Cummins Power Systems

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
I gave them a detailed description of the generator problems and Mr [redacted] suggested this service contract, I followed on his advice. After the fact I realize I did not need the service he offered, he should have referred me to the repair people in the first place. Mr [redacted] sold me a service I did not need, I want my money back.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Customer paid $540.00 + tax.  This was the agreed-upon price for the full maintenance service..  This service typically takes up to 4 hours, including travel time.  Our technician spent 8 hours on this job.  In addition to the maintenance service, he also performed the following:TRAVELED TO SITE.  PERFORMED FULL MAINTENANCE SERVICE.  REPLACED SPARK PLUGS AND AIR FILTER AS WELL. T/S DC POWER ISSUE, GENERATOR BATTERY IS DEAD. INSTALLED JUMP PACK ON GENERATOR BATTERY, NO DC POWER GOING TO TRANSFER SWITCH. FOUND 10A B+ FUSE IS BLOWN ON 2100 CONTROL BOARD. REPLACED FUSE, FUSE BLEW IMMEDIATELY. DISCONNECTED CONTROL BOARD AND BATTERY CHARGER IN TRANSFER SWITCH, REPLACED FUSE. HAVE DC POWER TO TRANSFER SWITCH NOW. RECONNECTED CONTROL BOARD, FUSE DID NOT BLOW. ISSUE IS WITH BATTERY CHARGER, CHARGER IS INOPERABLE AND NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. PUT SET BACK IN AUTO, GENSET STARTS AND RUNS IN AUTO EVEN THOUGH TRANSFER SWITCH IS NOT CALLING. LIFTED WIRING FROM TB1-1 AND TB1-22, CONTACT IN TRANSFER SWITCH WAS CLOSED BUT OPENED ONCE WIRES WERE LIFTED ON BOARD. SUSPECT RELAY WAS STUCK. RECONNECTED REMOTE START WIRING, COULD NOT REPLICATE ISSUE. UNIT ALSO HAS INTERMITTANT 1318 FAULT COMING IN, ENGINE SERVICE REQUIRED. FAULT GENERATES FROM ENGINE EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM, ISSUE IS POSSIBLY CAUSED BY FLUCTUATIONS IN BATTERY VOLTAGE DUE TO DEAD BATTERY/BAD CHARGER, UNIT HAS BEEN SITTING FOR SOME TIME WITH BATTERY COMPLETELY DEAD, WHICH CAN AFFECT HEGO SENSOR. RECOMMEND CORRECTING BATTERY CHARGER ISSUES AND ALLOWING A FEW EXERCISE PERIODS TO GO BY AND MONITOR, WARNING MAY NEED TO BE CLEARED AGAIN. RETURNED TO SHOPThe extra 4 hours he spent should have been billed at our standard rate of $156 per hour = $624, less a 10% discount for contracted customers = $561.60.  However, we did not charge the customer for this extra time.  The work above falls outside of a maintenance contract.  The generator had been sitting, dead, for some time before we were called out to perform maintenance on it.  We are willing to return to the site on a paid call.  No money is due back to the customer, as he received value over and above the amount he paid.

With the contract, we included a checklist of items included in a maintenance service.  The items being requested fall outside of the scope of the maintenance service.  We would be willing to schedule this repair event the next time we are in the area in order to save the customer on travel time and mileage.

Complaint Information: [redacted] brought this truck into our shop. They had installed the engine themselves. They could not get it running. It had many fault codes. There was one ECM bolted to the engine, and another ECM hanging freely, plugged into a wiring harness. Exposed wires. The cooling...

fan was in backwards, there was no coolant in the site glass (low coolant), and there was a blown fuse. We followed our diagnostic process to troubleshoot the faults. We determined the unit needed a fuel pump. Customer declined to have the work done by us. We had stayed in contact with the customer throughout the troubleshooting process. The amount paid was for troubleshooting the many fault codes and the time charged was approved in advance by the customer.

Review: Contracted with supplier to diagnose performance problems and service generator set. Technician said he was "running out of time" and did not finish diagnosing fault #[redacted]. Distributor was not adjusted and display keeps showing a fault warning that says "service engine"Desired Settlement: distributor adjusted and complete service to eliminate fault warning or positively diagnose problem.

