Chicago Pet Crematorium

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, we would like to know your view on the matter.]To Whom It May Concern,
We do not feel that this complaint has been resolved
Throughout this whole response MrR*** has done nothing but blame and accuse
us of mistreatment of our vehicleAnd the pictures show nothingIn this
response I will address this response and each picture that he has presentedAnd
the only “belittling” done is to us for stepping up to call Kerry VW Service
Department out on over and over accusations toward usWe can only take so
much
I will start with the door alignment issueFirst MrR***
is accusing us of mistreatment of our vanStating they felt that it was “bent”
by usWe treat our vehicle respectivelyYes we lack in the washing and
vacuuming but we are a busy family no one is perfectBut as for the treatment
of our van, especially the doors, we do not open or close the door any other
way than keyless remote or handle We do
not even let our children open the door by themselves other than the button
And the only way they know how to open and close the door is by its buttons
As for the pictures presented in this response I am addressing
each onePlease note that this is the FIRST time that we have been presented
these pictures
First: Picture & Yes in the large circle there
is a small superficial scratch by the wheelUpon reexamined my van and found
nothing else shown in this pictureThe rest of that circle you can clearly see
that it is a reflectionThis is the location that he tried to point out to me
but could not and accused me of “buffing” it outThe small circle must have been
dirt because when reexamining the van it is not there
Picture Yes I am aware of this scratch and dentI did
itIt was grocery shopping and the cart got away from me while the door was
closedSo this could not cause a misalignment of the doorAnd it is the only
dent on the whole door
Picture Upon reexamining my van this “scratch” it is nowhere
to be seenI assume it was dirt or reflection
Picture Upon reexamining my van there is a small
superficial rub the rest I am to assume it was dirt or reflection
And finally Picture there are wear and tear
superficial scratches on the running boards possibly from debris off the road
I feel that issue would not affect the doorEvery day driving and use would
cause these
When we first presented this problem we were informed that
they found 3-dents in the door that is affectedWe knew of only one dent
(picture 1674) and a few superficial scratchesWhen I presented my van to Mr
R***, he proceeded to try and show me these “dents” but could notAnd then
proceeded to accuse us of “buffing” them outWhen MrH*** contacted us, he
admitted he never saw the van in person and was only seeing the van by the
pictures provided hereAnd that was all he neededI offered to bring van in
and he was not interested in seeing the vanI see a lot of shadowingWhere
these shadows are, upon reexamination, there is no damage of any sort in the
area
Now back to the letter response All dates are accurateAt no point did Kerry
VW Service Team ask us if we knew what happenedWith what MrR*** stated,
they made their own assumptions“When the Tech Diagnosed the car he found that
it needed a lower hinge”So there was a problem with lower hinge and I came
and got it repairedThen when brought back for continued issue they stated “We
found that upper hinge was bent” how did all the sudden the upper hinge get
“bent”This should have been seen when first investigatedHe continues to say
“We did note that we believed the hinge was bent do to pulling down on the
door” But there was no damage to my door that would have caused this to bendIn
fact when we addressed it the technician admitted that they “found nothing in
initial inspection but we should have just replaced both anyway” All repairs
were done and was satisfied but the door alignmentWhen I spoke with the
service department they advised me to “let them know at the next service
appointmentIt can be taken care of all at the same time.” When making my call
for the service I addressed the problem to be looked at and fixedThe
gentleman said no problemOn 7/21/MrR*** states “The customer did not
want to wait at this time to have us look at the door.” This is incorrect At that appointment when the van was done I
asked the gentleman if the door was looked at and fixed for the alignment
problemHe showed no record of my request, so he had me bring him out to show
him the issueWhen he saw it he told me “there is a definite issue but the
service department was too busy that day to take a look at it or correct it” and
to “address the issue at the next service appointmentIt is not an issue you
need to make a special trip for”So the appointment next service appointment on
5/4/When I made this appointment I told them they need to address the
door and it has also been intermittently making the grinding noise, againI
stated to the gentleman that there is an alignment issue that still has not
been corrected and my concern is that it may be causing troubleSo I just
wanted them to make sure that there is no damage being done and to just align
the doorWhen the decision to tell me that we are now “extreme amount of time
from the repair and the damage that was on the car that it is outside
influence” When my husband spoke with MrR*** he was told it was “out of
their hands” and he “will send info to Volkswagen and see if they will tell us
to repair or not.” Why should MrR*** have to ask Volkswagen if he can
repair something that is clearly done wrong by Kerry VW Service? I’ve been
trying to get this repaired for over a year now and they pretty much told us
that it wasn’t a priority and they can fix it next timeNow out of “warranty”,
we were not informed about, due to them pushing us offThey never took the
time to call us to inform us of Volkswagen’s decision to do or not to do the
repair until we spoke in person on 7/16/when I confronted MrR***Then
MrR*** turn it around and stated that we damaged our vehicle in the
meanwhileBut cannot physically prove it and pictures he provided here were
done poorly and does not back his caseWe were NEVER advised that this repair
had a time/mile limit in this whole process till AFTER the limit had passed
