Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2014/10/16) */ [redacted] brought in his 2009 Avalanche on X-XX-XXXX with XXXXX miles on it. The oil light was on, no oil on dip stick, engine was 2.6 qts low. Customer declined diagnosis and oil change. Crossroads did top of the oil for customer. On 2-7-2014... [redacted] brough Avalanche back in with XXXXX miles on it. Check Engine for oil leak, oil pressure. Crossroads found no leaks, topped vehicle off 1.5 quarts low. Then drove the vehicle 188 miles with no oil leaks, oil pressure was compatible with GM specs. Miles XXXXX when customer picked the vehicle up. Almost 8 months later on 9-29-2014 [redacted] brings Avalnche in with XXXXXX miles on it stating has dead piston and was in before with low oil pressure. Crossroads tech verified vehicle has cylinder #7 lifter collapsed do to poor maitenance found deposited in valve cover known as sludge. [redacted] got with [redacted] the next business day and covered the issue. [redacted] wasn't happy and stated he wanted it warrantied. [redacted] came in and [redacted] got [redacted] with [redacted] our Service Director at ***'s request and they had a meeting. [redacted] got with our GM Rep to try and get vehicled handled under warranty. Our GM rep NOT CROSSROADS AT ALL OFFERED A [redacted] TRADE IN ALLOWANCE. Our rep even looked at the Avalanche himself. [redacted] called [redacted] and what GM had offered. [redacted] didn't like that. [redacted] offered 30% discounts on parts and labor. [redacted] didn't like that either. On XX-X-XX I spoke with [redacted] on the phone and had [redacted] my Service Director present. [redacted] insisted he wanted the vehicle handled under warranty or basically Crossroads to warranty the vehicle. [redacted] had been talking to GM service side for customers and had some info he related that didn't sound correct. I told [redacted] what our rep had offered and that GM wasn't going to warranty it. I exsplained how warranty work works. [redacted] wanted our reps info. We aren't supposed to give out the dealer side reps info. Thats why the customer has customer service side to call or follow the owners manuel. I can see [redacted] side on what he is supposedly being told by a GM service rep or another dealer. However without having the facts we have and know it could look weird. I get that. [redacted] wanted a phone conference with the service lady he had been speaking with, [redacted] our rep, and myself. [redacted] called our rep and left a message for him and had on 10-10-14. Now take in mind this vehicle has sat here and [redacted] knows whats wrong with it and our stance and GM's. XX-XX-XX I get an email wanting to know about the meeting from ***. As of yet we have not heard back from our rep. I send an email stating that and we are at his MERCY AT GETTING BACK WITH US, NEVER HAVE WE SPOKEN TO HIM ABOUT THE MEETING YET! At 3:32 on XX-XX-XX I sent an email to [redacted] that our rep will come in and meet the week of the 20th next week. I asked what day would work for the ***'s and our rep requested all maintenance records on the vehicle from 50k miles to present. The reason for this is GM has zero history of any work done on the vehicle. This is soley GM requesting this. Next thing I know [redacted] picks his vehicle up drives it knowing it has a bad cylinder and sends me an email with pictures of the dash. On XX-XX-XX we had a meeting with the ***'s. [redacted] , [redacted] my service director at my other store, myself and the ***'s. The ***'s think Crossroads mis diagnoised the vehicle back in February is what I gathered. They want it covered under warranty or Crossroads to warranty it. GM handles the warranty not Crossroads. The Longs in my opinion from the meeting have gotten info from 3 other dealers telling them it can be handled under warranty. Same thing we would probably say if we didn't have all the facts in front of us, however we would hopefully state that to the customer. GM has to pay the claim or the customer will. Now the reason the vehicle set here was soley on the ***'s decision not ours. It also is puzzling that [redacted] drove the vehicle knowing it had a bad lifter. XX-XX-XXXX we got the ***'s to confirm a time to meet with our GM rep on XX-XX-XX at 11:00 am and to bring all maintenace records. I sent an email on the eve of XX-XX-XXXX asking the Longs if 11:00 am would work and what our rep requested. Crossroads is willing to help the ***'s as we shown with a 30% discount. We can't make GM warranty something. We can't base warranty off customers opinion. Crossroads followed GM's specs and protocal. Now in closing the vehicle was not here going on a month! Also [redacted] was informed within 72 hours of all the details. It sat here waiting for an okay to perform work. I have a chain of emails and documents I can provide if needed. Please close the case. Thanks, [redacted] Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 7, 2014/10/17) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) There are a number of inconsistencies I will address in this response. First, I didn't say not to diagnose my vehicle. When it went in for a warranty repair, I had mentioned the oil pressure issue and that I was losing oil, but it wasn't leaking. I explained I did not want to be charged for something under warranty. We set an appointment a couple weeks later. Here is where the dealer failed to recognize a fatal problem in the engine. Yesterday 10/16/14 I sat down with a service manager of a different GM dealership. I had all documents from Crossroads. The service manager agreed that a full diagnostic was not completed on my engine. If you do an internet search on Chevy/GM 5.3 oil consumption, oil pressure, lifter, cam shaft issue" you will literally have page after page of documentation of what an epidemic issue this has become in the XXXX-XXXX engines for Chevy, usually linked to AFM. Crossroads clearly knew by Spring of 2014 the 1000s of documented cases of this issues. The manager even printed out GM memos regarding the steps involved when the exact symptoms my truck was showing are present. GM specifically addressed the oil consumption and oil pressure issues in the AFM 5.3 engines. Crossroads knew this at the time and made zero mention. I only found all this after meeting with Mr. [redacted] and [redacted] at Crossroads on 10/15/14. It took me less than two minutes after I left the meeting being accused of not performing proper maintenance on my truck and having "sludge" in the engine (which I found out from the other GM dealership the cause of in that motor by design). In this meeting we were cursed at and told that issues we had heard in the past at that dealerships service department weren't the manager's problem because and I quote "I inherited this ***". I can produce record of that being said. Plus, [redacted] and his other service manager were in the office so they could attest to the profanity. I was told that my engine had a bunch of sludge in it and that it was running in spec during the tests. Crossroads however could not produce what the "specs" were. GM bulletin to service depts clearly states that there are to be certain tests conducted to properly diagnose rings, piston, lifter and Camshaft issues. They have zero record of doing any of those tests. They have no record that my truck was running at spec PSI. It was running highway speeds at 20. GM spec for that is 30-35. A [redacted] way out of spec. [redacted] stated he hooked up the truck and it read out correct spec. He did not test the pressure at each cylinder or beyond the sensor. Again, the dealership did not follow GM guidelines to properly diagnose my truck under warranty. Mr. [redacted] asked repeatedly why they wouldn't have just fixed it and turned it over to GM warranty and been paid for it. I responded by asking if they are reimbursed by GM the same rate as they charge customers. He first dodged the question then they came up with a figure saying something was a $6 difference. Again, I have record of this all. There were 5 total in the meeting. As for the 30% discount: Mr. [redacted] has stated he has NO