Closet Crafters

Complaint:
I am rejecting this response because:
When we first contacted Closet Crafters we were never informed that the company was sold in Nor, were we told they would not cover the product because it was sold by a previous ownerJoyce Hardison was the designer that did our entire home when we first purchased their products in 2006. Now Joyce is the new owner for Closet Crafters and will not stand behind her product she designedIt is the same designer and product. The bottom line is Closet Crafters does not stand behind their product
Regards,
H*** ***

We have installed numerous jobs for this client, the last being garage cabinets in March of 2006.
When he phoned and told us the cabinets came off the wall we asked for photos so we could understand what happened. Nothing was ever mentioned by the client about anything being destroyed underneath the cabinetsI also asked if the cabinet had been overloaded, but did not infer that was the case until after we saw the picturesIn years of business, our company has never had a garage cabinet “fall off” the wall so we were concerned. I had my shop manager and also my lead installer examine the photos to see if they could diagnose the problem. In doing so they both commented that it looked like someone had put pressure on top of the cabinet and that it looked “ripped” from the wall. First the client complained of one cabinet and then several days later said it was two cabinets. We do guarantee our workmanship, however, an issue would have arosesoon after installation if there was a workmanship issue, not years laterSince we did not believe this was a defect in our workmanship or installation, we offered to build and install new cabinets but would have to charge for them The client kept asking if we would give him a “better deal”, though we had already discounted the cabinetsWe said we could give him the better price if we installed the cabinets when we have another install in his area (this way we wouldn't have to charge a trip charge)We are typically in his area every few weeks, not an unreasonable amount of time for an installation. At no time was I ever rude to the clientI did not say I would have to have the issue approved by a manager, what I told him was that I would need to discuss the issue with our shop manager, as he is more experienced and aware of technical aspects of cabinetryThe client was aware I am the owner and there would be no reason for me to tell him a manager had to approve this service.As a side note, the client’s wife called us in February of and said she needed more shelving for her closet so we ordered the material, cut and milled the shelves for her to pick up. We told her there would be a charge of $for the shelves which included a courtesy discount of 20% because she was aprevious client and she agreed The person who picked them up said the client would mail a check and after numerous phone calls and billing, the client still has not paid, even though she told us several times she was sending a check. This was mentioned to the client when he called about the garage cabinet and he said he was “unaware that his wife had not sent the check and would talk to her immediately”He then called back and said she didn't think there would be a charge for the shelves, even though she had told us she would mail us a checkIn other words, they still have an outstanding balance of $from 2013.Our last conversation with the client, which was very friendly, ended with him saying he would discuss ordering new cabinets with his wife and let us know what he decidedWe have not heard anything directly from him since then

