Furs By Fredrerick Gelb

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

 Most of [redacted]'s response is completely false. I will only address those statements for which I have irrefutable proof. I have a written contract stating the style I ordered ( a tuxedo front ). I never changed this style, however, this is not the style that was made for me. Yes, I agreed to delivery of the coat in January  because [redacted] assured me that I misunderstood when I told him the coat was the wrong style. Upon reviewing my contract and proving him wrong, he had no choice but to take the coat back. I returned it shortly after the January delivery as I hoped to get it back to wear during the winter of 2014. To this day, the coat has never been worn outside of the showroom.A "special made to measure pattern" was never made. In fact at some point [redacted] said we should have made a pattern and he would have charged me an additional $500.00.
 The garments that were picked up on 5/**/15 for storage were my 2 old coats, as my new coat was already in [redacted]'s possession. I have the pickup receipt to prove this.
 
 
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

 My contract states an order for a coat made for me with my measurements taken meticulously by Lynn. That is not the same as altering an existing coat to attempt to make it fit.[redacted] cannot prove any of his statements. However, I can prove that my coat is shorter in the center of the back and I welcome the opportunity to show this to you.
 
 
 
In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.
Sincerely,
[redacted]

[redacted] . The following is in response to [redacted] completely false Complaint about the service our company...