Business

Response:

Customer signed for a maintenance service. (Not a repair service). We scheduled a half-day to perform this service. Our technician spent the whole day (four extra hours) because the generator had been offline for weeks. Technician got the generator back online. We did not charge the customer for the extra four hours. A maintenance service is different than a repair event. When the customer called and asked us to return to troubleshoot issues, we presented an estimate. Customer felt the repair should be free. The contract he signed was strictly a maintenance contract, which does not include repair events. Repairs are quoted at a discounted rate for contracted customers. We have not returned because customer is not willing to pay for the repair service.

Consumer

Response:

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:I fully told Mr.[redacted] all the problems I had with the generator, following which HE suggested the maintenance service. Upon signing the maintenance contract I emailed Mr. [redacted] that I expect all issues be resolved with the service. Mr. [redacted] did not respond nor said anything that a repair service may be needed. Mr. [redacted] pushed for a service I did not need and should have referred me to the repair people in the first place. He sold me a service I did not need. Even the maintenance service was not completed because distributor was not adjusted (a routine in every tune up shop) even though the rotor points were cleaned.Time to perform the service was never discussed nor limited to a specific number of hours. Engine displays a fault warning that says: "1318 service engine". It says "service" not "repair". I am expecting Cummins to complete service by adjusting distributor and diagnosing the cause for fault #1318. I am not expecting any repairs.

Sincerely,

Business

Response:

With the contract, we included a checklist of items included in a maintenance service. The items being requested fall outside of the scope of the maintenance service. We would be willing to schedule this repair event the next time we are in the area in order to save the customer on travel time and mileage.

Consumer

Response:

Review: [redacted]

I am rejecting this response because:

I gave them a detailed description of the generator problems and Mr [redacted] suggested this service contract, I followed on his advice. After the fact I realize I did not need the service he offered, he should have referred me to the repair people in the first place. Mr [redacted] sold me a service I did not need, I want my money back.

Sincerely,

Business

Response:

Customer paid $540.00 + tax. This was the agreed-upon price for the full maintenance service.. This service typically takes up to 4 hours, including travel time. Our technician spent 8 hours on this job. In addition to the maintenance service, he also performed the following:TRAVELED TO SITE. PERFORMED FULL MAINTENANCE SERVICE. REPLACED SPARK PLUGS AND AIR FILTER AS WELL. T/S DC POWER ISSUE, GENERATOR BATTERY IS DEAD. INSTALLED JUMP PACK ON GENERATOR BATTERY, NO DC POWER GOING TO TRANSFER SWITCH. FOUND 10A B+ FUSE IS BLOWN ON 2100 CONTROL BOARD. REPLACED FUSE, FUSE BLEW IMMEDIATELY. DISCONNECTED CONTROL BOARD AND BATTERY CHARGER IN TRANSFER SWITCH, REPLACED FUSE. HAVE DC POWER TO TRANSFER SWITCH NOW. RECONNECTED CONTROL BOARD, FUSE DID NOT BLOW. ISSUE IS WITH BATTERY CHARGER, CHARGER IS INOPERABLE AND NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. PUT SET BACK IN AUTO, GENSET STARTS AND RUNS IN AUTO EVEN THOUGH TRANSFER SWITCH IS NOT CALLING. LIFTED WIRING FROM TB1-1 AND TB1-22, CONTACT IN TRANSFER SWITCH WAS CLOSED BUT OPENED ONCE WIRES WERE LIFTED ON BOARD. SUSPECT RELAY WAS STUCK. RECONNECTED REMOTE START WIRING, COULD NOT REPLICATE ISSUE. UNIT ALSO HAS INTERMITTANT 1318 FAULT COMING IN, ENGINE SERVICE REQUIRED. FAULT GENERATES FROM ENGINE EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM, ISSUE IS POSSIBLY CAUSED BY FLUCTUATIONS IN BATTERY VOLTAGE DUE TO DEAD BATTERY/BAD CHARGER, UNIT HAS BEEN SITTING FOR SOME TIME WITH BATTERY COMPLETELY DEAD, WHICH CAN AFFECT HEGO SENSOR. RECOMMEND CORRECTING BATTERY CHARGER ISSUES AND ALLOWING A FEW EXERCISE PERIODS TO GO BY AND MONITOR, WARNING MAY NEED TO BE CLEARED AGAIN. RETURNED TO SHOPThe extra 4 hours he spent should have been billed at our standard rate of $156 per hour = $624, less a 10% discount for contracted customers = $561.60. However, we did not charge the customer for this extra time. The work above falls outside of a maintenance contract. The generator had been sitting, dead, for some time before we were called out to perform maintenance on it. We are willing to return to the site on a paid call. No money is due back to the customer, as he received value over and above the amount he paid.

