France Propane Service, Inc.

***, We take great pride in always giving exceptional service and treating the customer fairly, and therefore take this matter seriouslyThere seems to be two issues price per gallon, and amount delivered, I responded to both inquiries without a reply and am concerned that a complaint was
filedIn regard to price, after the winter we experienced last year, most reputable propane marketers contracted propane for this winter to guarantee propane supply at a reasonable price without high price spikesThis past summer because of political and other issues the price of crude and propane has fallen but we are obligated to honor those contracts which means our price will be higher than a marketer who did not prepare for the futureThe low price that *** stated also is for a customer owned tank without any service amenities that we provide with a leased tankThe issue of the gauge reading was explained in my reply regarding volume expansion and contraction in relationship to temperatureI recommend *** visit *** for a more detailed explanationIf that does not help we will pump out the gallons of gas and when the tank is empty she can get a tank from the other propane provider she referred, or we can pump out all the gas refund the difference with the price she paid for that gas at the March deliveryWe are confident the delivery is accurate, that is a very easy tank to switch and if she feels more confident with a different provider we will remove our tankBest Regards *** ***

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
1. I re-request _written permission on letterhead with owner(s) signatures_ from  France Propane to have propane delivered from another propane company of my choosing.
I've prepaid the France lease amount through October 2015.
I've paid their high-priced propane (250 gallons) in March 2014 (payment was on day of delivery).
I still need to be released from any obligation to use France as supplier until such time as another tank can be put in place.
2. I request removal of as much of the propane (I won’t say 250 gallons, because I do not believe that is what delivered) that was delivered on 12/29/14 and a full cancelation of that associated bill at 1.499 per gallon.
The business is purposefully drawing this out, in my opinion, and it is possible their delayed response with the associated frigid temperatures has caused depletion of the 20% tank fill I had prior to any delivery on 12/29.
3. At absolutely no point was I told that a 300 gallon delivery would cause a decrease in price from France. I feel I am being lied to now, or that I was lied to when I attempted twice before during December to receive information by phone from France Propane employees. I spoke with [redacted] at length, and he kept talking about the history of the tank, never mentioning 300 gallons being the point at which he could offer a better price.
4. I would appreciate an immediate response, there seem to be an unnecessary amount of delays being caused by this owner, [redacted]. This company states they are interested in providing customer service. It is not a service to any customer, ever, to not reply for six days!

We delivered gas for the amount, price, and on the date that we said we would ahead of time.   We also provided a link that explains propane volume and temperature correction.  If Ms. [redacted] would like to switch to a different company there are multiple options that she can choose from and we will credit her for the gas remaining in the tank and lease at that time.  If another competitor is quoting a price they should also be able to deliver it (tanks can be set year round).   The low price that she is referencing typically comes with other conditions such as: 300 gallon minimum delivery, must be paid within 10 days, and the tank must be customer owned or involves a high lease amount as mentioned earlier.  This delivery was for 250 gallons.We feel that we have been more than fair in this situation but in an effort to help resolve things we would offer to credit Ms. [redacted] $50 with the condition that we can pick up our tank by 4/1/15 and that the tank be empty.I will be out of the office the remainder of the week but if Ms. [redacted] has any questions she can contact [redacted] at ###-###-####.[redacted]

Review: Energy assistance sent France Propane $550.00 which we requested (to energy assistance) to be moved to an account we opened at [redacted] Propane. We plan on switching to [redacted] and purchasing our own tank when weather permits. We are tired of dealing with France Propane and recently when asking them to match a competitors price, they said our lease agreement would go up to over $100 because "they would match that also". This is just one example of a number of horrible experiences we have had with [redacted]. I just spoke with him today, and he said when he picks up his tank he will move the money! We have a paid our "lease agreement" with France propane that ends sometime in September! That tank can legally sit on our property until we tell him to pick it up, or until the lease is up! He refuses to move the money to our open [redacted] account we have, and according to energy services [redacted] told them that we had our tank filled with [redacted], which is NOT THE CASE! We opened an empty account with them as a placeholder for when we purchase our 1000 gallon tank and purchase 800 gallons of gas from [redacted]! We DO NOT trust France Propane and want this moved to [redacted] immediately.Desired Settlement: We want the money MOVED to the [redacted] account immediately. This was supposed to happen months ago and we thought it was done, but recently received a statement from France showing this credit! We paid up our lease agreement with France so I will call him when he can pickup his tank! He is holding this money hostage "until we have [redacted]'s tank in place" which he has no right to do. We do not trust France Propane and want this money moved to our [redacted] account immediately, and France is NOT allowed on our property (unless they notify myself and I can be there when they check the level currently in the tank). If they go on our property without my approval they will be treated as trespassers. [redacted] - MOVE THE MONEY.