Complaint:
I am rejecting this response because:
In response to the forwarded letter from the cabinet company, it is apparent that the issues we brought up are valid. Let address the main issue firstThe cabinets came crashing down off of the wall in the middle of the nightThankfully no one was hurt, my child elderly mother, wife, small dogHowever, my vehicle received scratches from the cabinetsThere is no way there was pressure applied from aboveIn all of the years of home ownership I have never found a company that is more reluctant to fix their wrong doings than this oneWe chose them because they offered a "lifetime warranty." I have owned many properties and apartment complexes and have never seen any cabinet "fall off" the wall.
When we called them, they were reluctant to send anyone out once againThey actually didn't even have our plans, we had to send them a copyThey were already reluctant to fix it without even knowing what was installedWe are not builders yet took pictures as requested by them and then they started immediately to put the blame on the customerIsn't it odd that they were assessing the situation from pictures we took? They should have sent someone out immediately to inspect it in person and assess why they fell and not assume that it was our fault
They are a cabinet company who lies about their product warrantyThen to "fix" the problem they are going to charge us $for replacementsHowever, if we would have agreed to that, Joyce told us we would need to wait until they had someone in our area to repair the cabinetsWhy would I ever trust them to do any more work for us? If I have to buy two new cabinets to replace their failure then I would never want to give them more moneyWe spent figures with this company and all they want to do is avoid driving to our area and replacing their poor installationNow we get to wait and see what else is going to start falling off of the walls.
They have put us in danger with their poor installation and have the nerve to blame usI would have expected a reputable company to send someone out ASAP to inspect the problem and be prepared immediately to replace it at no chargeIn addition they should have offered to do a thorough inspection of the remainder of all of our cabinets installed throughout the house by them to make sure this doesn't happen againWe are not asking for anything freeWe paid for those cabinets and installation by what we thought was a professional company that backed up their workIt is obvious that they were not installed correctly and therefore failedSure in the shock of the moment and a pile of wood on the ground we didn't "define" that it was two cabinets and not just one, we were just trying to figure out what happenedWe didn't know we needed to send them an inventory of all that was crushed when it happenedWe didn't want to move anything so they could see it in the original failureOut of good will, we did as we were asked by them and sent them the plans and picturesI was actually shocked that they didn't seem surprised.
Now to address issue number two since they just want to chip away at us and not stand up to their failuresAfter installation of my wife's closet, she could never get the configuration to work correctlyThey suggested that she needed some additional shelves to complete it properlyAgain they refused to bring the shelves to our house as they obviously do everything they can to avoid driving the distance to where we liveWe sent someone to their office in Ventura to pick up the shelves and once she arrived she was never told there would be a charge for the shelves. It wasn’t until after she picked them up that we were told there was a chargeWe were confused because nothing was said about a charge to the shelvesOnce again we thought they were standing behind their work and fixed a problem that should have been installed in the first placeUnaware that there was a charge, it was in dispute and the issue droppedIn addition, if they were charging us, they should have deducted a "trip charge" since we had to pick up our own shelves
Now the pattern is obviousEven when they do something incorrectly, they will charge the customer for the company’s mistakesAfter spending the amount of money we did, you know they made a great profitTo sit back and watch them not honor their word or workmanship is really a disgrace and shows how they want to take advantage of their customers
Their unwillingness to address and take responsibility for their failures is disgusting and puts their consumers in a lose lose situationIf I installed something and said it was guaranteed for a "lifetime", and it fell or malfunctioned, I would be the first one there to fix it and take responsibility for the costIt is not a loss to themIt may cut a bit into their profit margin which obviously they value more than they do their customers or workmanshipIt is about principal and following through with what they advertiseTheir Lifetime Warranty is advertisement and should be removed from their advertisementsIt is a lie and completely untrueWho knows how many other unsuspecting clients had to pay for their own repairs with them?
We were just asking them to back up what they committed toWe should have asked for them to refund the amount of the original cabinets and replace them for no chargeOur original cabinets were a complete lossNow they expect us to buy moreWe have been fair and reasonable and their response has been beyond disappointing and puts us in a dangerous positionHopefully no additional cabinets will fall, but if they do, at least we have it documented here with the Revdex.comWe are in fear of our life and safety in our own home because of this company that does less than adequate work and does not care about the position the client is inWho could feel safe after something like this happened? If they cannot back up their workmanship they should not be doing business that can endanger people
We thought we were getting what we paid for, professionalism and quality productUnfortunately that is not the caseConsumers should be warned that if the workmanship fails, they will be paying to get it fixed and the warranty is not real or valid
Regards,
H*** ***

Review: They are refusing to fix a faulty product that is covered by their warranty. The cabinets they installed were not installed properly. Two cabinets in my garage fell and damaged everything underneath. I called and spoke to J[redacted] who was extremely rude. She immediately said the cabinets fell because we had too much weight inside of them. I dont know how she could say that over the phone without looking at the cabinets. I told her she was mistaken because I only had a few office supplies that were not heavy. I asked for her to send someone to come and fix them. She told me they could not come and if they do come it would have to be on a day they had an installation near my residence. She also misrepresented herself by telling me that she will have to get this matter approved by her manager. She is the owner of the company she shouldn't need an approval. By the end of the conversation she told me they will not fix or replace the damaged cabinets. They have a warranty that states "Our products are guaranteed as long as you own your home."Desired Settlement: I need the damaged cabinets repaired and replaced.

Business

Response:

