Graybeal Signs

Review: Towards the end of last year we inquired with [redacted] of Graybeal Signs in Wenatchee, WA about getting electronic message centers for the signs at our new business location. In the process we told him about the signs around town that we liked ([redacted], etc.) all of these signs were relatively new and a higher dot pitch than many of the older signs around town. This is what we liked about them. We told him that we wanted to be able to play videos on the signs that our vendors have available to us. We repeatedly asked him about resolution which apparently was the wrong wording to use, but we made many inquiries trying to make sure that we were getting the newer signs. Never once in any of the conversations that we had with him did he ever refer to there even being different dot-pitches available let alone offer us a quote on different options. Basically in the entire transaction (that ended up spanning over six months) every time we talk with him he only ever offered us the one option of signs (a 2ft x 10ft which we found out after delivery was the lowest dot pitch available). Anytime we asked about different shapes or sizes we were told that it was just too expensive (but never given any other prices). When we asked about the image quality, resolution, etc. we were repeatedly assured that our sign would be much better than the [redacted] sign (which is the same size as the sign we got and the same lower dot pitch). In retrospect, [redacted] did often refer to the [redacted] and Graybeal's own sign, but every time he did we referred back to other signs around town and made sure to have him affirm that we were getting the newer signs with better resolution, to which he always assured us that yes the ones we were getting were newer and better technology. Perhaps new and resolution were the wrong terms to use, but we thought we had made it quite clear that we wanted the signs that were like the other new signs we had seen around town. We discussed these other signs at length and thought that was what we were getting. We also were not thrilled with the 2ft x 10ft sign format as it did not fit the visual appeal of our existing signage and made playing video more challenging as no video is made in that format. But every time we asked about other shapes and sizes we were told that either the signs didn't come in the size we were asking about or that it would be way too expensive. Come to find out from the Watchfire rep (who came by after we complained about the signs we got) that all the signs come in 1ft panels and what shape it is makes no difference in price, only the number of panels used. Yes, we did sign a contract that listed the specifications of these signs, but that was after we were basically told they were the only option and we still thought we were getting the newer better resolution. The bottom line in this issue is that we trusted [redacted] as the sign professional. We trusted that he was trying to get us the best signs possible. We don't know why he only ever offered us this one type of sign and any time we inquired about other options he basically told us there were no other options. Why any business owner would not offer other more expensive options when they were clearly asked for by the prospective customer completely baffles us. Either despite his experience in the sign industry and the numerous signs his company has sold around town he did not know his product line, or perhaps he had a cancellation or misorder and had these that he needed to sell or the vendor was offering some super sale to him on these older less popular models? When we expressed our dissatisfaction with the signs as soon as they were installed [redacted] tried to assure us that if we would just try them and use them that we would like them. That is like trying to tell someone who ordered chocolate ice cream that even though you gave them vanilla that many people like vanilla and that if they try it they will like it. It does not matter what other people like and if it is or is not possible to use these signs effectively. The fact is they are not what we asked for, and either incompetent or deceptive practices were used to steer us into agreeing to signs that were not what we had originally wanted.We feel we have been completely reasonable in our requests for resolution of the issue. All we really want is to get the signs that we had originally thought we were getting. We have offered to meet halfway (even though we do not feel we have any fault in the situation other than trusting [redacted] and not doing extensive research on our own), but the only offer of resolution we have received from Graybeal Signs in return is basically for us to sell them as used (with us taking the multi-thousand dollar depreciation on them) and to pay Graybeal for the removal of the wrong signs and then again for the installation of the correct ones. During the time period after delivery until today we have refused payment of the billed balance as we have tried to resolve the dispute. As it now appears that Graybeal is unwilling to come to a reasonable resolution (and under threat of collections) we are paying the remaining balance under protest and referring the matter to the Revdex.com.Desired Settlement: At this point we no longer want to do business with Graybeal signs. We want the finance charges he has assessed during the dispute removed and would appreciate a sincere apology for the headache he has caused us.Ideally at this point we would like a full refund and removal of the signs so we can contract with another company to install signs that are what we wanted, but given the complete unwillingness to work with us at all we are resigned to getting no resolution in without going to court.

Business

Response:

See Attached

Consumer

Response:

8/15/2013

Regarding the complaint filed against Graybeal Signs Inc. and [redacted], #[redacted]

In reply to the letter and documents sent in by [redacted] dated 8/5/2013 it is difficult to decide how best to

respond. The narrative is nearly a complete lie, with only just enough truth to give it structure.

I realized when reading the letter that [redacted] wrote that we may be unable to resolve the complaint at

all. The letter made me very angry because previously, [redacted] acted as though he wanted us to be

happy. Reading the complete and total fabrication of events that never transpired made it crystal clear

to me that it wasn't just a slightly different perspective between client and business, but rather that

[redacted] felt compelled to construct a completely new set of facts in order to appear to bolster his

position... which means that in his own mind he is completely aware of what he did to us, and

completely willing to lie in order to win the dispute.