authorization to do the work under warranty. This is the first time I've seen the dealership claim that the 30% off their inflated garage price is from the dealership and not GM. The GM rep [redacted] (senior advisor) instructed me on the phone that it was a customer goodwill certificate given through GM. Again, I am receiving conflicting statements of responsibility. I have a printed chat with [redacted] a GM rep where she says "we do not have the ability to extend warranties on our end. That would be done on a dealership level." There is a constant shift of blame between GM and the dealership for an issue that is well documented. I have hundreds of complaints saved. Mr [redacted] in the meeting came across upset that I had made a BBB complaint, he made reference to it multiple times. He claimed that he never said he was at the mercy of hearing back from the GM rep, which I have in an email. He has since kept me updated on the GM rep status and for that I am appreciative. However, he made it clear in the meeting that he believed we would blame their dealership for something no matter what. He also said that in GM's eyes we have never had service done there we haven't bought a car from them (I own 2 Chevy Avalanches 2003 and 2009 - the 03 I've done all maintenance as well and runs awesome) therefore GM wouldn't be willing to help as much because we don't spend enough with them and probably use Midas or some other "Shade tree mechanic" (first time I'd heard that). Obviously, I feel that the more I dig, the more the dealership did not follow GM protocol in properly diagnosing my truck under warranty. It had clear out of spec oil consumption and the dealership ignored the GM directed procedures to properly diagnose the issue. My last resort to settle this without further intervention is the meeting with the GM rep that was set up by Crossroads on Wednesday of next week. I will follow up after that meeting. Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 12, 2014/10/29) */ On 10-22-14 [redacted] and [redacted] met with [redacted] the GM representative, myself [redacted] ***, [redacted] and [redacted] This meeting had been requested by [redacted] and arranged as mentioned in my previous BBB responce. [redacted] also knew to bring all maintenance documents that GM had requested as mentioned and documented. Those documents where to be all maintanence record from 50k miles to present date. I had told [redacted] in several emails, in this previous reply to BBB its stated, even in person and [redacted] asked what all documents. I specifically said to follow his owners manuel and bring everything he had. The reason for these requested documents is no history of service shows up on the vehicle of the ***'s with GM or any GM dealership. [redacted] said he does all his maintenace himself. He told us in the meeting he don't want to pay GM's inflated prices. During the meeting, [redacted] with GM asked for the documents several times. [redacted] didn't provide them or have them as he'd previously stated. [redacted] said if he was to gather them it would be for his benefit and turn over to his attorney. I can't make [redacted] provide the proper documents that GM requested. His vehicle is out of warranty and I truelly believe if he would have provided the proper maintenance history based of his owner's manual and GM requests then GM would have helped him out and warrantied the vehicle or allowed us to goodwill. Even with the vehicle having the 98k miles on it with the history of the vehicle not showing the proper maintenace GM would have requested these documents based off the facts of nothing ever showing up maintenace wise. This is before any warranty claim could be made or paid. [redacted] verified this. [redacted] even mentioned recipts he has gotten to pass [redacted] GM to warranty claims such as [redacted] etc. The manufactor warranty on the vehicle is backed by GM not the dealer. Crossroads offered the ***'s a 30% discount off parts and labor, even offered the ***'s to take to another dealer that the ***'s keep saying they have been told by those dealers they will warranty the vehicle and we can too and should have. The ***'s also say that Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle. If Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle and it was a warranty issue, GM would warranty the vehicle, but only the defective parts, and GM would want to see maintenance history. Per [redacted] with GM, however [redacted] even said we didn't misdiagnose it. Crossroads told the ***'s to take our estimate to other dealers they felt reputable and anything over our cost we would pay the difference. This issue could have been possible resolved under warranty if the proper doc's would have been provided in my own opinion. The next day I got emails from [redacted] stating he was getting legal, going to the attorney general. I called [redacted] and also emailed [redacted] that his issues are with GM on warranty not Crossroads. With the legal mentioned GM made certain requests. I told [redacted] Crossroads was stepping out and I would not be the middle man any longer on passing [redacted] emails to GM. [redacted] threatend GM, me, [redacted] , and a tech with legal action. Crossroads pulled all our offers off the table after the threat of legal action. Crossroads has tried to accomadate the Longs in every way possible, other than simply giving them a free engine. They simply cannot or will not provide the facts that have been asked of them. It has been almost 8 months and 14k miles since Crossroads last seen the ***'s vehicle. Now all of a sudden it's our fault for not warranting the vehicle??? I believe from the meeting the ***'s have a better understanding from GM standpoint and see Crossroads was stating facts and speaking the truth to them. Crossroads can't make GM or the ***'s budge. We are simply stuck in the middle and catching the blame from the ***'s. Crossroads made great offers to help the Longs as GM stated GM offered [redacted] without seeing any documents and stated without those documents requested GM wasn't moving. I don't understand why [redacted] wouldn't provide them to GM but will a attorney to sue.... Make no sense to me or GM. Please close this case. Thanks, [redacted] ***
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2014/10/15) */
Contact Name and Title: *** ***/Owner
Contact Phone: XXX XXX XXXX
Contact Email: ***@crossroadsjoplin.com
*** *** purchased a vehicle from Crossroads Chevrolet-Cadillac on 01/10/When she purchased the vehicle she wanted
to add leather to her new SparkWe agreed to do it and had her sign a "We Owe"! We set an appointment with her and had the leather ordered*** never came in to get the leather added, so after days we sent the leather backLast week we received a phone call from what we thought was *** ***! After talking to this person for a few minutes and letting her complain about the leather, I asked her to verify some information and she did give me all the info that I askedThe one thing that bothered me about the phone call was that it sounded like a something year old girlI remembered that a younger girl was with *** when she purchased the Spark from us and we just so happen to have a copy of this girls drivers license saved in our systemSo I pulled it up while she was yelling at me about the leatherI asked *** if she would let me talk and it went dead silent, like she knew she got caught trying to pretending to be ***After a few moments of silence, I told *** that she could have *** come up her in person and we would get her handledThen we get a Revdex.com complaintWe have copies of the above mentioned signed documents that I can email to whoever needs themCrossroads was very transparent though out this and did nothing to mislead anyonePlease close this case
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2014/10/16) */
[redacted] brought in his 2009 Avalanche on X-XX-XXXX with XXXXX miles on it. The oil light was on, no oil on dip stick, engine was 2.6 qts low. Customer declined diagnosis and oil change. Crossroads did top of the oil for customer. On 2-7-2014...