provided to her. A very important detailed explanation, that you must read will follow: In short, before the actual full response to [redacted] paragraph: The shoulder area was purposely made larger, as [redacted] was pre-told and re-explained to, in order to properly alter down to fit her curved back. [redacted] was told that by: myself, Lynn our designer, Harry-our top craftsman, Rita-our head finisher. The twelve weeks until delivery, instead of the normal six to eight weeks- were due to [redacted] Entirely Changing the pattern and style of the garment she ordered. The garment was delivered the finished garment to [redacted] on January *, 2015.-not on October **, 2015. [redacted] wore the garment for the rest of the winter and then stored the garment in our refrigerated vaults for the spring and summer on policy # [redacted]. The garments were picked up on 5-**-15 for summer storage. We delivered her remodeled coat, and her two other pieces, on October **, 2015 after storing them. That is not when the work was finished, as she claimed. Her misrepresentation of the production time period alone, speaks to the complete defamation falsehood of her claims. The Revdex.com is an important organization that not only protects consumers, but, it must also protect businesses from entirely false claims, Our modern media world enables manipulations, claiming complete falsehoods from both positive and negative directions.. Once it is printed, it is taken as truth. So, in this case, which is a complete falsehood that defames our reputation, I am asking you to carefully read this longer response: FULL RESPONSE TO [redacted] FALSE CLAIM [redacted] came to our premises on September **, 2014 to “see if we could remodel her old ranch mink coat into a fur lined all weather stroller”. I showed her the many examples of what we do. With modesty, but factually- we are one of the two largest couture furriers in the New York fur district. Unlike other furriers, we do all of the remodeling and the actual fabric outer shell work “in house”. All of the other companies have to give out this highly specialized craft work to the two specialty fur lined fabric remodel contractors. Therefore, within a broad circle of women we are recommended for our abilities, experience ,and professional expertise. [redacted] returned with her garment and chose a style to be made to measure on October *, 2014. [redacted] is not any easy fit due to her very rounded back and small shoulders. She is also more rounded on one side, and other shoulder is much lower. This is a fitting situation, that over the last forty years, that I have dealt with hundreds of times. It is common,and happens to some people as they get older. When making a remodeled fur lined garment which has three layers, the best way to fit the garment is: to make the initial remodel for a fitting with this curvature accounted for. It is more work, but the most professional way to fit this situation, is to add additional material in these specific areas that can then be pinned/marked and fitted- to the specific individual’s body. It is very similar in concept to how a sculptor gradually chisels marble. I spent a significant amount of time being up front with [redacted] as to this method. She clearly said ”Good”-that she was well aware of her physical fit problems”, But, warned me that she was very picky-that’s why she went to furriers to check them out before she came to me.” I was not concerned Because I have been fortunate to have built a large successful business by making customers who have fitting problems very happy- and then recommending me. We made a special made to measure pattern for [redacted] with an allowance across the back and shoulders. We then took her coat apart, reworked it into the new pattern and made the outside special black all weather fabric shell that she had chosen. [redacted] came in for her fitting, and when we put the basted, not sewn garment on her, she became very upset about it being too big. My pattern maker/ designer Lynn and I immediately told her, “that this was done on purpose as as we had explicitly discussed with her”. We tried to show her that as we were pinning the garment that it would turn out excellent. I cut small thicknesses of lambswool that we placed on her less rounded back area and on her lower shoulder- to show her that in addition to fitting her body- we would be able to have it look perfectly symmetrical. That is the true art of my craft. I will now say that after doing all this work, and having so thoroughly explained the necessary multiple step method, to achieve a wonderful fit- and then getting this seemingly irrational reaction: that ---we realized that we had a problem situation. I told [redacted] that we would go out of our way to make her “comfortable”…. …That I would do something very special in the fitting the following week. .. I would open up the basted seams of the entire shoulder area, so they would be open flaps. that we would then wrap them up to her front and back, meeting at the shoulder. We would then pin an exact center shoulder line. We would remove the sleeves and then pin them on to the exact spot of the Shoulder cap.. This is the fitting method for three thousand dollar men’s suits at a London Saville Row tailor.!! This was actually unnecessary, and is never done in the fur business. I realized that I had one of those very difficult customers that you get every five to ten years…. that can become a “never ending situation”. We did the fitting and [redacted] insisted on making the garment highly fitted, close to her body which we succinctly told her was a mistake both fashion and fit wise. [redacted] told us that she had a weekly Mah Jong game nearby on Mondays. Whenever I do certain detailed work, I will call out the specific craftspeople to actually see the alteration or nuance on the customer. It is a tremendous advantage. However, I specifically told [redacted] that our factory people who begin work at 7-7:30 AM take their lunch between 12-1:00PM. She would call, but still constantly come in between noon and one o”clock. She continued to show up, saying we would have to accommodate her. It made her visits difficult. We again completely changed the garment, and we all felt that it fit rather well- In particular with our crafting strategically placed lambswool padding. [redacted] then stated that we had made the garment all wrong!!. She said that it was supposed to be a center closing-that is center edge to edge with a turn back tuxedo! [redacted] had specifically ordered the style #[redacted].-our best selling pattern. It is a normal garment where one of the sides overlaps the other. This type of a style doesn’t keep you warm. It is not the style she tried on. Nor did she try on anything that looked like it. Of the two hundred styles in our Showroom, we have only One center closing turnback tuxedo style from several years ago. It remains in our vault. Originally, we discussed that she would have an inside facing that would be as wide as possible without creating a bulge. The actual order write up says 6”-total showing down the fronts- It is attractive when the garment is hanging open. That would be 3” each side including the extended hair. A normal facing is 1.5 to 2” per side. That is three to four inches that would show down the front, when fully open. We gave her the three inches she requested which is six inches totally. No woman would ever want a six inch facing on each side which would be a stripe twelve inches! across down her front. Not only would it make you look bulky, but, it would be ridiculous to try and then overlay four layers of fur thus creating a huge bulge down your middle body. We refinished the front tuxedo adding stiffening so it would turn back. We took in the sides even more so the garment didn’t look boxy. We added a full set of center closing hooks and eyes. Although we veritably had to make the garment twice, it came out well Though I would not have recommended it for [redacted] physicality. I actually showed the garment to a tall larger woman and we used the Idea to remodel her older garment. So, I have to say that [redacted] has no right to make any claim about anything we did. I am sorry and at this point do not understand what she is upset about or what more can be done. I am trying to be polite, since my staff and myself are actually deeply offended at the misrepresentation and defamation of our character, work ethic, professionalism and beyond the realm of rational dealings. We certainly actually lost money because of all the re-workings of this coat. We reconfigured it to a center closing garment. [redacted] claimed that we didn’t return all her fur. She said, that I owed her for her time and would accept free storage and cleaning on two other garments that she owned. So, to retain my good name, I gave her a matching full wrap mink scarf that retails for $750.-and I agreed to pick up and store her two other garments for free! A copy of this bill is available. Please make no mistake about it, the garment given her re-creation fashion concepts and her physicality was excellent. I simply wanted to extricate myself from a situation that at this point had no rational. In early October, two weeks before we were set to deliver [redacted] garments from cold storage-she came to our showroom and insisted on trying on the garment again. We added an additional hook and eye for her. She sat in the coat and tried all the hooks, put up the collar, etc. Now, after forty years of working so hard in my artistic craft to build a very successful, honest business with an incredibly loyal clientele that recommends me.. so we are fortunate to have a busy showroom every day without advertising, ….I, and my staff are deeply hurt and offended and we will defend our company’s reputation and integrity to whatever degree necessary. I would hope that before you publish any listing of complaint or the previously Discredited statement from [redacted] that you consult Furs by Frederick Gelb for Sidney Donald, Ltd. We hope that [redacted] wears her coat in good health. Thank you for the time that you took reading this long, but truthful letter. Respectfully yours, Frederick C. G[redacted], President CC. Alan F[redacted] Flaster and Willis, P.C.

