Groff's Heating, Air Conditioning & Plumbing, Inc.

Updated bill sent by consumer.

--------- Forwarded message ----------From: [redacted]<[redacted]@myRevdex.com.org>Date: Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 3:27 PMSubject: Fwd: ref: [redacted]To: [redacted]@myRevdex.com.org---------- Forwarded message ----------From: Revdex.com of Metro Washington DC <[email protected]>Date: Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at...

11:59 AMSubject: Fwd: ref: [redacted]To: [redacted] <[redacted]@myRevdex.com.org>---------- Forwarded message ----------From: [redacted] <[redacted].net>Date: Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 11:24 AMSubject: ref: [redacted]To: [email protected]: [redacted].net[redacted] Attached are the additional documents that you requested.My initial troubleshooting of the [redacted] system failure indicated error code 6: either a bad capacitor, or a bad motor winding in the compressor.After talking with Groff’s and finding that they would charge me $52 + $112/hour +$ unspecified charges, I then called [redacted] with the results of my troubleshooting.  Vertex brought the parts with them (I gave them the capacitor part #), and they had it fixed in 15 minutes.Note: I pre-paid Groff’s for labor when I bought the system, and they would not honor that agreement.Please contact me with your question. E John H[redacted]###-###-####

We make an effort to get the best information about the type of equipment before sending a technician out, but sometimes our best attempts far short.  We want to have a reputation as a dependable service contractor.   It has never been our desire to make money, while providing poor service.  We are sorry that we failed to meet [redacted]'s expectations.  We will extend a $100 refund to [redacted].

[redacted] accurately reported the date of service and what service was done to his heater.  The technician was on site for 80 minutes to assure that the unit was no longer shutting down after 5-10 min.  Unfortunately the next day, the unit was reportedly shutting off again.  The...

technician had done all that could be done without replacing parts.  In our 29 years in the heating business, we had never encountered this brand of heater ([redacted]) so we did not have parts available from our suppliers for this unit.  
After [redacted] provided us with the model# on 12/21/15, we searched on-line and put in a call to this manufacturer.  The technician was on the phone for a long time before being connected with tech support for Mr Heater.  They recommended a board replacement.  We provided a quote to [redacted] of $341.  [redacted] chose to contact [redacted] directly and make his own repairs.  
Since this heater was not installed by Groff's, we recommend that [redacted] see if any help or warranty is available through the manufacturer of this unit.

Charged me $ 229 for 40 minutes work. Part only cost $30. Charged $52 just to come to the door which was ten minutes from their shop.

Review: In reference to a [redacted] Geothermal Heat Pump Model [redacted].

Groffs was out to perform troubleshooting. Instead of fixing the problem, Groffs electrically removed it by jumpering the geothermal loop water pressure switches (both low pressure and high pressure) from the control circuit without ever checking to see if there was a valid pressure signal that required the protective lockout action. Groffs never checked the pressure, they just cut the wires to the two pressure switches and reattached the wires so that the loop pressure sensors were removed from the circuit.

This wiring change, performed by Groffs cleared the lockout (it got the unit running again), but is an engineering problem for the following two reasons:

1. It could pose a threat to the home and the environment if an over pressure condition results in a loop pressure boundary failure, because 20 gallons of Methanol was added to the loop piping for freeze protection. The MSDS indicates a Health risk of 2 for methyl alcohol.

2. It could damage the loop circulation pump if a low pressure condition.

There is another engineering problem: the well piping is only rated 200 psi, the connecting piping is rated 160 psi, and the last 8 feet of the loop is nylon reinforced [redacted] tubing. I don’t know the pressure rating of [redacted] tubing, but with my 40 years of engineering experience this is the only time that I’ve seen [redacted] tubing used in any application other than temporary use for testing. The problem with the well piping is that the well is 450 feet deep, and the water pressure just from head is 195 psi, add to that the normal system pressure of 30 psi yields 225 psi. However, the piping is only rated for 200 psi. Groffs specified the wrong pressure class for the loop piping (a deep well needs to have a higher pressure rating).

The third problem is with the guarantee. The 10 year parts & labor agreement per the December 2012 proposal was not honored. Groffs charged me $52 to send a guy to the door, and then $100 per hour to troubleshoot. The guy was here for 40 minutes, and I was charged and paid the full price ($136), the warranty did not cover anything.Desired Settlement: Either replace the loop piping with proper piping pressure class or refund the full amount of $14,900 for the geo-thermal heat pump, and refund the $136 that I was charged. Note: I had another contractor come out (after Groffs jumpered the pressure switches) and check the loop pressure and they found that it was low. Low pressure could indicate a leak, which would be a very serious problem since the geo-loop has 20 gallons of methanol.