We trusted Graybeal signs. When we opened this particular retail store three years ago, we purchased

several signs from the salesman working for Graybeal. The first sign was a single face dibond with

custom cut perimeter, the second sign (perhaps a year later?) was also single face dibond with a

rectangular shape which ran nearly the entire length of the building. Those two purchases from the

salesman (I can't remember his name) were very satisfactory in every way. When I called him again

because we were planning a move and would need new signs (I had the salesman's personal cell phone

number saved in my phone) he told me that he was retired and that I should call the Graybeal office,

which I did. I expected that this experience would go well and that I could trust this company, because

I had done business with them two times in the past with very high satisfaction!

At this time I will list the lies in [redacted]'s letter one by one, and then state the truth after each lie. Since

we have only ever made one sign purchase like this one, the particulars of the conversations and

sequence of events are very clear. In addition, the recollections of conversations are easier because

both my wife and I were present together for nearly all of the buying process – due to the size and

importance of the purchase to the success of our business.

Paragraph 1: [redacted] states that the first step he took was looking at code and determining what size of

sign was allowed. I cannot know for certain the truthfulness of this because it is something outside our

direct interaction which I could not have observed. What I CAN say is that, as stated in our original

complaint, he steered us and stonewalled us on other sizes and qualities of sign and he only offered us

the sign that we purchased, even though we repeatedly expressed reservations and concerns about the

shape and size (at the time prior to installation we did not complain about the sign “dot pitch” or

resolution because we had been assured that we were getting a “new” sign that was “better than the

older ones”). This paragraph from [redacted] may imply that sign code would restrict us from a larger,

better sign but that implication would not match with the facts of the sign code. After installation, after

my repeated complaints about the sign and requests for a price for removing and replacing with

something that met our needs, [redacted] did after several months give us a bid for a sign that would meet

our needs as originally discussed with him, and no mention about difficulties with getting a permit,

which it would of course be his job to know about. Also, the part where he says he checked the code

also seems like a lie because he called me just as the sign permit was about to go in (AFTER we had

signed the contract) and told us that he had not realized the city would require us to do landscaping

around the signs, and he needed us to sketch where the curbing, plants, and dirt would be put around

the sign in the parking lot. For these several reasons, although I don't have hard data to disprove his

statement about checking codes, it does seem as though he was unaware of the sign code details untilwell into the process, rather than at the very beginning as he stated in the rebuttal letter.

Paragraph 2: Then [redacted] states that “[redacted] felt information (text) and some graphics would clearly

make the most sense, taking into account that for photos and graphics the sign would not have enough

line length to use large letters which could be seen from any distance.” This statement from [redacted] is

not true. The truth: I specifically asked for a sign so that I could put a photograph of a Sewing

Machine or Vacuum Cleaner along with text describing it, text and photo both visible at the same time.

I also stated that I wanted to be able to run manufacturer-supplied videos and specifically told [redacted]

that those were the features I wanted the sign to have. Text was not as important as graphics, as I told

[redacted] that I was moving from a store that had large windows that passing cars could look in, and since

the new building we were moving into was set back from the street, this sign was to be like a “store

window” so that people driving by would see the merchandise in our store. [redacted] did say in that initial

conversation we had that HE THOUGHT we should have a text-oriented sign, but we reiterated several

times that we needed a sign for graphics and video because that's what we need the sign to do for us. So

in the letter, he has switched around what he wanted to sell us, and lied and said basically “I sold it to

them because that's what they asked to buy”. The complete opposite of the truth, and he knows it.

Paragraph 3: [redacted] states “The next hurdle was budget” and that entire section is a lie.

The truth is that we didn't have a budget, because we had no idea if the cost was $5,000 or $50,000 for

what we wanted. We went to someone we believed to be an expert, told him what we wanted,

mentioned many of the signs that his company had installed around town and how much we liked those

signs, and asked him to tell us how much it was going to cost. WE NEVER GAVE A BUDGET for

what we had to spend. We were going to borrow it, and were willing to spend whatever it cost to get

what we needed.

The part in paragraph 3 where [redacted] states “[redacted] had not looked at any of the signs yet” is not a

major point of our dispute, but it's an example of how nearly every statement in [redacted]'s narrative is

fictional. How could I not have looked at all those signs? Wenatchee has only a couple main streets,

and you have to pass by those signs to get to [redacted], to get to my work and to home, to go to the

Clinic. Everyone in town has seen those signs hundreds of times. When we had our first conversation

with [redacted], we mentioned those specific signs as examples of size, placement, type. And he also says

that he asked us to look at particular signs. We actually thought it was weird and talked about it later

that he never mentioned those signs to us in the sales presentation, instead each and every time the

other signs in town came up, it was [redacted] and I bringing up the mention of the different signs. He

also didn't have those signs in his photo album and didn't know the size or quality of them. Later I

realized that perhaps they had been sold by another sign company? If that is so, that would explain his

weird behavior – it's just that usually someone is proud of the work they have done and they are quick

to point out to a prospective client, you know? Nobody who drives a car in Wenatchee hasn't seen all

of those signs – that part of the letter is clearly a lie also.