Review: I ordered a mink lined raincoat from Fred Gelb Furs ( made to order with my measurements ) in October 2014. Several weeks later I went for a fitting and the coat they showed me was 3 sizes too big. Months of fittings and alterations followed. The coat was finally delivered to me in October 2015 -- Yes, one year later and badly creased. Needless to say, this experience has been extremely stressful and has caused me many sleepless nights. I strongly recommend you choose another furrier.Desired Settlement: I would like many people to read about my experience dealing with this business.I paid $2,500. I would like a 25% discount.

Business

Response:

[redacted] . The following is in response to [redacted] completely false Complaint about the service our company provided to her. A very important detailed explanation, that you must read will follow: In short, before the actual full response to [redacted] paragraph: The shoulder area was purposely made larger, as [redacted] was pre-told and re-explained to, in order to properly alter down to fit her curved back. [redacted] was told that by: myself, Lynn our designer, Harry-our top craftsman, Rita-our head finisher. The twelve weeks until delivery, instead of the normal six to eight weeks- were due to [redacted] Entirely Changing the pattern and style of the garment she ordered. The garment was delivered the finished garment to [redacted] on January *, 2015.-not on October **, 2015. [redacted] wore the garment for the rest of the winter and then stored the garment in our refrigerated vaults for the spring and summer on policy # [redacted]. The garments were picked up on 5-**-15 for summer storage. We delivered her remodeled coat, and her two other pieces, on October **, 2015 after storing them. That is not when the work was finished, as she claimed. Her misrepresentation of the production time period alone, speaks to the complete defamation falsehood of her claims. The Revdex.com is an important organization that not only protects consumers, but, it must also protect businesses from entirely false claims, Our modern media world enables manipulations, claiming complete falsehoods from both positive and negative directions.. Once it is printed, it is taken as truth. So, in this case, which is a complete falsehood that defames our reputation, I am asking you to carefully read this longer response: FULL RESPONSE TO [redacted] FALSE CLAIM [redacted] came to our premises on September **, 2014 to “see if we could remodel her old ranch mink coat into a fur lined all weather stroller”. I showed her the many examples of what we do. With modesty, but factually- we are one of the two largest couture furriers in the New York fur district. Unlike other furriers, we do all of the remodeling and the actual fabric outer shell work “in house”. All of the other companies have to give out this highly specialized craft work to the two specialty fur lined fabric remodel contractors. Therefore, within a broad circle of women we are recommended for our abilities, experience ,and professional expertise. [redacted] returned with her garment and chose a style to be made to measure on October *, 2014. [redacted] is not any easy fit due to her very rounded back and small shoulders. She is also more rounded on one side, and other shoulder is much lower. This is a fitting situation, that over the last forty years, that I have dealt with hundreds of times. It is common,and happens to some people as they get older. When making a remodeled fur lined garment which has three layers, the best way to fit the garment is: to make the initial remodel for a fitting with this curvature accounted for. It is more work, but the most professional way to fit this situation, is to add additional material in these specific areas that can then be pinned/marked and fitted- to the specific individual’s body. It is very similar in concept to how a sculptor gradually chisels marble. I spent a significant amount of time being up front with [redacted] as to this method. She clearly said ”Good”-that she was well aware of her physical fit problems”, But, warned me that she was very picky-that’s why she went to furriers to check them out before she came to me.” I was not concerned Because I have been fortunate to have built a large successful business by making customers who have fitting problems very happy- and then recommending me. We made a special made to measure pattern for [redacted] with an allowance across the back and shoulders. We then took her coat apart, reworked it into the new pattern and made the outside special black all weather fabric shell that she had chosen. [redacted] came in for her fitting, and when we put the basted, not sewn garment on her, she became very upset about it being too big. My pattern maker/ designer Lynn and I immediately told her, “that this was done on purpose as as we had explicitly discussed with her”. We tried to show her that as we were pinning the garment that it would turn out excellent. I cut small thicknesses of lambswool that we placed on her less rounded back area and on her lower shoulder- to show her that in addition to fitting her body- we would be able to have it look perfectly symmetrical. That is the true art of my craft. I will now say that after doing all this work, and having so thoroughly explained the necessary multiple step method, to achieve a wonderful fit- and then getting this seemingly irrational reaction: that ---we realized that we had a problem situation. I told [redacted] that we would go out of our way to make her “comfortable”…. …That I would do something very special in the fitting the following week. .. I would open up the basted seams of the entire shoulder area, so they would be open flaps. that we would then wrap them up to her front and back, meeting at the shoulder. We would then pin an exact center shoulder line. We would remove the sleeves and then pin them on to the exact spot of the Shoulder cap.. This is the fitting method for three thousand dollar men’s suits at a London