Colorado Bathrooms Inc

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2015/08/27) */
we are currently trying to finalize this with the client and is ongoing.Fro the very start, these customers were always adding things that were not in the contract and didn't want to pay for anything that wasn't in the contract and kept adding...

to it almost everyday and would get mad when we said it would be a change order. They also was talking bad about the owner and the company to the installer and the installer didn't want to work there because of the way they kept talking to him and bad mouthing the company even from the first few days of demo. The customers also wanted the installer to do more extra work with out the knowledge of the owner and didn't want to pay change orders etc. On the 4th day, they wanted permits and didn't want to pay for them as permits are options the clients chooses and pays for separate. we did everything we could to send a plumber to the job and get the plumbing permit as our regular plumber was tied up on another job, The client treated him very badly and said not to send anyone else there and they wanted to cancel the contract and I said I will think about it and then agreed to cancel the contract. I sent them an invoice for all work and materials paid for to date. Of course they don't agree with anything on it, but we are due up to that date of the client canceling our contract what we have in the job in labor materials and all cost incurred to that point. I will be sending them a refund for the difference on the deposit left to that date. These clients are way out there and want anything and everything else they can come up with for free. No one can work with them as everyone I sent, they had a problem with as well as myself.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2015/09/08) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Mr. [redacted] has done nothing to finalize this with us. We have not received the money he agrees he owes us nor receipts for money he claims to have spent. We have the items he purchased from [redacted] sitting in our garage that we need to return so we can get our money back. Assassinating our character does not forgive him of his debt to us. By the way, today, we called the [redacted] plumber he sent to our home whom he said we treated badly. Mr. [redacted] needs to get his story straight, because the plumber said we were very kind to him and also that he had not even talked to Mr. [redacted] since that day.
We did offer to let Mr. [redacted] out of the contract after less than 4 days of demo on two walls of a small bathroom when we found that he was not licensed to get the permits required in our city, and that he was getting his workers off Craigslist whom he had never even met. He says that permits are optional, but that is just not true and should raise red flags for anyone having major renovation work done. Not only are they required, they protect consumers from shoddy workmanship that can have serious consequences that can include fires and having to tear out the work and have it redone.
We never asked for anything for free or "added" anything to the contract. In fact, we gave him a $26,000 advance of our money to gut and fully remodel two bathrooms. We asked that he keep records so we could see where the money was going. Not only did he not do that, he now complains that we wanted to provide input on the design. When we initially voiced concern that the contract was devoid of details, drawings, or monetary allotments for fixtures, labor, and materials, he said the reason was that we would design it together as it was being builtsomething he called a "design build", and that we were supposed to tell him what we wanted as we went along. Note that when the contract was cancelled, nothing had been built; it was still being demo'd. The only time we heard the words "change order" was during demo when we realized he was going to leave a light switch hidden behind an entry door and we asked that it be relocated. (That seems like a reasonable request and something a good contractor would not have to be asked to do.)
Mr. [redacted] is charging us:
$4,000 for labor when his installer spent less than 4 days doing demo and shopping at our local Home Depot. Mr. [redacted] said he cost $450/day. That shows we only owe Mr. [redacted] $1800 total for labor.
$2,200 for building materials. Mr. [redacted] must have receipts but refuses to provide us with them so we can return them to Home Depot. Most of it is sitting in our garage; we tried to bring it back to Home Depot, but they will not take that much back without a receipt. We estimate the actual cost to be about $1000.
$8,500 for two toilets, one simple bathtub, two sinks, shower and bath fixtures, a grab bar, and two towel warmers. Most of these items were inexpensive Delta fixtures, and we estimate the actual cost to be no more than $4,000. We called the vendor, Winnelson Plumbing Supplies, in an attempt to get the actual amount charged to Mr. [redacted], but they would not give us the prices, stating that although it may have been our money that purchased them, their customer was Mr. [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] will not provide us with the receipts.