Paragraph 4: [redacted] states “[redacted] had not looked at any of the signs yet”. In a pack of lies like this

letter, that sentence (and a couple others) really stands out because even though it's not really

important, it's the same kind of lie as the kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar who says “I am not

stealing a cookie!” It's so silly because it's completely unbelievable and impossible to be true! Of the

signs he mentioned, I drove by the first 2 every single day to get to work. I drove by the 3rd sign every

time I went to East Wenatchee (at least 3x per week). I drove by the 4th sign nearly as often. Everyone

in town has to drive by these signs because there's only a couple streets in Wenatchee to get across

town, and these signs are on the major streets. The stench from all these lies is disgusting and he didn't

even do a good job of sticking to lies that were difficult to disprove...Paragraph 5: Factory rep did not stop by at this point of the process, the first time we met the factory

rep was after the sign was installed, in contrast to what [redacted] writes. Since we had told [redacted] what

we needed in the sign, and had purchased two other signs from his company in the past, and we were

dealing with the owner, we did feel comfortable at that time in our purchase. [redacted] states “The sign

went up before his opening, under budget.” The timeline is not an issue in our complaint, but that

statement is also untrue, as when we were opening and the signs were still several weeks delayed I

made a number of calls to [redacted] which he surely remembers. The software trainer was not available to

show us how to use the signs until a couple weeks after they were installed, and so we flipped off the

circuit breaker to keep them “black” for those couple weeks, because we didn't want attention drawn to

the signs until we had our message ready to run. Because of this, we were not aware of the limitations

of the signs in terms of resolution or dot pitch until the trainer arrived, showed us how to use the

software, and we found out that the sign did not have the ability to render graphics as we had been led

to believe it would. This is one of the key aspects of our complaint.

Paragraph 6: Factory rep comes by our store for the first time after our sign is installed. [redacted] does

not have firsthand knowledge of what we told the rep because [redacted] was not there! We told the rep at

that visit that the signs were not what we wanted, that we had told [redacted] that we were unhappy, and

that we were hoping to get a resolution to the issue. The rep spoke with us at some length about ways

we could use the signs, but agreed that these signs were better for text and not really suitable for the

graphics and video that we wanted to run. He was a nice fellow but really not able to help us in the

situation.

Paragraph 7: [redacted] states that [redacted] was not interested in the meetings or information before the

sign was purchased, did not want training, and had it all under control. That is not true! During the

meetings prior to purchasing the sign, our store was open and we sometimes had to leave the room to

help customers. Both [redacted] and I were out of the room for some brief sections of the conversation.

It is completely untrue that [redacted] was uninterested in the purchase of the sign, in actual fact she was

the more aggressive shopper, asking many different questions about different sizes and shapes of signs,

quizzing [redacted] about how the sign he was proposing would compare with other signs around town,

and many other things. She was a VERY engaged shopper and although most of our questions were

answered, as I look back on the conversation I realize that much as politicians are famous for giving an

answer that never addresses the original question, the same thing happened when we were asking

[redacted] about the sign. It is important to note that he NEVER gave us prices for any different sign than

the one he delivered, even though we repeatedly asked about different shapes. For some reason we

don't understand, he was DETERMINED that we would buy this particular sign and nothing else. As

far as the rest of the paragraph, where [redacted] says that it appears one spouse doesn't know what the

other was doing, that is a total lie as well. [redacted] and I have been best friends for 13 years and we

spend 100% of our time together, both at work and at home. [redacted] knows that what he wrote is a lie

because he saw us working together and visiting his office together – everything we do is together.

Paragraph 8: We told [redacted] what he could do, but he doesn't want to do it!! What we want is to have

the signs we asked for in the initial consultation and what we repeatedly asked for and expressed our

concern to [redacted] that the signs he was proposing seemed too wide for graphics and not tall enough.

(you can't tell the resolution in the artist's rendering of the proposed sign, but you can clearly see the

shape). We made a point of visiting his office after the lease was approved for financing, but before the

signs were “ordered”, and the single reason for our visit was to express concern about the width vs. the

height of the he signs. [redacted] assured us, and we went ahead and trusted him and signed the order for

the signs at the front table in his reception room. I have told him repeatedly on the phone that we arewilling to pay the price difference between the incorrect signs and the correct signs. But I am not

willing to pay the depreciation of the signs, nor am I willing to pay his men's time for removing and

replacing the signs, because this work would not be necessary if it had been done right the first time.

From the beginning, [redacted] has never shown us the price for the sign alone, it's always been sign, labor,

materials, etc. etc. etc. all lumped into one big number.... plus tax, then the total. I can dig up the

“proposal” he gave me for replacing the signs and send it in for your consideration if you want – it

would have essentially been a case of PAYING this contractor for his time taken to fix something that

he broke himself! We did withhold payment on the outstanding balance of the work, because it it

general good business not to finish paying a contractor until the work has been performed to your

satisfaction. We felt that if we paid the last part, we would lose what little leverage we had. When it

became clear that [redacted] was not going to take responsibility for his actions, and probably would have

sent the bill to collection, we decided to pay it. A desperate dog backed into a corner is a dangerous

creature, and his phone calls for payment sounded increasingly desperate. We have a flawless credit

history with all of the sub contractors and the general contractor on the remodel project, as well as

impeccable references with all our suppliers and with our bank. We didn't want a dispute like this to

end up in Collection. So we paid it. When Graybeal sent another bill demanding payment of the

interest, I paid that as well. (I had hoped that he would write off the interest, as businesses like ours

who are financially strong are able to borrow money currently at rates of about 5%. If my sense is

correct and Graybeal Signs is teetering on the brink of financial ruin, he may be borrowing money at

much higher rates and thus need to collect the interest charge).

Paragraph 9: [redacted] states that I told him two weeks after sign delivered that my wife [redacted] was

unhappy with the signs. (Remember, this was as soon as we got the signs fired up, due to the delay in

getting the trainer out because we had left the power turned off until we got trained). This is true! I

hadn't played with trying to put messages or video on the signs myself, so I was calling to complain but

when he asked me about my own experience of using the sign I had to defer and say that it was

[redacted], not me, who had been trying to play video and found that the shape and the resolution (pitch)

were not sufficient. And it's also true that after making my complaint to [redacted], there wasn't any more

complaining until a good while longer. This is due to 2 reasons, first, we opened a new store that was

larger and had a lot of new products to set up. We had hired new employees that needed to be trained.

We had a lot of new customers wanting to buy things and waving their Visa and MasterCards in the air,

and since I had already told [redacted] about the issues and he had offered to find another customer to sell

the signs to (so that we could get the correct ones), I figured he had the situation under control and

would give me a call when it was time to move forward. I did however withhold the final payment (as

he stated) because as I stated before, you don't pay a contractor the final amount due until you are

satisfied with the work being done as agreed to.

I would like to take this opportunity to summarize the situation as I see it:

Our complaint hinges on the fact that we told [redacted] what we wanted to do with the sign, and trusted

him as an expert in signage to provide us what we asked for. When we called after turning the sign on

and finding out how terrible the resolution (pitch) was and complained, he told me that if we played

with it more, we would eventually like it better. That is ridiculous! It's like telling somebody who

orders a Hamburger but the waitress brings out a Taco to “just go ahead and eat it, and you will

probably enjoy it just as much as what you originally asked for”.

We were told MORE THAN ONCE when we expressed concern because the shape of the electronic

sign drawn on the signed proposal looked like [redacted]'s sign and like Graybeal Sign's own sign, we

were told that the sign we were getting was “newer technology” and that assurance was what led us toagree to the order. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the newer signs around town were higher resolution, the

Clinic across the street, the [redacted] sign, the [redacted] signs (2 of them), the [redacted]

in sign and the [redacted] sign. When [redacted] answered our concerns by telling us that we

were getting a “newer technology” sign, AND the newer signs we saw around town all had beautiful

picture quality, we were deceived into signing an order for a sign that wasn't what we wanted! In actual

fact, the sign that was delivered to us is the cheapest kind that [redacted] makes, with the lowest picture

quality. I am now convinced that we were steered into this sign in order to maximize Graybeal's profit

and to fleece the customer (us)!

Since [redacted] has sent a letter with so many lies, (some of them laughable because they are so

implausible), I can only assume that he has no intention of making this situation right. I don't know

how he sleeps at night. At first I was convinced that [redacted] just made a terrible mistake and that he

wasn't good at sales (what salesman EVER fails to mention to a customer that they could spend a little

more money and get the upgraded model?? There were (I think) 3 higher models we could have

gotten). But now, especially after reading all the lies that he didn't have to write but apparently felt

compelled to, I am of the opinion that he probably knew all along that he was steering us away from

what we wanted, but went ahead and did it because he thought we were an easy target and that we

would eventually be reasonably happy with the signs even though we could not do the videos and the

photo of the product next the the description like we had asked for.

Here is how I would like to see this issue resolved.

1. In full confidentiality, I would like to see but not possess a tangible copy of, the official price

list from Watchfire signs that shows the wholesale cost of each model of sign. I would also like

to see the invoice that Graybeal paid on the order of our two signs. I am familiar with retail

margins and and I am not concerned with anybodies need to make a profit to support their

business operations, training costs, support costs while the sign is under warranty, etc. I just

want to be able to see (in a way that makes it impossible for [redacted] to lie again) how much price

difference there is between the model he delivered, and the model we need to have installed.

2. I would like Graybeal Signs to take back the signs that were sold to us under false pretenses, for

a full refund, against the purchase price of the new signs. We will pay the wholesale cost

difference, nothing towards his normal markup, because we are incurring expenses for removal

and installation to rectify this nightmare.

