I *** *** the owner of Custom Floors am addressing this cover letter to both *** *** at the Revdex.com ID #*** and *** ***
at the Indiana Attorney Office file No***In regards to the complaints filed by *** *** I am attaching a response that Custom Floors prepared in response to the same complaint filed to *** ***Custom Floors' response is very factual illustrating the actual problem is high relative humidity in ***'s home's crawl spaceCustom Floors' belief is that ***'s complaint includes less that whole truthsCustom Floors has consulted counsel and together we are considering a liable suitIt is sad that in business many times the more you try to help people the more they turn on youPlease let me know if there is anything else I am supposed to doThis is *** *** the owner of Custom FloorsThis is my first experience at this type of a response with *** ***Custom Floors agrees that the *** have spent a good amount of money with us on several projects in their homeWe appreciate their business and agree it is an unfortunate situation for all parties and have expressed that multiple times to ***Custom Floors response is factualThe contract date is May The wood was delivered on May The install began on May Acclamation is the process of allowing wood to be exposed to the environment it will be installed in prior to installationThe purpose is to allow the moisture content of the subfloor and the wood to be installed to achieve percentages with in manufacturer and industry standardsWe test with a moisture meter the day of installations to determine all products fall within recommended standardsThe subfloor was and the wood was We proceededCustom Floors to the best of my knowledge or any other flooring store in the market place has never suggested to a customer that acclamation requires two weeks*** was very concerned and about the different floor heights of different types of floor coverings at the transitions, tile and wood, to the extent that the *** spent extra money to have a layer of plywood installed under the new wood floorAt the request of the *** expressing their unhappiness *** the salesperson and myself *** *** the owner went to their home on June After a short period of time of looking at a hump in the entry and looking at the two doorway transitions that on my hands and knees I could not see what the problem was *** became emotionalHer emotion accelerated to a point not being possible to have a factual business transaction conversationI tried to discuss choices of approaches to the entry hump and suggested they talk it over and let us know what they would ask us to doWe leftCustom Floors learned of the cupping issue July *** and Susan the manufacture sales rep went to the home July A claim with the manufacture was filedAn inspection was done on July The manufacture claim was deniedCupping is not a manufacture related issueCupping is due to moisture or relative humidityNo hardwood manufacture warrants against moisture related issuesIt is the physics of nature for wood to react to moisture changesI had several conversations with *** on the phone and in the store about optionsHe asked me to come out again and inspect his crawl spaceSeptember myself, my field superintendent, and ***s crawl space specialist crawled into ***s crawl space*** stood right outside to listen to the conversation we were all havingI believe he could hear very wellThere was not standing waterHigh relative humidity does not require standing waterGround water releasing water molecules into the air of the crawl space being absorbed into the exposed subfloor up to the hardwood installation is the physics of cuppingThe relative humidity readings were between and percent which is almost twice the industry recommended levels and in combination of the temperature in the crawl space the environment was right at the dew point where water vapor condenses to waterAll parties in the crawl space read the meterUpon exit of the crawl space all parties including *** discussed the situationI had a copy of the inspection report with me and read it to allI believe *** now has his own copyInstalling another wood floor would cup again because the problem of moisture still existsA tile floor does not expand and contract with moisture changesI left believing *** was contracting the crawl space specialist to seal the area and then create conditioning of the space through a supply and return line into the space from the HVAC to reduce the relative humidity to acceptable levels and see if the hardwood floor showed signs of improvementI suggested he contact me after thisI believe *** to be a smart man in a difficult position*** has shared with me on multiple occasions that he is trying to be a good husband and make his wife happyHe has also shared that he and *** from the beginning have disagreed that wood should be in the hall and bedroom and he won thatThese may be facts also and challenges for *** but don't change the facts of the environment the wood has been installed in that is the physical problem
*** *** owner of Custom Floors
[redacted] and the Revdex.com
A resolution has been offered the last time I was at your house and crawled in your crawl space and the resolution remains the same. Resolve the moisture issues in the crawl space and see if the cupping in the hardwood improves. The cupping could dramatically improve. If there is no improvement it is likely the moisture problem is still there. The crawl space needs to be sealed and conditioned by a supply and return vent from the HVAC until the relative humidity returns to within recommended levels.
