Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] and have determined that the response would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.We quoted the replacement units to this church after giving them several options that would have been more adequate and energy efficient then what they purchased from us based on what they could afford.Replacing entire systems (with air-handlers, coils, and outdoor units) including an additional system in the front of the sanctuary. News to us that this was offered as an option.Replacing with ductless systems. News to us that this was offered as an option.Replacing outdoor units only with the heat pumps and added a resistance electric bank to sanctuary air-handler (this was the least expensive and only affordable option for their church). We asked what could be done to make our sanctuary and CE centers more heat efficient, not what we could afford, though we let him know that we had an $8,000 grant to purchase more efficient units. But if the units weren’t going to save us finances on our monthly bills we wouldn’t have had them replaced.These units (heat pumps) were only outdoor replacements using the existing indoor air-handlers. Which he inferred would be more efficient than the present units. The sanctuary was a 5 Ton a/c only that was replaced with a 5 Ton heat pump which was the largest single size available using the existing air-handler and ducting. We were never told that the air handler was an issue, only that the unit he suggested we put in would be more efficient. He let us believe that the present ducting would be sufficient to cool the sanctuary, and that the heating would do the same. This unit sits at the back of the sanctuary, we explained to their pastor prior to the final sale that there was no way to add ducting to the front of the sanctuary, due to the open concept, and that it would be better to install a ductless Fujitsu system. I don’t recall such an explanation. The Fujitsu ductless would be more efficient and make the entire sanctuary comfortable in both winter and summer. He explained after the 5 ton unit was installed that we would need the ductless systems to cool and heat the sanctuary.The C.E. section was a heat pump replacement due to a bad compressor. The compressor wasn’t bad on old unit, he said it was probably the exchanger, and that a new unit would heat and cool the CE unit efficiently.We were informed that systems cooled well during summer months and seemed to be working fine, the complaints didn’t start until the winter months. We complained that it wasn’t cooling any better in the Summer than the old one but it was a fairly mild Summer, and that’s when he told us we needed two new ductless units to cool it off properly. After October we received numerous calls about the sanctuary not heating well, upon arriving each time we found that the thermostat programs had been changed by someone from the church. The thermostats were never changed by anyone in the church, and we had him come out and he re-programed it. After reprogramming the thermostat, the system worked well, and we informed them that changing the programs would not allow the system to function properly. Don’t recall that being said to me. These calls were done at no charge under our 1-year labor warranty. Sometime in December 2014 we followed up on a call for the heat pump in the C.E. section. After checking the system, we found that the system was working at its fullest capacity. Numerous times checking customer complaints during heating season at no charge while finding that the systems were in fact working at full capacity, (proper Freon charge, amperage draw, and back up heaters working). They also had promised to re-work the duct work when replacing the CE unit, which they didn’t do until the 2nd or 3rd time they came out. Evidently one of their men broke a 2x4 supporting the duct work, and so they duct-taped it. But it kept leaking air and came out and did more duct work, and charged us another $600+ for work they didn’t do right the first two times. Finally got them to redo the duct work. They tested the system to see if air flow was correct and heating properly, and they said it was. But the heat pump unit kept running all the time, causing our heat costs to jump $20-30 per month from the years before with the old heat pump. If this system in fact isn’t large enough now, then it wasn’t big enough when we changed out the outdoor unit with a direct replacement using the same indoor existing electric air-handler, which we didn’t change, due to their budget restraints. No, we were told this unit would be sufficient and efficient with the old handler. The exchanger wasn’t changed because he never told us it needed to, but that the old one was sufficient and had no leaks. The pastor did mention during the quoting process that the C.E. section seemed to have trouble keeping up but assumed it was due to the compressor issues. I’m not the heat/a/c man, how would I know if it was a compressor issue? All I knew was that the unit keeps running even after it reaches the heat level reading on the thermostat. So they replaced the thermostat, and it didn’t do any good. The repairman tested heat in CE unit and it was coming outover 100 degrees but it wasn’t shutting the heat or a/c unit off. He put a thermometer in several places and it was reading 76 degrees but the unit still wasn’t shutting off. They haven’t been back out since.At that time, we informed him that to install a larger outdoor unit we would have to change out the entire system including a larger matching indoor unit and coil, his response was that they didn’t have the funds to do so, they could only afford to change the outdoor unit. I was never informed that we needed a larger unit anywhere, nor that we needed to replace the entire system. And we didn’t have the funds because he never told us what he was installing was sufficient and that our $8000 grant would cover it.After checking and sealing existing ducting in C.E. section to be sure customer was getting proper air flow, we found numerous leaks in the ducting, both supply and returns, which we did repair at an additional cost. Which we were told they would fix as part of the original quote.We have spent many unpaid hours both late nights and weekends trying to satisfy the needs of this church only to find that there is nothing we do that will please them. The unpaid hours were because the installation wasn’t working properly, and we shouldn’t have to pay for something that they didn’t do correctly. Evidently these units shouldn’t have been put in at all as they aren’t doing anything our old ones weren’t already doing. And that’s the whole point...they sold us units that we were told would save us money on heat and cooling bills, and they aren’t...in fact, costing us more. They have done nothing to “please” us because it has done nothing to improve our costs for heating and cooling. Don’t be putting the blame on us that we’re somehow un-pleaseable. We would be very pleased if you had put units in that would have cooled and heated the centers as we were told would happen by these new units. The church also approached us this summer (July 24th, 2015) for another quote to install the ductless systems that we recommended during the first quote, however they didn’t qualify for another grant at this time. We asked for the quote for ductless because the unit they installed isn’t doing anything for us...a complete waste of the grant money we did receive.We deeply regret that we have not been able to find a way that would satisfy this church other then what they agreed to by excepting our proposal.We accepted the proposal because we were led to believe these units would be cost efficient for us and they are not. If they weren’t going to do that for us then we should have been told they were inadequate for that purpose. We feel like we were taken advantage of because we had an $8000 grant and he wanted to make a sale for profit. Our problem was that we trusted him at his word. If the information bids had been offered to us as listed above we would have been able to make a better decision about using them. It’s about as much of what he DIDN’T tell us as about what he DID tell us. We’re very disappointed that we were led to believe that these units would save us on heating/cooling costs and have not, and are now finding out that they are adequate units to do what we intended they do.