We have installed numerous jobs for this client, the last being garage cabinets in March of 2006. When he phoned and told us the cabinets came off the wall we asked for photos so we could understand what happened. Nothing was ever mentioned by the client about anything being destroyed underneath the cabinets. I also asked if the cabinet had been overloaded, but did not infer that was the case until after we saw the pictures. In 32 years of business, our company has never had a garage cabinet “fall off” the wall so we were concerned. I had my shop manager and also my lead installer examine the photos to see if they could diagnose the problem. In doing so they both commented that it looked like someone had put pressure on top of the cabinet and that it looked “ripped” from the wall. First the client complained of one cabinet and then several days later said it was two cabinets. We do guarantee our workmanship, however, an issue would have arosesoon after installation if there was a workmanship issue, not 9 years later. Since we did not believe this was a defect in our workmanship or installation, we offered to build and install new cabinets but would have to charge for them. The client kept asking if we would give him a “better deal”, though we had already discounted the cabinets. We said we could give him the better price if we installed the cabinets when we have another install in his area (this way we wouldn't have to charge a trip charge). We are typically in his area every few weeks, not an unreasonable amount of time for an installation. At no time was I ever rude to the client. I did not say I would have to have the issue approved by a manager, what I told him was that I would need to discuss the issue with our shop manager, as he is more experienced and aware of technical aspects of cabinetry. The client was aware I am the owner and there would be no reason for me to tell him a manager had to approve this service.As a side note, the client’s wife called us in February of 2013 and said she needed more shelving for her closet so we ordered the material, cut and milled the shelves for her to pick up. We told her there would be a charge of $143 for the 7 shelves which included a courtesy discount of 20% because she was aprevious client and she agreed. The person who picked them up said the client would mail a check and after numerous phone calls and billing, the client still has not paid, even though she told us several times she was sending a check. This was mentioned to the client when he called about the garage cabinet and he said he was “unaware that his wife had not sent the check and would talk to her immediately”. He then called back and said she didn't think there would be a charge for the shelves, even though she had told us she would mail us a check. In other words, they still have an outstanding balance of $143 from 2013.Our last conversation with the client, which was very friendly, ended with him saying he would discuss ordering 2 new cabinets with his wife and let us know what he decided. We have not heard anything directly from him since then.

Consumer

Response:

Review: 10816865

I am rejecting this response because:In response to the forwarded letter from the cabinet company, it is apparent that the issues we brought up are valid. Let address the main issue first. The cabinets came crashing down off of the wall in the middle of the night. Thankfully no one was hurt, my child elderly mother, wife, small dog. However, my vehicle received scratches from the cabinets. There is no way there was pressure applied from above. In all of the years of home ownership I have never found a company that is more reluctant to fix their wrong doings than this one. We chose them because they offered a "lifetime warranty." I have owned many properties and apartment complexes and have never seen any cabinet "fall off" the wall. When we called them, they were reluctant to send anyone out once again. They actually didn't even have our plans, we had to send them a copy. They were already reluctant to fix it without even knowing what was installed. We are not builders yet took pictures as requested by them and then they started immediately to put the blame on the customer. Isn't it odd that they were assessing the situation from pictures we took? They should have sent someone out immediately to inspect it in person and assess why they fell and not assume that it was our fault. They are a cabinet company who lies about their product warranty. Then to "fix" the problem they are going to charge us $700.00 for replacements. However, if we would have agreed to that, Joyce told us we would need to wait until they had someone in our area to repair the cabinets. Why would I ever trust them to do any more work for us? If I have to buy two new cabinets to replace their failure then I would never want to give them more money. We spent 5 figures with this company and all they want to do is avoid driving to our area and replacing their poor installation. Now we get to wait and see what else is going to start falling off of the walls. They have put us in danger with their poor installation and have the nerve to blame us. I would have expected a reputable company to send someone out ASAP to inspect the problem and be prepared immediately to replace it at no charge. In addition they should have offered to do a thorough inspection of the remainder of all of our cabinets installed throughout the house by them to make sure this doesn't happen again. We are not asking for anything free. We paid for those cabinets and installation by what we thought was a professional company that backed up their work. It is obvious that they were not installed correctly and therefore failed. Sure in the shock of the moment and a pile of wood on the ground we didn't "define" that it was two cabinets and not just one, we were just trying to figure out what happened. We didn't know we needed to send them an inventory of all that was crushed when it happened. We didn't want to move anything so they could see it in the original failure. Out of good will, we did as we were asked by them and sent them the plans and pictures. I was actually shocked that they didn't seem surprised. Now to address issue number two since they just want to chip away at us and not stand up to their failures. After installation of my wife's closet, she could never get the configuration to work correctly. They suggested that she needed some additional shelves to complete it properly. Again they refused to bring the shelves to our house as they obviously do everything they can to avoid driving the distance to where we live. We sent someone to their office in Ventura to pick up the shelves and once she arrived she was never told there would be a charge for the shelves. It wasn’t until after she picked them up that we were told there was a charge. We were confused because nothing was said about a charge to the shelves. Once again we thought they were standing behind their work and fixed a problem that should have been installed in the first place. Unaware that there was a charge, it was in dispute and the issue dropped. In addition, if they were charging us, they should have deducted a "trip charge" since we had to pick up our own shelves. Now the pattern is obvious. Even when they do something incorrectly, they will charge the customer for the company’s mistakes. After spending the amount of money we did, you know they made a great profit. To sit back and watch them not honor their word or workmanship is really a disgrace and shows how they want to take advantage of their customers. Their unwillingness to address and take responsibility for their failures is disgusting and puts their consumers in a lose lose situation. If I installed something and said it was guaranteed for a "lifetime", and it fell or malfunctioned, I would be the first one there to fix it and take responsibility for the cost. It is not a loss to them. It may cut a bit into their profit margin which obviously they value more than they do their customers or workmanship. It is about principal and following through with what they advertise. Their Lifetime Warranty is false advertisement and should be removed from their advertisements. It is a lie and completely untrue. Who knows how many other unsuspecting clients had to pay for their own repairs with them? We were just asking them to back up what they committed to. We should have asked for them to refund the amount of the original cabinets and replace them for no charge. Our original cabinets were a complete loss. Now they expect us to buy more. We have been fair and reasonable and their response has been beyond disappointing and puts us in a dangerous position. Hopefully no additional cabinets will fall, but if they do, at least we have it documented here with the Revdex.com. We are in fear of our life and safety in our own home because of this company that does less than adequate work and does not care about the position the client is in. Who could feel safe after something like this happened? If they cannot back up their workmanship they should not be doing business that can endanger people. We thought we were getting what we paid for, professionalism and quality product. Unfortunately that is not the case. Consumers should be warned that if the workmanship fails, they will be paying to get it fixed and the warranty is not real or valid.

Regards,

H[redacted]

Business

Response:

As mentioned before, Closet Crafters has never

experienced a cabinet “fall off” the wall for no apparent reason. When we

install cabinets, we first install a cleat/nailer on the wall, which is screwed

into the studs for maximum support and security. The cabinets are then attached

to these cleats. The pictures provided by the client show the cleat still

attached to the wall, which means the only way for the cabinet to come off the

wall would be for it to be pulled on or overloaded. If the cabinets were

installed improperly, the cleat would have come off the wall as well.

Whenever a client calls with an issue regarding a

previous installation, we always ask for pictures if possible so we can better

understand the situation. We only asked for pictures of the current situation,

not the original plans, though the client did send us the plans he had. This

install was complete in 2006, over 9 years ago, and was completed under the

previous owner of Closet Crafters. We keep records for 7 years as required by

law and are not even required to keep records from previous ownership. Any

records not available prior to 2010, when we purchased Closet Crafters, are out

of our control.

As mentioned in our previous response, we are a small

company and only have one installation crew available to service the client’s

geographical area. We are usually within the area at least once every 2 weeks,

which we feel is a reasonable amount of time for an installation. When the

client first called, he didn’t convey any urgency or concern for his belongings

being damaged or anyone in the home being injured. He didn’t even mention that

anything below the cabinets was damaged or that his car had been scratched,

which we feel most clients would mention right away.

Regarding the second issue the client is mentioning about

his closet installation never working properly (which was a completely

different project). The closet designs were completed and signed off by the

client in 2004. It wasn’t until 2013 that the client called us to request more

shelves, again 9 years after the initial installation. At no time in between

were we ever informed that there were any issues with the closet design. It is

very common for clients of ours to request additional shelves, closet rods or

accessories in the years following installation as their clothing and storage

needs change. We are happy to build these additional shelves / accessories for

the client to pick up at our office and always charge for them as they are

considered additional work. We have a minimum trip charge to deliver / install as

do most home service and construction companies. The total charge for the

shelves was explained to the client prior to work being completed and an

invoice was given to the client’s representative when he/she came to pick up

the shelves. Usually, we will not release products if they are not paid for but

out of goodwill to the client, since we had done business with them before and

because they had come to pick them up, we said we would release the shelves and

follow up with the client regarding billing. Several times, we contacted the

client and were always told a check was on its way, but a check was never received.

Now the client states that they don’t believe they should have to pay for the

shelves. The amount still remains open on our books.

We stand behind our workmanship and guarantee our

product against workmanship defects or issues, which was not the case in this

situation. I would also like to mention, however, that since we took over

ownership of Closet Crafters in 2010 and did not purchase any liabilities of

the previous owner, we are not legally responsible for any projects completed

prior to August 2010. We do try to help all of our previous clients when we can

and when the situation seems fair to do so.

Consumer

Response:

Review: 10816865

I am rejecting this response because:When we first contacted Closet Crafters we were never informed that the company was sold in 2010. Nor, were we told they would not cover the product because it was sold by a previous owner. Joyce Hardison was the designer that did our entire home when we first purchased their products in 2006. Now Joyce is the new owner for Closet Crafters and will not stand behind her product she designed. It is the same designer and product. The bottom line is Closet Crafters does not stand behind their product.

Regards,

H[redacted]