Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2015/06/25) */
In response to this claim and our advertisement:
We feel this AD is transparent and straight forward. We designed this "price point" AD as a result of so many people wanting a idea of what to expect and budget for on our most common remodel...
project. The feedback we have received on this AD has been very positive and appreciative. We have run this AD for almost 6 months without issue.
THE AD - (Copy submitted to Revdex.com for review)
The package is advertised "As low as [redacted] By the wording "As low as" it conveys the message that the price doesn't get any lower than [redacted] The AD then uses bullet points to describe the project this pricing is based on. The last bullet point under the AD is a disclaimer that reads. "Trip charge and other restrictions may apply".
THE RESTRICTIONS AND TRIP CHARGE
This is discussed and explained in detail when someone inquirers on this AD. This package price is based on using specific products, colors, models, finishes, etc. No other discounts or offers apply to this package. The [redacted] is the sale price and not the list price. There will be a trip charge applied in addition t to the package price depending on the distance from our warehouse to the project location.
Mr. & Ms. [redacted]'s PROJECT PRICE - Very straight forward
-The list price of the project was [redacted]
-They live 120 miles one way from our warehouse. There was a [redacted] trip charge applied to the list price to offset travel and lodging expenses incurred by our install crew.
- List Price [redacted] plus Trip charge [redacted] = [redacted]
- Mr. & Ms. [redacted] chose to take advantage of an incentive discount of 10% off of List price and trip charge. (- [redacted]
- This brought the project cost to [redacted]
Hence the [redacted] sale price that is advertised plus a [redacted] trip charge.
THE SEPARATE [redacted] OFFER
We also have a [redacted] off offer that can be applied to projects that do not have the "other restrictions may apply" disclaimer.
THE AGREEMENT / CONTRACT - (Copy submitted to Revdex.com for review)
Ms. [redacted]'s complaint is "Company not honoring discount in advertisement in offer". Yet in her own words she stated that they "Questioned [redacted] coupon at that time (time of estimate) and was told it did not apply". It was explained in detail to both Mr. & Ms. [redacted] before they made the decision to place their order that the offer did not apply to the package they had selected. This was made clear to the [redacted]'s prior to the contracted agreed upon price of [redacted]
Our office received a call from Ms. [redacted] when her project was almost 100% completed. She stated that she wanted [redacted] off her balance payment or she was going to report our company to the Revdex.com.
With the timing and nature of her demand we can't help but to conclude that this is a premeditated attempt to bully our company into giving her a discount that she was well aware did not apply to her project.
We fulfilled our end of the agreement by installing a beautiful new tub, shower wall system, plumbing, and fixtures. Not only did we do that but our installers also did additional work that was requested by the home owners at no additional charge. They cut down the door to the bathroom as it was rubbing on the new flooring that they had installed by a different contractor prior to our arrival. We were happy to do it.
RESPONSE SUMMURY
If we thought there was any confusion to our price or the nature of any discounts we would work to find a solution. Because the price of the project and the fact that the [redacted] offer did not apply to their project and was made clear to both Mr. & Mrs. [redacted] prior to them placing the order with us we will not be "refunding" the [redacted]
Moving forward we will look into our advertising and consider adding ADDITIONAL disclaimers to our offers.
PROVIDED TO THE Revdex.com:
1.) Copy of the advertisement 2.) Copy of the contract 3.) Before & after pictures of the project
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 17, 2015/07/13) */
[redacted]Document Attached[redacted]
Final Business Response /* (4000, 24, 2015/07/23) */
As previously stated and submitted to the Revdex.com. Under the "Complete Packages as low as [redacted] promotion it clearly states "Trip charges and other restrictions may apply".
As previously stated and submitted to the Revdex.com. Mr. & Mrs. [redacted]'s project price can be reviewed and is very straight forward.
Even if Ms. [redacted] thought this or that before she placed the call to our office. At the time of the estimate our Representative explained the package, pricing, restrictions, and the FACT that the coupon did not apply to the package in which they were interested. All before Mr. & Ms. [redacted] placed their order and signed the contract. Ms. [redacted] states, in her own words, that "Again, I just wanted him (our Representative) to go and therefore did not further question him about the discount, figuring I would take care of it when the project was completed." The time to "further question" the price because you didn't get the answer you wanted is NOT after you sign a contract agreeing on a price for the project or when the project is almost 100% completed.
Ms. [redacted] says that the timing of her call to our office when the project was almost 100% complete was not true. It is true and her statement about "figuring I would take care of it (the discount) after the project was completed" fully explains her intentions all along.
We will not be refunding any money as they knew the project price when the contract was signed.
Ms. [redacted]'s additional issues -
#1 & #2 (Faucet not level and additional touch up paint)
- The customer can call the office with any legitimate install issue and we will be happy to address them.
#3 (Not receiving the Bathtub they ordered)
- Our installer explained that the tub in the package is a 30" steel tub. He gave her the option of either building the back wall out and installing the steel tub or upgrading her to a 32" acrylic tub for free. Her response was "what do you mean I'm supposed to get a steel tub? I want Acrylic. I don't want steel".
#4 (Textured tub bottom)
- We really have no idea what this statement is referring to. We do not show or make any statement as to the slip resistant bottom of a bath tub other than all manufacturers have some texture that is done in their manufacturing process.
#5 (Pictures on our website)
-We do not handle this in house. Our install pictures are sent to an outside agency and they pick the pictures that they think look nice and use them. We will gladly remove the pictures of Mr. & Ms. [redacted]'s project. We have already submitted the request for this to be done. Please allow a few days for them to complete this request.
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 26, 2015/07/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The response I received today from the representative at Lifemark Bath regarding my complaint is degrading and condescending to my ethics and moral standards.
When I questioned the salesman about the [redacted] discount, I was told that he was giving me the 10 percent discount for signing and paying half that very day, NOT that the [redacted] off did not apply to my project. I implore and encourage Revdex.com to closely examine the advertisement that was previously sent to you by Lifemark in their first response. Please note that the coupon itself simply states "Special Offer [redacted] off on next bath or kitchen remodel" It does not state that restrictions may apply. The phrase "trip charges and other restrictions may apply" is listed under the description of the package for [redacted] at the top of the 3rd page of advertisement, not on the coupon. I still do not know why the [redacted] did not apply to my project and it was not explained by the salesman. As I said before I was very ill at the time with chemo treatments, resulting in hospitalization of 6 days just a day after signing of the contract and I just wanted the salesman out of my home. He was unprofessional during his time in our home with personal phone calls, complaints about his wife and other stories. He was here at least 2 hours for a simple estimate and contract signing.
In his response this time, the representative states that the timing of my call when the project was almost 100 percent complete is true. It can be proven in my first response that I did not say the timing was untrue. What I said was untrue was that I did NOT call Lifemark and demand the [redacted] discount and the immediately say I was going to call the Revdex.com. What I said and what is true is that I had at least a 20 minute conversation trying to find out why I didn't get the [redacted] discount. When it became clear that they would not be giving me the discount, I simply said that I would call the Revdex.com. This rep is inferring once again that my actions were premeditated and what my intentions were all along which is insulting and degrading to me.
In addition, the person responding to my complaints is going on heresay. He was not present during the estimate, the signing of the contract or during the install. In one place, which will be addressed further down, he even puts in quotes what I supposedly said about the bath tub. It is my understanding that the usage of quotes implies it is exactly what the person said, which is not true in this case. Again, he was not present during these conversations.
Additional Issues:
1 & 2. Lifemark will NOT be invited back into my home for anything. I will live with the imperfections they left behind.
3. Steel vs Acrylic tub: Respondent states in quotes: "what do you mean I'm supposed to get a steel tub? I want acrylic. I don't want steel." That conversation never took place. What happened was I was called into the bathroom by the leader of the work crew and told about the mistake in the size of the tub and what would need to be done to remedy the situation. Not knowing the advantages and disadvantages of steel vs acrylic, I questioned the crew leader. Going on his recommendation, I consented to going with the acrylic tub. I was fine signing the contract knowing I was contracting for a steel tub in the first place.
4. Textured tub bottom. Respondent states: they really have no idea what the statement is referring to and further states "We do not show or make any statement as to the slip resistant bottom of a bath tub other than all manufacturers have some texture that is done in their manufacturing process." The tub that was installed has NO slip resistant material applied. Because I wanted to see what they would say I had my brother inquire via email about the same package with the specific question regarding tub safety. Here is their response in it's entirety including date:
Original Message
From: [redacted]
To: [redacted]
Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2015 7:19 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Tubs
Hello [redacted],
We install both steel and acrylic replacement tubs. The budget
package
that you are referring to includes a steel tub. Although size
constraints do allow us to upgrade the steel to acrylic at no additional
charge in certain situations. As far as the "safety strips". I believe
you
are thinking of a after market product (meaning not in the tub
manufacturing
process) that people can purchase separately to add to
their tub or shower
bases. Our tubs do come with a textured bottom to
make them more slip
resistant. You can see examples of our replacement
tubs at our showroom
located at 3433-A S. Campbell in Springfield. I
hope this info helps and if I
can any additional questions or arrange
for a consultation / exact estimate.
Please let me know.
Thank you,
[redacted]
It does state that "Our tubs do come with a textured bottom to make them more slip
resistant." I feel it is blatantly obvious about who is telling the truth in this complaint process.
Again, I am requesting that the [redacted] coupon be honored.
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2015/06/25) */
In response to this claim and our advertisement:
We feel this AD is transparent and straight forward. We designed this "price point" AD as a result of so many people wanting a idea of what to expect and budget for on our most common remodel...
project. The feedback we have received on this AD has been very positive and appreciative. We have run this AD for almost 6 months without issue.
THE AD - (Copy submitted to Revdex.com for review)
The package is advertised "As low as [redacted] By the wording "As low as" it conveys the message that the price doesn't get any lower than [redacted] The AD then uses bullet points to describe the project this pricing is based on. The last bullet point under the AD is a disclaimer that reads. "Trip charge and other restrictions may apply".
THE RESTRICTIONS AND TRIP CHARGE
This is discussed and explained in detail when someone inquirers on this AD. This package price is based on using specific products, colors, models, finishes, etc. No other discounts or offers apply to this package. The [redacted] is the sale price and not the list price. There will be a trip charge applied in addition t to the package price depending on the distance from our warehouse to the project location.
Mr. & Ms. [redacted]'s PROJECT PRICE - Very straight forward
-The list price of the project was [redacted]
-They live 120 miles one way from our warehouse. There was a [redacted] trip charge applied to the list price to offset travel and lodging expenses incurred by our install crew.
- List Price [redacted] plus Trip charge [redacted] = [redacted]
- Mr. & Ms. [redacted] chose to take advantage of an incentive discount of 10% off of List price and trip charge. (- [redacted]
- This brought the project cost to [redacted]
Hence the [redacted] sale price that is advertised plus a [redacted] trip charge.
THE SEPARATE [redacted] OFFER
We also have a [redacted] off offer that can be applied to projects that do not have the "other restrictions may apply" disclaimer.
THE AGREEMENT / CONTRACT - (Copy submitted to Revdex.com for review)
Ms. [redacted]'s complaint is "Company not honoring discount in advertisement in offer". Yet in her own words she stated that they "Questioned [redacted] coupon at that time (time of estimate) and was told it did not apply". It was explained in detail to both Mr. & Ms. [redacted] before they made the decision to place their order that the offer did not apply to the package they had selected. This was made clear to the [redacted]'s prior to the contracted agreed upon price of [redacted]
Our office received a call from Ms. [redacted] when her project was almost 100% completed. She stated that she wanted [redacted] off her balance payment or she was going to report our company to the Revdex.com.
With the timing and nature of her demand we can't help but to conclude that this is a premeditated attempt to bully our company into giving her a discount that she was well aware did not apply to her project.
We fulfilled our end of the agreement by installing a beautiful new tub, shower wall system, plumbing, and fixtures. Not only did we do that but our installers also did additional work that was requested by the home owners at no additional charge. They cut down the door to the bathroom as it was rubbing on the new flooring that they had installed by a different contractor prior to our arrival. We were happy to do it.
RESPONSE SUMMURY
If we thought there was any confusion to our price or the nature of any discounts we would work to find a solution. Because the price of the project and the fact that the [redacted] offer did not apply to their project and was made clear to both Mr. & Mrs. [redacted] prior to them placing the order with us we will not be "refunding" the [redacted]
Moving forward we will look into our advertising and consider adding ADDITIONAL disclaimers to our offers.
PROVIDED TO THE Revdex.com:
1.) Copy of the advertisement 2.) Copy of the contract 3.) Before & after pictures of the project
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 17, 2015/07/13) */
[redacted]Document Attached[redacted]
Final Business Response /* (4000, 24, 2015/07/23) */
As previously stated and submitted to the Revdex.com. Under the "Complete Packages as low as [redacted] promotion it clearly states "Trip charges and other restrictions may apply".
As previously stated and submitted to the Revdex.com. Mr. & Mrs. [redacted]'s project price can be reviewed and is very straight forward.
Even if Ms. [redacted] thought this or that before she placed the call to our office. At the time of the estimate our Representative explained the package, pricing, restrictions, and the FACT that the coupon did not apply to the package in which they were interested. All before Mr. & Ms. [redacted] placed their order and signed the contract. Ms. [redacted] states, in her own words, that "Again, I just wanted him (our Representative) to go and therefore did not further question him about the discount, figuring I would take care of it when the project was completed." The time to "further question" the price because you didn't get the answer you wanted is NOT after you sign a contract agreeing on a price for the project or when the project is almost 100% completed.
Ms. [redacted] says that the timing of her call to our office when the project was almost 100% complete was not true. It is true and her statement about "figuring I would take care of it (the discount) after the project was completed" fully explains her intentions all along.
We will not be refunding any money as they knew the project price when the contract was signed.
Ms. [redacted]'s additional issues -
#1 & #2 (Faucet not level and additional touch up paint)
- The customer can call the office with any legitimate install issue and we will be happy to address them.
#3 (Not receiving the Bathtub they ordered)
- Our installer explained that the tub in the package is a 30" steel tub. He gave her the option of either building the back wall out and installing the steel tub or upgrading her to a 32" acrylic tub for free. Her response was "what do you mean I'm supposed to get a steel tub? I want Acrylic. I don't want steel".
#4 (Textured tub bottom)
- We really have no idea what this statement is referring to. We do not show or make any statement as to the slip resistant bottom of a bath tub other than all manufacturers have some texture that is done in their manufacturing process.
#5 (Pictures on our website)
-We do not handle this in house. Our install pictures are sent to an outside agency and they pick the pictures that they think look nice and use them. We will gladly remove the pictures of Mr. & Ms. [redacted]'s project. We have already submitted the request for this to be done. Please allow a few days for them to complete this request.
Final Consumer Response /* (4200, 26, 2015/07/24) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
The response I received today from the representative at Lifemark Bath regarding my complaint is degrading and condescending to my ethics and moral standards.
When I questioned the salesman about the [redacted] discount, I was told that he was giving me the 10 percent discount for signing and paying half that very day, NOT that the [redacted] off did not apply to my project. I implore and encourage Revdex.com to closely examine the advertisement that was previously sent to you by Lifemark in their first response. Please note that the coupon itself simply states "Special Offer [redacted] off on next bath or kitchen remodel" It does not state that restrictions may apply. The phrase "trip charges and other restrictions may apply" is listed under the description of the package for [redacted] at the top of the 3rd page of advertisement, not on the coupon. I still do not know why the [redacted] did not apply to my project and it was not explained by the salesman. As I said before I was very ill at the time with chemo treatments, resulting in hospitalization of 6 days just a day after signing of the contract and I just wanted the salesman out of my home. He was unprofessional during his time in our home with personal phone calls, complaints about his wife and other stories. He was here at least 2 hours for a simple estimate and contract signing.
In his response this time, the representative states that the timing of my call when the project was almost 100 percent complete is true. It can be proven in my first response that I did not say the timing was untrue. What I said was untrue was that I did NOT call Lifemark and demand the [redacted] discount and the immediately say I was going to call the Revdex.com. What I said and what is true is that I had at least a 20 minute conversation trying to find out why I didn't get the [redacted] discount. When it became clear that they would not be giving me the discount, I simply said that I would call the Revdex.com. This rep is inferring once again that my actions were premeditated and what my intentions were all along which is insulting and degrading to me.
In addition, the person responding to my complaints is going on heresay. He was not present during the estimate, the signing of the contract or during the install. In one place, which will be addressed further down, he even puts in quotes what I supposedly said about the bath tub. It is my understanding that the usage of quotes implies it is exactly what the person said, which is not true in this case. Again, he was not present during these conversations.
Additional Issues:
1 & 2. Lifemark will NOT be invited back into my home for anything. I will live with the imperfections they left behind.
3. Steel vs Acrylic tub: Respondent states in quotes: "what do you mean I'm supposed to get a steel tub? I want acrylic. I don't want steel." That conversation never took place. What happened was I was called into the bathroom by the leader of the work crew and told about the mistake in the size of the tub and what would need to be done to remedy the situation. Not knowing the advantages and disadvantages of steel vs acrylic, I questioned the crew leader. Going on his recommendation, I consented to going with the acrylic tub. I was fine signing the contract knowing I was contracting for a steel tub in the first place.
4. Textured tub bottom. Respondent states: they really have no idea what the statement is referring to and further states "We do not show or make any statement as to the slip resistant bottom of a bath tub other than all manufacturers have some texture that is done in their manufacturing process." The tub that was installed has NO slip resistant material applied. Because I wanted to see what they would say I had my brother inquire via email about the same package with the specific question regarding tub safety. Here is their response in it's entirety including date:
Original Message
From: [redacted]
To: [redacted]
Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2015 7:19 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Tubs
Hello [redacted],
We install both steel and acrylic replacement tubs. The budget
package
that you are referring to includes a steel tub. Although size
constraints do allow us to upgrade the steel to acrylic at no additional
charge in certain situations. As far as the "safety strips". I believe
you
are thinking of a after market product (meaning not in the tub
manufacturing
process) that people can purchase separately to add to
their tub or shower
bases. Our tubs do come with a textured bottom to
make them more slip
resistant. You can see examples of our replacement
tubs at our showroom
located at 3433-A S. Campbell in Springfield. I
hope this info helps and if I
can any additional questions or arrange
for a consultation / exact estimate.
Please let me know.
Thank you,
[redacted]
It does state that "Our tubs do come with a textured bottom to make them more slip
resistant." I feel it is blatantly obvious about who is telling the truth in this complaint process.
Again, I am requesting that the [redacted] coupon be honored.