Business

Response:

We have no intention of holding the money received through fuel assistance for non-valid reasons. We spoke with the state and they said this the appropriate way to handle the situation. Due to container laws, companies can only fill their own tank. Since it was emergency funding if they did need propane we would have the funds to deliver. The company owning the tank on premises is the company that should have the funds to deliver if/when required. The state said you can only have one energy provider at a time.

[redacted] called and demanded that we match a competitors price, which we said we could do but the price match would also require matching other terms including lease/ownership requirements, min. delivery amount, etc.

Tanks can be installed year round, therefore there should not be a delay for Mr. [redacted] to get a tank from a new supplier. If it is urgent to him we suggest he schedules a tank installation with his new supplier. We can have our tank picked up as soon as next week.

Our tank lease can be terminated by either party at any time.

We certainly want to cooperate with Mr. [redacted] to get the funds transferred to his new supplier, but it needs to done according to the State's guidelines referenced earlier in this email.

Please contact us at any questions at time. We apologize for the delayed response, we were not aware of the first notice.

Business

Response:

Below is an email from the Department of Energy Services explaining how crisis benefits should be handled. This is consistent with how we have offered to resolve the situation.

Hi [redacted]-

Per our conversation, here is our policy that states how crisis benefits should be handled depending on different situations. The credit balance from the crisis benefit of $550.00 issued to the [redacted] household in Feb 2014 may be forwarded on to [redacted] Propane once the household has determined an account with [redacted] Propane, has a new LP tank (either their own tank or leased from [redacted]), and you have your tank removed from their property. Our WHEAP Policy manual is located at the url below. Please let me know if you need any further assistance.

Sincerely,

7.8.2 Crisis Benefits

1) If a recipient retains the same supplier with an active account; the credit balance remains with the supplier until exhausted.

2) If the account becomes inactive, a reasonable effort must be made to contact the applicant and/or the local WHEAP agency to identify the new fuel provider and transfer the credit to the new supplier.

3) If a new fuel provider cannot be identified, the funds should be refunded to the Division.

4) If the customer/applicant cannot be located the funds should be refunded to the Division.

5) If a customer moves out of state, the credit balance must be refunded to the Division.

6) If a credit balance remains for a deceased applicant and the account is closed, the balance must be refunded to the Division.

110 WHEAP Program and Operations Manual Revised: August 2013

Consumer

Response:

Review: I called France propane this morning to receive propane, I was only in need of 100 gallons since I am moving out of my rental property and only need enough for the next 2 weeks. I was told that their minimum fill is 250 galls. I have received 100 gallon before with no hassel. [redacted]) told me that if I wanted to get filled today it would have to be 250 gallons and I would then have to contact my land lord for a refund on the unused propane. Before I made a decission I contacted my land lord and informed him of the situation. He then relayed to me that they cannot do that and to call them back. I called them back and again talked to [redacted], she then informed me that they would work with me and give me the requested 100 gallons but only with a 50 dollar delivery charge. Shortly later she bumped the charge from 50 to 75. I was upset but moved on and had no choice because I need heat. I then called my fiance and informed her of all this and she did not agree with the charge and neither did I since for the last six months there has never been a delivery charge. My fiance ([redacted]) called and talked to [redacted], during the conversation [redacted] said she has a friend that has service through france propane and they never get charged a deliver fee either. [redacted] responded back with "that is them this is you" which I find to be very offensive and wrong that they can pick and choose who they deliver to. [redacted] was also told that if it snows they will no longer deliver propane. [redacted] was told that if we give her company a bad review or negative feedback that she will charge us "100 wait no I will charge 150 dollars for a delivery fee" I find this to be a very poor bussiness practice to threaten customers with a higher charge when ever they feel like it. I dont have a problem paying a delivery charge if we are properly notified and it is on a consitant basis. As of right now I do not have heat in my house and I have 5 children and I am not positive when exactly I will actually receive the propane.Desired Settlement: I beleive the bussines should responsably inform their customer of their charges. Fix the customer service issues and not be able to charge whatever they want to whomever they want

Business

Response:

Mr. [redacted], In response to the complaint of Mr. [redacted] I would like to explain the events of our business relationship. An account was opened October 17, 2013, we made a $379.80 delivery that was paid by check. This check was returned to us by the bank because their account lacked the funds to cover the check. They made a $50.00 payment on November 8,2013, a payment of $40.00 on December 10, 2013, and a final payment on January 3, 2014. A delivery was made on January 2, 2014 and that was paid by check which was good. They required another delivery on February 10, 2014 and said it would be paid on February 28, 2014. On February 28,2014 they said they could not make the payment and they were in the process of getting fuel assistance, as a courtesy we delivered $197.52 worth of gas because they were out and we had very cold conditions, they paid for the February commitment on March 10,2014. We schedule our deliveries three days in advance and because of the unprecedented winter we are experiencing there is very little room to modify our routes. Today Mr. [redacted] called and requested a fill of gas, he was told all drivers were scheduled and there were no deliveries scheduled in their area today, if they needed gas today we would have to pull a truck from another area and there would be a $50.00 special delivery charge. Our minimum fill on a special delivery is 250 gallons, since their tank will not hold 250 gallons it would be 200 gallons, he then said he was moving and only wanted a 100 gallons, there is very little margin in a 100 gallon delivery and next to none on a special delivery, therefore he was told the special delivery charge would be $75.00 for 100 gallons. As a note most companies charge $150.00 to $200.00 on a special delivery and [redacted] thought they would understand it was a fair charge since we would have a special trip of over 30 miles one way. Mr [redacted] authorized a 100 gallon special delivery with a $75.00 trip charge, later his girl friend called and said they could wait, they did not want to pay a special trip charge. We refunded the special trip charge and they are scheduled for a delivery tomorrow, if we do not have weather related emergency road conditions. I know this is a long explanation, but this has been a very difficult year, we have tried to work with everyone asking for help, but if they are not honest with us more than once a we must evaluate that account with special attention, unfortunately our gestures to help them this year was not appreciated. The cause of the complaint was the special trip charge which was refunded since there will not be a special trip, and the delivery will be made before the normal three day schedule, therefore I hope the issue is resolved, Best regards, [redacted]

Review: I requested 250 gallons propane to be delivered. I received information from propane professionals regarding what the tank gage should read after delivery. I did not see the results I was told I should see for a 500 gallon tank. I took before-and-after pictures of the tank gage and had the one appliance that uses propane off before, during, and after delivery until I could take a picture.

I am receiving information from France Propane that contradicts what other propane professionals are stating.

France is stating I should _not_ have seen a 50% increase with a 250 gallon delivery in a 500 gallon tank because of the temperature. Again, this is contrary to what other propane deliverers (including one of their employees, in March of 2014) are stating and what I have experienced with other propane deliveries in other propane tanks (those tanks not being owned by France Propane, as this one is).Desired Settlement: With all due respect, France is over-pricing their propane as it is. I'm being charged $1.499 per gallon when their competitor is charging $1.08 per gallon so I feel particularly concerned with any shortage as you can imagine!

I am confident I did not receive 250 gallons of propane. Whether there was a simple mistake or intentional I cannot say. I have watched that gage since March 2014 through many temperature changes, and it does not adjust. I have not used the one appliance that uses propane during the summer months, and into cooler months, and again the tank gage did not show percentage increases / decreases due to outside temperature. France's emailed explanation of why the gage did not increase after delivery is in quotes below:

"Propane expands and contracts with temperature that is why when delivered it is temperature corrected to 60 degrees Fahrenheit, therefore if it was 60 outside you would see a 50 percent increase, since it was about 5 this morning the gas was shrunk if it would be 60 tomorrow the gas would expand and you would see a 50 % increase, you definitely received250 gallons, Best Regards, [redacted]."

I understand tanks cannot be filled to 100% to allow for expansion of the gas during warmer temp.s, but at no time have I ever experienced that during an 11 degree F day 250 gallons would show less than 40% increase in volume in the tank. For a 80% fill on a 500 gallon tank, that would be 400 gallons. 250 gallons into 400 should mean a 62.5% fill during warm months when the gas is at its fullest expansion (and that never occurred this past summer).

Today I again called a different propane distributer and verified the gage should show 50% for a 250 gallon amount in a 500 gallon tank. At no time has any reseach I've done had a mention of during cold weather the gage will not increase. I have always noted during research the expanded gas needing room, thus only up to 80% fill on tanks.

Ironically, one of the reasons [redacted] provided to me by phone on why I had to pay their highest cost per gallon of propane was because I was not receiving a full tank fill. I had 20% in that tank to begin with... now I wonder, had I agreed to a "full tank fill" was 80% going to show on the gage, and a charge of 500 gallons delivered???

Business

Response:

[redacted], We take great pride in always giving exceptional service and treating the customer fairly, and therefore take this matter seriously. There seems to be two issues price per gallon, and amount delivered, I responded to both inquiries without a reply and am concerned that a complaint was filed. In regard to price, after the winter we experienced last year, most reputable propane marketers contracted propane for this winter to guarantee propane supply at a reasonable price without high price spikes. This past summer because of political and other issues the price of crude and propane has fallen but we are obligated to honor those contracts which means our price will be higher than a marketer who did not prepare for the future. The low price that [redacted] stated also is for a customer owned tank without any service amenities that we provide with a leased tank. The issue of the gauge reading was explained in my reply regarding volume expansion and contraction in relationship to temperature. I recommend [redacted] visit [redacted] for a more detailed explanation. If that does not help we will pump out the 250 gallons of gas and when the tank is empty she can get a tank from the other propane provider she referred, or we can pump out all the gas refund the difference with the price she paid for that gas at the March 2014 delivery. We are confident the delivery is accurate, that is a very easy tank to switch and if she feels more confident with a different provider we will remove our tank. Best Regards [redacted]

Business

Response: