Helena Auto Center

On the morning of April 10th 2014,I had my 2002 Toyota services with another garage in Helena.. I had the Transmission flushed and the differential changed. I also needed my oil changed.My husband told me to goto Helena Motors as they gave us a break as we bring our own oil and filter.The oil change is cheaper than anywhere else. So not just an hour after I just had my vehicle services at another garage I was told by the Service Advisor that I had filthy transmission fluid and a leak in the transmission as well as an oil leak...the quote was $786.95....I told him that I felt that this was impossible as I just had the transmission flushed. "Well it was leaking all over when you brought it in! It made a mess on the shop floor." Well now, I had forgotten my Kindle
in the truck so I went to get it while I was waiting and the truck was already gone and I didn't see any mess? interesting.... So he then told me I needed to take it back to where I got it fixed cause THEY made a mess of my truck! (I watched that morning as they hooked my truck up and flushed the transmission...the hose clamp DID come loose and they apparently didn't clean it as well as they should but I am puzzled as how fresh transmission fluid can be "filthy" as was stated to me.? Then he asked accusingly "Why I didn't have someone else change the oil? " Really?! It seemed at this point he'd been caught in his 800$ scam and he wanted me gone! I feel because I am a woman I was treated unfairly and I am most disappointed that this happened. We have bought a vehicle from this company but we will not ever be going back there for anything

Review: We took the truck in to have an oil leak repaired the oil pan gasket needed to be replaced and this was done (but not without issues see below). I also had the dealership investigate a loss of engine power that I was experiencing. I suspected that this was a fuel delivery issue. The result of this diagnosis was that there was no fuel delivery issue but rather that I needed new catalytic converters (more on this later). I chose not yet to have the cats replaced as I wanted to research my options and confer with an exhaust shop.While it was in the shop I asked them to change inspect the power steering because it seemed to be making a squeak and groan although the system was functioning and performing well. The diagnosis was that the truck had a leak from the steering pump shaft. This was the only issue identified with the system at that time. The tech recommended getting a replacement steering pump. I obtained and aftermarket one from a local automotive supply shop and the pump was replaced. When arrived to pick up the truck there were two immediate issues. The first had to do with the oil pan gasket repair in that the tech, although he replaced the gasket and all of the oil in the truck was new, failed to change the oil filter. This is a very basic error and should have been a telltale sign that the service department has fundamental issues. I had them put a new oil filter on the truck right away before taking the truck home. The other issue was that when I provided the new steering pump, I insisted that they also replace the belt for the system since the belt had to be removed anyway. I specifically told them to replace it with a [redacted] part. This was not done and I had to schedule another appointment to bring it back to have that completed. After leaving the shop, it was apparent that the trucks's steering system was not functioning correctly. They obviously did not test drive the truck properly.I brought the truck back to the shop and they diagnosed it this time as a bad steering gear. They told me that the new pump was of higher pressure and can cause a well worn steering gear to completely fail. I was told that [redacted] does not make new steering gears and there are only a couple of sources of rebuilt ones. I found the most reliable source I could and had the steering gear replaced. Because the techs claimed that the gear threw off shavings, they also recommended that I get a new pump and that the aftermarket pump was possibly compromised. This time I obtained a rebuilt genuine [redacted] pump to be installed with the new rebuilt gear. This work was completed and I was called to pick up the truck. Upon driving it home, I was immediately apparent that the steering system was not working again. It felt exactly the same as the first time. I brought it back. I met with the tech, the service manager and the senior tech. I also separately conferred with two outside expert [redacted] mechanics. I was told by both outside experts that these issues could have both been as simple as improperly bleeding the system and that there was a specific way of bleeding the system. Specifically, that the wheels had to be off the ground when doing the bleeding procedure. When I told this to the tech, he said he did not do it that way but when the senior tech heard this he confirmed that this is the way it should have been done and that he himself does it that way. The result of this discussion was that there could be other issues besides the pump and the gear. Specifically the senior tech explained that the lines could have internally decomposed and failed causing blockages. He then personally inspected the lines and found them to be weeping (could this have been the original source of the leak?). This weeping was indicative of the line blockage condition. He said they should replace the lines and I agreed to this course of action while wondering how this was not discovered originally (I had asked that the lines be inspected) and after I have replaced two pumps and a steering gear. I was asked if I wanted the pump replaced with the aftermarket one that was on there when the gear failed. I specifically said that I did not want this pump to be put on the truck. It made no sense to me why the rep would suggest this since I was told that that very pump had to be replaced for fear that it was compromised by the shavings.The replacement of the lines was done however they chose to only do 1/2 of the system because the other side of the line was determined to be ok. I was called and told that the steering was not working well and that they suspected another pump failure. Since the shop still had the other pump (the aftermarket one) they put it back on the truck without my authorization however they did this as a way to test their theory that there was another failed pump. They called and told me this and informed me that with the aftermarket pump installed the truck was steering well and I could come pick it up. I told them that I did not want that pump on there and that I would obtain a new [redacted] pump to replace it with. Upon searching however, I discovered that [redacted] had also ceased making new pumps for these trucks and I would have to have a rebuilt or aftermarket one on there anyway. The representative said that since the aftermarket pump was on there and working that I could just keep it on there. My wife went to pick up the truck and was on her way to the muffler shop to have the catalytic converters replaced (as per the original suggestion by Helena Motors). When pulling into [redacted], she discovered that the steering system was not working; the truck had to be left there because it was barely driveable. While there, [redacted] did their inspection and back pressure tested the system finding no problems with the catalytic converters (another misdiagnosis by HM).We were able to convince Helena Motors to have a field tech inspect the vehicle. Helena Motors was insisting that the three pumps we orDesired Settlement: Refund of all money spent.