$450 for a deposit on one sink cabinet. We were told this one cabinet cost $600 total. If we are to pay $450 for the deposit, we would like to pay the rest and get the cabinet. Given that option, we will pay the entire amount, which is $150 more, in exchange for the cabinet.
$750 for the tile deposit. We purchased this tile after the contract was cancelled and therefore got the original receipt where it clearly showed Mr. [redacted] had only paid a $550 deposit, not $750. He did not go with us to pick it out or help us design it, so he clearly and knowingly overcharged us $200. (And he says that WE want stuff for free? Seems like it is he that wants our money for free!)
$900 to install a French door that we purchased ourselves. This was not part of the contract, but Mr. [redacted] did send the installer to do the job. The quality was so poor that he was not brought back to finish the job. Mr. [redacted] and his bathroom installer even agreed that it was a poor job. We will have to have the job completely redone and have the drywall repaired that he damaged, so we feel we do not owe him anything.
The bottom line:
Clearly we have different recollections and opinions of what transpired. That aside, the facts remain:
Fact 1 - We jointly agreed to cancel the contract: No disagreement with that.
Fact 2 - Mr. [redacted] agreed that he owed us $9,200: Please have Mr. [redacted] send us that check immediately.
Fact 3 - Mr. [redacted] purchased supplies and materials with funds from the $26,000 we provided as a down payment: Have Mr. [redacted] send the receipts that validate those purchases in order to have a transparent and honest reconciliation of the account. That was part of the original solution we provided to the Revdex.com. Mr. [redacted] has not responded to that request.
Fact 4 - [redacted] will not allow us to exchange any of the materials Mr. [redacted] purchased with the funds we provided because we don't have receipts: Please have Mr. [redacted] provide the receipts so we can exchange them for the materials we now need.
Fact 5 - Even though it was our money, [redacted] will not even talk to us, saying that Mr. [redacted] is the customer, not us. That means we have no proof of purchase or warranty coverage, even if a product is defective: Please have Mr. [redacted] provide receipts as proof of purchase. We also need these to reconcile the account.
Fact 6 - Mr. [redacted] is charging us $450 for a deposit he says he placed on a sink cabinet: Mr. [redacted] previously told us the cabinet cost was $600. Please have Mr. [redacted] provide that invoice because we want to purchase the cabinet if we already paid 75% up front.
Fact 7 - We provided (at our expense) a prehung French door, and (outside the contract) Mr. [redacted] sent a poor installer to install it. Mr. [redacted] agreed that the French door installation was never completed because it was substandard: We have to pay a contractor to fix the substandard work. We therefore don't feel we owe anything as a result. On his website Mr. [redacted] guarantees satisfaction. We are not satisfied.
Fact 8 - At best there were 4 days of labor (all demo and shopping). It was done by Mr. [redacted]'s installer, [redacted], who Mr. [redacted] said he pays $450 a day: That comes to $1800 (more than $50 per hour for demo.), not the $4000 he charged us.
We ask that Mr. [redacted] pay back the $9,200 that he agrees he owes us. If he will not provide receipts for the $16,800 he says he spent on our project, then we will have to use our estimates, which show expenditures of 7,500. This means Mr. [redacted] owes us $16,700 (and our cabinet) out of our original $26,000. That still seems like a lot for what we got.
This isn't all that complicated, if we deal with the facts and try to put feelings aside. Let's see if we can get this settled. If Revdex.com offers binding arbitration, we are willing to agree to that. Then we both live with what a neutral third party sees as fair. That sounds reasonable. Once we do that, we can all go our separate ways. I'm sure that would be less stress for both parties.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 15, 2015/10/07) */
I am responding again with my original response...we are currently trying to finalize this with the client and is on going. From the very start, these customers were always adding things that were not in the contract and didn't want to pay for anything that wasn't in the contract and kept adding to it almost everyday and would get mad when we said it would be a change order. They also was talking bad about the owner and the company to the installer and the installer didn't want to work there because of the way they kept talking to him and bad mouthing the company even from the first few days of demo. The customers also wanted the installer to do more extra work with out the knowledge of the owner and didn't want to pay change orders etc. On the 4th day, they wanted permits and didn't want to pay for them as permits are options the clients chooses and pays for separate. we did everything we could to send a plumber to the job and get the plumbing permit as our regular plumber was tied up on another job, The client treated him very badly and said not to send anyone else there and they wanted to cancel the contract and I said I will think about it and then agreed to cancel the contract. I sent them an invoice for all work and materials paid for to date. Of course they don't agree with anything on it, but we are due up to that date of the client canceling our contract what we have in the job in labor materials and all cost incurred to that point. I will be sending them a refund for the difference on the deposit left to that date. These clients are way out there and want anything and everything else they can come up with for free. No one can work with them as everyone I sent, they had a problem with as well as myself.