3. I will arrange for the removal and installation of the old/new signs by an authorized [redacted]

dealer, and will have the work done at my expense. The “used” signs will be available in our

parking lot for [redacted] to pick up and take possession of at that time and place. If [redacted] would

like members of his staff to observe the removal, he is welcome to send them.

If there are any questions about this offer of resolution, or if [redacted] would like to make a counter-offer,

I am willing to entertain them, but I am not willing to read through another litany of lies attempting to

deflect the blame onto myself or [redacted].

-[redacted]

Business

Response:

8/15/2013

Regarding the complaint filed against Graybeal Signs Inc. and Monte Graybeal, #9643262

In reply to the letter and documents sent in by Monte dated 8/5/2013 it is difficult to decide how best to

respond. The narrative is nearly a complete lie, with only just enough truth to give it structure.

I realized when reading the letter that Monte wrote that we may be unable to resolve the complaint at

all. The letter made me very angry because previously, Monte acted as though he wanted us to be

happy. Reading the complete and total fabrication of events that never transpired made it crystal clear

to me that it wasn't just a slightly different perspective between client and business, but rather that

Monte felt compelled to construct a completely new set of facts in order to appear to bolster his

position... which means that in his own mind he is completely aware of what he did to us, and

completely willing to lie in order to win the dispute.

We trusted Graybeal signs. When we opened this particular retail store three years ago, we purchased

several signs from the salesman working for Graybeal. The first sign was a single face dibond with

custom cut perimeter, the second sign (perhaps a year later?) was also single face dibond with a

rectangular shape which ran nearly the entire length of the building. Those two purchases from the

salesman (I can't remember his name) were very satisfactory in every way. When I called him again

because we were planning a move and would need new signs (I had the salesman's personal cell phone

number saved in my phone) he told me that he was retired and that I should call the Graybeal office,

which I did. I expected that this experience would go well and that I could trust this company, because

I had done business with them two times in the past with very high satisfaction!

At this time I will list the lies in Monte's letter one by one, and then state the truth after each lie. Since

we have only ever made one sign purchase like this one, the particulars of the conversations and

sequence of events are very clear. In addition, the recollections of conversations are easier because

both my wife and I were present together for nearly all of the buying process – due to the size and

importance of the purchase to the success of our business.

Paragraph 1: Monte states that the first step he took was looking at code and determining what size of

sign was allowed. I cannot know for certain the truthfulness of this because it is something outside our

direct interaction which I could not have observed. What I CAN say is that, as stated in our original

complaint, he steered us and stonewalled us on other sizes and qualities of sign and he only offered us

the sign that we purchased, even though we repeatedly expressed reservations and concerns about the

shape and size (at the time prior to installation we did not complain about the sign “dot pitch” or

resolution because we had been assured that we were getting a “new” sign that was “better than the

older ones”). This paragraph from Monte may imply that sign code would restrict us from a larger,

better sign but that implication would not match with the facts of the sign code. After installation, after

my repeated complaints about the sign and requests for a price for removing and replacing with

something that met our needs, Monte did after several months give us a bid for a sign that would meet

our needs as originally discussed with him, and no mention about difficulties with getting a permit,

which it would of course be his job to know about. Also, the part where he says he checked the code

also seems like a lie because he called me just as the sign permit was about to go in (AFTER we had

signed the contract) and told us that he had not realized the city would require us to do landscaping

around the signs, and he needed us to sketch where the curbing, plants, and dirt would be put around

the sign in the parking lot. For these several reasons, although I don't have hard data to disprove his

statement about checking codes, it does seem as though he was unaware of the sign code details untilwell into the process, rather than at the very beginning as he stated in the rebuttal letter.

Paragraph 2: Then Monte states that “Andrew felt information (text) and some graphics would clearly

make the most sense, taking into account that for photos and graphics the sign would not have enough

line length to use large letters which could be seen from any distance.” This statement from Monte is

not true. The truth: I specifically asked for a sign so that I could put a photograph of a Sewing

Machine or Vacuum Cleaner along with text describing it, text and photo both visible at the same time.

I also stated that I wanted to be able to run manufacturer-supplied videos and specifically told Monte

that those were the features I wanted the sign to have. Text was not as important as graphics, as I told

Monte that I was moving from a store that had large windows that passing cars could look in, and since

the new building we were moving into was set back from the street, this sign was to be like a “store

window” so that people driving by would see the merchandise in our store. Monte did say in that initial

conversation we had that HE THOUGHT we should have a text-oriented sign, but we reiterated several

times that we needed a sign for graphics and video because that's what we need the sign to do for us. So

in the letter, he has switched around what he wanted to sell us, and lied and said basically “I sold it to

them because that's what they asked to buy”. The complete opposite of the truth, and he knows it.

Paragraph 3: Monte states “The next hurdle was budget” and that entire section is a lie.