Business

Response:

Mr [redacted], [redacted] my service manager, and I met on 6-5-13 to discuss the [redacted]'s concerns. Part of the problem was definitely bad pumps that were provided to us by the [redacted]'s and part of the problem may have been somethings our technician had done or not done it is difficult to determine at this point. However, during our discussion we all agreed based on advice Mr. [redacted] had obtained from outside tecnicians he had consulted and from consulting our technicians that the vehicle needed a steering gear and a pump to be properly repaired. We determined the labor necessary to replace the steering gear and a pump. We refunded the remainder of the labor the [redacted]'s had already paid to them and wrote off the outstanding repair bill that had not yet been paid so all they paid was what it would have cost in labor to complete the replacement of a steering gear and a pump had everything gone right from start. They provided the parts so no charge was made for parts. Mr. [redacted] said he was satisfied that the vehicle is repaired and working properly and he also said he was satisified with the refund we made him and with the resolution to their concerns. I believe this has been resolved to the satisfaction of both parties and am not aware of anything additional needed to be done.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I have read the Helena Motors response and it does not resolve my complaint. In the response, [redacted] stated, "part of the problem was definitely bad pumps that were provided to us by the [redacted]'s and part of the problem may have been somethings our technician had done or not done it is difficult to determine at this point." Helena Motors has no evidence to support the claim that the two pumps we provided were bad. We purchased the pumps from a reputable company and the final pump that was installed and purchased by Helena Motors and was from the exact same company we purchased our pumps from. Furthermore, when the [redacted] Field Tech inspected our vehicle after the Helena Motors' technicians had been unable to repair it he stated nothing about bad pumps. Also in the response from Helena Motors was the following statement, "However, during our discussion we all agreed based on advice Mr.[redacted] had obtained from outside technicians he had consulted and from consulting our technicians that the vehicle needed a steering gear and a pump to be properly repaired." This is precisely our point; the truck's entire steering system components should have been replaced at the same time. Helena Motors represented to us that the only component that needed replacing was the pump. We relied on that representation given that they are a [redacted] dealership. When that failed to solve the problem multiple times we did our own research, as did they, and both of us came to the same conclusion; the initial repair was done incorrectly. Had we been given the correct diagnosis, to replace all steering components, we would not have done the repair because the car was driveable and the expense would not have been justified. But after Helena Motors' initial repair the truck was not driveable and it took them 4 attempts over the course of 8 months to get the truck driving. Helena Motors may claim that a lot of that time was spent waiting on parts and that is true but the pumps were only available from the company we used since Toyota had discontinued our truck's pump and additional parts were needed because of Helena Motors' misdiagnosis. We are only willing to pay for the repair that Helena Motors represented would be necessary and nothing more. All subsequent pumps and a steering gear and labor were necessary because of the misdiagnosis. Again if given the correct diagnosis we would have declined any work to be done on the steering system. Regards,[redacted]

Regards,

Business

Response:

We can go back and forth and point fingers at each other and

say, “you provided us with a bad pump”, or “your technician should have told us

it was likely to need a steering gear and a pump the first time”, but I feel it

is pointless at this point to keep doing that.

It is probable the [redacted]’s are out some expense paid on bad pumps

and we are out time our technicians wasted putting in bad pumps. I feel the solution we arrived at which was agreed

to by Mr. [redacted] is fair to both parties considering the circumstances.