Cardinal Fence Corporation

From: Lidio V [redacted] arial, sans-serif;">< [redacted] >Date: Thu, Dec 18, at 10:AMSubject: RE: [redacted] ( [redacted] )To: [redacted] < [redacted] @myRevdex.com.org>Good morningWell, let me start with [redacted] First, there was no "bait and switch" tacticsCardinal Fence never received any money for the jobThere was some confusion about the landing and steps and that is where the problem came inBut first I have to go back to when Richard did the proposal and it was approved-this was August 15thNot being that familiar with landings and steps, Richard asked Lidio-the owner of the company-about pricingI don't know what Lidio heard Richard say-maybe Richard said steps and Lidio thought 2-whatever the confusion wwas on our partThis error was not caught at first because the first thing that was needed was a copy of [redacted] s plat so we could go to the county and get a permit to dig-that was needed for the footers for the landing [redacted] did not have one, so I took the time to contact the county-knowing that at one point there had to be a plat at the county when the original deck was builtIt was a while back-2002-the plat was there in the old records departmentIt had to be requested from the records department and I finally received it on September the 4th at which time I let [redacted] know it had been received and I had to call utilities again and then we could schedule the jobI even e-mailed him a copy of the plat for his future use At that point, actually a couple of days later,Richard once again got with Lidio and they were going over the work order for the jobIt was then that Lidio realized his mistake and said we could not do the landing and steps for the money we had quoted because of the mistake in the number of steps-steps is a rather extensive job with lighting required for county approvalOn September the 8th I e-mailed [redacted] and explained the situation-offering him optionsIf he still wanted the landing and steps the cost would be $2,500.00, but if he just wanted steps down Lidio could do that for the original $We never heard back from [redacted] awas assumed incorrectly-that he had decided against our doing the jobs-both the fence and the stepsI have attached that e-mail from September the 8th that was sent to him for you to readThe only reason we offered to do the fence first was because we had no idea how long it would take to get the plat from the county-and the fence could have been done separately from the other job and then the only cost would have been for the fence if [redacted] had opted out of the landing/steps jobAs you can see from the time line-the middle of August to September the 8th-there was never months of "stringing along" anyoneWe did our best to correct an honest mistake and [redacted] chose to take the attitude we were trying to dupe himAs you can see by the ending sentences of the e-mail sent on September the 8th, or sincere apologizes were expressedWe never heard back from him, I am guessing the time frame from August til October when he wrote to you is the months he is speaking ofAgain, when we heard nothing from him, we assumed he had decided against the woleast against our doing the workWe even discussed between us that we hope he got a good deal from someone else and that he was happyI hope this explains our point of view and also I hope it clears things up a little for [redacted] Thank You, ***, for Lidio V [redacted] , Cardinal Fence

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the responseIf no reason is received your complaint will be closed as Answered]
Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:After the first incident with the fence, I questioned Allen W***, the estimator and sales person, as to whether the fence was installed according to the contract. He assured me that it was and sent the 20-year wind warranty as a sign of good faith that the fence was installed properly. It is on Cardinal Fence letterhead with MrV***’s signature. Cardinal Fence now claims that they have no knowledge of this warranty and that the signature is not that of MrV***. If this is true, we requested a copy of the police report filed for stolen identity and fraudMrLidio V*** did come to our property and discuss the new fence installation. He said that we would receive a new contract. Instead, Cardinal Fence sent us an email and asked us to respond to the email as acceptance to move forward. We asked for a new contract to be signed, dated, and notarized. We requested that specific language be included regarding our legal rights in the event that the need to enforce the contract should arise. We asked for a copy of Cardinal Fence’s insurance. We pointed out that we already have a 20-year wind warranty from Cardinal Fence. We did not ask for it in the new contract.We have not received a new contract, a police report, or a copy of Cardinal Fence’s insurance
Regards,
*** ***