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 17, 2015/10/20) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
Dear Revdex.com (re: case #XXXXXXXX):
Since we first began this route with Revdex.com on 8/11/15, we have followed the specified process for submitting a complaint against Mr. [redacted] of Colorado Bathrooms Inc., 2890 Ames St., Wheat Ridge, CO. (The internet shows that he also operates under Colorado Bathrooms - [redacted] & [redacted] and More, [redacted] and [redacted] Inc.) However, Mr. [redacted] is not showing the same intent to resolve this issue. The process gives the respondent a deadline to reply to the previous response, and Mr. [redacted] stubbornly either waits to the last minute to submit a response, or is late. His last "response" to us was due on 9/29/15, but he did not submit it until 10/7/15. Not only was it late, it was not a response to what we wrote; it was a cut and paste from his previous response. He even admits this by stating "I am responding again with my original response." In the process, the Revdex.com then asks if we "accept this business' proposed resolution?" How can we accept it when he suggests no resolution, continues to ignore our proposed solution, and attacks us personally? Of course we are offended by his childish and unfounded remarks, but we are trying to focus this case on pertinent facts directed at solving this issue so we can put this behind us. His customer base is seniors and the disabled, so perhaps he has been successful in the past by ignoring complaints until he wears down his victims, but we will persevere. We need Revdex.com to step in now to facilitate and resolve this issue.
Clearly, Mr. [redacted] is insincere when he says he is working with us to pay back even the amount he AGREES he owes us, let alone the amount he REALLY owes us. If he were working with us to pay back any amount, he would have sent us a check or at least an installment by now to show good faith. We provided him with a check for $26,000 on May 22, 2015 to use for the gut and remodel of two bathrooms in our home. He said he would not have the staff until the first week of July to begin the job. That did not prevent him from cashing the check immediately. Then in early July, we conceded to cancel the contract after less than 4 days of demo when it became apparent he was not able to do a credible job. By then, he should have still had most of our deposit. As of this letter, it is October 20, 2015, and he has not returned any of our money.
He was caught lying about the amount he billed us for, which is why he refuses to provide any receipts. This whole mess started when we found out in the first couple of days that not only did he have no intention of getting the required permits, he didn't even have the proper license to get them. Then, because he did not have licensed plumbers and electricians as required to do the work (and as promised on his website), he picked up the phone and called someone he found on [redacted] list. Not knowing who this person was and never even having met him, he gave this person our address and sent him to our home! This was at the very least, negligent, unethical, and dangerous. He makes complaints about such behavior from previous employers, yet, we suspect he also has alienated the subcontractors that used to work for him, which would explain why he has to hire off [redacted] List.
When does a live Revdex.com arbitrator step in to help us with this uncooperative business owner? We suggested a simple solution: Mr. [redacted] provides a verifiable accounting of his expenses to an arbitrator chosen by Revdex.com and we agree to that outcome. Not a complicated solution, yet Mr. [redacted] continues to ignore this viable solution. You have to ask, "why"? In the meantime, he continues to have an A- rating on the Revdex.com website. As this drags out, other people who rely on the Revdex.com ratings may be walking into the same nightmare as we did. PLEASE! Can someone from Revdex.com contact us immediately so we can discuss what options Revdex.com has for us at this point?