[redacted] brough Avalanche back in with XXXXX miles on it. Check Engine for oil leak, oil pressure. Crossroads found no leaks, topped vehicle off 1.5 quarts low. Then drove the vehicle 188 miles with no oil leaks, oil pressure was compatible with GM specs. Miles XXXXX when customer picked the vehicle up. Almost 8 months later on 9-29-2014 [redacted] brings Avalnche in with XXXXXX miles on it stating has dead piston and was in before with low oil pressure. Crossroads tech verified vehicle has cylinder #7 lifter collapsed do to poor maitenance found deposited in valve cover known as sludge. [redacted] got with [redacted] the next business day and covered the issue. [redacted] wasn't happy and stated he wanted it warrantied. [redacted] came in and [redacted] got [redacted] with [redacted] our Service Director at [redacted]'s request and they had a meeting. [redacted] got with our GM Rep to try and get vehicled handled under warranty. Our GM rep NOT CROSSROADS AT ALL OFFERED A [redacted] TRADE IN ALLOWANCE. Our rep even looked at the Avalanche himself. [redacted] called [redacted] and what GM had offered. [redacted] didn't like that. [redacted] offered 30% discounts on parts and labor. [redacted] didn't like that either. On XX-X-XX I spoke with [redacted] on the phone and had [redacted] my Service Director present. [redacted] insisted he wanted the vehicle handled under warranty or basically Crossroads to warranty the vehicle. [redacted] had been talking to GM service side for customers and had some info he related that didn't sound correct. I told [redacted] what our rep had offered and that GM wasn't going to warranty it. I exsplained how warranty work works. [redacted] wanted our reps info. We aren't supposed to give out the dealer side reps info. Thats why the customer has customer service side to call or follow the owners manuel. I can see [redacted] side on what he is supposedly being told by a GM service rep or another dealer. However without having the facts we have and know it could look weird. I get that. [redacted] wanted a phone conference with the service lady he had been speaking with, [redacted] our rep, and myself. [redacted] called our rep and left a message for him and had on 10-10-14. Now take in mind this vehicle has sat here and [redacted] knows whats wrong with it and our stance and GM's. XX-XX-XX I get an email wanting to know about the meeting from [redacted]. As of yet we have not heard back from our rep. I send an email stating that and we are at his MERCY AT GETTING BACK WITH US, NEVER HAVE WE SPOKEN TO HIM ABOUT THE MEETING YET! At 3:32 on XX-XX-XX I sent an email to [redacted] that our rep will come in and meet the week of the 20th next week. I asked what day would work for the [redacted]'s and our rep requested all maintenance records on the vehicle from 50k miles to present. The reason for this is GM has zero history of any work done on the vehicle. This is soley GM requesting this. Next thing I know [redacted] picks his vehicle up drives it knowing it has a bad cylinder and sends me an email with pictures of the dash. On XX-XX-XX we had a meeting with the [redacted]'s. [redacted] my service director at my other store, myself and the [redacted]'s. The [redacted]'s think Crossroads mis diagnoised the vehicle back in February is what I gathered. They want it covered under warranty or Crossroads to warranty it. GM handles the warranty not Crossroads. The Longs in my opinion from the meeting have gotten info from 3 other dealers telling them it can be handled under warranty. Same thing we would probably say if we didn't have all the facts in front of us, however we would hopefully state that to the customer. GM has to pay the claim or the customer will. Now the reason the vehicle set here was soley on the [redacted]'s decision not ours. It also is puzzling that [redacted] drove the vehicle knowing it had a bad lifter. XX-XX-XXXX we got the [redacted]'s to confirm a time to meet with our GM rep on XX-XX-XX at 11:00 am and to bring all maintenace records. I sent an email on the eve of XX-XX-XXXX asking the Longs if 11:00 am would work and what our rep requested. Crossroads is willing to help the [redacted]'s as we shown with a 30% discount. We can't make GM warranty something. We can't base warranty off customers opinion. Crossroads followed GM's specs and protocal. Now in closing the vehicle was not here going on a month! Also [redacted] was informed within 72 hours of all the details. It sat here waiting for an okay to perform work. I have a chain of emails and documents I can provide if needed. Please close the case. Thanks, [redacted]
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2014/10/17) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
There are a number of inconsistencies I will address in this response.