I do agree with your statement that when I crawled into the crawl space that the moisture readings were high. I also agree with you that the moisture readings were not consistent with the condition of the home at the time of installation of the floor. That is what I have been saying this whole time that the increased moisture levels in your home is what is causing the wood floors to cup. Your crawl space specialist had no equipment to measure moisture levels which make any conclusion on his part nonfactual. The time I spent with him in your crawl space showing him my readings I believe helped him understand that moisture can be present without the visual presence of water or mold. The floor was installed in May and Indianapolis has had one of the wettest summers on record. Moisture induced hardwood floor issues are not a manufacture or installation warranted problem.
Custom Floors has tried to remain compassionate to your unfortunate situation. [redacted] you asked about replacing the wood with ceramic and carpet. Custom Floors offered to talk about a discount to try and help. It is hard to remain compassionate when you continue to sling mud at Custom Floors in an inappropriate and less than factual way. The real problem is not Custom Floors.
[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.No resolution has been offered. Once theinspection report was available, We sat down with [redacted] during which heexplained that we have a moisture problem. We were not provided a copy of theinspection report at that time. We told [redacted] that the moisture problem wouldbe investigated. We contacted a crawl space specialist who came to ourhome and spent two hours inspecting my crawl. The crawl space specialiststated, "There is a lot we can do for you, but you don't have a moistureproblem - you don't even have mold." We contracted the crawl spacespecialist to do the work that was discussed which focused on insulating vents.We called [redacted] and explained the finding - [redacted] said he would come see forhimself. We asked him to bring a copies of the original moisture readings andthe inspection report. [redacted] came to our home 9/25/14 did not bring themoisture readings or the inspection report - nor did he read them aloud for allto hear. We had to contact Shaw and ask for a copy of the inspection report.Shaw then contacted Custom Floors and asked them to send a copy to us. Wereceived the inspection report 10/21/14. [redacted] has said to us on more than oneoccasion, "I'm not gonna throw my checkbook at a problem that isn'tmine." In his account of his visit to our crawl, he says that he is surethat we could hear the conversation in the crawl space between the specialistand himself. He is correct. We did hear most of the conversation. We also heardit explained that the crawl space specialist had removed the existing vaporbarrier before starting work on the vents to protect the workers from unseendebris. The crawl space specialist also explained the the moisture contentwould be higher in the crawl because of this fact. Therefore the readings doneby [redacted] when he was here may have been high, as expected and not consistentwith the condition of the home at the time of installation of the floors. Whatis relevant are the crawl space moisture readings and inspection done prior toinstallation but Custom Floors has determined that they were never done (per aconversation with our sales person, Custom Floors Salesperson on 10/23/14).[redacted] is right, we are not wood floor experts. We paid experts to do an expertjob. IF there is truly a moisture problem in our crawl, Custom Floors had aresponsibility to ensure a suitable environment prior to installing the wood.Additionally, Shaw recommends "Take readings of the subfloor - minimum of20 readings per 1000 sq ft and average the results. ... Failure to test forproper moisture content of the wood flooring and subfloor can result in cuppingand/or other problems related to or associated with moisture ..." [redacted]has not shown us the moisture readings but it is our understanding that theexisting subfloor and the finished Shaw floor had moisture readings conductedand were within specs. Per the conversation on 10/23/14 with our sales personthere were no moisture readings conducted on the new underlayment supplied andinstalled by Custom Floors (these exist under all of our installed finishedShaw wood floors). It is clear that the moisture issues are the responsibilityof Custom Floors whether in their failure to ensure proper environment orfailure to conduct moisture readings on the new underlayment. Custom Floors isresponsible for the cupping of the finished Shaw wood flooring. We shouldn'thave to seek out Custom Floors Representatives after they are aware of theissue. They should be actively trying to fix this problem. It is myunderstanding that Custom Floors guarantees their work for up to a full year.Custom Floors needs to make this situation right either in replacing the flooror refunding our money.Regards,[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.We have been nothing but factual, patient,cooperative, understanding, and respectful to Custom Floors during this entireordeal. However, we have been met with resistance, unresponsiveness,disinterest in finding the cause of our damaged floors, an unwillingness totake any responsibility for the damaged floors, and no offer of assistance inreplacing the damaged floors. We are not at fault for the damage to ourhardwood floors. Custom Floors is completely responsible for the