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the responseIf no reason is received your complaint will be closed as Answered]
Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:Again, the representative from Cardinal, who was never privy to any conversations had, is making statements about things I've previously addressed in my "lengthy rebuttal"Regarding a video, I'm not sure why I would have video evidence of a conversation that never occurred. If it is not standard protocol for contractors to contact or reach out to HOA's, then I'm confused as to how Cardinal is aware of what the HOA would or would not approveIt was never once confirmed whether the HOA would allow for a horizontal board, which I'm almost certain they would notIt also baffles me that Cardinal was not willing to listen to my requests in order to attempt to work with me; if that was the case, we wouldn't be where we are todayThe most I've ever heard from this company is through my complaint through Revdex.comIf they took even half the amount of effort they are in providing these uninformative and untrue responses to my complaint, it is quite possible they would have been able to work together with me to find a solutionInstead I've been branded as a needy and unhappy customer and "the customer is not always right"I'll have you know, I found a replacement company to finish the job and they have done an outstanding and very professional jobThey took the initiative to come up with options for me and come to find it was an easy fix; the current builder fence just needed to be dropped down in order to get the rest of the fence level with the ground which is labeled as an "unfortunate section of my yard that isn't level"to this Cardinal companyOnce again, excuse after excuse for a less than subpar company who cannot appropriately complete a jobI would recommend you start taking some responsibility for the lack of expertise or common sense, whichever way you choose to look at it, instead of blaming a customer; the people who keep your company in business. Regards,
*** ***

Date: Thu, Jun 1, at 4:PMSubject: ***-Complaint ***To: *** *** First please allow me to say that since I was not on the job site, most of my knowledge is thru e-mails and phone calls and conversations with both Allen W***-our estimator-and Lidio-the
ownerI have attached a copy of the proposal that was signed by both **and ***Please note no where on the proposal does it say anything about a year warrantyI can send you a copy of the warranty from the manufacturer, it is for years-against defects in materialIt specifically states that among other thindoes not cover wind damageIf the manufacturer would not warranty the product for years against wind damage, it seems doubtful that we would-logically** *** was kind enough to e-mail me a copy of the altered proposal with the information on it that the fence was warrantied for years against wind-I had never seen it, Lidio had never seen itNot sure who signed it and what was put on the paper when, but it is not our warrantyThat said, I can tell you that-although I did not know this at the time-the "wind kit" panels and posts that the manufacturer supplies, is the material that was sent to usTested-but not warrantied- against wind speeds of 75mDade County-Florida (not California as I had stated in one of my e-mails), if properly installed-and there in is the problem-I believeThe instructions for the proper installation of the posts are for "in ground" installationThis fencing was going into a patio-which meant going thru patio pavers and whatever was under them at the time-the patio was already installedLidio could not put the posts "in the ground", so he did the best he couwas a judgement callThe proposal I sent does indicate the use of rebar and wire ties and 6" of gravel-all of which could not be used because of the patio paversWhat was discussed with the ***s-I do not knowThe fence was installed and then several months later, there was an issueBy the time things were coordinated with the paver company, etc., the "fix" was doneThe paver company has been nothing but helpful in this whole processWe have been fortunate in this area not to have had many very high wind stormsBut along comes one and the post-because of the way it had been set in the pavers-did not holdLidio was out to the house and explained what he wanted to do-actually move the fencing down off the pavers and into the grouthe posts should have beenIt was explained that it would take a couple of weeks to get the material-the posts have to ordered special because of the lengthIt was also explained-once again-that our warranty is for one year against defects in material and workmanship and if what Lidio had explained to the ***s was acceptable to let us know and we would order the material and proceed with the fixWe received an e-mail that they wanted the "fix" to be written down and signed and notorized and wanted it to include the year warranty against the wind damageAt that point, I am afraid our communication stopped, as we had been back and forth several times on the warranty issue and it seemed as if it was a "stalled" pointWe offered to fix the fence in the most secure manner Lidio knows and that just did not seem enough for the ***sNow, if I am reading their complaint right, they are asking for the fence and posts to be fixed-the one paver I was aware from Lidio would have to be replaced-anything else I am not sure of the problemWe have tried to make this right and if the ***s had agreed to the last e-mail, the problem would be on its way to being taken care ofPlease let me know what we can do at this pointI am afraid this boils down to he said she said and Cardinal Fence can make it right, if things will be accepted by the ***sAs right as any other vinyl fencing we install Thank You, Cardinal Fence