The truth is that we didn't have a budget, because we had no idea if the cost was $5,000 or $50,000 for

what we wanted. We went to someone we believed to be an expert, told him what we wanted,

mentioned many of the signs that his company had installed around town and how much we liked those

signs, and asked him to tell us how much it was going to cost. WE NEVER GAVE A BUDGET for

what we had to spend. We were going to borrow it, and were willing to spend whatever it cost to get

what we needed.

The part in paragraph 3 where Monte states “Andrew had not looked at any of the signs yet” is not a

major point of our dispute, but it's an example of how nearly every statement in Monte's narrative is

fictional. How could I not have looked at all those signs? Wenatchee has only a couple main streets,

and you have to pass by those signs to get to Wal Mart, to get to my work and to home, to go to the

Clinic. Everyone in town has seen those signs hundreds of times. When we had our first conversation

with Monte, we mentioned those specific signs as examples of size, placement, type. And he also says

that he asked us to look at particular signs. We actually thought it was weird and talked about it later

that he never mentioned those signs to us in the sales presentation, instead each and every time the

other signs in town came up, it was Michelle and I bringing up the mention of the different signs. He

also didn't have those signs in his photo album and didn't know the size or quality of them. Later I

realized that perhaps they had been sold by another sign company? If that is so, that would explain his

weird behavior – it's just that usually someone is proud of the work they have done and they are quick

to point out to a prospective client, you know? Nobody who drives a car in Wenatchee hasn't seen all

of those signs – that part of the letter is clearly a lie also.

Paragraph 4: Monte states “Andrew had not looked at any of the signs yet”. In a pack of lies like this

letter, that sentence (and a couple others) really stands out because even though it's not really

important, it's the same kind of lie as the kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar who says “I am not

stealing a cookie!” It's so silly because it's completely unbelievable and impossible to be true! Of the

signs he mentioned, I drove by the first 2 every single day to get to work. I drove by the 3rd sign every

time I went to East Wenatchee (at least 3x per week). I drove by the 4th sign nearly as often. Everyone

in town has to drive by these signs because there's only a couple streets in Wenatchee to get across

town, and these signs are on the major streets. The stench from all these lies is disgusting and he didn't

even do a good job of sticking to lies that were difficult to disprove...Paragraph 5: Factory rep did not stop by at this point of the process, the first time we met the factory

rep was after the sign was installed, in contrast to what Monte writes. Since we had told Monte what

we needed in the sign, and had purchased two other signs from his company in the past, and we were

dealing with the owner, we did feel comfortable at that time in our purchase. Monte states “The sign

went up before his opening, under budget.” The timeline is not an issue in our complaint, but that

statement is also untrue, as when we were opening and the signs were still several weeks delayed I

made a number of calls to Monte which he surely remembers. The software trainer was not available to

show us how to use the signs until a couple weeks after they were installed, and so we flipped off the

circuit breaker to keep them “black” for those couple weeks, because we didn't want attention drawn to

the signs until we had our message ready to run. Because of this, we were not aware of the limitations

of the signs in terms of resolution or dot pitch until the trainer arrived, showed us how to use the

software, and we found out that the sign did not have the ability to render graphics as we had been led

to believe it would. This is one of the key aspects of our complaint.

Paragraph 6: Factory rep comes by our store for the first time after our sign is installed. Monte does

not have firsthand knowledge of what we told the rep because Monte was not there! We told the rep at

that visit that the signs were not what we wanted, that we had told Monte that we were unhappy, and

that we were hoping to get a resolution to the issue. The rep spoke with us at some length about ways

we could use the signs, but agreed that these signs were better for text and not really suitable for the

graphics and video that we wanted to run. He was a nice fellow but really not able to help us in the

situation.

Paragraph 7: Monte states that Michelle was not interested in the meetings or information before the

sign was purchased, did not want training, and had it all under control. That is not true! During the

meetings prior to purchasing the sign, our store was open and we sometimes had to leave the room to

help customers. Both Michelle and I were out of the room for some brief sections of the conversation.

It is completely untrue that Michelle was uninterested in the purchase of the sign, in actual fact she was

the more aggressive shopper, asking many different questions about different sizes and shapes of signs,

quizzing Monte about how the sign he was proposing would compare with other signs around town,

and many other things. She was a VERY engaged shopper and although most of our questions were

answered, as I look back on the conversation I realize that much as politicians are famous for giving an

answer that never addresses the original question, the same thing happened when we were asking

Monte about the sign. It is important to note that he NEVER gave us prices for any different sign than

the one he delivered, even though we repeatedly asked about different shapes. For some reason we

don't understand, he was DETERMINED that we would buy this particular sign and nothing else. As

far as the rest of the paragraph, where Monte says that it appears one spouse doesn't know what the

other was doing, that is a total lie as well. Michelle and I have been best friends for 13 years and we

spend 100% of our time together, both at work and at home. Monte knows that what he wrote is a lie

because he saw us working together and visiting his office together – everything we do is together.