Regards,
[redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that the response would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
[Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.] The units that were installed are neither efficient nor sufficient for our needs, even after being told they would. If the budget constraints we had were not able to purchase units that were efficient and sufficient we would not have purchased them. Our whole goal was to save on our heating costs, and we were sold units that not only don't save us on heating costs but are costing us more than the old units that were replaced. We have recently replaced our boiler system with a new, highly efficient unit because the heat pump unit that was replaced isn't nearly sufficient enough to heat our sanctuary. It was a total waste of grant monies that were given to our church, and now we're having to raise funds to replace the CE unit that he convinced us would save us on heating costs.
Regards,
[redacted]
We quoted the replacement units to this church after giving them several options that would have been more adequate and energy efficient then what they purchased from us based on what they could afford. 1. Replacing entire systems (with air-handlers, coils, and outdoor...
units) including an additional system in the front of the sanctuary. 2. Replacing with ductless systems. 3. Replacing outdoor units only with the heat pumps and added a resistance electric bank to sanctuary air-handler (this was the least expensive and only affordable option for their church). These units (heat pumps) were only outdoor replacements using the existing indoor air-handlers. The sanctuary was a 5 Ton a/c only that was replaced with a 5 Ton heat pump which was the largest single size available using the existing air-handler and ducting. This unit sits at the back of the sanctuary, we explained to their pastor prior to the final sale that there was no way to add ducting to the front of the sanctuary, due to the open concept, and that it would be better to install a ductless Fujitsu system. The Fujitsu ductless would be more efficient and make the entire sanctuary comfortable in both winter and summer. The C.E. section was a heat pump replacement due to a bad compressor. We were informed that systems cooled well during summer months and seemed to be working fine, the complaints didn’t start until the winter months. After October we received numerous calls about the sanctuary not heating well, upon arriving each time we found that the thermostat programs had been changed by someone from the church. After reprogramming the thermostat, the system worked well, and we informed them that changing the programs would not allow the system to function properly. These calls were done at no charge under our 1-year labor warranty. Sometime in December 2014 we followed up on a call for the heat pump in the C.E. section. After checking the system, we found that the system was working at its fullest capacity. Numerous times checking customer complaints during heating season at no charge while finding that the systems were in fact working at full capacity, (proper Freon charge, amperage draw, and back up heaters working). If this system in fact isn’t large enough now, then it wasn’t big enough when we changed out the outdoor unit with a direct replacement using the same indoor existing electric air-handler, which we didn’t change, due to their budget restraints. The pastor did mention during the quoting process that the C.E. section seemed to have trouble keeping up but assumed it was due to the compressor issues. At that time, we informed him that to install a larger outdoor unit we would have to change out the entire system including a larger matching indoor unit and coil, his response was that they didn’t have the funds to do so, they could only afford to change the outdoor unit. After checking and sealing existing ducting in C.E. section to be sure customer was getting proper air flow, we found numerous leaks in the ducting, both supply and returns, which we did repair at an additional cost. We have spent many unpaid hours both late nights and weekends trying to satisfy the needs of this church only to find that there is nothing we do that will please them. The church also approached us this summer (July 24th, 2015) for another quote to install the ductless systems that we recommended during the first quote, however they didn’t qualify for another grant at this time. We deeply regret that we have not been able to find a way that would satisfy this church other then what they agreed to by excepting our proposal.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that the response would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.]I've attached a response to his response. Bottom line is that he sold us units that are not adequate but had indicated they would be adequate and efficient. They are not.
Regards,
[redacted]
We quoted the replacement units to this church after giving them several options that would have been more adequate and energy efficient then what they purchased from us based on what they could afford. 1. Replacing entire systems (with air-handlers, coils, and outdoor units) including an additional system in the front of the sanctuary. News to us that this was offered as an option. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I had only talked with the pastor of the church, he relayed all correspondence to the board members and I have no idea what he told them. This was odd that the board members were not present at any of our discussions. In fact, I had never spoken with any of the board members. These options were verbal conversations between the pastor and myself until he informed me of their only affordable option, it was only then when I was asked to write the quote. 2. Replacing with ductless systems. News to us that this was offered as an option. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The pastor knows full well that this was an option that we had discussed. · I have done HVAC for many area churches including retrofits and new construction, with great satisfaction by the churches. However, this is the only time that I haven’t had at least 1 board member present during a project of this caliber. 3. Replacing outdoor units only with the heat pumps and added a resistance electric bank to sanctuary air-handler (this was the least expensive and only affordable option for their church). We asked what could be done to make our sanctuary and CE centers more heat efficient, not what we could afford, though we let him know that we had an $8,000 grant to purchase more efficient units. But if the units weren’t going to save us finances on our monthly bills we wouldn’t have had them replaced. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · Again, the pastor told me that replacement was the only option that they could afford and the compressor was out on the sanctuary A/C unit and needed replaced. This is why we were called out to begin with. · The pastor began then to ask for other options and I then offered several including what they settled with. These units (heat pumps) were only outdoor replacements using the existing indoor air-handlers. Which he inferred would be more efficient than the present units. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I never inferred that these units would be more efficient, only that they were rated at 13SEER compared to the 10SEER rating of the old units, however to get the full efficiency the entire systems should be replaced, including the air-handlers. The sanctuary was a 5 Ton a/c only that was replaced with a 5 Ton heat pump which was the largest single size available using the existing air-handler and ducting. We were never told that the air handler was an issue, only that the unit he suggested we put in would be more efficient. He let us believe that the present ducting would be sufficient to cool the sanctuary, and that the heating would do the same. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The pastor’s response is totally untrue, I had thoroughly discussed how these systems functioned and how they would not reach their full efficiency without proper ducting to reach the front of the sanctuary. · I informed the pastor that the present system was originally sized for the room size and didn’t take in account the occupancy load. · This is when I had suggested the Mini-split systems at the front of the sanctuary. This unit sits at the back of the sanctuary, we explained to their pastor prior to the final sale that there was no way to add ducting to the front of the sanctuary, due to the open concept, and that it would be better to install a ductless Fujitsu system. I don’t recall such an explanation. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I am quite sure if the pastor honestly thinks back to our conversations, he will recall this explanation. The Fujitsu ductless would be more efficient and make the entire sanctuary comfortable in both winter and summer. He explained after the 5-ton unit was installed that we would need the ductless systems to cool and heat the sanctuary. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I never wrote the proposal until all options were discussed. The C.E. section was a heat pump replacement due to a bad compressor. The compressor wasn’t bad on old unit, he said it was probably the exchanger, and that a new unit would heat and cool the CE unit efficiently. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · This system was running continuously with high amperages and high head pressures, not cooling well, which indicates that the compressor is all but done for. We were informed that systems cooled well during summer months and seemed to be working fine, the complaints didn’t start until the winter months. We complained that it wasn’t cooling any better in the Summer than the old one but it was a fairly mild Summer, and that’s when he told us we needed two new ductless units to cool it off properly. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · This is another false statement from the pastor. I had spoken with him on numerous occasions during the summer and early fall when he informed not only me but also my employees how well the systems were working. · The church seemed to be very satisfied at that time. After October we received numerous calls about the sanctuary not heating well, upon arriving each time we found that the thermostat programs had been changed by someone from the church. The thermostats were never changed by anyone in the church, and we had him come out and he re-programed it. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · On several occasions (at least 3 times that fall if not more) when I or one of my employees showed up in response to a call we would find that the thermostat’s programs were not where they were originally set to. · This happened up through November of that year. After reprogramming the thermostat, the system worked well, and we informed them that changing the programs would not allow the system to function properly. Don’t recall that being said to me. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · HONESTLY!!!? · I am having a hard time with this memory issue from a church pastor. These calls were done at no charge under our 1-year labor warranty. Sometime in December 2014 we followed up on a call for the heat pump in the C.E. section. After checking the system, we found that the system was working at its fullest capacity. Numerous times checking customer complaints during heating season at no charge while finding that the systems were in fact working at full capacity, (proper Freon charge, amperage draw, and back up heaters working). They also had promised to re-work the duct work when replacing the CE unit, which they didn’t do until the 2nd or 3rd time they came out. Evidently one of their men broke a 2x4 supporting the duct work, and so they duct-taped it. But it kept leaking air and came out and did more duct work, and charged us another $600+ for work they didn’t do right the first two times. Finally got them to redo the duct work. They tested the system to see if air flow was correct and heating properly, and they said it was. But the heat pump unit kept running all the time, causing our heat costs to jump $20-30 per month from the years before with the old heat pump. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I never promised or quoted redoing the ducting in the CE system. · Only began to look at this ducting because the pastor said they were not getting any airflow, which goes back to the original system. We only changed the outdoor unit which has nothing to do with an airflow issue. If there is an airflow issue it was preexistent because we never changed anything inside the building · The pastor originally told me that the indoor system worked fine which obviously wasn’t a true assessment by the pastor. If this system in fact isn’t large enough now, then it wasn’t big enough when we changed out the outdoor unit with a direct replacement using the same indoor existing electric air-handler, which we didn’t change, due to their budget restraints. No, we were told this unit would be sufficient and efficient with the old handler. The exchanger wasn’t changed because he never told us it needed to, but that the old one was sufficient and had no leaks. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · No, the pastor told me during our assessment that this system was not cooling or heating as well as it had in the past. This is when we check the performance of the outdoor unit and found that the amperage and pressures were running high (at maximum). · This is where we informed the pastor that the performance was probably a compressor issue if the system in fact had previously performed better. · At that time the pastor asked if we could change out the outdoor unit on CE and if that would help. I told him we could if in fact it did keep up before. The pastor did mention during the quoting process that the C.E. section seemed to have trouble keeping up but assumed it was due to the compressor issues. I’m not the heat/a/c man, how would I know if it was a compressor issue? All I knew was that the unit keeps running even after it reaches the heat level reading on the thermostat. So they replaced the thermostat, and it didn’t do any good. The repairman tested heat in CE unit and it was coming out over 100 degrees but it wasn’t shutting the heat or a/c unit off. He put a thermometer in several places and it was reading 76 degrees but the unit still wasn’t shutting off. They haven’t been back out since. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The heat pump is creating 100 degrees of heat and putting out 76 degrees from the supplies which is sufficient for the system. At that time, we informed him that to install a larger outdoor unit we would have to change out the entire system including a larger matching indoor unit and coil, his response was that they didn’t have the funds to do so, they could only afford to change the outdoor unit. I was never informed that we needed a larger unit anywhere, nor that we needed to replace the entire system. And we didn’t have the funds because he never told us what he was installing was sufficient and that our $8000 grant would cover it. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · Through all of the discussions with the pastor of the best options, he always referred back that they were limited on their funding. I as the contractor explained all the options for the highest efficiencies and long term cost savings. Had he listened to my recommendations and waited on the proper funding we would not be having this disagreement now. · I believe he sold the board members on his opinion, trying to save the church money on a short term. After checking and sealing existing ducting in C.E. section to be sure customer was getting proper air flow, we found numerous leaks in the ducting, both supply and returns, which we did repair at an additional cost. Which we were told they would fix as part of the original quote. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · This was not part of our quote nor implied to be part of the scope of the project. We have spent many unpaid hours both late nights and weekends trying to satisfy the needs of this church only to find that there is nothing we do that will please them. The unpaid hours were because the installation wasn’t working properly, and we shouldn’t have to pay for something that they didn’t do correctly. Evidently these units shouldn’t have been put in at all as they aren’t doing anything our old ones weren’t already doing. And that’s the whole point…they sold us units that we were told would save us money on heat and cooling bills, and they aren’t…in fact, costing us more. They have done nothing to “please” us because it has done nothing to improve our costs for heating and cooling. Don’t be putting the blame on us that we’re somehow un-please able. We would be very pleased if you had put units in that would have cooled and heated the centers as we were told would happen by these new units. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The installation was done correctly and professionally; systems were running at specified levels of performance. · The sanctuary unit was replaced because the compressor was burnt out and was an A/C only unit at that time. · The un-please able part comes back to the fact the pastor didn’t follow my recommendations as a contractor. I still believe he sold the board members on the lowest cost system and not on my recommendations which would have saved them money on the long term. The church also approached us this summer (July 24th, 2015) for another quote to install the ductless systems that we recommended during the first quote, however they didn’t qualify for another grant at this time. We asked for the quote for ductless because the unit they installed isn’t doing anything for us…a complete waste of the grant money we did receive. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The cheapest options are never the best, had he and the board members followed my recommendations they could have had the ductless systems installed from the beginning and be enjoying the comfort and savings. · I cannot force customers to buy the best systems, I can only offer the best options and allow them to make their own educated decisions after discussing my recommendation. We deeply regret that we have not been able to find a way that would satisfy this church other then what they agreed to by excepting our proposal. We accepted the proposal because we were led to believe these units would be cost efficient for us and they are not. If they weren’t going to do that for us, then we should have been told they were inadequate for that purpose. We feel like we were taken advantage of because we had an $8000 grant and he wanted to make a sale for profit. Our problem was that we trusted him at his word. If the information bids had been offered to us as listed above we would have been able to make a better decision about using them. It’s about as much of what he DIDN’T tell us as about what he DID tell us. We’re very disappointed that we were led to believe that these units would save us on heating/cooling costs and have not, and are now finding out that they are adequate units to do what we intended they do. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · They chose the least efficient system by their own choice. · They took advantage of themselves by not following my recommendations. · I have kept my word and installed the systems they chose to purchase. · The pastor was very well informed, the only ones that may not have been informed is the board members and I do not know what information the pastor relayed to them. · I never lead anyone to believe anything that was not true or failed to preform what I said I would do. · I do not and will not take advantage of my customers, especially a church. · I have built this business by 99 percent word of mouth and I am not willing to compromise it now! I have been and always will be straight forward when working with my customers. · I have worked with many churches in our community with a 100 percent success rate. I can also have them give their referral for the work I’ve done for them, the scope and performance of the work.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] and have determined that the response would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.We quoted the replacement units to this church after giving them several options that would have been more adequate and energy efficient then what they purchased from us based on what they could afford.Replacing entire systems (with air-handlers, coils, and outdoor units) including an additional system in the front of the sanctuary. News to us that this was offered as an option.Replacing with ductless systems. News to us that this was offered as an option.Replacing outdoor units only with the heat pumps and added a resistance electric bank to sanctuary air-handler (this was the least expensive and only affordable option for their church). We asked what could be done to make our sanctuary and CE centers more heat efficient, not what we could afford, though we let him know that we had an $8,000 grant to purchase more efficient units. But if the units weren’t going to save us finances on our monthly bills we wouldn’t have had them replaced.These units (heat pumps) were only outdoor replacements using the existing indoor air-handlers. Which he inferred would be more efficient than the present units. The sanctuary was a 5 Ton a/c only that was replaced with a 5 Ton heat pump which was the largest single size available using the existing air-handler and ducting. We were never told that the air handler was an issue, only that the unit he suggested we put in would be more efficient. He let us believe that the present ducting would be sufficient to cool the sanctuary, and that the heating would do the same. This unit sits at the back of the sanctuary, we explained to their pastor prior to the final sale that there was no way to add ducting to the front of the sanctuary, due to the open concept, and that it would be better to install a ductless Fujitsu system. I don’t recall such an explanation. The Fujitsu ductless would be more efficient and make the entire sanctuary comfortable in both winter and summer. He explained after the 5 ton unit was installed that we would need the ductless systems to cool and heat the sanctuary.The C.E. section was a heat pump replacement due to a bad compressor. The compressor wasn’t bad on old unit, he said it was probably the exchanger, and that a new unit would heat and cool the CE unit efficiently.We were informed that systems cooled well during summer months and seemed to be working fine, the complaints didn’t start until the winter months. We complained that it wasn’t cooling any better in the Summer than the old one but it was a fairly mild Summer, and that’s when he told us we needed two new ductless units to cool it off properly. After October we received numerous calls about the sanctuary not heating well, upon arriving each time we found that the thermostat programs had been changed by someone from the church. The thermostats were never changed by anyone in the church, and we had him come out and he re-programed it. After reprogramming the thermostat, the system worked well, and we informed them that changing the programs would not allow the system to function properly. Don’t recall that being said to me. These calls were done at no charge under our 1-year labor warranty. Sometime in December 2014 we followed up on a call for the heat pump in the C.E. section. After checking the system, we found that the system was working at its fullest capacity. Numerous times checking customer complaints during heating season at no charge while finding that the systems were in fact working at full capacity, (proper Freon charge, amperage draw, and back up heaters working). They also had promised to re-work the duct work when replacing the CE unit, which they didn’t do until the 2nd or 3rd time they came out. Evidently one of their men broke a 2x4 supporting the duct work, and so they duct-taped it. But it kept leaking air and came out and did more duct work, and charged us another $600+ for work they didn’t do right the first two times. Finally got them to redo the duct work. They tested the system to see if air flow was correct and heating properly, and they said it was. But the heat pump unit kept running all the time, causing our heat costs to jump $20-30 per month from the years before with the old heat pump. If this system in fact isn’t large enough now, then it wasn’t big enough when we changed out the outdoor unit with a direct replacement using the same indoor existing electric air-handler, which we didn’t change, due to their budget restraints. No, we were told this unit would be sufficient and efficient with the old handler. The exchanger wasn’t changed because he never told us it needed to, but that the old one was sufficient and had no leaks. The pastor did mention during the quoting process that the C.E. section seemed to have trouble keeping up but assumed it was due to the compressor issues. I’m not the heat/a/c man, how would I know if it was a compressor issue? All I knew was that the unit keeps running even after it reaches the heat level reading on the thermostat. So they replaced the thermostat, and it didn’t do any good. The repairman tested heat in CE unit and it was coming outover 100 degrees but it wasn’t shutting the heat or a/c unit off. He put a thermometer in several places and it was reading 76 degrees but the unit still wasn’t shutting off. They haven’t been back out since.At that time, we informed him that to install a larger outdoor unit we would have to change out the entire system including a larger matching indoor unit and coil, his response was that they didn’t have the funds to do so, they could only afford to change the outdoor unit. I was never informed that we needed a larger unit anywhere, nor that we needed to replace the entire system. And we didn’t have the funds because he never told us what he was installing was sufficient and that our $8000 grant would cover it.After checking and sealing existing ducting in C.E. section to be sure customer was getting proper air flow, we found numerous leaks in the ducting, both supply and returns, which we did repair at an additional cost. Which we were told they would fix as part of the original quote.We have spent many unpaid hours both late nights and weekends trying to satisfy the needs of this church only to find that there is nothing we do that will please them. The unpaid hours were because the installation wasn’t working properly, and we shouldn’t have to pay for something that they didn’t do correctly. Evidently these units shouldn’t have been put in at all as they aren’t doing anything our old ones weren’t already doing. And that’s the whole point...they sold us units that we were told would save us money on heat and cooling bills, and they aren’t...in fact, costing us more. They have done nothing to “please” us because it has done nothing to improve our costs for heating and cooling. Don’t be putting the blame on us that we’re somehow un-pleaseable. We would be very pleased if you had put units in that would have cooled and heated the centers as we were told would happen by these new units. The church also approached us this summer (July 24th, 2015) for another quote to install the ductless systems that we recommended during the first quote, however they didn’t qualify for another grant at this time. We asked for the quote for ductless because the unit they installed isn’t doing anything for us...a complete waste of the grant money we did receive.We deeply regret that we have not been able to find a way that would satisfy this church other then what they agreed to by excepting our proposal.We accepted the proposal because we were led to believe these units would be cost efficient for us and they are not. If they weren’t going to do that for us then we should have been told they were inadequate for that purpose. We feel like we were taken advantage of because we had an $8000 grant and he wanted to make a sale for profit. Our problem was that we trusted him at his word. If the information bids had been offered to us as listed above we would have been able to make a better decision about using them. It’s about as much of what he DIDN’T tell us as about what he DID tell us. We’re very disappointed that we were led to believe that these units would save us on heating/cooling costs and have not, and are now finding out that they are adequate units to do what we intended they do.
Regards,
[redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that the response would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
[Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.] The units that were installed are neither efficient nor sufficient for our needs, even after being told they would. If the budget constraints we had were not able to purchase units that were efficient and sufficient we would not have purchased them. Our whole goal was to save on our heating costs, and we were sold units that not only don't save us on heating costs but are costing us more than the old units that were replaced. We have recently replaced our boiler system with a new, highly efficient unit because the heat pump unit that was replaced isn't nearly sufficient enough to heat our sanctuary. It was a total waste of grant monies that were given to our church, and now we're having to raise funds to replace the CE unit that he convinced us would save us on heating costs.
Regards,
[redacted]
We quoted the replacement units to this church after giving them several options that would have been more adequate and energy efficient then what they purchased from us based on what they could afford. 1. Replacing entire systems (with air-handlers, coils, and outdoor...
units) including an additional system in the front of the sanctuary. 2. Replacing with ductless systems. 3. Replacing outdoor units only with the heat pumps and added a resistance electric bank to sanctuary air-handler (this was the least expensive and only affordable option for their church). These units (heat pumps) were only outdoor replacements using the existing indoor air-handlers. The sanctuary was a 5 Ton a/c only that was replaced with a 5 Ton heat pump which was the largest single size available using the existing air-handler and ducting. This unit sits at the back of the sanctuary, we explained to their pastor prior to the final sale that there was no way to add ducting to the front of the sanctuary, due to the open concept, and that it would be better to install a ductless Fujitsu system. The Fujitsu ductless would be more efficient and make the entire sanctuary comfortable in both winter and summer. The C.E. section was a heat pump replacement due to a bad compressor. We were informed that systems cooled well during summer months and seemed to be working fine, the complaints didn’t start until the winter months. After October we received numerous calls about the sanctuary not heating well, upon arriving each time we found that the thermostat programs had been changed by someone from the church. After reprogramming the thermostat, the system worked well, and we informed them that changing the programs would not allow the system to function properly. These calls were done at no charge under our 1-year labor warranty. Sometime in December 2014 we followed up on a call for the heat pump in the C.E. section. After checking the system, we found that the system was working at its fullest capacity. Numerous times checking customer complaints during heating season at no charge while finding that the systems were in fact working at full capacity, (proper Freon charge, amperage draw, and back up heaters working). If this system in fact isn’t large enough now, then it wasn’t big enough when we changed out the outdoor unit with a direct replacement using the same indoor existing electric air-handler, which we didn’t change, due to their budget restraints. The pastor did mention during the quoting process that the C.E. section seemed to have trouble keeping up but assumed it was due to the compressor issues. At that time, we informed him that to install a larger outdoor unit we would have to change out the entire system including a larger matching indoor unit and coil, his response was that they didn’t have the funds to do so, they could only afford to change the outdoor unit. After checking and sealing existing ducting in C.E. section to be sure customer was getting proper air flow, we found numerous leaks in the ducting, both supply and returns, which we did repair at an additional cost. We have spent many unpaid hours both late nights and weekends trying to satisfy the needs of this church only to find that there is nothing we do that will please them. The church also approached us this summer (July 24th, 2015) for another quote to install the ductless systems that we recommended during the first quote, however they didn’t qualify for another grant at this time. We deeply regret that we have not been able to find a way that would satisfy this church other then what they agreed to by excepting our proposal.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that the response would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.]I've attached a response to his response. Bottom line is that he sold us units that are not adequate but had indicated they would be adequate and efficient. They are not.
Regards,
[redacted]
We quoted the replacement units to this church after giving them several options that would have been more adequate and energy efficient then what they purchased from us based on what they could afford. 1. Replacing entire systems (with air-handlers, coils, and outdoor units) including an additional system in the front of the sanctuary. News to us that this was offered as an option. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I had only talked with the pastor of the church, he relayed all correspondence to the board members and I have no idea what he told them. This was odd that the board members were not present at any of our discussions. In fact, I had never spoken with any of the board members. These options were verbal conversations between the pastor and myself until he informed me of their only affordable option, it was only then when I was asked to write the quote. 2. Replacing with ductless systems. News to us that this was offered as an option. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The pastor knows full well that this was an option that we had discussed. · I have done HVAC for many area churches including retrofits and new construction, with great satisfaction by the churches. However, this is the only time that I haven’t had at least 1 board member present during a project of this caliber. 3. Replacing outdoor units only with the heat pumps and added a resistance electric bank to sanctuary air-handler (this was the least expensive and only affordable option for their church). We asked what could be done to make our sanctuary and CE centers more heat efficient, not what we could afford, though we let him know that we had an $8,000 grant to purchase more efficient units. But if the units weren’t going to save us finances on our monthly bills we wouldn’t have had them replaced. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · Again, the pastor told me that replacement was the only option that they could afford and the compressor was out on the sanctuary A/C unit and needed replaced. This is why we were called out to begin with. · The pastor began then to ask for other options and I then offered several including what they settled with. These units (heat pumps) were only outdoor replacements using the existing indoor air-handlers. Which he inferred would be more efficient than the present units. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I never inferred that these units would be more efficient, only that they were rated at 13SEER compared to the 10SEER rating of the old units, however to get the full efficiency the entire systems should be replaced, including the air-handlers. The sanctuary was a 5 Ton a/c only that was replaced with a 5 Ton heat pump which was the largest single size available using the existing air-handler and ducting. We were never told that the air handler was an issue, only that the unit he suggested we put in would be more efficient. He let us believe that the present ducting would be sufficient to cool the sanctuary, and that the heating would do the same. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The pastor’s response is totally untrue, I had thoroughly discussed how these systems functioned and how they would not reach their full efficiency without proper ducting to reach the front of the sanctuary. · I informed the pastor that the present system was originally sized for the room size and didn’t take in account the occupancy load. · This is when I had suggested the Mini-split systems at the front of the sanctuary. This unit sits at the back of the sanctuary, we explained to their pastor prior to the final sale that there was no way to add ducting to the front of the sanctuary, due to the open concept, and that it would be better to install a ductless Fujitsu system. I don’t recall such an explanation. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I am quite sure if the pastor honestly thinks back to our conversations, he will recall this explanation. The Fujitsu ductless would be more efficient and make the entire sanctuary comfortable in both winter and summer. He explained after the 5-ton unit was installed that we would need the ductless systems to cool and heat the sanctuary. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I never wrote the proposal until all options were discussed. The C.E. section was a heat pump replacement due to a bad compressor. The compressor wasn’t bad on old unit, he said it was probably the exchanger, and that a new unit would heat and cool the CE unit efficiently. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · This system was running continuously with high amperages and high head pressures, not cooling well, which indicates that the compressor is all but done for. We were informed that systems cooled well during summer months and seemed to be working fine, the complaints didn’t start until the winter months. We complained that it wasn’t cooling any better in the Summer than the old one but it was a fairly mild Summer, and that’s when he told us we needed two new ductless units to cool it off properly. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · This is another false statement from the pastor. I had spoken with him on numerous occasions during the summer and early fall when he informed not only me but also my employees how well the systems were working. · The church seemed to be very satisfied at that time. After October we received numerous calls about the sanctuary not heating well, upon arriving each time we found that the thermostat programs had been changed by someone from the church. The thermostats were never changed by anyone in the church, and we had him come out and he re-programed it. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · On several occasions (at least 3 times that fall if not more) when I or one of my employees showed up in response to a call we would find that the thermostat’s programs were not where they were originally set to. · This happened up through November of that year. After reprogramming the thermostat, the system worked well, and we informed them that changing the programs would not allow the system to function properly. Don’t recall that being said to me. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · HONESTLY!!!? · I am having a hard time with this memory issue from a church pastor. These calls were done at no charge under our 1-year labor warranty. Sometime in December 2014 we followed up on a call for the heat pump in the C.E. section. After checking the system, we found that the system was working at its fullest capacity. Numerous times checking customer complaints during heating season at no charge while finding that the systems were in fact working at full capacity, (proper Freon charge, amperage draw, and back up heaters working). They also had promised to re-work the duct work when replacing the CE unit, which they didn’t do until the 2nd or 3rd time they came out. Evidently one of their men broke a 2x4 supporting the duct work, and so they duct-taped it. But it kept leaking air and came out and did more duct work, and charged us another $600+ for work they didn’t do right the first two times. Finally got them to redo the duct work. They tested the system to see if air flow was correct and heating properly, and they said it was. But the heat pump unit kept running all the time, causing our heat costs to jump $20-30 per month from the years before with the old heat pump. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · I never promised or quoted redoing the ducting in the CE system. · Only began to look at this ducting because the pastor said they were not getting any airflow, which goes back to the original system. We only changed the outdoor unit which has nothing to do with an airflow issue. If there is an airflow issue it was preexistent because we never changed anything inside the building · The pastor originally told me that the indoor system worked fine which obviously wasn’t a true assessment by the pastor. If this system in fact isn’t large enough now, then it wasn’t big enough when we changed out the outdoor unit with a direct replacement using the same indoor existing electric air-handler, which we didn’t change, due to their budget restraints. No, we were told this unit would be sufficient and efficient with the old handler. The exchanger wasn’t changed because he never told us it needed to, but that the old one was sufficient and had no leaks. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · No, the pastor told me during our assessment that this system was not cooling or heating as well as it had in the past. This is when we check the performance of the outdoor unit and found that the amperage and pressures were running high (at maximum). · This is where we informed the pastor that the performance was probably a compressor issue if the system in fact had previously performed better. · At that time the pastor asked if we could change out the outdoor unit on CE and if that would help. I told him we could if in fact it did keep up before. The pastor did mention during the quoting process that the C.E. section seemed to have trouble keeping up but assumed it was due to the compressor issues. I’m not the heat/a/c man, how would I know if it was a compressor issue? All I knew was that the unit keeps running even after it reaches the heat level reading on the thermostat. So they replaced the thermostat, and it didn’t do any good. The repairman tested heat in CE unit and it was coming out over 100 degrees but it wasn’t shutting the heat or a/c unit off. He put a thermometer in several places and it was reading 76 degrees but the unit still wasn’t shutting off. They haven’t been back out since. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The heat pump is creating 100 degrees of heat and putting out 76 degrees from the supplies which is sufficient for the system. At that time, we informed him that to install a larger outdoor unit we would have to change out the entire system including a larger matching indoor unit and coil, his response was that they didn’t have the funds to do so, they could only afford to change the outdoor unit. I was never informed that we needed a larger unit anywhere, nor that we needed to replace the entire system. And we didn’t have the funds because he never told us what he was installing was sufficient and that our $8000 grant would cover it. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · Through all of the discussions with the pastor of the best options, he always referred back that they were limited on their funding. I as the contractor explained all the options for the highest efficiencies and long term cost savings. Had he listened to my recommendations and waited on the proper funding we would not be having this disagreement now. · I believe he sold the board members on his opinion, trying to save the church money on a short term. After checking and sealing existing ducting in C.E. section to be sure customer was getting proper air flow, we found numerous leaks in the ducting, both supply and returns, which we did repair at an additional cost. Which we were told they would fix as part of the original quote. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · This was not part of our quote nor implied to be part of the scope of the project. We have spent many unpaid hours both late nights and weekends trying to satisfy the needs of this church only to find that there is nothing we do that will please them. The unpaid hours were because the installation wasn’t working properly, and we shouldn’t have to pay for something that they didn’t do correctly. Evidently these units shouldn’t have been put in at all as they aren’t doing anything our old ones weren’t already doing. And that’s the whole point…they sold us units that we were told would save us money on heat and cooling bills, and they aren’t…in fact, costing us more. They have done nothing to “please” us because it has done nothing to improve our costs for heating and cooling. Don’t be putting the blame on us that we’re somehow un-please able. We would be very pleased if you had put units in that would have cooled and heated the centers as we were told would happen by these new units. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The installation was done correctly and professionally; systems were running at specified levels of performance. · The sanctuary unit was replaced because the compressor was burnt out and was an A/C only unit at that time. · The un-please able part comes back to the fact the pastor didn’t follow my recommendations as a contractor. I still believe he sold the board members on the lowest cost system and not on my recommendations which would have saved them money on the long term. The church also approached us this summer (July 24th, 2015) for another quote to install the ductless systems that we recommended during the first quote, however they didn’t qualify for another grant at this time. We asked for the quote for ductless because the unit they installed isn’t doing anything for us…a complete waste of the grant money we did receive. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · The cheapest options are never the best, had he and the board members followed my recommendations they could have had the ductless systems installed from the beginning and be enjoying the comfort and savings. · I cannot force customers to buy the best systems, I can only offer the best options and allow them to make their own educated decisions after discussing my recommendation. We deeply regret that we have not been able to find a way that would satisfy this church other then what they agreed to by excepting our proposal. We accepted the proposal because we were led to believe these units would be cost efficient for us and they are not. If they weren’t going to do that for us, then we should have been told they were inadequate for that purpose. We feel like we were taken advantage of because we had an $8000 grant and he wanted to make a sale for profit. Our problem was that we trusted him at his word. If the information bids had been offered to us as listed above we would have been able to make a better decision about using them. It’s about as much of what he DIDN’T tell us as about what he DID tell us. We’re very disappointed that we were led to believe that these units would save us on heating/cooling costs and have not, and are now finding out that they are adequate units to do what we intended they do. (Second response) March 10, 2016 · They chose the least efficient system by their own choice. · They took advantage of themselves by not following my recommendations. · I have kept my word and installed the systems they chose to purchase. · The pastor was very well informed, the only ones that may not have been informed is the board members and I do not know what information the pastor relayed to them. · I never lead anyone to believe anything that was not true or failed to preform what I said I would do. · I do not and will not take advantage of my customers, especially a church. · I have built this business by 99 percent word of mouth and I am not willing to compromise it now! I have been and always will be straight forward when working with my customers. · I have worked with many churches in our community with a 100 percent success rate. I can also have them give their referral for the work I’ve done for them, the scope and performance of the work.