Date: Thu, Jul 6, at 11:AMSubject: RE: *** *** Rebuttal (***)To: *** *** In response to *** ***s lengthy rebuttal, please allow me once again to explain about this job*** *** did sign a contract with us to install a certain type of fenceIt had to be approved by her HOAIt was for a 6' high fenceThe boards have to be a specific type and height, etcfor the HOAsThe style and length-things like decorative tops or cap boards-all that is decided and approved by the HOAUnfortunately, ** *** has a section of her yard that is not levelPutting up longer boards is not an optionWhat would have been accepted by the HOA was what the owner of Cardinal Fence tried to do, add a horizontal board to the bottom which would have helped with the situation of a small dogWhen this remedy was attempted, ** *** got extremely upset and started yelling at the owner that this was not what she wantedThat, unfortunately, would have had to be taken up with her HOAIt is not up to any contractfact, most HOAs will not deal with the contractors-the HOAs are set up to deal with the homeowners onlyThe fence had been installed completely, so the job as contracted was completeWhen the discussion persisted about the one section and the "dip" in the ground, it was mentioned that she really had no intention for paying the balance** *** indicated that she felt the price was too high anywayShe does dispute that, if there is video to prove that she never had a discussion with the owner, I would like to see itMy only proof is what I was told, we do not video every job we doShe paid us a deposit so basically half the fence was hers but since the balance was not paid and it appeared there was no intention of it getting paid, the owner took down half the fence-which belonged to Cardinal Fence because of lack of paymentThat took time and the materials cannot be used on another job, so why would he go thru the time and waste of material if not for the reasons I have statedThat did cost the company moneySometimes, there is no satisfying a homeowner, so 100% customer satisfaction becomes an impossible task and really comes down to when is enough enough"The customer is always right" is a long ago statement that cannot always occurIf there is a REAL problem, we do our best to resolve it Thank You, Cardinal Fence

Date: Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:08 PMSubject: Complaint [redacted]To: [redacted] <[redacted]@myRevdex.com.org>I have attached the manufacturers warranty and the sheet from them about the "wind kit". The fencing-as I understand it-is tested up to 75 MPH-once again, NOT warrantied for 20 years.  Since no one at Cardinal Fence remembers that second proposal being signed and sent-it has been 2 years and many customers since that time-it would seem to me that this homeowner would forget what we have never given to anyone else and let us try to make the "fix" the proper way to secure the fencing. I am not the installers-nor the owner-but from what I understand the whole problem was the posts did not just go thru one patio stone-there were stones-or possibly concrete blocks-underneath the top paver so the rebar and wire ties, etc. could not be done as described in the first proposal. I explained that in my last response. That is why when the owner came out he explained that he would like to move the fence to the ground-so the posts could be installed in the ground as the sheet about the "wind kit" explains. Now, a couple of things,  there is no police report. The e-mail that was sent was a first attempt in order to see if the homeowners were going to accept this change. A formal Cardinal Fence proposal can be sent, just like we do with all other homeowners, not notarized and with no special wording. So,if the homeowner would like the problem with the fence taken care of-which seems to me what SHOULD be the issue-do they want things corrected or not?-then we can proceed with getting the material and getting the installation done properly. I would be glad to do a proposal with the same wording as the e-mail, if that would make the homeowner happy. As a side note, to my knowledge, there has never been any issue with a vinyl fence Cardinal Fence has installed in 20 some odd years of installations. This is just an exceptional case and can be handled, if the homeowner agrees. Thank You

In response to this complaint-please see attached pictures. The "small section" the homeowner said was not done properly was in fact, done properly. As you can see from the picture, there is a slight gap at the bottom of the fence. That is because her yard slopes in that area. In order to comply...

with her HOA the top of the fencing has to be level. She is also technically allowed a 6' high fence-so the boards were all 6' in length. The owner of Cardinal was concerned about replacing the boards with longer ones-that is what the homeowner wanted-due to HOA regs. She insisted that we should have noticed the slope and brought out longer boards. The owner of Cardinal said if that is the only resolution than he would replace the boards. Sometimes it is hard to determine which day something like a "service" can be done and he had a spare amount of time one day and went out to replace the boards-at our expense. Let me make this clear-the contract was for a 6' high fence and that is what we installed. There was also one post that she did not like the appearance of. I sent that picture as well. The material used-as all the fencing companies will attest-is what the FEDERAL government labels as #2 fencing material. It will not be perfect. The post is set in concrete and is a #2. We would have had to dig up the post to replace it. That would have cost the homeowner and it appeared to us that she was not going to pay us for the balance of the work as it was. It had nothing to do with the workers being lazy as the homeowner suggested. When the homeowner and the owner of Cardinal were talking and it was decided that in fact the homeowner was not going to pay us for the balance-she made the remark that she thought the price was too high- that is when half of the fence was being taken down. Neighbors on both sides of the homeowner came over to us and asked why it was being taken down, it was such a beautiful fence. Since she had no intention of paying the balance, it seemed our only option. I think this is a clear summary of what happened. If you have any questions, please call, ###-###-####.  Thank You,  Cardinal Fence