Review: On May 21, 2014 at 10:35am, I called ###-###-#### and spoke with the customer service rep for 11 minutes. We discussed ad-hoc HVAC maintenance. I inquired as to multi-year service that is offered by competitors with bulk pricing. It was not available. Leaving the conversation, my expectations were set that my visit entailed a price that included a "now" visit and a "fall" visit for my HVAC system.

On 6/13, the technician arrived at 8:10am. He did not call me, informing me that he was on his way, or of his expected arrival time as I had requested, and as I was told by the customer service rep that he would. This is the second instance from this company that they did not call ahead informing me of their visit as requested and as they confirmed that the technician would do so.

He changed my filter and checked a few things such as the refrigerant pressures for the Head and suction, the outdoor temperature, the fan motor amperage, the airflow temperatures supply and return. He marked that he cleaned the the blower motor and wheel, checked wiring connections, cleaned the coil, among several other items. He documented that this was a single charge of $215 for this one visit. It was a single line item that was not broken out - I commented on that. I also discussed with him that the price was to include a "now" visit and a fall visit. I made the mistake of thinking this was the person to have this discussion with. I thanked him for his work, made notes on the invoice, and signed my acknowledgement that he performed the work as stated, but that the $215 was what he thought was the price for this single visit and that I would not be paying $215 for 1 visit. Keep in mind my unit is only a year old, so his work should have been a walk in the park, relative to older units this firm may service.\

I should mention that my neighborhood is still being constructed. The builder is exclusively using Groff for HVAC and Plumbing, their people / technicians / trucks are here all the time.

A few days later, I received a letter / invoice dated 6/19/2014 from a service manager, Byron W[redacted]. In the letter, Byron claimed that the customer service rep has notes of my conversation that "clearly" state that the AC clean and service would be $215. The invoice was a single line item of $215, nothing broken out like labor, travel, etc. I found that to be unprofessional and misleading. Additionally, the "due date" and the "invoice date" were the same day, 6/19. How can the invoice be created and the due date be the same day? That's deceptive and grounds for suspicion. I don't have a request to pay yet, but my monies are due the day that they create the invoice. Doesn't sound very fair to me.

I called Byron on Monday, June 30, 2014 at 8:38am. The call was 12 minutes, I spoke directly with Byron about the situation. He mentioned the notes of the rep to which I replied that notes are dismissable as heresay as they can be fabricated after the fact. I also told him that "notes" are irrelevant and unless he recorded the conversation, isn't even worth discussing. Further, I told him that my notes state that the rep told me that the service would include the maintenance now and in the fall. I then mentioned that it would be wrong to argue that my notes are less admissable then his customer service rep's alleged notes. I told Byron that we're in a "he said / she said" dilemma and that I would have never agreed to a single visit for a fee of $215 for a service that should be around $100, especially for a brand new system with no issues and that it would be unfair to expect me to pay $215 for an hour of work. Byron tried to justify the cost claiming that they charge that amount to everyone and that travel time drives up the price. That's when I mentioned that his people are in my still-in-construction neighborhood all time. Again, Byron made claims that his "installers" don't service or repair, to which I dismissed trying to justify his sky-high sticker price. I leveled with him stating that my sticker shock alone should tell him that there's a problem - as my thoughts were that had my expectations been properly set, this conversation wouldn't have even occurred. The conversation ended with me iterating to him that, "there's no way you can expect me to accept that an hour of work for a single visit on a 1 year old system is worth $215, you need to give me a reasonable number here". Byron was unwilling to work with me and had no comment other than, that is our price. I told him that I would be going to the Revdex.com and he said, "I will answer them when they contact us." I told him I wouldn't be paying the $215 to which he replied, "okay", which to me is interpretable as acceptance of my unwillingness to pay the full $215.

I think the issue here is that their processes and communication is unclear. I'm not in the HVAC industry. Whatever terminology they used with me on the phone, the bottom line is that I was not clear about what was going on or what I was getting for the stated cost. I will not be using this vendor in the future and will do my best to ensure that my over 400 social networking friends don't use them either. At my prior home, I've paid for "annual" maintenance contracts that were less than $250 which included a spring and fall visit. Whatever was communicated to me, it was NOT clear that this was a single visit that would cost me $215, and that another visit in the fall might cost possibly another $215. In addition, I intend to go to my HOA and homeowner's messaging area to expose these unethical price gougers.

I find the practices of Groff's and their ridiculous notion that $215 is a fair price for a single cleaning visit for a 1 year old system to be an unfair and deceptive practice. I will agree to paying them for roughly 1/2 of the $215 for this service, or $107.49.Desired Settlement: For them to accept pricing for single visit (I sent check for 1/2 of the amount billed). I would say to honor the second visit, but then they'd have my $215, and my concern is that since they have an undesired Revdex.com rating and now 2 complaints against them (and seeing as how they're violators of the UDAP regulation pertaining to Unfair and Deceptive Practices), that they wouldn't honor the second visit as they would a new customer that they can rip-off.