel smell but was not leaking gas or brake fluid in any significant manner. On the 14th of March 2016 the [redacted] brought the vehicle to our Michigan city location asking us to check the exhaust, a brake fluid leak, Serpentine belt noise and the battery terminal ends. The vehicle was now unfortunately leaking gas and brake fluid profusely from near the tank. I myself [redacted], was the sales representative that spoke with the [redacted] about the repairs. I showed them the exhaust pipe had rotted through, the resonator had rusted through, and portions of the muffler and tail pipe assembly were missing. I then explained that the battery ends were corroded badly and the belt was old and warn causing a squeak. The brake leak I explained seemed to be coinciding with the possible fuel leak since the lines run parallel with the fuel system lines, but I could not say if it needed more than just lines till further disassembly and inspection occurred. This parallel running of the lines means that both the gas and brake lines would have to be replaced together and the possibility of a fuel tank or sending unit problem. The fuel tank and sending unit would be evaluated once the tank was out of the car where you could properly inspect it. The [redacted] were given an estimate of: exhaust pipe, resonator, b-exhaust pipe, muffler, tail pipe, all undercar steel gas and brake lines, 2 drive belts and 2 battery ends for [redacted] to [redacted] was brake and gas line work) and if further parts are found to be needed the customer would be contacted for approval. Mr. [redacted] declined the repair and asked if they could have some time to decide. I advised them it was not problem they could store the car at Apex in Michigan city for a few days at NO charge. Then on Wednesday the 16th of March they had the car towed to a salvage yard. Never once did they express to me or anyone at apex that they were unhappy with anything. They thanked me for the estimate and letting them leave the car here at no charge. In fact, we even loaned them tools the day before they had it towed so he could remove his battery from the car. He said that it was new and he wanted to return it for a refund. We obliged and let him remove the battery with our tools in our lot at no charge. Although I cannot refund the money for the ball joints I would like to help the [redacted] family and would like to offer them a discounted rate if they decide to repair the vehicle.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Manager Apex Auto Care/Apex Muffler and Brake
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2016/03/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Not everything stated in the response is accurate. We did not complain of a fuel "smell" when I asked the mechanic to look at the gas leak. I specifically asked him to look under the drivers side rear wheel because there is fuel on the ground where we park the car. After he told me there is no leaking I confirmed his response by saying, "So there is absolutely nothing observable to indicate leaking?" He again said no. He said he could smell a little gas, and he would have to drop the tank which would be a big job, and we declined based on his response that he didnt see anything to indicate leaking. Since I belived him, I gave him the go ahead with the ball joint repair. I ASKED HIM to apply the 10 percent off coupon found on the company website. I did complain when we took the vehicle to apex the following week leaking fuel all over. I called the mechanic at the Laporte garage IMMEDIATELY to inform him that he failed to catch this problem. He was yelling at me and refused to let me speak with a manager saying, "You're speaking to him." No we didn't complain at the Michigan City site because they were all very professional and had nothing to do with the problem. We appreciate that we were allowed to store the vehicle there until it could be salvaged. We were given permission to leave it there until we decided what to do with it, as has been the case with every vehicle we have ever had to repair with this company. We obviously won't be repairing it since it was junked, so the offer of a discount to repair it is valueless. We are still requesting a refund for the ball joint repair because we specifically asked the mechanic to look for the fuel leak before deciding to make the ball joint repair. He said there were no signs of leaking, and we went ahead with the repair with the assurance there was no leak. Obviously HE OVERLOOKED IT because the entire tank bled out at the garage less than a week later. Yes the vehicle was old and had much wrong with it, but we specifically asked him to look at the fuel leak before deciding if the ball joint repair would be worth it. This is not a misunderstanding as indicated in your response. We asked him to look for the leak, even telling him exactally where to look. He said it wasn't leaking and we believed him. Who would put nearly [redacted] into a car that would have to be salvaged less than a week later? The mechanic left us under the impression there was no fuel leak, and he was very wrong. I think it's noble to stand behind your employees, but this man did not do a good job here. I have pictures of the fuel pouring out all over the concrete. It's interesting to me how the mechanics at the Michigan City garage had no problem detecting the leak. They said the lines were all rusted out and that there was EVERY INDICATION that's where the problem was coming from. They also pointed out several other problems with the car. If the first mechanic had been as diligent as the latter one was, we wouldn't be having this problem now because we would have had a better impression of the true condition of the vehicle. Because he failed to do this we want our money back.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2016/03/31) */
Thank you for your response. I know you may feel that this was a misdiagnosis but it was not. The sales rep. was unable to see an obvious leak and asked if you would like to look deeper and you declined. The vehicle was not leaking when it was at our LaPorte location and was not even drive-able it merely had a faint odor. The suspension repair was approved by you and completed correctly and accurately and you paid left with no complaint. The sales rep. had the technician only repair what you approved. When the vehicle came to Michigan City the car was significantly worse and also had a brake leak preventing it from stopping properly. Not to mention the exhaust was broken and loud needing significant repair for a long period of time. I am sorry that the vehicle had a series of mechanical failures but there is no way for us to predict that we can only offer to inspect it if you approve it. The estimate given in Michigan City was presented with the same information that the tank would have to be removed to ensure even more parts were not needed above and beyond the lines. I unfortunately cannot refund the money for a properly completed repair, but we will help on any future repairs and would like to offer a 25 percent discount on any future repair on any of your vehicles.
Thank you
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 11, 2016/04/01) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Completely unsatisfied. The vehicle bled out at precisely the location I asked him to investigate. A leak of that size doesn't just happen all of a sudden. It is a progressive process and there surely had to be signs that he overlooked; signs that would have been visible without having to "drop the tank." Besides, you said yourself it was the lines leaking, which you don't have to drop the tank to see. I feel that the mechanic could have and should have been more up front as to the condition of this vehicle. I realize that it's impossible to predict all future failures, but there are always signs and symptoms long before hand that mechanics are, or at least should be trained to look for. When a vehicle comes into a shop in the condition that mine was, requiring an expensive repair, it would be appropriate to advise the customer of the likely hood that it just might not be worth it. That mechanic could have easily let us know that our car was on the verge of a major end of life breakdown, which rushed to its eventuality 6 days later. I hope that it makes you feel uneasy knowing that your business has the better portion of [redacted] in your pocket, that I paid out of my deficiency, for a vehicle that had to be salvaged not even a week after it was seen in your shop. You should think carefully about whether [redacted] is worth it to you to loose a faithful customer. My husband and I have only used Apex since we've been old enough to drive; about 12 years we've been bringing business to Apex and have never taken our cars elsewhere. But after this experience I will never return to this company for business, and I will be sure to never recommend this garage to anyone. Shame on you.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2016/03/24) */
To Whom It May Concern,
We are sorry to hear about the misunderstanding that the [redacted] family is experiencing. On March 8th 2016 they had their 1996 Honda Accord towed to our LaPorte location with the ball joints broken and the vehicle...
completely un-drivable. They asked us to look at the suspension and to look at some form of a fuel smell they were getting. Sales representative [redacted] then evaluated the car and explained to them that the ball joints which had broken preventing the car from driving would cost [redacted] for the parts and the labor and he would also get them a 10 percent off coupon reducing their cost even more. He then explained the fuel smell they were getting was coming from an area near the side of the fuel tank where the lines begin to go into it. [redacted] expressed that in order to find where the smell was coming from it would require further diagnostic time to remove shields that cover the lines and possibly even have to drop the tank. The [redacted] family did not want to put the extra cost in the fuel smell and declined repair telling [redacted] to only proceed with the ball joints. The technician completed the ball joint repair and test drove the vehicle releasing it to the [redacted] upon payment (the car had no major fluid dripping or running out). The vehicle had a slight fuel smell but was not leaking gas or brake fluid in any significant manner. On the 14th of March 2016 the [redacted] brought the vehicle to our Michigan city location asking us to check the exhaust, a brake fluid leak, Serpentine belt noise and the battery terminal ends. The vehicle was now unfortunately leaking gas and brake fluid profusely from near the tank. I myself [redacted], was the sales representative that spoke with the [redacted] about the repairs. I showed them the exhaust pipe had rotted through, the resonator had rusted through, and portions of the muffler and tail pipe assembly were missing. I then explained that the battery ends were corroded badly and the belt was old and warn causing a squeak. The brake leak I explained seemed to be coinciding with the possible fuel leak since the lines run parallel with the fuel system lines, but I could not say if it needed more than just lines till further disassembly and inspection occurred. This parallel running of the lines means that both the gas and brake lines would have to be replaced together and the possibility of a fuel tank or sending unit problem. The fuel tank and sending unit would be evaluated once the tank was out of the car where you could properly inspect it. The [redacted] were given an estimate of: exhaust pipe, resonator, b-exhaust pipe, muffler, tail pipe, all undercar steel gas and brake lines, 2 drive belts and 2 battery ends for [redacted] to [redacted] was brake and gas line work) and if further parts are found to be needed the customer would be contacted for approval. Mr. [redacted] declined the repair and asked if they could have some time to decide. I advised them it was not problem they could store the car at Apex in Michigan city for a few days at NO charge. Then on Wednesday the 16th of March they had the car towed to a salvage yard. Never once did they express to me or anyone at apex that they were unhappy with anything. They thanked me for the estimate and letting them leave the car here at no charge. In fact, we even loaned them tools the day before they had it towed so he could remove his battery from the car. He said that it was new and he wanted to return it for a refund. We obliged and let him remove the battery with our tools in our lot at no charge. Although I cannot refund the money for the ball joints I would like to help the [redacted] family and would like to offer them a discounted rate if they decide to repair the vehicle.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Manager Apex Auto Care/Apex Muffler and Brake
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2016/03/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Not everything stated in the response is accurate. We did not complain of a fuel "smell" when I asked the mechanic to look at the gas leak. I specifically asked him to look under the drivers side rear wheel because there is fuel on the ground where we park the car. After he told me there is no leaking I confirmed his response by saying, "So there is absolutely nothing observable to indicate leaking?" He again said no. He said he could smell a little gas, and he would have to drop the tank which would be a big job, and we declined based on his response that he didnt see anything to indicate leaking. Since I belived him, I gave him the go ahead with the ball joint repair. I ASKED HIM to apply the 10 percent off coupon found on the company website. I did complain when we took the vehicle to apex the following week leaking fuel all over. I called the mechanic at the Laporte garage IMMEDIATELY to inform him that he failed to catch this problem. He was yelling at me and refused to let me speak with a manager saying, "You're speaking to him." No we didn't complain at the Michigan City site because they were all very professional and had nothing to do with the problem. We appreciate that we were allowed to store the vehicle there until it could be salvaged. We were given permission to leave it there until we decided what to do with it, as has been the case with every vehicle we have ever had to repair with this company. We obviously won't be repairing it since it was junked, so the offer of a discount to repair it is valueless. We are still requesting a refund for the ball joint repair because we specifically asked the mechanic to look for the fuel leak before deciding to make the ball joint repair. He said there were no signs of leaking, and we went ahead with the repair with the assurance there was no leak. Obviously HE OVERLOOKED IT because the entire tank bled out at the garage less than a week later. Yes the vehicle was old and had much wrong with it, but we specifically asked him to look at the fuel leak before deciding if the ball joint repair would be worth it. This is not a misunderstanding as indicated in your response. We asked him to look for the leak, even telling him exactally where to look. He said it wasn't leaking and we believed him. Who would put nearly [redacted] into a car that would have to be salvaged less than a week later? The mechanic left us under the impression there was no fuel leak, and he was very wrong. I think it's noble to stand behind your employees, but this man did not do a good job here. I have pictures of the fuel pouring out all over the concrete. It's interesting to me how the mechanics at the Michigan City garage had no problem detecting the leak. They said the lines were all rusted out and that there was EVERY INDICATION that's where the problem was coming from. They also pointed out several other problems with the car. If the first mechanic had been as diligent as the latter one was, we wouldn't be having this problem now because we would have had a better impression of the true condition of the vehicle. Because he failed to do this we want our money back.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2016/03/31) */
Thank you for your response. I know you may feel that this was a misdiagnosis but it was not. The sales rep. was unable to see an obvious leak and asked if you would like to look deeper and you declined. The vehicle was not leaking when it was at our LaPorte location and was not even drive-able it merely had a faint odor. The suspension repair was approved by you and completed correctly and accurately and you paid left with no complaint. The sales rep. had the technician only repair what you approved. When the vehicle came to Michigan City the car was significantly worse and also had a brake leak preventing it from stopping properly. Not to mention the exhaust was broken and loud needing significant repair for a long period of time. I am sorry that the vehicle had a series of mechanical failures but there is no way for us to predict that we can only offer to inspect it if you approve it. The estimate given in Michigan City was presented with the same information that the tank would have to be removed to ensure even more parts were not needed above and beyond the lines. I unfortunately cannot refund the money for a properly completed repair, but we will help on any future repairs and would like to offer a 25 percent discount on any future repair on any of your vehicles.
Thank you
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 11, 2016/04/01) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Completely unsatisfied. The vehicle bled out at precisely the location I asked him to investigate. A leak of that size doesn't just happen all of a sudden. It is a progressive process and there surely had to be signs that he overlooked; signs that would have been visible without having to "drop the tank." Besides, you said yourself it was the lines leaking, which you don't have to drop the tank to see. I feel that the mechanic could have and should have been more up front as to the condition of this vehicle. I realize that it's impossible to predict all future failures, but there are always signs and symptoms long before hand that mechanics are, or at least should be trained to look for. When a vehicle comes into a shop in the condition that mine was, requiring an expensive repair, it would be appropriate to advise the customer of the likely hood that it just might not be worth it. That mechanic could have easily let us know that our car was on the verge of a major end of life breakdown, which rushed to its eventuality 6 days later. I hope that it makes you feel uneasy knowing that your business has the better portion of [redacted] in your pocket, that I paid out of my deficiency, for a vehicle that had to be salvaged not even a week after it was seen in your shop. You should think carefully about whether [redacted] is worth it to you to loose a faithful customer. My husband and I have only used Apex since we've been old enough to drive; about 12 years we've been bringing business to Apex and have never taken our cars elsewhere. But after this experience I will never return to this company for business, and I will be sure to never recommend this garage to anyone. Shame on you.