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Encompass Engineering & Surveying

407 Swiftwater Blvd, Cle Elum, Washington, United States, 98922

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Reviews Professional Engineer, Land Surveyor Encompass Engineering & Surveying

Encompass Engineering & Surveying Reviews (%countItem)

The service that *** provided to me was irresponsible and worst of all, fraudulent and unethical on multiple occasions.

I hired Mr.N@*** to shortplat my lot, the contract lists 3 tasks with their estimated costs and subtask breakdowns, and specified that N will work on Task1 and Task2 and only when these two Tasks are completed, will move on to Task3 with my consent. The major expected accomplishment out of Task1&2 is to finish the pre-app meeting with the city.

Once they collected enough information for the pre-app meeting, N said the project is so straightforward that a walk-in maybe enough instead of the formal pre-app meeting(Task01). But after he did the walk-in, he said the city still required the formal pre-app meeting, and he will put materials together & submit the request.

Days later,N told me two subitems from Task3 are needed for the Task1 pre-app mtg(LIE). When I asked why the contract listed them under Task3 then, he said they are overlaps(LIE). I asked how much would those subitems from Task3 cost, he refused to tell me and said if I am not satisfied they will stop work.I couldn't authorize the extra work without knowing how much they might cost, so I instructed them to stop.

N then changed his story saying the pre-app mtg has completed, claiming that his walk-in trip WAS the pre-meeting(LIE) and the extra work that he previously said was needed for the pre-app were needed for "pre-submittal"(LIE). "pre-app mtg" and "pre-submittal" are the same things, I specifically got this confirmed from the city.

Overall, N lied to try charge for unnecessary work and when refused claimed they completed the pre-app that did not happen.I had to pay off all invoices so they will release my files, but no business should lie to make money and get way with this kind of conduct. When I contacted his supervisor A , he denied any wrongdoing.

This whole experience was terrible, I hope no other customers will experience the same.

Encompass Engineering & Surveying Response

It appears that the primary issue of the complaint was the client's misunderstanding of what the feasibility study and pre-application meeting (i.e. Task 01) would include. I tried to explain this on multiple occasions both via email and through telephone conversation and it never met her expectations. I advised her that without the necessary engineering for the submittal, we could not reasonably complete our design and the project would likely experience delays through the review process. Meaning, we should present a level of detail at the submittal that the city could provide definitive responses to. Chad A also tried to resolve it with her and even offered to attend the pre-submittal meeting at no charge, which she rejected.What was detailed in our signed agreement (copy attached) and what transpired clearly reflects our completion of a feasibility study with respect to Task 01. A copy of the City of Kirkland's short plat application checklist is also attached for reference and it clearly states that a pre-submittal meeting is mandatory (not a "pre-application meeting") and also outlines the requirements of the submittal. No engineering was included under Task 01, but it is clearly required for plan submittal and I've highlighted specific references on the attached application.Further, the client never expressed any frustration or dissatisfaction of services until she refused to proceed with the required engineering and was seemingly now demanding a fixed fee price for our services. At no time was the client refused an estimate for the cost of work, but rather she essentially made demands to itemize the components of Task 03 once the work was necessary.All work to date was in accordance with the terms of the signed agreement and within the provided cost estimates. It is regrettable that the client elected to choose this course of action rather than proceed with the necessary work, but at no time was Encompass fraudulent in their actions or the information relayed. Thanks,
Wayne N
Land Use Planner

Customer Response

Complaint: ***

I am rejecting this response because:

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The responses from Encompass continued to deny any wrong-doing and responsibility. But they need to know casuistry can't fool people. I would like a neutral party to closely review the following information:

First of all, here are the important concepts that are involved:
1. *** has been trying to use the two terms of "Pre-application meeting" and "Pre-submittal (meeting)" to be deceptive and cover up their lies. But they are the same thing. Here are my email correspondance with Kirkland planning department that confirmed that. If an Encompass employees/planner is not clear on this concept, then he is definitely incompetent for this line of work, and shouldn't waste customer's time and money.

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:13 AM, ***> wrote:
Yes, the pre-application and pre-submittal are the same thing. And a planner coming in over the counter does not count as a pre-submittal meeting.

From: *** Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 9:57 AM To: *** Subject: ***

Hi *** quick question, is the "pre-application" meeting and "pre-submittal" meeting referring to the same? There are not two different steps correct?
If my planner did a walk-in and spoke to staff at the counter, it can't be deemed as a pre-application (or pre-submittal meeting), right?
thank you so much,
-***

2. In ***' response, they tried to mention application submittal which is what Task03 is for, not Task01. I hired *** to perform Task01 and Task02 first, the main expected outcome out of them is the completion of the Pre-submittal*** meeting (a.k.a. pre-application meeting), and we agreed that they will proceed to Task03 only with my authorization after Task01 and Task02 are done. Task03 is to prepare for the actual application submittal, which will happen after the pre-application meeting went through with the city.

Here are some straightforward summary and timeline of what happened:

08/03: WN notified me that his walk-in meeting went ok and the city still required the "pre-submittal meeting" and he will proceed to prepare for it (sounds good to me, this is part of Task01)

08/11: WN notified me he is ready to submit the request for "the pre-app meeting" (note that he is using these two terms interchangably with 08/03). (sounds good to me, as this is part of Task01). And he told me he will transit to Task03 (they were trying to start unnecessary work, I then started to inquire about it).

08/14: WN told me he will only work on the part from Task03 that "is necessary for the pre-submittal meeting".
08/14: I asked how much would those part cost. (On the contract the whole Task03 estimated to cost $10000, and they were specified to be post pre-submittal items, but now since Encompass told me I need to do those to prepare for the pre-submittal, I think it is reasonable to know how much is the extra cost at this point)
08/14: WN responded and just told me the whole Task03 cost $10000 (which I already knew from the contract) but avoided my question of how much those "now necessary" items cost?
08/14: I responded again asking how much would be the cost, before I could authorize it.
08/14: WN still refused to tell me and said "If you are not satisfied, we can stop work at your request, but it is not feasible for either of us to continue this way". (It definitely is not feasible to conduct business this way)
08/15: I notified them to stop the work with Task01(Pre-application meeting) being incomplete (since they failed to get me started on unnecessary work and didn't submit the pre-submittal meeting request yet)
08/15: WN stated that the "pre-application meeting was held" already and those Task03 work were needed for the "pre-submittal meeting". (Does WN really not know they are the same thing or not? Was he telling me this false information intentionally (meaning unethically), or unintentionally (meaning he is incompetent).
Between 08/15 - 08/31: I fired them and paid *** in full at their demand so they would release my files. I contacted Kirkland city to put all materials together and requested the pre-application meeting myself. The city didn't request any of the work that WN told me were necessary. I got the pre-application meeting scheduled successfully with Kirkland city myself.

To summarize: *** 1) first told me that more work were needed at the time while they were not. 2) then repeatedly refused to tell me how much they would cost 3) when I fired them, they changed the story and insisted that the pre-application meeting was completed 4) continued to deny any wrongdoing and cover up by using conflicting statements and terminologies. These are all undeniable fraudulent conducts and I have all the emails to prove.

08/31: I managed to connect with WN's supervisor Mr.A and spoke to him on the phone about my experiences. He told me that WN should not have refused to tell me the cost of those Task03 items if he wanted me to authorize them, and also said WN shouldn't have said the pre-application meeting is complete, because that was incorrect. He offered to attend the pre-application meeting that I scheduled at no charge and I said I will think about it.

09/11: In writing, Mr.A told me he found zero basis to support my complaints and continued to say he would offer to attend pre-application meeting for me at no charge (while supporting WN's statement that "the pre-application was completed"). As one will see, ***' statements were full of self-contradiction and I really hope a business won't conduct themselves this way.

09/26: *** responded through Revdex.com and continued to deny responsibilities and tried to cover up and confuse people. WN even attached the checklist for the short-plat application submittal to try to confuse me and Revdex.com staff. Those checklist is for Task03, not task01. WN tried to make people think it is legitimate for him to make me authorize some of the work from that checklist, however that is an irrelevant list for Task01 (which is only the pre-application meeting, aka pre-submittal meeting).

I would like to request a 3rd party investigation to be conducted to make a judgement, and protect other customers from experiencing what I did.

Sincerely

Encompass Engineering & Surveying Response

At this point I'm not sure how to proceed. I asked my 'Mr. N' to respond to each question and those responses are listed below. It is our continual stance that we did nothing wrong and that *** cannot and will not be satisfied despite evidence that supports our stance. Her complaints have absolutely NO basis and we have submitted proof of that on multiple occasions. Mr. N clearly shows below that we have been asked and we answered the SAME QUESTIONS previously. We were completely transparent in our communications with ***, our contract spelled out the tasks and we, as always, acted in the best interests of our client. At some point this has to end, I can't afford to continue to dedicate company resources to repeat what's already been stated. I wish Ms. Wen were yet another satisfied client but I don't think anything we can say will allow for that.

- Do you recognize and admit that the "pre-application meeting" and "pre-submittal" meeting" are two different ways that people often use to refer to the exactly same thing? Yes, and that is exactly why we specified a "pre-application meeting" in Task 01, which was feasibility only. This is further evidence by the fact that the agreement also differentiates between a "conceptual layout" in Task 01 and the "Preliminary Short Plat" in Task 03. Further, Task 03 clearly states, "All meetings and coordination with the Client and applicable jurisdiction(s) shall be included," which would include, but not be limited to, the mandatory pre-submittal meeting, whereas Task 01 specifies, "One pre-application meeting with City staff and one site visit will be included."
Task 01 is a feasibility or information gathering exercise and it was performed exactly as intended and represented. The mandatory pre-submittal meeting is a required component of the preliminary short plat application, which is clearly covered under Task 03.
- Did you communicate to me after your walk-in trip that the city told you they still require the pre-application meeting and did you say that you will be preparing to submit the request for that meeting? Yes, and it was stated in context for your authorization to proceed with Task 03, as the terms of the agreement provided.
- Did you tell me that for the pre-application meeting, you need to perform two subtasks from Task3 from the contract? Yes, and this has never been disputed. The information gathered at the pre-application meeting was for feasibility purposes only. In order to adequately proceed with the design of the preliminary short plat, and for the city to provide detailed responses to the key issues (e.g. stormwater design, frontage improvement and access requirements), it was recommended that we proceed with Task 03. To submit the same conceptual site plan as was submitted at the pre-application meeting would mean that we would likely receive the same information back from the city, which would ultimately likely require additional design revisions during the review process and thereby causing unnecessary delay and expense.
- Is it true or false that the work from Task3 from the contract are NOT required for the pre-application meeting? (even though they may certainly be helpful) The city's preliminary short plat checklist is clear what is required to be included on a preliminary short plat. The city may elect to accept a lesser standard for pre-submittal purposes, but we believe that it would be to the overall detriment of the project.
- Is it reasonable or not for a consumer to know how much they will pay for a task before the work starts? The estimated expense of each task is clearly stated in the signed agreement.
- Did you refuse to tell me how much those subtasks from Task03 will cost after I asked a couple of times? And instead of telling me how much they would cost so we can move forward with my project, did you then tell me "if you are not satisfied with our work, then you can ask us to stop". As stated above, the estimated cost for each task is clearly stated in the agreement and you were referred back to it. Also, just to be clear, here is the content my email to you in its entirety. This was sent on August 14th at 5:46 pm and you instructed us to stop work via email the following morning, August 15th, at 9:14 am.
Hi ***,
I don't believe the contract is misleading and I've spent a lot of personal time responding to your multiple requests that was not accounted for in the scope of work. There is a significant difference between a conceptual layout for feasibility and preliminary short plat maps and engineering for submittal. I've made every effort to keep your project in line with the estimated budget and I will continue to do so. I've also explained the process and contract to you on over the phone, via email and have cited the contract itself, so I'm not sure how else to respond to your continued concerns and requests. If you are not satisfied with our progress and/or work, we can stop work at your request, but it's not feasible for either of us to continue this way.Please advise how you would like to proceed.- After I authorized you to stop the work, did you then tell me the pre-application meeting is completed claiming the walk-in trip is the pre-application meeting. Let me ask you, since you said those subtasks from Task03 were needed for pre-application meeting, none of those work were done because you won't tell me how much they cost, how come suddenly "the pre-application meeting was completed"? Again, for clarity, here is the content of my email in its entirety:
Hi ***,The pre-application meeting was held August 3rd with representatives of both Public Works and Planning and I provided you with a summary via email that same afternoon. If you still have questions related to the feasibility of the short plat, I'm happy to do additional work and provide you with a more detailed summary. Please keep in mind that all tasks are billed on time & materials basis and the fees are estimated, which is expressly stated in the signed agreement. In other words, we can continue with additional feasibility work and it will be billed accordingly. My recommendation is to proceed with Task 03, as the more information we have for the pre-submittal meeting, the better the city will be able to respond to our questions and comments. It will also reduce the number of corrections necessary and the overall review time frame.Please let me know how you would like to proceed.- Did you or not go on to say those subtasks that you said were needed were for the "pre-submittal" meeting" to try make me think that the pre-application meeting and the pre-submittal meeting are two different things.
I believe you're continuing to mischaracterize or misconstrue my statements and the full text of the referenced emails clearly demonstrates this. The project was on time and on budget and so I'm at a complete loss for how you came to the conclusion that you were somehow being deceived. What is most alarming is how your apparent frustration and accusations have so quickly escalated, particularly in your last statements to the Revdex.com. We welcome any third party review of your complaint and stand by our performance of services, as well as our efforts to provide for reasonable resolution.

Customer Response

Complaint: ***

I am rejecting this response because:

Dear ***

The response from *** left me speechless. In order to cover up and justify their previous malpractices, they were blatantly making up more lies, which actually demonstrate how relentlessly fabricating they are becoming in order to get away with the mistakes. One simple example, there is NO cost breakdown within each Task from the contract, however, when they tried to "address" my complaint point about them refusing to provide me the cost of the subtasks (note: sub*** tasks), they went as far as simply stating exact the opposite of the truth saying the breakdown cost are in the contract, in the face of the contract that they uploaded themselves, there were also numerous screenshots of email thread that shows the part of that Contract with NO cost breakdown. It is inconceivable how somebody would simply claim something exists while there is obvious and hard evidences that show that they don't exist.

Can we please have somebody from Revdex.com to examine everything and make a determination? Since apparently this business is determined to deny any wrongdoing at all cost. Very eye-opening.

I am attaching the zoomed-in Task03 portion of the contract (uploaded by the business) which shows there is NO cost breakdown of the subtasks. There are other simple and obvious logic fallacies and self-contradictions all through their self-justifying attempts, but I think this example is already enough to show how untrustworthy they are and how far their fabrication has gone.

Thank you,

-***

Sincerely

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Address: 407 Swiftwater Blvd, Cle Elum, Washington, United States, 98922

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