Durango Red Cliff Properties, LLC

Complaint: [redacted] We are rejecting this response because: The pipes froze, we had a bad night, and a miserable first day of ski VACATION with everything in flux For this we still request reimbursement for that first night (please note that "waste water" and "raw sewage" are the same thing.) Yes, we carefully chose the first property It was, in our opinion, a Ritz caliber facility, albeit not at the ski resort itself but we had a rental car and the Resort provided a regular shuttle to the lifts so that was not a concern The unit we moved to was more like a Motel but right at the ski liftsThe statement "Red Cliff Properties is not a commercial hotel where it is possible to move guests from one equal suite to another Each property is a private home individually owned and furnished to suit the desires of each owner." speaks to the problem Since the parties involved include Red Cliff, the Owner, the Home Owners Association, etcaccountability is lackingWe have regularly used VRBO to find the best accommodations and, until this rental, have always rented directly from the owner, always with exceptional results and responsiveness We will ensure we do not rent thru a property management firm again and will advise our many skiing friends and families to also avoid them and rent from owners directly.V/R [redacted] and [redacted]

To whom it may concern: Regarding the frozen pipes: Red Cliff cannot assume to know the exact time that the pipes froze What can be said is that the head of housekeeping visits every property the day of guest arrival Her to do list includes running the water to make sure that the hot water heater is working, turning up the heat, and flushing all toilets to make sure that they are in working order (among other things)She does a complete run through of each room to make sure that everything is sparkling and ready for guests to enjoy their stay She also reports to the office if anything needs attention She found nothing wrong or not in working order at that timeIt is recognized that the guest did call the office mid evening regarding a small amount of water coming from the base of toilet It was determined between guest and Red Cliff in the phone conversation that there was no immediate need to come up, and Red Cliff would schedule a visit to the property on the list for the next morningWhen receiving the call again from the guest first thing in the morning, Red Cliff did immediately call the Cascade front desk, owners of the unit, and previous manager who was familiar with Cascade A call was then made to several others to ask for advice in proceeding with repairs since the Front Desk at Cascade was not returning calls Red Cliff called a very reputable plumber with years experience to come up as soon as possible to assess the problemThere is no benefit to the "he said, she said" as far as the sewage As soon as soon as the plumber arrived (who was miles away at the time) he then explained the problem which was also addressed in the first responseThe interior of the property was not being damaged nor was it damaged at all inside The only repairs that were required were to the pipes in the garage and the drywall of part of the ceiling in the parking garage There was no damage to the interior of this condo or any others condos along the lineSince no other units were being lived in or being rented at this time there was little to no more than waste water (not raw sewage) that was backed up Kevin was in the garage and there was no raw sewage pouring out of pipes, let alone coating carsWhen the plumber arrived before noon and reported what the problem was, Red Cliff promptly found two alternative property possibilities for guestsYes, the water was turned off at that point but it had been working up until approximately 11:to noon, it was not off the entire first nightGuest on site was alerted to the water turn offAt that time guests could still use toilet but not flush and could respectively fill up pitchers of water to use while waiting to see what the solution and or outcome might beRed Cliff found TWO alternatives for the guest to choose from The guests were not told that they could not check in until 4: (that is the usual check in time) but it was because the family was skiing that they moved in later in the day, not because of what was told to them It is completely understood that the guest chose carefully the first property in which they would spend their ski vacation Through no fault or lack of attention nature in itself is unpredictable and temps dipped very low and caused pipes to freeze This can often be a problem in the best of properties when the homes are above 9,and 10,feet in elevationNo Vacation Rental properties are equal in size or amenitiesRed Cliff chose to "upgrade" this guests and give them TWO choicesOne was a ski-in/ski-out (see description in first response)It does have a view of the ski slope and the court yard before the ski slopeIt does have a walk in shower and many other amenities It was yes, a very very nice condo but not equal in square footage or games, books, sledsThe second property was and is a second home which would have had all of what guests mentioned that they were looking for but they chose NOT to take the larger three story, four bed room home with the games, better equipped kitchen, and expanded viewIt was only one mile from the ski area when the condo that they were staying in was three miles to the ski area We cannot assume responsibility for what the guest chose when both options were offered to themRed Cliff did not give the owner of the Cascade condo any rent money but in fact gave the owner of the property they chose (Kendall MtnSuite) the entire amount because even then it was less than the fee the owners would receive if this unit had been rented for this time periodIt is irrelevant that it was not rented at that timeIt is not at Red Cliff's discretion to give properties away or reduce a fee without permission Red Cliff took care of the this family to best of their ability when in the midst of a problem such as this Red Cliff paid for the resort fee for these guests to use the extra amenities so they would have a more enjoyable stay We ended up with no commission as we felt it best to honor our owners and their home We also could not have been any more attentive to the needs of these guestsThough it is regrettable that the pipes froze, Red Cliff does not own any of the properties that they manage nor can they refund monies that are not theirs to refund We did our absolute best as a third party manager This statement was not meant to inflame and in no was a threat but rather to say, there were several ways in which Red Cliff could have responded Your total amount of money could have been refunded to you for you to then find another property That is not a threat, it is simply a fact Red Cliff chose to work for you to the best of their ability to find you an alternative and gave you two choices as to where you would like to stay Red Cliff Properties is not a commercial hotel where it is possible to move guests from one equal suite to another Each property is a private home individually owned and furnished to suit the desires of each owner This is the reason why Red Cliff Properties extended the courtesy to let these guests choose which property to move to, in which case both were an upgrade Life is unfortunately full of inconveniences This was regrettable but no one's faultRespectfully.Durango Red Cliff Properties Team

This
customer did have a rental contract with Red Cliff at our property Cascade
Trinity on Sunday February 7th through Friday February 12th 2016. Red
Cliff did receive a phone call in the evening from the Husband saying
that they did notice a "small" amount of water coming from the
base of
the toilet in the Master bedroom. He specifically stated that it was
not significant but wanted us to know. He was very nice at that time. We asked
if he would please put a hand towel at the base of the toilet which
would help keep any water from moving further into the bathroom. He
said that it was not a problem and would be happy to do so. We said
that we would send someone up from our team to assess it in the
morning. At 7:am
the following morning we received a second call from the same person
saying that he had gone down to the car in the garage and noticed that
several areas of the ceiling were starting to come loose due to water. This unit
shares a large garage space under condos. One of our staff arrived
about 10:am as he had other calls to attend to as he was headed up
the mountain. As soon as he arrived he called a plumber and alerted the condo
association. Red Cliff decided to move this family as it was unclear
at that time where the problem pipes were. As most units and properties
were already rented because of the busy holiday weekend, we gave upgrade options to these guests. The unit that they were
renting was a bedroom condo in a development three miles North
of the ski areaWe gave them two alternative choices to where they
could move.1. The
first was a 3,000+ square foot, bedroom, three story log
home with fireplace, fully equipped gourmet kitchen, and a private hot
tub on the back deck. It also had a BBQ and game room. This home is
tucked into the woods on acres just one mile from the ski area. 2. The
second choice that we gave them was a Presidential Suite at the ski
area on the top floor with elevator access. It was a bedroom with Double Master suites each with private baths and one bed room with bunk
beds and private bath with Jacuzzi tub This suite has two fireplaces,
a large wraparound deck with BBQ, private hot tub, private sauna,
living room, dining room, standard kitchen and laundry. The wrap
around deck overlooked the ski pavilion and slopes with locker for
skis. It was located above all the shops and restaurants at Durango
Mountain Resort. This property is a sand ski-out with
additional access to the private ski club with outdoor pool, Jacuzzi and work out
center.The
family decided that they would take the presidential suite (option 2)They did
not get back to us with their decision until the afternoon as many of
them were out skiing and they wanted a chance to speak with everyone in
the family and look at the properties we were offering. We let them know they were able to get in the unit at anytime they needed, but they let us know it would probably not be until after 4:anyways as everyone was out skiing. We expressed
our regret that they had to move however the Daughter in Law stated that
she understood and that the ski area was actually where they wanted to be in the
first place. At this time there was no complaint from the family as again they stated this was actually where they had wanted to stay.The guests original rent amount at Cascade Trinity was $for the total stayThe upgrade to the log cabin would have been $for the total stay.The
upgrade to the Presidential ski in and ski out was $for the
total stay. This unit has a mandatory 8% resort fee which Red Cliff paid for them to have access
to all the extra amenities of the club (pool, hot tub, workout center)All
of these facts were stated before the guest had made their choice, and this information was also sent to these
guests after we received their complaint and demand for further
reimbursement.The
temps in Durango at this time were registering in the degrees and even into negative numbers. We found out that the water lines were frozen in the garages units away
from where this family stayed. Our plumber said that there was no
sewer back up in the unit they were originally occupying and that it
was just water. It did not soak the bedroom floor but was contained in
the bathroom. We realize that this was an inconvenience but it was
not caused by human failure or lack of action by Red Cliff or Cascade
Village. Red Cliff Properties went out of their way to help these
guests in every way possible, including paying money out of our pocket for them to enjoy the club amenities. All money collected could have been refunded and they could have
been on their own to find a new place which would most likely been near
impossible, more cost to them, and many more miles to drive. Each
property that is managed by Red Cliff are owned by different owners, no
two are alikeThey were given options and they made their choice, and in each case it represented
a substantial upgrade

[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of the business's response.  If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me. It is sad however that Durango Red Cliff Properties still continues to deny responsibility for the damaged laundry and fails to acknowledge any potential health issues to  some people with the water in this house.  Consulting an expert or simple online research would confirm the problem, but this company seems more interested in defending themselves than in addressing a problem.  This shows lack of concern for the welfare of any future guests.  Only after filing this complaint did I find on this Revdex.com website another complaint where another claimant had been apparently treated with similar disregard.  I am puzzled as to why Revdex.com maintains an A+ rating on this company! Losing $50 in clothing was a disappointment, but we are not people who are so cash strapped that we couldn't afford to replace these item without this settlement.  My initial goal was merely to alert this company and the property owner of a concern for the health and safety of others guests and their property.  What I received back was denial and defensiveness and misleading, incorrect statements about "cosmetics".  In the future I will think carefully before using another company like this without checking with impartial websites as to the attitudes with which the treat their clients.  
Regards,
[redacted]

To whom it may concern: 1.       Regarding
the frozen pipes:  Red Cliff cannot assume to know the exact time that
the pipes froze.  What can
be said is that the head of housekeeping visits every property the day
of guest arrival.  Her to do list includes running the water to make sure that
the hot water heater is working, turning up the heat, and flushing all toilets to
make sure that they are in working order (among other things). She does a complete run through of
each room to make sure that everything is sparkling and ready for
guests to enjoy their stay.  She also reports to the office if anything
needs attention.  She found nothing wrong or not in working order at
that time. It
is recognized that the guest did call the office mid evening regarding a
small amount of water coming from the base of toilet.  It was determined
between guest and Red Cliff in the phone conversation that there was no
immediate need to come up, and Red Cliff would schedule a visit to the property
on the list for the next morning. When receiving the call again from the
guest first thing in the morning,  Red Cliff did immediately call the
Cascade front desk, owners of the unit, and previous manager who was
familiar with Cascade.  A call was then made to several others to ask
for advice in proceeding with repairs since the Front Desk at Cascade
was not returning calls.  Red Cliff called a very reputable plumber with
35 years experience to come up as soon as possible to assess the
problem. There is no benefit to
the "he said, she said" as far as the sewage.  As soon as soon as the
plumber arrived (who was 40 miles away at the time) he then explained the
problem which was also addressed in the first response. The
interior of the property was not being damaged nor was it damaged at
all inside.  The only repairs that were required were to the pipes in
the garage and the drywall of part of the ceiling in the parking garage.
There was no damage to the interior of this condo or any others condos
along the line. Since no other units were being lived in or being rented
at this time there was little to no more than waste water (not raw
sewage) that was backed up.  Kevin was in the garage and there was no
raw sewage pouring out of pipes, let alone coating cars. When the plumber
arrived before noon
and reported what the problem was, Red Cliff promptly found two
alternative property possibilities for guests. Yes, the water was turned
off at that point but it had been working up until approximately 11:00 to noon, it was not off the entire first night. Guest on site was alerted to the water turn off. At that time
guests
could still use toilet but not flush and could respectively fill up
pitchers of water to use while waiting to see what the solution and or
outcome might be. Red Cliff found TWO alternatives for the guest to
choose from.  The guests were not told that they could not check in
until 4:00
(that is the usual check in time) but it was because the family was
skiing that they moved in later in the day, not because of what was told
to them. 2.
        It is completely understood that the guest chose carefully the
first property in which they would spend their ski vacation.  Through no
fault or lack of attention nature in itself is unpredictable and temps
dipped very low and caused pipes to freeze.  This can often be a
problem in the best of properties when the homes are above 9,000 and
10,000 feet in elevation. No Vacation Rental properties
are equal in size or amenities. Red Cliff chose to "upgrade" this
guests and give them TWO choices. One was a ski-in/ski-out (see
description in first response). It does have a view of the ski slope and
the court yard before the ski slope. It does have a walk in shower and
many other amenities.  It was yes, a very very nice condo but not equal
in square footage or games, books, sleds. The second property was and is a second home
which would have had all of what guests mentioned that they were looking
for but they chose NOT to take the larger three story, four bed room
home with the games, better equipped kitchen, and expanded view. It was
only one mile from the ski area when the condo that they were staying in
was three miles to the ski area.  We cannot assume responsibility for
what the guest chose when both options were offered to them. Red
Cliff did not give the owner of the Cascade condo any rent money but in
fact gave the owner of the property they chose (Kendall Mtn. Suite) the
entire amount
because even then it was less than the fee the owners would receive if
this unit had been rented for this time period. It is irrelevant that
it was not rented at that time. It is not at Red Cliff's discretion to
give properties away or
reduce a fee without permission.  Red Cliff took care of the this
family to best of their ability when in the midst of a problem such as
this.  Red Cliff paid for the resort fee for these guests to use the
extra amenities so they would have a more enjoyable stay.  We ended up
with no commission as we felt it best to honor our owners and their
home.  We also could not
have been any more attentive to the needs of these
guests. Though it is regrettable that the pipes froze, Red Cliff does
not own any of the properties that they manage nor can they refund
monies that are not theirs to refund.  We did our absolute best as a
third party manager.  3.       
 This statement was not meant to inflame and in no was a threat but
rather to say, there were several ways in which Red Cliff could have
responded.  Your total amount of money could have been refunded to you
for you to then find another property.  That is not a threat, it is simply a fact.  Red Cliff chose to work for you to the best of
their ability to find you an alternative and gave you two choices as to where you would like to stay.  Red
Cliff Properties is not a commercial hotel where it is possible to
move guests from one equal suite to another.  Each property is a
private home individually owned and furnished to suit the desires of
each owner.  This is the reason why Red Cliff Properties extended the
courtesy to let these guests choose which property to move to, in which
case both were an upgrade.  Life is unfortunately full of
inconveniences.  This was regrettable but no one's fault. Respectfully.Durango Red Cliff Properties Team

Complaint: [redacted]
We are rejecting this response because:
1.  The pipes froze, we had a bad night, and a miserable first day of ski VACATION with everything in flux.  For this we still request reimbursement for that first night.   (please note that "waste water" and "raw sewage" are the same thing.)2.  Yes, we carefully chose the first property.  It was, in our opinion, a Ritz caliber facility, albeit not at the ski resort itself but we had a rental car and the Resort provided a regular shuttle to the lifts so that was not a concern.  The unit we moved to was more like a Motel 6 but right at the ski lifts. The statement "Red Cliff Properties is not a commercial hotel where it is possible to move guests from one equal suite to another.  Each property is a private home individually owned and furnished to suit the desires of each owner." speaks to the problem.  Since the parties involved include Red Cliff, the Owner, the Home Owners Association, etc. accountability is lacking. We have regularly used VRBO to find the best accommodations and, until this rental, have always rented directly from the owner, always with exceptional results and responsiveness.  We will ensure we do not rent thru a property management firm again and will advise our many skiing friends and families to also avoid them and rent from owners directly.V/R[redacted] and [redacted]

We are including our original response to guest: I am sorry to hear that you were not pleased with your overall experience.  This is a lovely spacious home that most families love with the private beaver pond, views, back deck hot tub, spacious bed rooms and living spaces. Please note that most...

cabin homes in the Rocky Mountain area often have a high concentration of Iron and at times, Sulfur. We have managed this home for 5 years.  We have never had a staining problem with either sheets or towels, ever.  In all 30 plus condos, cabins and homes that we manage we have a little basket with colored wash cloths and a little sign that says please use to remove make up. The reason we do this is because 98% of makeup and facial products now have a percentage of retinol in them. It is the same ingredients that the product Proactive uses.  This chemical tends to bleach pillow cases, towels and wash cloths.  Many of the homes that we manage are on wells.  They are tested for minerals and other harmful ingredients.  Iron is only harmful if it is above .3 parts per million and this well has tested well below this number.  Sulfur (while not often) can tend at times to be overwhelming, but can actually be good for skin. We have several natural hot springs that are commercial in the area that people actually seek to soak in.  We have never had a complaint that the water causes a rash.  A rash can be caused from chemicals in hot tubs (I myself have experienced this as I also have sensitive skin in some hot tubs).   We do take very seriously the cleanliness of our homes. While I am quite unhappy that a package of moldy bread was left I do not feel that this could be considered a health hazard. May I address the condiments in the refrigerator, we check the expiration dates on the bottles each time we clean.  It is the guests choice to use or not use but we find most guests like that they do not have to purchase all the condiments, as well as the kitchen spices that we try to have on hand with Coffee and Tea.  The body wash, shampoos and cream rinses are only a month or two old as we purchase at the beginning of each season. When they get down to 1/4 full we toss. We do not "re-fill" anything including liquid soaps at each sink and kitchen. Again, this is your choice to use or not use as you see fit.  As you saw we also provide a large supply of personal store samples in each bath room for guests convenience as well as new snacks in the kitchen as a welcome gift. I will speak with the cleaner about the items that she missed. This was a quick turn which means that the previous guests leave at 10:00 and new guest check in is at 4:00.  This can sometimes be a difficult time frame.  Our apologies.  As far as the clothes concerns, this is July 24th and your stay was June 25th.  Had you called to inform me during your stay and you felt you had a problem I would have been in a better position to try to rectify any concerns you might have had. You mentioned that you wear sunscreen under your clothes and that the worst staining was on the inside of your shirt.  As we have had three cleans in after your stay and not a sheet or a towel has stains on them I can only reach the conclusion that the sun screen is the culprit and it is not a water problem.  If your sun screen had a reaction to iron in the water I cannot tell. Again, I am very sorry that you did not find your stay satisfactory as that our intent is that you take home the best of memories. Respectfully, Gwen Durango Red Cliff Properties ________________________________________ In final response: We are including a review that we received just yesterday for this same home so that you may see that none of the issues you mentioned were experienced. The guest book for this property is filled with positive comments regarding this home and no one has ever had your complaints.  I will say again that no sheets and no towels have ever had stains and no damage to personal clothing has ever been reported by guests.  REVIEW: When we arrived, the place looked and smelled like it had just been cleaned. Nicest Hot Tub I've even been in, and an amazing view. You can see the 550 highway, but its far enough away you can't really hear the traffic or be seen. The rest of the view is mountains and just stunning. We had ten people total, two families with two kids each and a couple (grandparents). Tons of room. Our teenage boys loved the "teen cave" with the twin beds. My 15 year old used the loft sofa sleeper and loved it. We were there 3 days. There are 3 bathrooms, which worked for our group, but something to keep in mind. The kitchen plates, bowls, pans, everything was supplied and so nice - nicer than my home! We loved looking out those gorgeous windows, and saw beaver, deer and tons of squirrels and chipmunks. Nicest hot tub I've even been in, water was very clean and clear. Sitting in the hot tub on the back porch, wonderful view of the woods - we saw a deer while sitting in there. We all loved it, didn't want to leave, and hope to stay again!   The owner of this beautiful home has authorized us to send you a check for the $50.00 in hopes that you might not let this ruin your memories of your Colorado experience.  Life has enough serious challenges....and this is not one of them. Tell us why here...