Paragraph 8: We told Monte what he could do, but he doesn't want to do it!! What we want is to have

the signs we asked for in the initial consultation and what we repeatedly asked for and expressed our

concern to Monte that the signs he was proposing seemed too wide for graphics and not tall enough.

(you can't tell the resolution in the artist's rendering of the proposed sign, but you can clearly see the

shape). We made a point of visiting his office after the lease was approved for financing, but before the

signs were “ordered”, and the single reason for our visit was to express concern about the width vs. the

height of the he signs. Monte assured us, and we went ahead and trusted him and signed the order for

the signs at the front table in his reception room. I have told him repeatedly on the phone that we arewilling to pay the price difference between the incorrect signs and the correct signs. But I am not

willing to pay the depreciation of the signs, nor am I willing to pay his men's time for removing and

replacing the signs, because this work would not be necessary if it had been done right the first time.

From the beginning, Monte has never shown us the price for the sign alone, it's always been sign, labor,

materials, etc. etc. etc. all lumped into one big number.... plus tax, then the total. I can dig up the

“proposal” he gave me for replacing the signs and send it in for your consideration if you want – it

would have essentially been a case of PAYING this contractor for his time taken to fix something that

he broke himself! We did withhold payment on the outstanding balance of the work, because it it

general good business not to finish paying a contractor until the work has been performed to your

satisfaction. We felt that if we paid the last part, we would lose what little leverage we had. When it

became clear that Monte was not going to take responsibility for his actions, and probably would have

sent the bill to collection, we decided to pay it. A desperate dog backed into a corner is a dangerous

creature, and his phone calls for payment sounded increasingly desperate. We have a flawless credit

history with all of the sub contractors and the general contractor on the remodel project, as well as

impeccable references with all our suppliers and with our bank. We didn't want a dispute like this to

end up in Collection. So we paid it. When Graybeal sent another bill demanding payment of the

interest, I paid that as well. (I had hoped that he would write off the interest, as businesses like ours

who are financially strong are able to borrow money currently at rates of about 5%. If my sense is

correct and Graybeal Signs is teetering on the brink of financial ruin, he may be borrowing money at

much higher rates and thus need to collect the interest charge).

Paragraph 9: Monte states that I told him two weeks after sign delivered that my wife Michelle was

unhappy with the signs. (Remember, this was as soon as we got the signs fired up, due to the delay in

getting the trainer out because we had left the power turned off until we got trained). This is true! I

hadn't played with trying to put messages or video on the signs myself, so I was calling to complain but

when he asked me about my own experience of using the sign I had to defer and say that it was

Michelle, not me, who had been trying to play video and found that the shape and the resolution (pitch)

were not sufficient. And it's also true that after making my complaint to Monte, there wasn't any more

complaining until a good while longer. This is due to 2 reasons, first, we opened a new store that was

larger and had a lot of new products to set up. We had hired new employees that needed to be trained.

We had a lot of new customers wanting to buy things and waving their Visa and MasterCards in the air,

and since I had already told Monte about the issues and he had offered to find another customer to sell

the signs to (so that we could get the correct ones), I figured he had the situation under control and

would give me a call when it was time to move forward. I did however withhold the final payment (as

he stated) because as I stated before, you don't pay a contractor the final amount due until you are

satisfied with the work being done as agreed to.

I would like to take this opportunity to summarize the situation as I see it:

Our complaint hinges on the fact that we told Monte what we wanted to do with the sign, and trusted

him as an expert in signage to provide us what we asked for. When we called after turning the sign on

and finding out how terrible the resolution (pitch) was and complained, he told me that if we played

with it more, we would eventually like it better. That is ridiculous! It's like telling somebody who

orders a Hamburger but the waitress brings out a Taco to “just go ahead and eat it, and you will

probably enjoy it just as much as what you originally asked for”.

We were told MORE THAN ONCE when we expressed concern because the shape of the electronic

sign drawn on the signed proposal looked like Total Travel's sign and like Graybeal Sign's own sign, we

were told that the sign we were getting was “newer technology” and that assurance was what led us toagree to the order. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the newer signs around town were higher resolution, the

Clinic across the street, the Patriot Plumbing sign, the 76 Gas Station signs (2 of them), the Sonic drive

in sign and the Lifeline Ambulance sign. When Monte answered our concerns by telling us that we

were getting a “newer technology” sign, AND the newer signs we saw around town all had beautiful

picture quality, we were deceived into signing an order for a sign that wasn't what we wanted! In actual

fact, the sign that was delivered to us is the cheapest kind that WatchFire makes, with the lowest picture

quality. I am now convinced that we were steered into this sign in order to maximize Graybeal's profit

and to fleece the customer (us)!

Since Monte has sent a letter with so many lies, (some of them laughable because they are so

implausible), I can only assume that he has no intention of making this situation right. I don't know

how he sleeps at night. At first I was convinced that Monte just made a terrible mistake and that he

wasn't good at sales (what salesman EVER fails to mention to a customer that they could spend a little

more money and get the upgraded model?? There were (I think) 3 higher models we could have

gotten). But now, especially after reading all the lies that he didn't have to write but apparently felt

compelled to, I am of the opinion that he probably knew all along that he was steering us away from

what we wanted, but went ahead and did it because he thought we were an easy target and that we

would eventually be reasonably happy with the signs even though we could not do the videos and the

photo of the product next the the description like we had asked for.