First, I didn't say not to diagnose my vehicle. When it went in for a warranty repair, I had mentioned the oil pressure issue and that I was losing oil, but it wasn't leaking. I explained I did not want to be charged for something under warranty. We set an appointment a couple weeks later. Here is where the dealer failed to recognize a fatal problem in the engine. Yesterday 10/16/14 I sat down with a service manager of a different GM dealership. I had all documents from Crossroads. The service manager agreed that a full diagnostic was not completed on my engine. If you do an internet search on Chevy/GM 5.3 oil consumption, oil pressure, lifter, cam shaft issue" you will literally have page after page of documentation of what an epidemic issue this has become in the XXXX-XXXX engines for Chevy, usually linked to AFM. Crossroads clearly knew by Spring of 2014 the 1000s of documented cases of this issues. The manager even printed out GM memos regarding the steps involved when the exact symptoms my truck was showing are present. GM specifically addressed the oil consumption and oil pressure issues in the AFM 5.3 engines. Crossroads knew this at the time and made zero mention. I only found all this after meeting with Mr. [redacted] and [redacted] at Crossroads on 10/15/14. It took me less than two minutes after I left the meeting being accused of not performing proper maintenance on my truck and having "sludge" in the engine (which I found out from the other GM dealership the cause of in that motor by design). In this meeting we were cursed at and told that issues we had heard in the past at that dealerships service department weren't the manager's problem because and I quote "I inherited this [redacted]". I can produce record of that being said. Plus, [redacted] and his other service manager were in the office so they could attest to the profanity. I was told that my engine had a bunch of sludge in it and that it was running in spec during the tests. Crossroads however could not produce what the "specs" were. GM bulletin to service depts clearly states that there are to be certain tests conducted to properly diagnose rings, piston, lifter and Camshaft issues. They have zero record of doing any of those tests. They have no record that my truck was running at spec PSI. It was running highway speeds at 20. GM spec for that is 30-35. A [redacted] way out of spec. [redacted] stated he hooked up the truck and it read out correct spec. He did not test the pressure at each cylinder or beyond the sensor. Again, the dealership did not follow GM guidelines to properly diagnose my truck under warranty. Mr. [redacted] asked repeatedly why they wouldn't have just fixed it and turned it over to GM warranty and been paid for it. I responded by asking if they are reimbursed by GM the same rate as they charge customers. He first dodged the question then they came up with a figure saying something was a $6 difference. Again, I have record of this all. There were 5 total in the meeting. As for the 30% discount: Mr. [redacted] has stated he has NO authorization to do the work under warranty. This is the first time I've seen the dealership claim that the 30% off their inflated garage price is from the dealership and not GM. The GM rep [redacted] (senior advisor) instructed me on the phone that it was a customer goodwill certificate given through GM. Again, I am receiving conflicting statements of responsibility. I have a printed chat with [redacted] a GM rep where she says "we do not have the ability to extend warranties on our end. That would be done on a dealership level." There is a constant shift of blame between GM and the dealership for an issue that is well documented. I have hundreds of complaints saved.
Mr [redacted] in the meeting came across upset that I had made a Revdex.com complaint, he made reference to it multiple times. He claimed that he never said he was at the mercy of hearing back from the GM rep, which I have in an email. He has since kept me updated on the GM rep status and for that I am appreciative. However, he made it clear in the meeting that he believed we would blame their dealership for something no matter what. He also said that in GM's eyes we have never had service done there we haven't bought a car from them (I own 2 Chevy Avalanches 2003 and 2009 - the 03 I've done all maintenance as well and runs awesome) therefore GM wouldn't be willing to help as much because we don't spend enough with them and probably use Midas or some other "Shade tree mechanic" (first time I'd heard that).
Obviously, I feel that the more I dig, the more the dealership did not follow GM protocol in properly diagnosing my truck under warranty. It had clear out of spec oil consumption and the dealership ignored the GM directed procedures to properly diagnose the issue. My last resort to settle this without further intervention is the meeting with the GM rep that was set up by Crossroads on Wednesday of next week. I will follow up after that meeting.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 12, 2014/10/29) */
On 10-22-14 [redacted] and [redacted] met with [redacted] the GM representative, myself [redacted] and [redacted] This meeting had been requested by [redacted] and arranged as mentioned in my previous Revdex.com responce. [redacted] also knew to bring all maintenance documents that GM had requested as mentioned and documented. Those documents where to be all maintanence record from 50k miles to present date. I had told [redacted] in several emails, in this previous reply to Revdex.com its stated, even in person and [redacted] asked what all documents. I specifically said to follow his owners manuel and bring everything he had. The reason for these requested documents is no history of service shows up on the vehicle of the [redacted]'s with GM or any GM dealership. [redacted] said he does all his maintenace himself. He told us in the meeting he don't want to pay GM's inflated prices. During the meeting, [redacted] with GM asked for the documents several times. [redacted] didn't provide them or have them as he'd previously stated. [redacted] said if he was to gather them it would be for his benefit and turn over to his attorney. I can't make [redacted] provide the proper documents that GM requested. His vehicle is out of warranty and I truelly believe if he would have provided the proper maintenance history based of his owner's manual and GM requests then GM would have helped him out and warrantied the vehicle or allowed us to goodwill. Even with the vehicle having the 98k miles on it with the history of the vehicle not showing the proper maintenace GM would have requested these documents based off the facts of nothing ever showing up maintenace wise. This is before any warranty claim could be made or paid. [redacted] verified this. [redacted] even mentioned recipts he has gotten to pass [redacted] GM to warranty claims such as [redacted] etc. The manufactor warranty on the vehicle is backed by GM not the dealer. Crossroads offered the [redacted]'s a 30% discount off parts and labor, even offered the [redacted]'s to take to another dealer that the [redacted]'s keep saying they have been told by those dealers they will warranty the vehicle and we can too and should have. The [redacted]'s also say that Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle. If Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle and it was a warranty issue, GM would warranty the vehicle, but only the defective parts, and GM would want to see maintenance history. Per [redacted] with GM, however [redacted] even said we didn't misdiagnose it. Crossroads told the [redacted]'s to take our estimate to other dealers they felt reputable and anything over our cost we would pay the difference. This issue could have been possible resolved under warranty if the proper doc's would have been provided in my own opinion. The next day I got emails from [redacted] stating he was getting legal, going to the attorney general. I called [redacted] and also emailed [redacted] that his issues are with GM on warranty not Crossroads. With the legal mentioned GM made certain requests. I told [redacted] Crossroads was stepping out and I would not be the middle man any longer on passing [redacted] emails to GM. [redacted] threatend GM, me, [redacted], and a tech with legal action. Crossroads pulled all our offers off the table after the threat of legal action. Crossroads has tried to accomadate the Longs in every way possible, other than simply giving them a free engine. They simply cannot or will not provide the facts that have been asked of them. It has been almost 8 months and 14k miles since Crossroads last seen the [redacted]'s vehicle. Now all of a sudden it's our fault for not warranting the vehicle??? I believe from the meeting the [redacted]'s have a better understanding from GM standpoint and see Crossroads was stating facts and speaking the truth to them. Crossroads can't make GM or the [redacted]'s budge. We are simply stuck in the middle and catching the blame from the [redacted]'s. Crossroads made great offers to help the Longs as GM stated GM offered [redacted] without seeing any documents and stated without those documents requested GM wasn't moving. I don't understand why [redacted] wouldn't provide them to GM but will a attorney to sue.... Make no sense to me or GM. Please close this case. Thanks, [redacted]