Then and only then MrR*** informed us that they were not doing the repair
I called my husband and he chose to call to speak with the Service Manager and
MrR*** was the one that called him backYes we raised our voices sternly
to MrR***, and him only, (and I do apologize my husband has a temper) but
to express to him how upset we were and that all we are asking him is to
realign the door from their mistakeThat is all At no point did I belittle or was rude to the
staff of Kerry VW
Next you addressed the A/C I brought up this particular issue on this
complaint due to this was in the conversation when my husband spoke to Mr
R*** on 5/4/So the matter did not helpWhen I made the appointment for
the regular service on 5/4/I requested for the A/C to be checkedWe
thought it might not be as cool as it has been in the pastI requested that
they just check it as part of their checkup due to summer is upon usWhen I
received the first call from them a nice lady proceeded to inform me the reason
for the air not working is due to I did not “push the buttons to turn it on
especially for the recirculation” This, at first, did not bother meI proceeded
to ask her if they have tested the system to make sure all was ok anyway just
to do a checkup while they had itShe stated “no they have not” So I proceeded
to request that they do the simple checkup for me and she agreedThe next call
was for her to let me know that they checked it and it was fineI was fine
with thisI apologized to her but expressed that the call earlier telling me
“push the buttons to turn it on and especially for the recirculation” BEFORE
even doing the checkup made me feel as if they thought I was an itMaybe I
could have chosen better words, but that’s how I felt at that timeThat it
felt like the service technicians were not willing to check it without me
making the request againThis statement should have been addressed after the
maintenance was completed as adviceAgain back to placing the blame on the
customer that did not have to be made
Next you addressed the Shifting concernI brought this
particular issue up on this complaint due to MrR*** was quick to bring it
up to me when I talked with him in person on 7/14/We have brought this
concern to you every time you have had this vehicle in your service centerIt
has not gone awayFirst you informed me it was the Econ buttonHe stated that
this button was to only be used on the interstateWhich I did admit to the
service man that I did not know anything about this button and we thanked him
and learned from this mistakeLater we investigated this in the owner’s manual
and there was nowhere this was writtenI was told next time that it was due to
having the air conditioner onThen I was told it was due to the defroster onI
continue to monitor this daily and check out the conditions that are going on
at the time of the hard shiftingBut I continue to tell you due to we want it
documented in our records that it has been our concern and if something does
happen to the transmissionI drive my van almost dailyYes it is intermittent
Yes I know that not all issues cannot be duplicated while it is in for service
a short timeI am well aware of thatBut we just want it to be noted when
checking the vehicle for maintenance
So now to the “belittling my staff when they would call and
ask questions or if they were given a answer that they did not like they would
get very irate with us it this was over multi visits”Now you are trying to
make us out to be the awful customerThis is so that MrR*** does not have
to take the responsibility of his actions At NO time have I ever belittled your staffI
have treated them with respectThe only time I raised my voice at a staff
member was to a kind lady was assisting us and had to call MrR*** due to he
was no longer in the servicing areaI raised my voice to request for Mr
R*** to come and talk with us in personMrR*** refusedI have been
assisted by all the staff without issues or problemsThey have been quite kind
and helpfulThe only one we have had a heated, voiced raised, conversation
with is with MrR*** and MrH***I do know we might have lost our
temper a couple of times with both of them, but after being accused over and
over that it was always our faultYou can only take so much
This whole entire issue has been the issue of the alignment
The issues A/C and the Shifting I brought into this complaint is due to I was
confronted by MrR*** on 7/14/MrR*** made sure that he brought it
up to prove his point, not sure what the pointOther than to make me feel as
if I have done nothing but bother the Kerry VW service team with our issues
Well MrR***, you are a service department, that is the job
It saddens me that MrR*** would turn a customer away
that had an engine light on, just to make his pointIt also saddens me that
MrR*** would tell a customer to “go elsewhereWe are all independently
ownedLet someone else deal with you.” MrH*** stated “since we did not
purchase the vehicle at Kerry VW they cannot give us service that is needed”
Then proceeded to hang up on usWhy would where we purchased our vehicle
matter on the kind of service we deserve?
Lastly MrR*** states that “I will be happy to have our
body shop align her door for her at our cost but she would be responsible for
that repair” MrR*** that is all we have requested this whole entire time regarding
the doorJust realign the doorThere is no “repair” neededIf something is
done while this door is being realigned, or due to this door being unaligned
for so long, it will still be the service department’s responsibilityThere is
nothing else, at this time, nothing is wrong with the door other than the
alignment and the start of the noise again that brought me there in the first
place to repairAt no point through this whole ordeal has MrR*** ever made
an attempt to offer us to align the door at all to correct the wrongHe has
only informed us that it would be our responsibility or Volkswagens to correct
the wrongBut Kerry VW Service Department never took the responsibility to
just realign the doorAll of this could be avoided if MrR*** would have just
give customer service to the customer and admit a wrong doing and correct the
problem at the first request.Regards,*** ***

[redacted]
 
Thank you for bring the rejection to our attention.   We are very sorry that [redacted] is still
saying that we are making things up.  We
have provided Picture proof to the damage to the door and [redacted] is still
not taking any responsibility for the amount of time in-between visits if there
was a issue as she claims after the repairs, and even when she chooses not to
wait to have us look at the car for the issue when she was in for service which
is notes on the repair order that she did not want to wait and was even signed
by her as she left.  And as far as
belittle employees I could go in with all the employees and go over all the
nasty things that her and her husband have said to them including when they had
a employee call me after I left and demanded I come back or the fact that we
have other customer come to us after she leave and apologize to us for what we
just had to deal with.  What I want to do
is just go over the facts.  We get paid
to fix cars plan and simple, so if there is a problem that we can find on a car
 especially under warranty because it is
a guarantee sale we are going to find the issue.  On the Routan van we do not get paid for
looking at any issues if we can’t find one. 
At the same time I have to follow the guide lines laid out by VWOA on
warranty so when we see a complaint of a door out of align the first thing we
check is repair history.  Now on this van
we had worked on it two times on the door 14,277 miles since the last
repair.  When this repair was completed
we aligned the door so when it has been so many miles since the repair and
there is damage on the door it shows outside influence that caused the issue,
that being said had she come back in even within 2,000 miles of the repair we
would have taken care of it no questions asked but there are too many things
that could happen to the door in 14,277. 
Now to make try and resolve this issue I’m willing to make this final
offer.  [redacted] can take it to [redacted] within the next 30 day
to have the door aligned.  I will split
the cost with her for the adjustment 50/50. 
The service manager of these dealerships can call me for a PO for my
portion and I will pay them directly. 
Please let me know.
 
 
[redacted]

[redacted]Thank you for bringing the issues to our attention.  The following are the facts in the History of
[redacted].  I will address the issues
in the following order, Door Alignment, AC Issue, Shifting issues . I will also
send over a copy of the service records to your...

office later this afternoon to
show all the dates and mileage when the car was in for Diagnosis.
 
