Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/01/09) */
January 9,
Revdex.com
*** *** ***
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case #XXXXXXXX:
To Whom It May Concern,
This letter is our response to the above-referenced caseWe originally installed this fence in August
(see invoice copy #and customer's signed contract #and #3)The fence material does have a 25-year LIMITED warranty from Ozark Timber, the manufacturerThe limited manufacturer warranty specifically states it "warrants to the original purchaser the replacement, free of charge, of any wood fencing component manufactured by Ozark Timer that fails within years from the date of original purchase due to decay or insects" (see warranty #4)We have always explained this limited warranty as covering rot, decay and insects above and below the groundThe manufacturer's limited warranty does NOT cover labor required to remedy a problem and R&C Fence never provided a 25-year warranty for the labor componentActually, the warranty specifically states "in all cases, the purchaser must pay (1) all transportation costs from our plant in StJoe, Arkansas, and (2) all installation costs."
The warranty paperwork was provided to the customer at the original purchase, and we completed the registration card with Ozark Timber on her behalf (see document #5)
The customer called us in June to complain that several posts had rotted at ground levelOur residential salesmen, *** ***, went to her home on 6/22/and provided a quote for ONLY the labor component to replace (3) posts for *** (see quote #6)There was not a charge for the posts that need to be replacedOur minimum labor charge is typically *** for any repair workWe explained to the customer that we no longer carry the Ozark Timber product but we could replace the material with another treated ACQ productWe also provided an option to give her the posts for free so she can replace them herself if she did not want to pay us ***
We did not hear anything from the customer until 12/28/16, when she called at 5:pm (after office hours) and left a three-minute message on our phone about how unhappy she was and that the warranty is supposed to replace her fence for freeShe demanded a free replacement of the fence or she would call the Revdex.com or go to small claims court
*** *** from our office called her back the next morning, 12/29/He explained to her in detail what the manufacturer's warranty specifically covered and even read the warranty to her*** offered to set another appointment to have *** *** meet with her to discuss the warranty and review the situationShe agreed and we set another appointment for January 5,, (see document #7)Before we were able to meet with her again on January 5th, we received this complaint through the Revdex.com
*** has met with the customer and offered to replace the post for the original *** labor-only charge or provide the material onlyThe customer has accepted the material replacement only and will try to replace the posts themselves*** has told them that if they have substantial difficulty replacing the posts, we will still send out a crew to do the work for *** We delivered the posts on Monday, January 9,
Contrary to the customer's statement, we never "blew her off" nor are we refusing to fix itHowever, we will fix it under the terms of the original manufacturer's warranty, which was provided to her with the original purchaseThe material will be replaced for free, but we NEVER guaranteed or warranted the labor for years
We believe this issue is resolved since we have provided the material to the customer as requestedWe do not intend to take any other action, unless the customer contacts us further
If you have any questions, please contact me at XXX-XXX-XXXX
Thank you
*** ** ***
Vice President
R&C Fence, Inc
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/08/25) */
August 24, 2017
Revdex.com
4011 Parnell Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46805
RE: Case #XXXXXXXX
To Whom It May Concern,
This letter is our response to the above-referenced case. We originally installed this fence in May...
2009. The fence material originally came with a Lifetime warranty from Royal Outdoor Products, the manufacturer. The manufacturer's warranty would have covered any labor associated with material issues, if a need existed to replace defective material. Unfortunately, Royal is no longer in business and any manufacturer's warranty is null and void. R&C Fence has NEVER provided a Lifetime warranty for the labor component on any fence installation. We have always provided a one-year material and labor warranty from the date of initial installation. Both of the complaints for this case do not involve material defects and replacement of material is not necessary.
Our residential fence salesman met with the customer to address his two complaints: 1) the fence gate does not open well and 2) a vertical slat (fence board) is not properly placed in the pre-cut hole along the horizontal rail. As it relates to 1), the gate needs adjusting and it will require one of our crews to take the gate off the hinges, take the entire gate apart, trim some of the width to allow it to fit better within the gate posts, put the gate back together again, and then rehang it. The fence is 8 years old and the posts have moved slightly over the years due to the freezing and thawing of the ground with weather changes. Due to the slight shifting of the posts, the space it too tight for the gate now. The movement of the ground will affect the fit of a gate over time. We have NEVER warranted repairs beyond one-year and will need to charge for the work. Our residential salesman provided a labor-only quote of [redacted] for the repairs. Our normal minimum labor charge is [redacted]
As it relates to issue 2), when this particular panel was installed 8 years ago, the panel had to be cut down to a smaller size to fit the space. This particular fence style was purchased in panels from the manufacturer and we did not build the panels onsite. When the panel was cut, it was right along the pre-cut hole for the vertical fence board. So, the pre-cut hole is slightly exposed from outside of the post. There was no way to avoid this issue due to the size needed for the panel to fit in the spot. It appears our crew put a screw into the rail to hold it in place and the customer stated he did not install the screw. With the screw holding the rail in place, it is impossible for the rail to come out of the post. The salesman demonstrated to the customer that the rail is completely secured by trying to pull it out of place. It did not move. This rail has been secure since the original install date. There is no way to remedy this issue and, quite frankly, no need to try to change it because the fence is solid and has caused absolutely no problems with the panel or the post. More importantly, if it was such a concern for the customer, why did he wait 8 years to call and ask about it?
Both of these situations do not require any new material - so the manufacturer's warranty is not a consideration. Since manufacturer is no longer in business, we would have honored the original manufacturer's warranty if material was necessary for replacement or for repairs. Our salesman met with the customer and explained both of these issues to him when he provided the quote for $300 for the repairs.
If you have any questions, please contact me at XXX-XXX-XXXX.
Thank you
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2017/08/25) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I will respond to the 2 issues. in issue number 1, if the ground shifting caused the gate problem, why has the fencing not shifted in other parts? we had over 400 feet of vinyl fencing installed at a cost of over [redacted] dollars. It seems we are just out of luck on our lifetime wzrranty. It was never explained to us that any difficulty with our fence would not be covered under our lifetime warrant. We were told, just call us and we will take care of you. On issue number 2, it seems they admit that the fence was never installed in its proper condition. We were never told that we might have to have a panel cut down and that one slat would not be installed it its proper hole in the center of said panel. We were never informed that a screw was put in to hold the fence in place and that cosmetically the fence we paid for didnt need to be in its proper state. I realize that they are refusing to do the right thing. We didnt contact them sooner because we thought that whenever we called them, we would be taken care of to our satisfaction. I would urge any further customers of R and C fence have their warranty in print and completely explained. We remain open to dropping our complaint should R and C offer to fix both problem areas at no charge. Otherwise, I guess we continue to disagree with their solution to our problems.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 12, 2017/09/08) */
We stand by our original response - we have offered to fix the gate for almost 1/2 of our minimum labor charge since they are a prior customer. The area with the cut down panel has no resolution that will satisfy and, honestly, doesn't need to be fixed. It is truly a minor cosmetic issue. The fence is completely stable and solid in the installation. Even if the customer asked to replace the panel, it would still have to be cut down in order to fit that space (as with the original installation) and the material is no longer available since the manufacturer went out of business. Our current vinyl product does not match that material from 8 years ago. The original manufacturer's warranty that they continue to reference covered material defects and any labor associated with work needed to fix material-related problems. We try our absolute best to work with customers to resolve problems; however, we feel it is unreasonable to expect gate repairs for free when the fence was installed 8 years ago.
Thank you
R&C Fence
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/01/09) */
January 9,
Revdex.com
*** *** ***
Fort Wayne, IN XXXXX
RE: Case #XXXXXXXX:
To Whom It May Concern,
This letter is our response to the above-referenced caseWe originally installed this fence in August
(see invoice copy #and customer's signed contract #and #3)The fence material does have a 25-year LIMITED warranty from Ozark Timber, the manufacturerThe limited manufacturer warranty specifically states it "warrants to the original purchaser the replacement, free of charge, of any wood fencing component manufactured by Ozark Timer that fails within years from the date of original purchase due to decay or insects" (see warranty #4)We have always explained this limited warranty as covering rot, decay and insects above and below the groundThe manufacturer's limited warranty does NOT cover labor required to remedy a problem and R&C Fence never provided a 25-year warranty for the labor componentActually, the warranty specifically states "in all cases, the purchaser must pay (1) all transportation costs from our plant in StJoe, Arkansas, and (2) all installation costs."
The warranty paperwork was provided to the customer at the original purchase, and we completed the registration card with Ozark Timber on her behalf (see document #5)
The customer called us in June to complain that several posts had rotted at ground levelOur residential salesmen, *** ***, went to her home on 6/22/and provided a quote for ONLY the labor component to replace (3) posts for *** (see quote #6)There was not a charge for the posts that need to be replacedOur minimum labor charge is typically *** for any repair workWe explained to the customer that we no longer carry the Ozark Timber product but we could replace the material with another treated ACQ productWe also provided an option to give her the posts for free so she can replace them herself if she did not want to pay us ***
We did not hear anything from the customer until 12/28/16, when she called at 5:pm (after office hours) and left a three-minute message on our phone about how unhappy she was and that the warranty is supposed to replace her fence for freeShe demanded a free replacement of the fence or she would call the Revdex.com or go to small claims court
*** *** from our office called her back the next morning, 12/29/He explained to her in detail what the manufacturer's warranty specifically covered and even read the warranty to her*** offered to set another appointment to have *** *** meet with her to discuss the warranty and review the situationShe agreed and we set another appointment for January 5,, (see document #7)Before we were able to meet with her again on January 5th, we received this complaint through the Revdex.com
*** has met with the customer and offered to replace the post for the original *** labor-only charge or provide the material onlyThe customer has accepted the material replacement only and will try to replace the posts themselves*** has told them that if they have substantial difficulty replacing the posts, we will still send out a crew to do the work for *** We delivered the posts on Monday, January 9,
Contrary to the customer's statement, we never "blew her off" nor are we refusing to fix itHowever, we will fix it under the terms of the original manufacturer's warranty, which was provided to her with the original purchaseThe material will be replaced for free, but we NEVER guaranteed or warranted the labor for years
We believe this issue is resolved since we have provided the material to the customer as requestedWe do not intend to take any other action, unless the customer contacts us further
If you have any questions, please contact me at XXX-XXX-XXXX
Thank you
*** ** ***
Vice President
R&C Fence, Inc
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2017/08/25) */
August 24, 2017
Revdex.com
4011 Parnell Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46805
RE: Case #XXXXXXXX
To Whom It May Concern,
This letter is our response to the above-referenced case. We originally installed this fence in May...