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 5, 2014/10/16) */ [redacted] brought in his 2009 Avalanche on X-XX-XXXX with XXXXX miles on it. The oil light was on, no oil on dip stick, engine was 2.6 qts low. Customer declined diagnosis and oil change. Crossroads did top of the oil for customer. On 2-7-2014... [redacted] brough Avalanche back in with XXXXX miles on it. Check Engine for oil leak, oil pressure. Crossroads found no leaks, topped vehicle off 1.5 quarts low. Then drove the vehicle 188 miles with no oil leaks, oil pressure was compatible with GM specs. Miles XXXXX when customer picked the vehicle up. Almost 8 months later on 9-29-2014 [redacted] brings Avalnche in with XXXXXX miles on it stating has dead piston and was in before with low oil pressure. Crossroads tech verified vehicle has cylinder #7 lifter collapsed do to poor maitenance found deposited in valve cover known as sludge. [redacted] got with [redacted] the next business day and covered the issue. [redacted] wasn't happy and stated he wanted it warrantied. [redacted] came in and [redacted] got [redacted] with [redacted] our Service Director at ***'s request and they had a meeting. [redacted] got with our GM Rep to try and get vehicled handled under warranty. Our GM rep NOT CROSSROADS AT ALL OFFERED A [redacted] TRADE IN ALLOWANCE. Our rep even looked at the Avalanche himself. [redacted] called [redacted] and what GM had offered. [redacted] didn't like that. [redacted] offered 30% discounts on parts and labor. [redacted] didn't like that either. On XX-X-XX I spoke with [redacted] on the phone and had [redacted] my Service Director present. [redacted] insisted he wanted the vehicle handled under warranty or basically Crossroads to warranty the vehicle. [redacted] had been talking to GM service side for customers and had some info he related that didn't sound correct. I told [redacted] what our rep had offered and that GM wasn't going to warranty it. I exsplained how warranty work works. [redacted] wanted our reps info. We aren't supposed to give out the dealer side reps info. Thats why the customer has customer service side to call or follow the owners manuel. I can see [redacted] side on what he is supposedly being told by a GM service rep or another dealer. However without having the facts we have and know it could look weird. I get that. [redacted] wanted a phone conference with the service lady he had been speaking with, [redacted] our rep, and myself. [redacted] called our rep and left a message for him and had on 10-10-14. Now take in mind this vehicle has sat here and [redacted] knows whats wrong with it and our stance and GM's. XX-XX-XX I get an email wanting to know about the meeting from ***. As of yet we have not heard back from our rep. I send an email stating that and we are at his MERCY AT GETTING BACK WITH US, NEVER HAVE WE SPOKEN TO HIM ABOUT THE MEETING YET! At 3:32 on XX-XX-XX I sent an email to [redacted] that our rep will come in and meet the week of the 20th next week. I asked what day would work for the ***'s and our rep requested all maintenance records on the vehicle from 50k miles to present. The reason for this is GM has zero history of any work done on the vehicle. This is soley GM requesting this. Next thing I know [redacted] picks his vehicle up drives it knowing it has a bad cylinder and sends me an email with pictures of the dash. On XX-XX-XX we had a meeting with the ***'s. [redacted] , [redacted] my service director at my other store, myself and the ***'s. The ***'s think Crossroads mis diagnoised the vehicle back in February is what I gathered. They want it covered under warranty or Crossroads to warranty it. GM handles the warranty not Crossroads. The Longs in my opinion from the meeting have gotten info from 3 other dealers telling them it can be handled under warranty. Same thing we would probably say if we didn't have all the facts in front of us, however we would hopefully state that to the customer. GM has to pay the claim or the customer will. Now the reason the vehicle set here was soley on the ***'s decision not ours. It also is puzzling that [redacted] drove the vehicle knowing it had a bad lifter. XX-XX-XXXX we got the ***'s to confirm a time to meet with our GM rep on XX-XX-XX at 11:00 am and to bring all maintenace records. I sent an email on the eve of XX-XX-XXXX asking the Longs if 11:00 am would work and what our rep requested. Crossroads is willing to help the ***'s as we shown with a 30% discount. We can't make GM warranty something. We can't base warranty off customers opinion. Crossroads followed GM's specs and protocal. Now in closing the vehicle was not here going on a month! Also [redacted] was informed within 72 hours of all the details. It sat here waiting for an okay to perform work. I have a chain of emails and documents I can provide if needed. Please close the case. Thanks, [redacted] Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 7, 2014/10/17) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) There are a number of inconsistencies I will address in this response. First, I didn't say not to diagnose my vehicle. When it went in for a warranty repair, I had mentioned the oil pressure issue and that I was losing oil, but it wasn't leaking. I explained I did not want to be charged for something under warranty. We set an appointment a couple weeks later. Here is where the dealer failed to recognize a fatal problem in the engine. Yesterday 10/16/14 I sat down with a service manager of a different GM dealership. I had all documents from Crossroads. The service manager agreed that a full diagnostic was not completed on my engine. If you do an internet search on Chevy/GM 5.3 oil consumption, oil pressure, lifter, cam shaft issue" you will literally have page after page of documentation of what an epidemic issue this has become in the XXXX-XXXX engines for Chevy, usually linked to AFM. Crossroads clearly knew by Spring of 2014 the 1000s of documented cases of this issues. The manager even printed out GM memos regarding the steps involved when the exact symptoms my truck was showing are present. GM specifically addressed the oil consumption and oil pressure issues in the AFM 5.3 engines. Crossroads knew this at the time and made zero mention. I only found all this after meeting with Mr. [redacted] and [redacted] at Crossroads on 10/15/14. It took me less than two minutes after I left the meeting being accused of not performing proper maintenance on my truck and having "sludge" in the engine (which I found out from the other GM dealership the cause of in that motor by design). In this meeting we were cursed at and told that issues we had heard in the past at that dealerships service department weren't the manager's problem because and I quote "I inherited this ***". I can produce record of that being said. Plus, [redacted] and his other service manager were in the office so they could attest to the profanity. I was told that my engine had a bunch of sludge in it and that it was running in spec during the tests. Crossroads however could not produce what the "specs" were. GM bulletin to service depts clearly states that there are to be certain tests conducted to properly diagnose rings, piston, lifter and Camshaft issues. They have zero record of doing any of those tests. They have no record that my truck was running at spec PSI. It was running highway speeds at 20. GM spec for that is 30-35. A [redacted] way out of spec. [redacted] stated he hooked up the truck and it read out correct spec. He did not test the pressure at each cylinder or beyond the sensor. Again, the dealership did not follow GM guidelines to properly diagnose my truck under warranty. Mr. [redacted] asked repeatedly why they wouldn't have just fixed it and turned it over to GM warranty and been paid for it. I responded by asking if they are reimbursed by GM the same rate as they charge customers. He first dodged the question then they came up with a figure saying something was a $6 difference. Again, I have record of this all. There were 5 total in the meeting. As for the 30% discount: Mr. [redacted] has stated he has NO authorization to do the work under warranty. This is the first time I've seen the dealership claim that the 30% off their inflated garage price is from the dealership and not GM. The GM rep [redacted] (senior advisor) instructed me on the phone that it was a customer goodwill certificate given through GM. Again, I am receiving conflicting statements of responsibility. I have a printed chat with [redacted] a GM rep where she says "we do not have the ability to extend warranties on our end. That would be done on a dealership level." There is a constant shift of blame between GM and the dealership for an issue that is well documented. I have hundreds of complaints saved. Mr [redacted] in the meeting came across upset that I had made a BBB complaint, he made reference to it multiple times. He claimed that he never said he was at the mercy of hearing back from the GM rep, which I have in an email. He has since kept me updated on the GM rep status and for that I am appreciative. However, he made it clear in the meeting that he believed we would blame their dealership for something no matter what. He also said that in GM's eyes we have never had service done there we haven't bought a car from them (I own 2 Chevy Avalanches 2003 and 2009 - the 03 I've done all maintenance as well and runs awesome) therefore GM wouldn't be willing to help as much because we don't spend enough with them and probably use Midas or some other "Shade tree mechanic" (first time I'd heard that). Obviously, I feel that the more I dig, the more the dealership did not follow GM protocol in properly diagnosing my truck under warranty. It had clear out of spec oil consumption and the dealership ignored the GM directed procedures to properly diagnose the issue. My last resort to settle this without further intervention is the meeting with the GM rep that was set up by Crossroads on Wednesday of next week. I will follow up after that meeting. Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 12, 2014/10/29) */ On 10-22-14 [redacted] and [redacted] met with [redacted] the GM representative, myself [redacted] ***, [redacted] and [redacted] This meeting had been requested by [redacted] and arranged as mentioned in my previous BBB responce. [redacted] also knew to bring all maintenance documents that GM had requested as mentioned and documented. Those documents where to be all maintanence record from 50k miles to present date. I had told [redacted] in several emails, in this previous reply to BBB its stated, even in person and [redacted] asked what all documents. I specifically said to follow his owners manuel and bring everything he had. The reason for these requested documents is no history of service shows up on the vehicle of the ***'s with GM or any GM dealership. [redacted] said he does all his maintenace himself. He told us in the meeting he don't want to pay GM's inflated prices. During the meeting, [redacted] with GM asked for the documents several times. [redacted] didn't provide them or have them as he'd previously stated. [redacted] said if he was to gather them it would be for his benefit and turn over to his attorney. I can't make [redacted] provide the proper documents that GM requested. His vehicle is out of warranty and I truelly believe if he would have provided the proper maintenance history based of his owner's manual and GM requests then GM would have helped him out and warrantied the vehicle or allowed us to goodwill. Even with the vehicle having the 98k miles on it with the history of the vehicle not showing the proper maintenace GM would have requested these documents based off the facts of nothing ever showing up maintenace wise. This is before any warranty claim could be made or paid. [redacted] verified this. [redacted] even mentioned recipts he has gotten to pass [redacted] GM to warranty claims such as [redacted] etc. The manufactor warranty on the vehicle is backed by GM not the dealer. Crossroads offered the ***'s a 30% discount off parts and labor, even offered the ***'s to take to another dealer that the ***'s keep saying they have been told by those dealers they will warranty the vehicle and we can too and should have. The ***'s also say that Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle. If Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle and it was a warranty issue, GM would warranty the vehicle, but only the defective parts, and GM would want to see maintenance history. Per [redacted] with GM, however [redacted] even said we didn't misdiagnose it. Crossroads told the ***'s to take our estimate to other dealers they felt reputable and anything over our cost we would pay the difference. This issue could have been possible resolved under warranty if the proper doc's would have been provided in my own opinion. The next day I got emails from [redacted] stating he was getting legal, going to the attorney general. I called [redacted] and also emailed [redacted] that his issues are with GM on warranty not Crossroads. With the legal mentioned GM made certain requests. I told [redacted] Crossroads was stepping out and I would not be the middle man any longer on passing [redacted] emails to GM. [redacted] threatend GM, me, [redacted] , and a tech with legal action. Crossroads pulled all our offers off the table after the threat of legal action. Crossroads has tried to accomadate the Longs in every way possible, other than simply giving them a free engine. They simply cannot or will not provide the facts that have been asked of them. It has been almost 8 months and 14k miles since Crossroads last seen the ***'s vehicle. Now all of a sudden it's our fault for not warranting the vehicle??? I believe from the meeting the ***'s have a better understanding from GM standpoint and see Crossroads was stating facts and speaking the truth to them. Crossroads can't make GM or the ***'s budge. We are simply stuck in the middle and catching the blame from the ***'s. Crossroads made great offers to help the Longs as GM stated GM offered [redacted] without seeing any documents and stated without those documents requested GM wasn't moving. I don't understand why [redacted] wouldn't provide them to GM but will a attorney to sue.... Make no sense to me or GM. Please close this case. Thanks, [redacted] ***
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2014/10/15) */
Contact Name and Title: *** ***/Owner
Contact Phone: XXX XXX XXXX
Contact Email: ***@crossroadsjoplin.com
*** *** purchased a vehicle from Crossroads Chevrolet-Cadillac on 01/10/When she purchased the vehicle she wanted
to add leather to her new SparkWe agreed to do it and had her sign a "We Owe"! We set an appointment with her and had the leather ordered*** never came in to get the leather added, so after days we sent the leather backLast week we received a phone call from what we thought was *** ***! After talking to this person for a few minutes and letting her complain about the leather, I asked her to verify some information and she did give me all the info that I askedThe one thing that bothered me about the phone call was that it sounded like a something year old girlI remembered that a younger girl was with *** when she purchased the Spark from us and we just so happen to have a copy of this girls drivers license saved in our systemSo I pulled it up while she was yelling at me about the leatherI asked *** if she would let me talk and it went dead silent, like she knew she got caught trying to pretending to be ***After a few moments of silence, I told *** that she could have *** come up her in person and we would get her handledThen we get a Revdex.com complaintWe have copies of the above mentioned signed documents that I can email to whoever needs themCrossroads was very transparent though out this and did nothing to mislead anyonePlease close this case
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2014/10/16) */
[redacted] brought in his 2009 Avalanche on X-XX-XXXX with XXXXX miles on it. The oil light was on, no oil on dip stick, engine was 2.6 qts low. Customer declined diagnosis and oil change. Crossroads did top of the oil for customer. On 2-7-2014...