Here is how I would like to see this issue resolved.

1. In full confidentiality, I would like to see but not possess a tangible copy of, the official price

list from Watchfire signs that shows the wholesale cost of each model of sign. I would also like

to see the invoice that Graybeal paid on the order of our two signs. I am familiar with retail

margins and and I am not concerned with anybodies need to make a profit to support their

business operations, training costs, support costs while the sign is under warranty, etc. I just

want to be able to see (in a way that makes it impossible for Monte to lie again) how much price

difference there is between the model he delivered, and the model we need to have installed.

2. I would like Graybeal Signs to take back the signs that were sold to us under false pretenses, for

a full refund, against the purchase price of the new signs. We will pay the wholesale cost

difference, nothing towards his normal markup, because we are incurring expenses for removal

and installation to rectify this nightmare.

3. I will arrange for the removal and installation of the old/new signs by an authorized WatchFire

dealer, and will have the work done at my expense. The “used” signs will be available in our

parking lot for Monte to pick up and take possession of at that time and place. If Monte would

like members of his staff to observe the removal, he is welcome to send them.

If there are any questions about this offer of resolution, or if Monte would like to make a counter-offer,

I am willing to entertain them, but I am not willing to read through another litany of lies attempting to

deflect the blame onto myself or Michelle.

-Andrew Weaver

Business

Response:

Toward the end of last year we were contacted by [redacted] from [redacted]’s [redacted] about a potential move to a new location. The property had two existing sign structures that were to be used by [redacted]’s. The initial challenge was that there was a limited amount of sq.footage that could be added to each sign structure according to the local city sign code.

Once the size allowed was determined, I met once more with [redacted] and discussed potential use, what kind of messages; text only, graphics, photos or video, [redacted] felt information (text) and some graphics would clearly make the most sense, taking into account that for photos and graphics the sign would not have enough line length to use large letters which could be seen from any distance.

The next hurdle was budget Now that we know how the store would use the sign, and how city code fit into the equation, we talked budget. [redacted] told me his budget for the whole job, message centers, new static faces, restoring existing sign cabinets, repairs and new paint I explained to [redacted] that I would be pricing a sign that fit the needed criteria. I also suggested he look at various signs in our area such [redacted] I requested after looking at these signs we talk again about what he liked or disliked about each sign.

I came back with a proposal and design proof. [redacted] had not looked at any of the signs yet, but he was getting in a hurry to get this going. 6-8 week lead time. Time was of the essence. I suggested we have our factory representative come over and show the different units so as to be better able to make a large purchase decision. He said he thought he had enough information. [redacted] was referred to the web-site of information. I do not know if he visited the site. He said he needed to get this going to make his opening date.

He contacted a lease company and the proposal was signed. The sign was ordered. We had our factory representative in the area for other demos, we asked that he stop and see [redacted] just to make sure there were no underlying questions. There were none.

The sign went up before his opening, under budget. My software trainer went to train and was told they basically had it under control, “no complaints”.

When my factory representative was in town soon after we stopped by again to see if they needed anything or had questions about the software. We were told by Michelle, [redacted]s’s wife, they were doing fine, no complaints.

Two weeks went by and I noticed the initial messages were still on the sign since the beginning fire up, [redacted] told us his wife did not like the sign, she thought it was going to be different. I reminded him that his wife, Michelle was not interested in any of the information or meetings we had, did not want training and “had it all under control”. I suggested they might try using the sign to its full potential

The sign is virtually the same today. No new messages, no attempt to use it to its full potential The customer (the husband) was educated, informed and made a decision. No questions after the fact, no complaints or red flags.

This appears to be a case of one spouse not knowing what the other was doing and ended up later unhappy.

I asked [redacted] on several occasions to explain what I could do to resolve this, he never was able to tell me, he was just not happy now. It seems, to back up the unhappiness, he talked himself into all kinds of things that did not take place to justify his position. He was asked to pay his account, and he finally did that. There is still interest owing on his account of $487,26, and we intend to collect it.

[redacted] told me his wife was not happy two weeks after the install} never another word until we called to see about our final payment three months later. We sent out statements every month with no word from [redacted], We have a signed proposal, signed design artwork, (attached) and we completed the job promptly and with good faith. We intend to be there to warranty the sign if needed and we arp^rribly disappointed the customer is unhappy. Hopefully, the couple can learn to communicate with each other more clearly.

\

Business

Response:

Please See Attached

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

There WAS no offer to review from the business. I have clarified my request for how to move forward towards a resolution, and it is attached.

Regards,

Consumer

Response:

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

There WAS no offer to review from the business. I have clarified my request for how to move forward towards a resolution, and it is attached.

Regards,