2009. The fence material originally came with a Lifetime warranty from Royal Outdoor Products, the manufacturer. The manufacturer's warranty would have covered any labor associated with material issues, if a need existed to replace defective material. Unfortunately, Royal is no longer in business and any manufacturer's warranty is null and void. R&C Fence has NEVER provided a Lifetime warranty for the labor component on any fence installation. We have always provided a one-year material and labor warranty from the date of initial installation. Both of the complaints for this case do not involve material defects and replacement of material is not necessary.
Our residential fence salesman met with the customer to address his two complaints: 1) the fence gate does not open well and 2) a vertical slat (fence board) is not properly placed in the pre-cut hole along the horizontal rail. As it relates to 1), the gate needs adjusting and it will require one of our crews to take the gate off the hinges, take the entire gate apart, trim some of the width to allow it to fit better within the gate posts, put the gate back together again, and then rehang it. The fence is 8 years old and the posts have moved slightly over the years due to the freezing and thawing of the ground with weather changes. Due to the slight shifting of the posts, the space it too tight for the gate now. The movement of the ground will affect the fit of a gate over time. We have NEVER warranted repairs beyond one-year and will need to charge for the work. Our residential salesman provided a labor-only quote of [redacted] for the repairs. Our normal minimum labor charge is [redacted]
As it relates to issue 2), when this particular panel was installed 8 years ago, the panel had to be cut down to a smaller size to fit the space. This particular fence style was purchased in panels from the manufacturer and we did not build the panels onsite. When the panel was cut, it was right along the pre-cut hole for the vertical fence board. So, the pre-cut hole is slightly exposed from outside of the post. There was no way to avoid this issue due to the size needed for the panel to fit in the spot. It appears our crew put a screw into the rail to hold it in place and the customer stated he did not install the screw. With the screw holding the rail in place, it is impossible for the rail to come out of the post. The salesman demonstrated to the customer that the rail is completely secured by trying to pull it out of place. It did not move. This rail has been secure since the original install date. There is no way to remedy this issue and, quite frankly, no need to try to change it because the fence is solid and has caused absolutely no problems with the panel or the post. More importantly, if it was such a concern for the customer, why did he wait 8 years to call and ask about it?
Both of these situations do not require any new material - so the manufacturer's warranty is not a consideration. Since manufacturer is no longer in business, we would have honored the original manufacturer's warranty if material was necessary for replacement or for repairs. Our salesman met with the customer and explained both of these issues to him when he provided the quote for $300 for the repairs.
If you have any questions, please contact me at XXX-XXX-XXXX.
Thank you
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2017/08/25) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I will respond to the 2 issues. in issue number 1, if the ground shifting caused the gate problem, why has the fencing not shifted in other parts? we had over 400 feet of vinyl fencing installed at a cost of over [redacted] dollars. It seems we are just out of luck on our lifetime wzrranty. It was never explained to us that any difficulty with our fence would not be covered under our lifetime warrant. We were told, just call us and we will take care of you. On issue number 2, it seems they admit that the fence was never installed in its proper condition. We were never told that we might have to have a panel cut down and that one slat would not be installed it its proper hole in the center of said panel. We were never informed that a screw was put in to hold the fence in place and that cosmetically the fence we paid for didnt need to be in its proper state. I realize that they are refusing to do the right thing. We didnt contact them sooner because we thought that whenever we called them, we would be taken care of to our satisfaction. I would urge any further customers of R and C fence have their warranty in print and completely explained. We remain open to dropping our complaint should R and C offer to fix both problem areas at no charge. Otherwise, I guess we continue to disagree with their solution to our problems.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 12, 2017/09/08) */
We stand by our original response - we have offered to fix the gate for almost 1/2 of our minimum labor charge since they are a prior customer. The area with the cut down panel has no resolution that will satisfy and, honestly, doesn't need to be fixed. It is truly a minor cosmetic issue. The fence is completely stable and solid in the installation. Even if the customer asked to replace the panel, it would still have to be cut down in order to fit that space (as with the original installation) and the material is no longer available since the manufacturer went out of business. Our current vinyl product does not match that material from 8 years ago. The original manufacturer's warranty that they continue to reference covered material defects and any labor associated with work needed to fix material-related problems. We try our absolute best to work with customers to resolve problems; however, we feel it is unreasonable to expect gate repairs for free when the fence was installed 8 years ago.
Thank you
R&C Fence