Saville Row tailor.!! This was actually unnecessary, and is never done in the fur business. I realized that I had one of those very difficult customers that you get every five to ten years…. that can become a “never ending situation”. We did the fitting and [redacted] insisted on making the garment highly fitted, close to her body which we succinctly told her was a mistake both fashion and fit wise. [redacted] told us that she had a weekly Mah Jong game nearby on Mondays. Whenever I do certain detailed work, I will call out the specific craftspeople to actually see the alteration or nuance on the customer. It is a tremendous advantage. However, I specifically told [redacted] that our factory people who begin work at 7-7:30 AM take their lunch between 12-1:00PM. She would call, but still constantly come in between noon and one o”clock. She continued to show up, saying we would have to accommodate her. It made her visits difficult. We again completely changed the garment, and we all felt that it fit rather well- In particular with our crafting strategically placed lambswool padding. [redacted] then stated that we had made the garment all wrong!!. She said that it was supposed to be a center closing-that is center edge to edge with a turn back tuxedo! [redacted] had specifically ordered the style #[redacted].-our best selling pattern. It is a normal garment where one of the sides overlaps the other. This type of a style doesn’t keep you warm. It is not the style she tried on. Nor did she try on anything that looked like it. Of the two hundred styles in our Showroom, we have only One center closing turnback tuxedo style from several years ago. It remains in our vault. Originally, we discussed that she would have an inside facing that would be as wide as possible without creating a bulge. The actual order write up says 6”-total showing down the fronts- It is attractive when the garment is hanging open. That would be 3” each side including the extended hair. A normal facing is 1.5 to 2” per side. That is three to four inches that would show down the front, when fully open. We gave her the three inches she requested which is six inches totally. No woman would ever want a six inch facing on each side which would be a stripe twelve inches! across down her front. Not only would it make you look bulky, but, it would be ridiculous to try and then overlay four layers of fur thus creating a huge bulge down your middle body. We refinished the front tuxedo adding stiffening so it would turn back. We took in the sides even more so the garment didn’t look boxy. We added a full set of center closing hooks and eyes. Although we veritably had to make the garment twice, it came out well Though I would not have recommended it for [redacted] physicality. I actually showed the garment to a tall larger woman and we used the Idea to remodel her older garment. So, I have to say that [redacted] has no right to make any claim about anything we did. I am sorry and at this point do not understand what she is upset about or what more can be done. I am trying to be polite, since my staff and myself are actually deeply offended at the misrepresentation and defamation of our character, work ethic, professionalism and beyond the realm of rational dealings. We certainly actually lost money because of all the re-workings of this coat. We reconfigured it to a center closing garment. [redacted] claimed that we didn’t return all her fur. She said, that I owed her for her time and would accept free storage and cleaning on two other garments that she owned. So, to retain my good name, I gave her a matching full wrap mink scarf that retails for $750.-and I agreed to pick up and store her two other garments for free! A copy of this bill is available. Please make no mistake about it, the garment given her re-creation fashion concepts and her physicality was excellent. I simply wanted to extricate myself from a situation that at this point had no rational. In early October, two weeks before we were set to deliver [redacted] garments from cold storage-she came to our showroom and insisted on trying on the garment again. We added an additional hook and eye for her. She sat in the coat and tried all the hooks, put up the collar, etc. Now, after forty years of working so hard in my artistic craft to build a very successful, honest business with an incredibly loyal clientele that recommends me.. so we are fortunate to have a busy showroom every day without advertising, ….I, and my staff are deeply hurt and offended and we will defend our company’s reputation and integrity to whatever degree necessary. I would hope that before you publish any listing of complaint or the previously Discredited statement from [redacted] that you consult Furs by Frederick Gelb for Sidney Donald, Ltd. We hope that [redacted] wears her coat in good health. Thank you for the time that you took reading this long, but truthful letter. Respectfully yours, Frederick C. G[redacted], President CC. Alan F[redacted] Flaster and Willis, P.C.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID# [redacted], and have determined that my complaint has NOT been resolved because:

Most of [redacted]'s response is completely false. I will only address those statements for which I have irrefutable proof. I have a written contract stating the style I ordered ( a tuxedo front ). I never changed this style, however, this is not the style that was made for me. Yes, I agreed to delivery of the coat in January because [redacted] assured me that I misunderstood when I told him the coat was the wrong style. Upon reviewing my contract and proving him wrong, he had no choice but to take the coat back. I returned it shortly after the January delivery as I hoped to get it back to wear during the winter of 2014. To this day, the coat has never been worn outside of the showroom.A "special made to measure pattern" was never made. In fact at some point [redacted] said we should have made a pattern and he would have charged me an additional $500.00.