[redacted] brough Avalanche back in with XXXXX miles on it. Check Engine for oil leak, oil pressure. Crossroads found no leaks, topped vehicle off 1.5 quarts low. Then drove the vehicle 188 miles with no oil leaks, oil pressure was compatible with GM specs. Miles XXXXX when customer picked the vehicle up. Almost 8 months later on 9-29-2014 [redacted] brings Avalnche in with XXXXXX miles on it stating has dead piston and was in before with low oil pressure. Crossroads tech verified vehicle has cylinder #7 lifter collapsed do to poor maitenance found deposited in valve cover known as sludge. [redacted] got with [redacted] the next business day and covered the issue. [redacted] wasn't happy and stated he wanted it warrantied. [redacted] came in and [redacted] got [redacted] with [redacted] our Service Director at [redacted]'s request and they had a meeting. [redacted] got with our GM Rep to try and get vehicled handled under warranty. Our GM rep NOT CROSSROADS AT ALL OFFERED A [redacted] TRADE IN ALLOWANCE. Our rep even looked at the Avalanche himself. [redacted] called [redacted] and what GM had offered. [redacted] didn't like that. [redacted] offered 30% discounts on parts and labor. [redacted] didn't like that either. On XX-X-XX I spoke with [redacted] on the phone and had [redacted] my Service Director present. [redacted] insisted he wanted the vehicle handled under warranty or basically Crossroads to warranty the vehicle. [redacted] had been talking to GM service side for customers and had some info he related that didn't sound correct. I told [redacted] what our rep had offered and that GM wasn't going to warranty it. I exsplained how warranty work works. [redacted] wanted our reps info. We aren't supposed to give out the dealer side reps info. Thats why the customer has customer service side to call or follow the owners manuel. I can see [redacted] side on what he is supposedly being told by a GM service rep or another dealer. However without having the facts we have and know it could look weird. I get that. [redacted] wanted a phone conference with the service lady he had been speaking with, [redacted] our rep, and myself. [redacted] called our rep and left a message for him and had on 10-10-14. Now take in mind this vehicle has sat here and [redacted] knows whats wrong with it and our stance and GM's. XX-XX-XX I get an email wanting to know about the meeting from [redacted]. As of yet we have not heard back from our rep. I send an email stating that and we are at his MERCY AT GETTING BACK WITH US, NEVER HAVE WE SPOKEN TO HIM ABOUT THE MEETING YET! At 3:32 on XX-XX-XX I sent an email to [redacted] that our rep will come in and meet the week of the 20th next week. I asked what day would work for the [redacted]'s and our rep requested all maintenance records on the vehicle from 50k miles to present. The reason for this is GM has zero history of any work done on the vehicle. This is soley GM requesting this. Next thing I know [redacted] picks his vehicle up drives it knowing it has a bad cylinder and sends me an email with pictures of the dash. On XX-XX-XX we had a meeting with the [redacted]'s. [redacted] my service director at my other store, myself and the [redacted]'s. The [redacted]'s think Crossroads mis diagnoised the vehicle back in February is what I gathered. They want it covered under warranty or Crossroads to warranty it. GM handles the warranty not Crossroads. The Longs in my opinion from the meeting have gotten info from 3 other dealers telling them it can be handled under warranty. Same thing we would probably say if we didn't have all the facts in front of us, however we would hopefully state that to the customer. GM has to pay the claim or the customer will. Now the reason the vehicle set here was soley on the [redacted]'s decision not ours. It also is puzzling that [redacted] drove the vehicle knowing it had a bad lifter. XX-XX-XXXX we got the [redacted]'s to confirm a time to meet with our GM rep on XX-XX-XX at 11:00 am and to bring all maintenace records. I sent an email on the eve of XX-XX-XXXX asking the Longs if 11:00 am would work and what our rep requested. Crossroads is willing to help the [redacted]'s as we shown with a 30% discount. We can't make GM warranty something. We can't base warranty off customers opinion. Crossroads followed GM's specs and protocal. Now in closing the vehicle was not here going on a month! Also [redacted] was informed within 72 hours of all the details. It sat here waiting for an okay to perform work. I have a chain of emails and documents I can provide if needed. Please close the case. Thanks, [redacted]
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2014/10/17) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
There are a number of inconsistencies I will address in this response.
First, I didn't say not to diagnose my vehicle. When it went in for a warranty repair, I had mentioned the oil pressure issue and that I was losing oil, but it wasn't leaking. I explained I did not want to be charged for something under warranty. We set an appointment a couple weeks later. Here is where the dealer failed to recognize a fatal problem in the engine. Yesterday 10/16/14 I sat down with a service manager of a different GM dealership. I had all documents from Crossroads. The service manager agreed that a full diagnostic was not completed on my engine. If you do an internet search on Chevy/GM 5.3 oil consumption, oil pressure, lifter, cam shaft issue" you will literally have page after page of documentation of what an epidemic issue this has become in the XXXX-XXXX engines for Chevy, usually linked to AFM. Crossroads clearly knew by Spring of 2014 the 1000s of documented cases of this issues. The manager even printed out GM memos regarding the steps involved when the exact symptoms my truck was showing are present. GM specifically addressed the oil consumption and oil pressure issues in the AFM 5.3 engines. Crossroads knew this at the time and made zero mention. I only found all this after meeting with Mr. [redacted] and [redacted] at Crossroads on 10/15/14. It took me less than two minutes after I left the meeting being accused of not performing proper maintenance on my truck and having "sludge" in the engine (which I found out from the other GM dealership the cause of in that motor by design). In this meeting we were cursed at and told that issues we had heard in the past at that dealerships service department weren't the manager's problem because and I quote "I inherited this [redacted]". I can produce record of that being said. Plus, [redacted] and his other service manager were in the office so they could attest to the profanity. I was told that my engine had a bunch of sludge in it and that it was running in spec during the tests. Crossroads however could not produce what the "specs" were. GM bulletin to service depts clearly states that there are to be certain tests conducted to properly diagnose rings, piston, lifter and Camshaft issues. They have zero record of doing any of those tests. They have no record that my truck was running at spec PSI. It was running highway speeds at 20. GM spec for that is 30-35. A [redacted] way out of spec. [redacted] stated he hooked up the truck and it read out correct spec. He did not test the pressure at each cylinder or beyond the sensor. Again, the dealership did not follow GM guidelines to properly diagnose my truck under warranty. Mr. [redacted] asked repeatedly why they wouldn't have just fixed it and turned it over to GM warranty and been paid for it. I responded by asking if they are reimbursed by GM the same rate as they charge customers. He first dodged the question then they came up with a figure saying something was a $6 difference. Again, I have record of this all. There were 5 total in the meeting. As for the 30% discount: Mr. [redacted] has stated he has NO authorization to do the work under warranty. This is the first time I've seen the dealership claim that the 30% off their inflated garage price is from the dealership and not GM. The GM rep [redacted] (senior advisor) instructed me on the phone that it was a customer goodwill certificate given through GM. Again, I am receiving conflicting statements of responsibility. I have a printed chat with [redacted] a GM rep where she says "we do not have the ability to extend warranties on our end. That would be done on a dealership level." There is a constant shift of blame between GM and the dealership for an issue that is well documented. I have hundreds of complaints saved.
Mr [redacted] in the meeting came across upset that I had made a Revdex.com complaint, he made reference to it multiple times. He claimed that he never said he was at the mercy of hearing back from the GM rep, which I have in an email. He has since kept me updated on the GM rep status and for that I am appreciative. However, he made it clear in the meeting that he believed we would blame their dealership for something no matter what. He also said that in GM's eyes we have never had service done there we haven't bought a car from them (I own 2 Chevy Avalanches 2003 and 2009 - the 03 I've done all maintenance as well and runs awesome) therefore GM wouldn't be willing to help as much because we don't spend enough with them and probably use Midas or some other "Shade tree mechanic" (first time I'd heard that).
Obviously, I feel that the more I dig, the more the dealership did not follow GM protocol in properly diagnosing my truck under warranty. It had clear out of spec oil consumption and the dealership ignored the GM directed procedures to properly diagnose the issue. My last resort to settle this without further intervention is the meeting with the GM rep that was set up by Crossroads on Wednesday of next week. I will follow up after that meeting.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 12, 2014/10/29) */
On 10-22-14 [redacted] and [redacted] met with [redacted] the GM representative, myself [redacted] and [redacted] This meeting had been requested by [redacted] and arranged as mentioned in my previous Revdex.com responce. [redacted] also knew to bring all maintenance documents that GM had requested as mentioned and documented. Those documents where to be all maintanence record from 50k miles to present date. I had told [redacted] in several emails, in this previous reply to Revdex.com its stated, even in person and [redacted] asked what all documents. I specifically said to follow his owners manuel and bring everything he had. The reason for these requested documents is no history of service shows up on the vehicle of the [redacted]'s with GM or any GM dealership. [redacted] said he does all his maintenace himself. He told us in the meeting he don't want to pay GM's inflated prices. During the meeting, [redacted] with GM asked for the documents several times. [redacted] didn't provide them or have them as he'd previously stated. [redacted] said if he was to gather them it would be for his benefit and turn over to his attorney. I can't make [redacted] provide the proper documents that GM requested. His vehicle is out of warranty and I truelly believe if he would have provided the proper maintenance history based of his owner's manual and GM requests then GM would have helped him out and warrantied the vehicle or allowed us to goodwill. Even with the vehicle having the 98k miles on it with the history of the vehicle not showing the proper maintenace GM would have requested these documents based off the facts of nothing ever showing up maintenace wise. This is before any warranty claim could be made or paid. [redacted] verified this. [redacted] even mentioned recipts he has gotten to pass [redacted] GM to warranty claims such as [redacted] etc. The manufactor warranty on the vehicle is backed by GM not the dealer. Crossroads offered the [redacted]'s a 30% discount off parts and labor, even offered the [redacted]'s to take to another dealer that the [redacted]'s keep saying they have been told by those dealers they will warranty the vehicle and we can too and should have. The [redacted]'s also say that Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle. If Crossroads misdiagnosed the vehicle and it was a warranty issue, GM would warranty the vehicle, but only the defective parts, and GM would want to see maintenance history. Per [redacted] with GM, however [redacted] even said we didn't misdiagnose it. Crossroads told the [redacted]'s to take our estimate to other dealers they felt reputable and anything over our cost we would pay the difference. This issue could have been possible resolved under warranty if the proper doc's would have been provided in my own opinion. The next day I got emails from [redacted] stating he was getting legal, going to the attorney general. I called [redacted] and also emailed [redacted] that his issues are with GM on warranty not Crossroads. With the legal mentioned GM made certain requests. I told [redacted] Crossroads was stepping out and I would not be the middle man any longer on passing [redacted] emails to GM. [redacted] threatend GM, me, [redacted], and a tech with legal action. Crossroads pulled all our offers off the table after the threat of legal action. Crossroads has tried to accomadate the Longs in every way possible, other than simply giving them a free engine. They simply cannot or will not provide the facts that have been asked of them. It has been almost 8 months and 14k miles since Crossroads last seen the [redacted]'s vehicle. Now all of a sudden it's our fault for not warranting the vehicle??? I believe from the meeting the [redacted]'s have a better understanding from GM standpoint and see Crossroads was stating facts and speaking the truth to them. Crossroads can't make GM or the [redacted]'s budge. We are simply stuck in the middle and catching the blame from the [redacted]'s. Crossroads made great offers to help the Longs as GM stated GM offered [redacted] without seeing any documents and stated without those documents requested GM wasn't moving. I don't understand why [redacted] wouldn't provide them to GM but will a attorney to sue.... Make no sense to me or GM. Please close this case. Thanks, [redacted]