damage to ourhardwood floors. Shaw outlines specific guidelines for the installer (CustomFloors) that should be met before the installation of hardwood floors to ensurea suitable environment, those include: an inspection of the crawl space &moisture content reading of the subfloor. NEITHER OF THESE GUIDELINES WERE MET.On October 23, 2014 we were informed that Custom Floors failed to inspect ourcrawl space prior to installation & they failed to conduct moisturereadings on the new subfloor / underlayment provided and installed by CustomFloors. (The existing subfloor and the finished floors were both checked formoisture content and met guidelines - however, the new subfloor / underlaymentwhich is sandwiched between these two layers throughout the installation wasnever checked for moisture content). [redacted] claims that our crawl space is moistand caused the damage to our hardwood floors, however his claim has two bigholes: we can find no guidelines for a recommended moisture content of a crawlspace for installation of hardwood floors & the moisture content of thecrawl space was not checked before installation. Our crawl space is not wet pera crawl space specialist & per the independent wood floor inspector. Ourcrawl space is not to blame for the damaged floors. Shaw has inspected theirproduct and they are not to blame for the damaged floors. Custom Floorsinstalled a wet subfloor / underlayment which resulted in the cupping, gapping,buckling, splintering, splitting, and all other damage to our hardwood floors.We have tried to ask Custom Floors to replace our damaged floors but theyrefuse, instead we were provided a quote for over $11,000 (see attached). Theonly form of resolution Custom Floors has offered is to wait and see: onSeptember 25th, 2014 we were asked to wait an additional 30 days to see if thehardwood floors would correct themselves. On October 23, 2014 we contactedCustom Floors to inform them that the floors remained unchanged / still damaged(pictures attached) but were met with resistance, personal attacks, and nooffer to move toward a resolution. It was at this point we had no option but tocontact consumer agencies for assistance. Custom Floors has continued to beresistant in this process and is continuing to attack us personally. How wearrived to the decision of our floors is completely irrelevant to thiscomplaint. It is distasteful and unprofessional to publish our private decisionmaking details for the public to view. No matter the angle - Custom Floors isresponsible for the damaged floors. Custom Floors did not do their duediligence to ensure a proper environment, they installed a wet product, andthey are not standing by the 1 year guarantee. Custom Floors needs to provide afull refund. Regards,[redacted]
I *** *** the owner of Custom Floors am addressing this cover letter to both *** *** at the Revdex.com ID #*** and *** ***
at the Indiana Attorney Office file No***In regards to the complaints filed by *** *** I am attaching a response that Custom Floors prepared in response to the same complaint filed to *** ***Custom Floors' response is very factual illustrating the actual problem is high relative humidity in ***'s home's crawl spaceCustom Floors' belief is that ***'s complaint includes less that whole truthsCustom Floors has consulted counsel and together we are considering a liable suitIt is sad that in business many times the more you try to help people the more they turn on youPlease let me know if there is anything else I am supposed to doThis is *** *** the owner of Custom FloorsThis is my first experience at this type of a response with *** ***Custom Floors agrees that the *** have spent a good amount of money with us on several projects in their homeWe appreciate their business and agree it is an unfortunate situation for all parties and have expressed that multiple times to ***Custom Floors response is factualThe contract date is May The wood was delivered on May The install began on May Acclamation is the process of allowing wood to be exposed to the environment it will be installed in prior to installationThe purpose is to allow the moisture content of the subfloor and the wood to be installed to achieve percentages with in manufacturer and industry standardsWe test with a moisture meter the day of installations to determine all products fall within recommended standardsThe subfloor was and the wood was We proceededCustom Floors to the best of my knowledge or any other flooring store in the market place has never suggested to a customer that acclamation requires two weeks*** was very concerned and about the different floor heights of different types of floor coverings at the transitions, tile and wood, to the extent that the *** spent extra money to have a layer of plywood installed under the new wood floorAt the request of the *** expressing their unhappiness *** the salesperson and myself *** *** the owner went to their home on June After a short period of time of looking at a hump in the entry and looking at the two doorway transitions that on my hands and knees I could not see what the problem was *** became emotionalHer emotion accelerated to a point not being possible to have a factual business transaction conversationI tried to discuss choices of approaches to the entry hump and suggested they talk it over and let us know what they would ask us to doWe leftCustom Floors learned of the cupping issue July *** and Susan the manufacture sales rep went to the home July A claim with the manufacture was filedAn inspection was done on July The manufacture claim was deniedCupping is not a manufacture related issueCupping is due to moisture or relative humidityNo hardwood manufacture warrants against moisture related issuesIt is the physics of nature for wood to react to moisture changesI had several conversations with *** on the phone and in the store about optionsHe asked me to come out again and inspect his crawl spaceSeptember myself, my field superintendent, and ***s crawl space specialist crawled into ***s crawl space*** stood right outside to listen to the conversation we were all havingI believe he could hear very wellThere was not standing waterHigh relative humidity does not require standing waterGround water releasing water molecules into the air of the crawl space being absorbed into the exposed subfloor up to the hardwood installation is the physics of cuppingThe relative humidity readings were between and percent which is almost twice the industry recommended levels and in combination of the temperature in the crawl space the environment was right at the dew point where water vapor condenses to waterAll parties in the crawl space read the meterUpon exit of the crawl space all parties including *** discussed the situationI had a copy of the inspection report with me and read it to allI believe *** now has his own copyInstalling another wood floor would cup again because the problem of moisture still existsA tile floor does not expand and contract with moisture changesI left believing *** was contracting the crawl space specialist to seal the area and then create conditioning of the space through a supply and return line into the space from the HVAC to reduce the relative humidity to acceptable levels and see if the hardwood floor showed signs of improvementI suggested he contact me after thisI believe *** to be a smart man in a difficult position*** has shared with me on multiple occasions that he is trying to be a good husband and make his wife happyHe has also shared that he and *** from the beginning have disagreed that wood should be in the hall and bedroom and he won thatThese may be facts also and challenges for *** but don't change the facts of the environment the wood has been installed in that is the physical problem
*** *** owner of Custom Floors
[redacted] and the Revdex.com
A resolution has been offered the last time I was at your house and crawled in your crawl space and the resolution remains the same. Resolve the moisture issues in the crawl space and see if the cupping in the hardwood improves. The cupping could dramatically improve. If there is no improvement it is likely the moisture problem is still there. The crawl space needs to be sealed and conditioned by a supply and return vent from the HVAC until the relative humidity returns to within recommended levels.
I do agree with your statement that when I crawled into the crawl space that the moisture readings were high. I also agree with you that the moisture readings were not consistent with the condition of the home at the time of installation of the floor. That is what I have been saying this whole time that the increased moisture levels in your home is what is causing the wood floors to cup. Your crawl space specialist had no equipment to measure moisture levels which make any conclusion on his part nonfactual. The time I spent with him in your crawl space showing him my readings I believe helped him understand that moisture can be present without the visual presence of water or mold. The floor was installed in May and Indianapolis has had one of the wettest summers on record. Moisture induced hardwood floor issues are not a manufacture or installation warranted problem.
Custom Floors has tried to remain compassionate to your unfortunate situation. [redacted] you asked about replacing the wood with ceramic and carpet. Custom Floors offered to talk about a discount to try and help. It is hard to remain compassionate when you continue to sling mud at Custom Floors in an inappropriate and less than factual way. The real problem is not Custom Floors.
[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.No resolution has been offered. Once theinspection report was available, We sat down with [redacted] during which heexplained that we have a moisture problem. We were not provided a copy of theinspection report at that time. We told [redacted] that the moisture problem wouldbe investigated. We contacted a crawl space specialist who came to ourhome and spent two hours inspecting my crawl. The crawl space specialiststated, "There is a lot we can do for you, but you don't have a moistureproblem - you don't even have mold." We contracted the crawl spacespecialist to do the work that was discussed which focused on insulating vents.We called [redacted] and explained the finding - [redacted] said he would come see forhimself. We asked him to bring a copies of the original moisture readings andthe inspection report. [redacted] came to our home 9/25/14 did not bring themoisture readings or the inspection report - nor did he read them aloud for allto hear. We had to contact Shaw and ask for a copy of the inspection report.Shaw then contacted Custom Floors and asked them to send a copy to us. Wereceived the inspection report 10/21/14. [redacted] has said to us on more than oneoccasion, "I'm not gonna throw my checkbook at a problem that isn'tmine." In his account of his visit to our crawl, he says that he is surethat we could hear the conversation in the crawl space between the specialistand himself. He is correct. We did hear most of the conversation. We also heardit explained that the crawl space specialist had removed the existing vaporbarrier before starting work on the vents to protect the workers from unseendebris. The crawl space specialist also explained the the moisture contentwould be higher in the crawl because of this fact. Therefore the readings doneby [redacted] when he was here may have been high, as expected and not consistentwith the condition of the home at the time of installation of the floors. Whatis relevant are the crawl space moisture readings and inspection done prior toinstallation but Custom Floors has determined that they were never done (per aconversation with our sales person, Custom Floors Salesperson on 10/23/14).