The garments that were picked up on 5/**/15 for storage were my 2 old coats, as my new coat was already in [redacted]'s possession. I have the pickup receipt to prove this.

In order for the Revdex.com to appropriately process your response, you MUST answer the question above.

Sincerely,

Business

Response:

[redacted] statement that I and my staff are liars is an outrageous offense.We were frustratingly patient, turning the other cheek for months withHer accusations. Hopefully this will be the last understandable explanationfor this besmirchment of our reputation, honor and craft. No professional furrier would ever, ever completely finish a total remodel for a first fitting—particularly with a very difficult fit! I will again say, the garment was purposefully made larger in order to be able to sculpt/alterit to accommodate [redacted] very significant fitting problems. The lining wasattached with ONE inch basting stitches. That is not finished. [redacted] wanted a crosscut tuxedo with and extra wide facing. The actualSample piece #[redacted] on our website shows a vertical stripe that is made frommany horizontally running skins. It looks tall very narrow skyscraper with distinct floors. To do this from an old coat, you need to cut the horizontal bottom 7-8” off and thenrun it vertically up and down the front and the facing of each side of the coat.The garment was made 37” long from the center back neck seam to the hem. We needed about 45-7” of a horizontal bottom to make each vertical crosscut tuxedo. This is the back center of the neck around and down the front to the front bottom hem. That is 90” in total length. Left 45” plus Right 45” = Needed 90” [redacted] coat was approximately 62” of sweep at the hem. We needed a piece of fur 90” by 8” This Means that, since she had only 62” of sweep, we had to cut off the entire bottom 62” x 8” of the coat… We therefore had only enough to make one side of the front crosscut, tuxedo and had about 15” of length of the total needed 45” towards the making of the other side- 62 minus 45 = 17Again, after cutting the hem, We were about 28-30” short. SO, we cut horizontal pieces from each of the two sleeves- in order to get the 15” plus 15” equaling 30”. [redacted] sleeves were a semi- blouson style.This means they were narrower at the top and bottom. So we cut from the middle of each sleeve to have a clean not chopped look. We were therefore left with small useless scraps from the top and bottom each sleeve. We used them to replaceSome worn areas so all of the fur used was the best available. Hopefully, the reader can somewhat understand this-- even though you can’t be physically shown this to explain it properly. [redacted], even though we were able to show her using a coat and tape measure, was never able to understand this and claimed that we had taken her fur. Please understand that we do not need extra old fur scraps. We throw out thousands of pounds of new and old scraps every year. We always give any big pieces back to the customer so they will have matching furthat may be able to be used in the future for matching repairs.But, [redacted] kept complaining about how we took her fur this throughout her innumerable visits. I brought Harry K[redacted], outr top repair remodel craftsman outTo help me explain to [redacted] how the fur was used to create3 this new style.She Insinuated that my superb and deeply religious and loyal craftsman, Harry, who has been with us for thirty years, was lying and stole the fur!! This was a personal insult to him beyond Civility. I had a terrible time calming him down. Finally, I gave her a large stock mink scarf for Free in order to try and placate her-and quite frankly- to Lose Money if necessary to have this unwarranted, unsatisfiable customer Not come to our showroom and be upset. This scarf sells for $650.!![redacted], having received Free storage and cleaning on three garments and the minkScarf has already received a $1000. [redacted] did not want to pick up her garment personally. We delivered it and her two storage garments. It is veritably impossible to deliver a fur lined fabric garment from a truck containing 10-150 other garments and have the fabric not get crushed a bit. All our customers understand and realize that they hang out afterwards.We absolutely never get any complaints about this in New York…. [redacted], due to her physical condition form and aging has a significantly curvedback and tilt to one side. We showed [redacted] measuring the hem of the garmentin four different places that the hem of the garment is properly the same length.I cannot speak for the future as her- and all our bodies -continue to age.We had our designer, Lynn, our best finisher, Rita and myself trying to show herthat a mirror gives an illusory effect between things close and far away. But if youget close up and actually measure it that is the ultimate proof. I, we, are prepared to defend our companies reputation and honor to every extent. Frederick C. G[redacted], PresidentFred G[redacted] furs for Sidney D[redacted], Ltd.