Review: I [redacted] driver license # CT XXXXXXXXX, took my truck on April, 16th to located at CUMMINS POWER SYSTEMS, LLC ROCKY HILL BRANCH [redacted] CT XXXXXPhone # (XXX)XXX-XXXX with some engine hesitation at high load to have the problem diagnosed, next day I got a call from them saying they would be working on it to make a diagnostic, 2 hours later they call me telling me they need more time to make the diagnostic, they did not have anything on it yet at that time, than at that time I told them that I authorize if you guys take it for a ride, because I knew it would present the problem. A few hours later they call me and told me the problem would be the ECM (Engine Control Module), and would cost 5,300.00 U$. At that point I told them that I could not afford it and would go and get the truck. They said ok but I would need to pay for diagnostic which I understood, but that I would also need to get a towing truck to get it, because the truck wouldnt start anymore, then I told them that it would be impossible, I brought the truck for you guys running, I pay for the diagnostic but I want my truck the way I brought in. I went to a lower and I was told that the procedure would be pay for the bill, pay for the towing, Fix it somewhere else and open a small clam against them. Due to the circumstance, I have an estimate done by other shop to replace the ECM and would cost labor and parts 3,000.00 U$. I went personally to the Cummins dealer and ask them if they could install a remanufactured ECM to bring the cost of the repair down, they redid their figures and came up with an estimate of 3,150.00 U$. I authorized them to do the work. I paid for it and took the truck went to a test drive and the truck was the same way I brought in. I took the truck back to them and after n few days they call me saying now that the problem was the injectors that they took a part and found 5 bad injectors and 2 rocker housing. They replace the parts and I had to pay 4,700.00 U$ more, I had to borrow money from friends and family. Not counting the time that I had to take from working, approximately 2 weeks.If I could shorten the explanation of all this aggravation, I would do it by saying that I have brought the truck running and paid 3,000.00 U$ to have them damage my PC, that obviously was not the problem, not counting time that I lost and aggravation. Not counting that now the Jake brake is not working properly which was when I brought the truck to them, and now when I call them about it, they are treating it as a separate problem (it was working before I brought the truck to them).I have described here above the facts as they happened, if there are any more details that you need to help me in this matter please contact me [redacted] XXXXX(XXX) XXX XXXXEmail [redacted]@gmail.com [redacted]

Order_Number: INVOICE # XXX-XXXXX

Desired Settlement: Money back for unecessaryECM replacement.

Business

Response:

Consumer Response /* (-5, 9, 2013/06/03) */

NO RESPONSE FROM CUMMINS POWER SYSTEMS, YET

Business Response /* (1000, 10, 2013/06/05) */

This truck came in with the complaint of "Low power 8th gear and higher, lower gears ok." We attempted to plug into this truck, but their ECM would not communicate with us. We tried various different computers, we finally removed the ECM and bench-tested it. We tried rom-booting it. Nothing. The ECM has an invalid footprint.

Unfortunately, when an ECM has an invalid footprint, we cannot communicate with it. Therefore, we quoted this customer to replace the ECM. Customer was unhappy with the first estimate, so the operations manager and shop foreman met with him. We agreed to lower the estimate (gave some of the labor at no cost & offered reduced part pricing). He agreed to that estimate. (In order to diagnose the original issue, we needed a working ECM). Once the ECM was replaced, we were able to properly diagnose the problem. We then quoted for repairs to solve the original problem. Quote was accepted and work was performed. We also manually checked the Jakes before giving the unit the "ok".

We believe we have been more than fair with this customer. We offered some labor at no charge and reduced parts pricing. It is unfortunate, but no one would have been able to diagnose this issue with the original ECM. Before the customer left our facility, he did not raise any concerns.