From: [redacted] V[redacted] <[redacted]@cardinalfence.net>Date: Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:03 AMSubject: RE: [redacted] Complaint ([redacted])To: [redacted] <[redacted]@myRevdex.com.org>I am hoping this has been settled now. We did not take an excessive amount of time to fix the...

fence-it was special order material and we told [redacted] that it would take probably 3 weeks just to get the material needed to fix the panels. The other section that was repaired was a post that had been pulled on until it was very loose and it was in the proposal for us to fix it-our estimator went out of his way to walk the entire fence line to be sure all was secure-that was the managements biggest worry. When he discovered the loose post he included replacing that in his proposal-which was accepted. Now, when the crew replaced the post, it was not done properly and it was still loose and did not look exactly like the rest of the fence-again, because it was all special order. [redacted] himself went back out and repaired the section with brackets-as all the repairs are done-and reapplied concrete to secure that section. As we explained to [redacted], we have done several repairs along other sections of that fencing, and the repairs had to be done slightly differently from the original. When they looked and saw this was correct, they asked us to send them a quote to repair that one section back to the original appearance. That was just before the holidays and we are waiting for a quote on material now. Hopefully, if our proposal is accepted, it will not take as long to get the material in-this is a slower time of year. As I said, I am hoping all is settled now and if they decide to "go original" with our new quote, everyone will be happy with the job.  Thank You,    Cardinal Fence

From: Lidio V[redacted]
arial, sans-serif;"><[redacted]>Date: Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 10:32 AMSubject: RE: [redacted] ([redacted])To: [redacted] <[redacted]@myRevdex.com.org>Good morning. Well, let me start with [redacted]. First, there was no "bait and switch" tactics. Cardinal Fence never received any money for the job. There was some confusion about the landing and steps and that is where the problem came in. But first I have to go back to when Richard did the proposal and it was approved-this was August 15th. Not being that familiar with landings and steps, Richard asked Lidio-the owner of the company-about pricing. I don't know what Lidio heard Richard say-maybe Richard said 12 steps and Lidio thought 2-whatever the confusion was-it was on our part. This error was not caught at first because the first thing that was needed was a copy of [redacted]s plat so we could go to the county and get a permit to dig-that was needed for the footers for the landing. [redacted] did not have one, so I took the time to contact the county-knowing that at one point there had to be a plat at the county when the original deck was built. It was a while back-2002-the plat was there in the old records department. It had to be requested from the records department and I finally received it on September the 4th at which time I let [redacted] know it had been received and I had to call utilities again and then we could schedule the job. I even e-mailed him a copy of the plat for his future use.  At that point, actually a couple of days later,Richard once again got with Lidio and they were going over the work order for the job. It was then that Lidio realized his mistake and said we could not do the landing and steps for the money we had quoted because of the mistake in the number of steps-12 steps is a rather extensive job with lighting required for county approval. On September the 8th I e-mailed [redacted] and explained the situation-offering him 2 options. If he still wanted the landing and steps the cost would be $2,500.00, but if he just wanted steps down Lidio could do that for the original $900.00. We never heard back from [redacted] and-it was assumed incorrectly-that he had decided against our doing the jobs-both the fence and the steps. I have attached that e-mail from September the 8th that was sent to him for you to read. The only reason we offered to do the fence first was because we had no idea how long it would take to get the plat from the county-and the fence could have been done separately from the other job and then the only cost would have been for the fence if [redacted] had opted out of the landing/steps job. As you can see from the time line-the middle of August to September the 8th-there was never 2 months of "stringing along" anyone. We did our best to correct an honest mistake and [redacted] chose to take the attitude we were trying to dupe him. As you can see by the ending sentences of the e-mail sent on September the 8th, or sincere apologizes were expressed. We never heard back from him, I am guessing the time frame from August til October when he wrote to you is the 2 months he is speaking of. Again, when we heard nothing from him, we assumed he had decided against the work-at least against our doing the work. We even discussed between us that we hope he got a good deal from someone else and that he was happy.
I hope this explains our point of view and also I hope it clears things up a little for [redacted].  Thank You,  [redacted], for Lidio V[redacted], Cardinal Fence
.