The First time that [redacted] came in for an issue with
the Passenger sliding door was 6/26/13 at 10,560 miles on Ro 297811.  On this ro the complaint was the right
sliding door was noisy.  When the Tech
Diagnosed the car he found that it needed a lower hinge and ordered the
part.  The car came back in on 7/3/13 at
10,691 miles on RO 298476.  During this
visit we installed the Lower door hinge on the pass sliding door.  The car was brought back in on 9/23/13 at
14,560 miles on RO [redacted] the Complaint was that the passenger side rear door
is still making noise.  We found that the
upper hinge was bent and ordered a upper hinge for the door.  The car came back in 10/3/13 at 14,704 miles
RO [redacted].  At this time the ro complaint
was that their pass sliding door isn’t closing on its own intermittently SOP
part.  At this time we replaced the upper
hinge and guide.  We did note that we believed
the hinge was bent do to pulling down on the door but could not prove it so we
still replaced it under warranty.  The
car then came back on 7/21/14 at 21,115 miles. 
The customer was complaining that the passenger side sliding door sits
higher in the rear then it should.  The
customer did not want to wait at this time to have us look at the door.  The car then came back in on 5/4/15 at 28,981
miles on RO [redacted].  The complaint was
that the passenger sliding door is out of alignment and making a grinding noise
when operated.  We looked at the door and
could not verify and noises or issues with the operation of the door.  We did look at the fitment of the door and
found the rear of the door was slightly above the line of the chrome trim by
around a ¼ inch.  Upon inspection we
found multi ding, dents and scratches on the door and the side of the car
please see the attached pictures for these. 
Some of the impact was on the back of the door at the door gap which
could knock the door out of alignment. 
So taking this into consideration the fact that it had been 18,290 miles
since the lower hinge was installed and 14,277 miles on it since the upper
hinge was installed and the fact that the alignment of the door was checked
after each repair and the customer never called or brought the car in after the
repair complaining about  adjustment
issues until a extreme amount of time from the repair and the damage that was
on the car that it is outside influence and even under their warranty,
adjustments are only covered for the first 12 months of service or 12,000 miles
and the car is far out of that warranty.
 
Now to the Ac concern. 
The first time that [redacted] came in for an ac concern was 5/4/15 at
28,978 miles on RO [redacted].  The complaint
was that the A/C  is not cold.  When the Tech diag the car he found that the
AC was working correctly.  We then called
[redacted] to ask if when she is using the A/C that she was turning on the
recirculation button.  At this point [redacted] got very irate with my employee saying that she was calling her stupid because
of course she knows how to turn this button on which then followed by several
calls to me by [redacted] and her Husband yelling at me that my employees are
calling her a It because they were asking a question to Diag the car.
 
Now to the Shifting concern. 
The first time that we looked at the car for this concern was 12/11/12
at 4,571 on RO [redacted].  The complaint was
that there is a hard engagement when shifting from park to drive.  The tech tested the shifting concern by
shifting the car from park to drive 20 time and found that the car was shifting
properly and there was no problem found. 
The next time that the car was in was on 9/25/13 at 14,560 miles RO
[redacted].  The complaint was that when the
econ button is off, the car is still having a harsh shift intermittently.  The tech drove the car 5 miles and was unable
to duplicate the concern.  The car was
operating to manufacture specs.  The next
time that the car was in for this concern was 5/4/15 at 28,981 miles RO
[redacted].  The complaint was that the vehicles
is shifting hard.  The tech drove the car
3 miles and was unable to duplicate the concern.
 
So now that you have the service history broke down we have
looked at [redacted] car multi times and have done everything we can to try
and duplicate the concerns that she was having all while [redacted] and her
husband were belittling my staff when they would call and ask questions or if
they were given a answer that they did not like they would get very irate with
us it this was over multi visits.  We do
stand behind all of our work however there is a responsibility of the customer
in a timely manner to bring to our attention if there is a issue with a repair
that we have performed.  Taking that into
consideration and the damage to the car which could cause the issues, and the
fact that even after the 2nd bracket was replaced on the car there
was still 14,000 miles put on the car after the repair in which anything could
have happened and since the alignment of the door was check after every repair
and the customer never had any complaints on the repairs after they were
completed.  We did ask [redacted] to
seek service elsewhere do to her belittling and argumentative altitude towards
and my staff, and the fact that no matter what questions we asked or if we give
them a answer that they do not like we are according to her husband lying, or
calling them a It, or we don’t know what we are doing.  And you cant to business with someone that
does not believe anything that you are saying. 
I will be more than happy to have our body shop align her door for her
at our cost but she would be responsible for that repair.  If you have any other questions or concerns
please feel free to let me know.
 
[redacted]

[redacted]   Thank you for bringing this complaint to our attention.  Ms [redacted] did bring her 2006 Volkswagen Jetta VIN number [redacted] on 9-28-17 with 85,871 miles.  The car was driven in at this time.  The complaints on the car were as follows 1: Cust...

states that there check engine light is on please check and advice.  2: C/S states that there window is inop, please check and advise.  3: C/S air bag light is on.  4: C/S has a light indicator on, please check and advise.  5:  27 point inspection.  6: LOF (Lube oil and filter), 7: replace wipers.  Upon diagnosing the car for concern 1 the check engine light when the car was scanned we found codes P0420 for Catalyst Efficiency, P0480 for Cooling fan #1, P1951 for cooling fan #2, P0411 Secondary air incorrect flow.  We priced the customer the Catalytic converter for $1,375.00, both cooling fans $752.00, combi valve $490.00.  For concern 2 we found that the driver’s side master switch was not putting out a signal.  We priced a new master switch $247.60 plus tax.  For concern 3: when the air bag system was scanned we found codes 1217, and 1218 for side air bag in seat on the driver’s side and passenger side seats.  We priced the customer both air bags $958.00 for concern 4: We found that the peanut bulb in the headlight is out and the pass side turn signal is broken.  We priced the bulb and the turn signal assembly $192.00.  On the Multipoint inspection we found that the front tires were low on tread on the inside of the tires and the rear were at 5-6 32nd and had some dry rot and cracking, The vacuum pump is leaking oil, the 8 pin harness for the transmission is leaking fluid, both rear coil springs are extremely rusted, rear brake pads are at 1.5-2mm, Drivers side cv boot is split.  Also after the car sat in our shop over night it would not start without being jumped started so we quoted a battery.  We priced Tires $580.00, Vacuum Pump $827.00, Transmission harness $913.00 plus tax, Rear springs $452.00, Rear brakes $405.00, CV Boot $271.00, Battery $200.00.  So on the first 4 concerns all we did was diag all the problems that the customer came in for on the car.  Now when the 27 point inspection this is to find any safety items on the car.  Now we have not seen this car in our service department since 4-14-2011 at 44,482 so we always do a thorough inspection because if a safety or  maintenance items was to get through the shop without being noted or the customer was to get hurt then we are liable for this.  The tire are just worn out which is why they were quoted a low tire tread/ dry rot is extremely dangerous for the customer to be driving on.  The oil leaks on the car the first on are the Vacuum pump.  This is located on the side of the engine and above the transmission.  Most of the oil will catch on top of the transmission and the rest will catch on the belly pan of the car.  The transmission harness that is leaking is in the front side of the transmission so it also would be caught by the belly pan.  The only reason that the rear springs were quoted was the fact of how rusty they are and they will need to be replaced in the future so we make the customer aware of items they will need.  We priced the rear brakes because they were below the minimum pad thickness were they should be replaced.  We quoted a cv boot due to the fact the boot is torn and the grease is coming out if not fixed it will need the axel replaced not just a boot.  And we quoted the battery due to the car not starting after sitting without being jump started.  We do not defraud any one we make sure that all customers are informed of what their car needs every time it comes in.  I do have pictures showing that there is oil under the car, on the belly pan of the car, also showing the torn CV boot.  Also I have a picture showing a washer solvent line fixed elsewhere with medical items.  The reason this is important it shows that while we already know the car initially came in for issues that needed thousands of dollars of repair but the regular maintenance of the car for wear and tear such as the oil leaks have not been well maintained.  We did not cause any of these issues we just had to break the bad news to the customer on all the repairs that it needed.  Also I would like to note the customer did drive the car out of the dealership just like it drove in.  Even though we did not cause any of these issues with the customer car we are willing to discount the service for the customer if they are interested.  I will extended our employee pricing for a one time only deal which will drop the labor from $105.00 per hour to $60.00 per hour and 10% over cost on parts.  Please let me know if this is something they are interested in.     Steven R[redacted] Service Director Kerry Volkswagen

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, we would like to know your view on the matter.] 
To whom it may concern,
We do not feel this complaint is resolved. Mr. R[redacted] still
is not accepting the responsibility of this issue of our VW Routan. He
continues to place accusations against us, the customer.
The “proof” of the damages on our van by those pictures are farfetched.
We were first presented these pictures here on the Revdex.com response. Those pictures
show a lot of shadows of the ground and reflections of other items around. At
no time did Mr. R[redacted] show us these pictures and compared them to our van in
person. I would be happy to have my van reexamined by another dealership, at
Kerry VW expense, to show that there has been nothing but accusations. I have
been honest and forthcoming about all superficial scratches of normal wear and
tear and the one dent that I know I did.
As for the time between visits to get the issue addressed.
We were clearly told that this issue was “not a pressing matter” and that we
were at no time advised that we have a “time limit”. If I signed a paper to
release my car that states that I refused to wait, this was not known to me.
This should have been presented to me with my knowledge before leaving. We
purchased a 7 year warranty for our van when purchased new in 2012. There is no
“time limit” on repairs when under a warranty. But this issue is not a warranty
issue. This is the wrong doing of the service department. We were pushed off by
the staff of Kerry VW to get this repair done in a “timely manner”. His states
“We do not get paid for looking at any issues if we can’t find one”. We have
been treated as if we are bothering them with our issues. Last time we looked
we are the customer and they are the service center. We have the right to
request issues to be examined, no matter how many times we need the issues to
be looked at. That is how a service center knows what the customer needs to be
addressed and fixed on their vehicle.
Again Mr. R[redacted] is accusing us of “belittling” the
employees. Again he is not taking responsibility of taking care of the issues
of the customer. Making us look like this awful customer that is such a bother.
Yes the customer is going to be upset when the issue that is repeatedly trying
to be addressed with little or no responsibility of the service department. But
still, at no point, have I mistreated the employees of Kerry VW when addressing
them. I have admitted that I did get a little upset when the employee called
Mr. R[redacted] and he refused to come and talk with us in person. Also I have
admitted that my husband did get a temper with Mr. R[redacted] and Mr. H[redacted] after
the issue has been to at its breaking point. As a frustrated customer we feel
that we can only take so much accusations and not taking the responsibility of
the care of their customer due to “we do not get paid for looking at any issues
if we can’t find them.”
As for the offer for us to go to another dealership for the
repair. We refuse to take our van back to Kerry VW to get the repair due to the
service that has been given and how we have been treated. We do not accept
50/50 due to this issue that was done by their service department. It is the
responsibility of Kerry VW to pay 100%. We presented the issues in plenty of
time. We did take the responsibility to come and get this done in your “timely
matter” but we were pushed off telling us it wasn’t a “pressing matter” and to
“inform when bring back for service”. Then the service people “forget” to
address the issues then say that we “chose not to wait to have us look at the
car for the issue”. This is irresponsible of Kerry VW and they chose not to
address the issue, and pushed us to this point. You can only take so much.
Regards,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, below are the details of the issues still unresolved:We've NEVER EVER had any problems with this car not starting or running, or seen any leaks in our garage or driveway, so we know that those two issues were fabrications of some kind. This is the only part of the diagnostic we had issues with, as we are well aware that older cars must be maintained. Not bringing the car for maintenance to Kerry Volkswagen is irrelevant, as it is maintained by a different shop we use. As stated to the initial Service Advisor upon arrival, the check engine lights and other maintenance lights would light up at random times, and then stop lighting up after a short time, so the driver assumed the car's issues were not important, or at least not a long term problem. The lighting system to advise the owner of maintenance itself doesn't even work. The car has less than 85k miles on it, is garaged 70% of the time, and has a protective jacket underneath to avoid dirt and moisture. At this stage, we feel the Volkswagen brand has troubles with its Service being completely honest, and its cars from being low quality and defective. We cannot understand why air bags need to be replaced or major parts of the car are so rusted out they need to be replaced ona garaged car with low mileage.   
To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, we have purchased a brand new vehicle, and are selling this 2006 Jetta to a Volkswagen mechanic who is going to double check all of the listed issues in Kerry Volkswagen's diagnostic, advise us of his findings merely to satisfy our curiosity, and resell the car once properly fixed. I consider this matter unresolved to my satisfaction, but resolved nonetheless. 
Regards,
[redacted]