[redacted] is right, we are not wood floor experts. We paid experts to do an expertjob. IF there is truly a moisture problem in our crawl, Custom Floors had aresponsibility to ensure a suitable environment prior to installing the wood.Additionally, Shaw recommends "Take readings of the subfloor - minimum of20 readings per 1000 sq ft and average the results. ... Failure to test forproper moisture content of the wood flooring and subfloor can result in cuppingand/or other problems related to or associated with moisture ..." [redacted]has not shown us the moisture readings but it is our understanding that theexisting subfloor and the finished Shaw floor had moisture readings conductedand were within specs. Per the conversation on 10/23/14 with our sales personthere were no moisture readings conducted on the new underlayment supplied andinstalled by Custom Floors (these exist under all of our installed finishedShaw wood floors). It is clear that the moisture issues are the responsibilityof Custom Floors whether in their failure to ensure proper environment orfailure to conduct moisture readings on the new underlayment. Custom Floors isresponsible for the cupping of the finished Shaw wood flooring. We shouldn'thave to seek out Custom Floors Representatives after they are aware of theissue. They should be actively trying to fix this problem. It is myunderstanding that Custom Floors guarantees their work for up to a full year.Custom Floors needs to make this situation right either in replacing the flooror refunding our money.Regards,[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.We have been nothing but factual, patient,cooperative, understanding, and respectful to Custom Floors during this entireordeal. However, we have been met with resistance, unresponsiveness,disinterest in finding the cause of our damaged floors, an unwillingness totake any responsibility for the damaged floors, and no offer of assistance inreplacing the damaged floors. We are not at fault for the damage to ourhardwood floors. Custom Floors is completely responsible for the damage to ourhardwood floors. Shaw outlines specific guidelines for the installer (CustomFloors) that should be met before the installation of hardwood floors to ensurea suitable environment, those include: an inspection of the crawl space &moisture content reading of the subfloor. NEITHER OF THESE GUIDELINES WERE MET.On October 23, 2014 we were informed that Custom Floors failed to inspect ourcrawl space prior to installation & they failed to conduct moisturereadings on the new subfloor / underlayment provided and installed by CustomFloors. (The existing subfloor and the finished floors were both checked formoisture content and met guidelines - however, the new subfloor / underlaymentwhich is sandwiched between these two layers throughout the installation wasnever checked for moisture content). [redacted] claims that our crawl space is moistand caused the damage to our hardwood floors, however his claim has two bigholes: we can find no guidelines for a recommended moisture content of a crawlspace for installation of hardwood floors & the moisture content of thecrawl space was not checked before installation. Our crawl space is not wet pera crawl space specialist & per the independent wood floor inspector. Ourcrawl space is not to blame for the damaged floors. Shaw has inspected theirproduct and they are not to blame for the damaged floors. Custom Floorsinstalled a wet subfloor / underlayment which resulted in the cupping, gapping,buckling, splintering, splitting, and all other damage to our hardwood floors.We have tried to ask Custom Floors to replace our damaged floors but theyrefuse, instead we were provided a quote for over $11,000 (see attached). Theonly form of resolution Custom Floors has offered is to wait and see: onSeptember 25th, 2014 we were asked to wait an additional 30 days to see if thehardwood floors would correct themselves. On October 23, 2014 we contactedCustom Floors to inform them that the floors remained unchanged / still damaged(pictures attached) but were met with resistance, personal attacks, and nooffer to move toward a resolution. It was at this point we had no option but tocontact consumer agencies for assistance. Custom Floors has continued to beresistant in this process and is continuing to attack us personally. How wearrived to the decision of our floors is completely irrelevant to thiscomplaint. It is distasteful and unprofessional to publish our private decisionmaking details for the public to view. No matter the angle - Custom Floors isresponsible for the damaged floors. Custom Floors did not do their duediligence to ensure a proper environment, they installed a wet product, andthey are not standing by the 1 year guarantee. Custom Floors needs to provide afull refund. Regards,[redacted]