Review: I feel this company used Bait and switch tactics. They came out to my house and measured for a new fence and stairs. Richard understood everything we needed and said he would email us the quote. I was emailed a quote and I agreed to it. I was told they would be out in a week to install the fence. Then I received a call saying it would take another week for the building permit. Then was pushed back two more weeks waiting on the property PLAT. They called back and said they would install the fence but would come back to do the stairs. I wasn't comfortable with that and said I would wait for the permit to have all the construction done at the same time. Two weeks later nearly two months from us agreeing to the quote they sent me an email saying it would be an additional $2500 to do the install. After stringing me along for two months. Im so happy I didnt fall for their trick of starting the job then finishing later. I spoke do Richard he said he understood what we agreed to but when he explained it to the owner the owner didnt understand and gave us the wrong price. The quote they emailed me clearly outlines the work we afreed to. I told Linda I was going to the Revdex.com and she said fine they are just going to send me ypur statement and I will send a response and nothing will happen. Linda told me the owner Lidio would call me. It has been two weeks and he never called. Its nearly October and I'm worried that now it might be too late to get a fence built. I am sending my complaint to the Revdex.com first before I contact an attorneyDesired Settlement: I would like the work that they quoted me done for the price they quoted.

Business

Response:

From: Lidio V[redacted]<[redacted]>Date: Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 10:32 AMSubject: RE: [redacted] ([redacted])To: [redacted] <[redacted]@myRevdex.com.org>Good morning. Well, let me start with [redacted]. First, there was no "bait and switch" tactics. Cardinal Fence never received any money for the job. There was some confusion about the landing and steps and that is where the problem came in. But first I have to go back to when Richard did the proposal and it was approved-this was August 15th. Not being that familiar with landings and steps, Richard asked Lidio-the owner of the company-about pricing. I don't know what Lidio heard Richard say-maybe Richard said 12 steps and Lidio thought 2-whatever the confusion was-it was on our part. This error was not caught at first because the first thing that was needed was a copy of [redacted]s plat so we could go to the county and get a permit to dig-that was needed for the footers for the landing. [redacted] did not have one, so I took the time to contact the county-knowing that at one point there had to be a plat at the county when the original deck was built. It was a while back-2002-the plat was there in the old records department. It had to be requested from the records department and I finally received it on September the 4th at which time I let [redacted] know it had been received and I had to call utilities again and then we could schedule the job. I even e-mailed him a copy of the plat for his future use. At that point, actually a couple of days later,Richard once again got with Lidio and they were going over the work order for the job. It was then that Lidio realized his mistake and said we could not do the landing and steps for the money we had quoted because of the mistake in the number of steps-12 steps is a rather extensive job with lighting required for county approval. On September the 8th I e-mailed [redacted] and explained the situation-offering him 2 options. If he still wanted the landing and steps the cost would be $2,500.00, but if he just wanted steps down Lidio could do that for the original $900.00. We never heard back from [redacted] and-it was assumed incorrectly-that he had decided against our doing the jobs-both the fence and the steps. I have attached that e-mail from September the 8th that was sent to him for you to read. The only reason we offered to do the fence first was because we had no idea how long it would take to get the plat from the county-and the fence could have been done separately from the other job and then the only cost would have been for the fence if [redacted] had opted out of the landing/steps job. As you can see from the time line-the middle of August to September the 8th-there was never 2 months of "stringing along" anyone. We did our best to correct an honest mistake and [redacted] chose to take the attitude we were trying to dupe him. As you can see by the ending sentences of the e-mail sent on September the 8th, or sincere apologizes were expressed. We never heard back from him, I am guessing the time frame from August til October when he wrote to you is the 2 months he is speaking of. Again, when we heard nothing from him, we assumed he had decided against the work-at least against our doing the work. We even discussed between us that we hope he got a good deal from someone else and that he was happy.

Cardinal Fence did a very good job in installing our fence. The price was reasonable and they performed high quality work. They treated us with courtesy throughout the process and were prompt to address an issue with one of the gates. Cardinal Fence provides a very high level of customer service and are professionals who I would gladly recommend to others needing fence work.