Holland Remodeling & Building, LLC

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 9, 2015/07/22) */ Contact Name and Title: Joyce B [redacted] Contact Phone: [redacted] Contact Email: [redacted] We did the clients bathroom remodel late last year she was not happy with the finished product we then went back and fixed a few things still not happy we started most of it from scratch again I have attached pictures of our finished product and then when she called after we had finished a few months later bathroom was a mess please see attached pictures of before and after Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 11, 2015/07/27) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) I'm not really clear what the response is saying, other than I contacted them with additional issuesI would simply like to restate that it was not fixing a few things that I wasn't happy with, implying that my expectations are somehow at faultThese were pretty extensive problems that shouldn't happen when paying for a professional remodelI will attach my document detailing the timing and extent of the problemsThe problem I believe she is referring to as the mess is that the surround and tub were not sealed properly and the drywall is crackedYou can see from my attached pictures that there are other areas where the drywall is cracked as wellThese areas are above the surround and showing only minimal seepage at this pointThe combination of no sealant and cracked drywall is what lead to the "mess" of water damage and moldWhen Holland came on the fourth attempt to fix the poorly mitered door trim, this was told to the worker (I believe his name was Timmy) and not addressedAs such, it has continued to deteriorateI maintain my original position that all the issues are a result of poor workmanship and will require professional services to correctAs Holland was not able to do this after four attempts, I would like my payments back so that I am able to hire someone who canThank you Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 13, 2015/08/08) */ we have been out there to replace what she felt was wrong and have completed picturesNow they have neglected the space and want me to fix what has been ruined and dirty and I will not

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 13, 2016/06/08) */ [redacted] Based on their requested wants needs and desire we were unable to start or even get a contract signed so no work was done for this client no transfer of funds sometimes we are just not able to fit every job into our schedule Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 15, 2016/06/10) */ (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) We were not even provided with a contract to signWe asked several times for the amount of deposit to get the job startedWhen we requested the bid we made it abundantly clear that we would be providing siding, and windows, it was on our bid, but JOYCE seemed to be unawareAll of our desires were not an issue upon bidding the jobContractor didn't even advise that there was problem, they just abandoned the upcoming job after giving us a start date of mid April JOYCE kept telling us she was working on the contract, but we never received itHow could we sign what we didn't receive Ironically, their overabundance of work was not disclosed upon bidding the jobIf it had been, we might have made other plansI find JOYCE's response empty--it's par for the courseThere's no information in her response, just lip service At this point it doesn't matterI tell everyone about Holland and the terrible thing they did

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/09/11) */
On 9/10/15, Revdex.com received the following from the business via email:
The complaints comes with three points of dissatisfaction with our workThe first being that the contractor used a sub-contractor to install the guttersThe practice of
using sub-contractor is quite common among contractorsIn fact, it is the implication that the term contractor evokesBoth the contractor and sub-contractor were very attentive to the ***'s concerns throughout this entire process, so I fail to see how this can be considered a valid reason to file a complaint with the Revdex.com
The second point of dissatisfaction is the guttersThey state that we told them that we could't install 6" gutters due to our truck only having the capacity to produce 5" GuttersWhile that may be true, 6" seamless gutters are available at more than one local building supply store in custom lengths(If we thought that this was a good option, we would have installed them.) What we told her is that it is a bad idea to install 6" seamless gutters on a 40' run especially attached to a low slope roofWe told her that they would likely fill with ice and the expansion of that ice and the weight of it, it would likely rip them right off the fascia boardWe also said that there are 6" gutters with expansion seams that allow for the expansion of the ice and are installed in 10' sections so that if one is ripped down the rest do not followShe said that she wanted seamless and went with the 5" gutter with the larger downspoutThe second thing which they state is wrong with the gutters is that they are installed incorrectlyThey state this based on the review of a contractor of their choice
This gentleman has provided us with an email stating that the never told the ***'s that we installed the gutters incorrectlyIt reads as follows:
Bert,
Mr& Mrs*** requested us to come out and look at a gutter that was leaking on the front of a low slope roofAs I explained to them you can shingle a low slope but must install HT ice and water shield over the entire areaWe did not install the original roof thus cannot guarantee this was doneI am assuming they only installed standard ice and water shield and probably not over the entire area, thus this would explain the ice back up and leaking into the soffit area close to the front door
As for the gutters that are leaking we feel a larger gutter 6" will help to control some of the run off or large amounts of water they have noticed running over the guttersWe did not in any way blame you or your company for poor installationWe were asked to look at a problem and as we would with any request we offered our opinion on how to repair the issue
If you should have any further questions please don't hesitate to call me
Brett R***
Brad Smith Roofing Co., Inc
He states that he did not say that we incorrectly installed the guttersHe did think that a larger gutter might help, but did not even site the correct problem (he said the water is running over the gutters, not getting behind the gutters) and he did not guarantee that the 6" gutter would fix the problemAs I will discuss in a minute, this theory that 6" gutters will fix the problem is disproved on one of our visits to the propertyAs far as the issues that the ***'s claim to have with the gutters, none of them should warrant a complaint to the Revdex.com since Mrs*** had been informed of the issues with the 6" gutters and selected 5" instead, and the support to the claim that they were installed incorrectly has been deemed inaccurate by the person that she claims to have made the statement
I will now address the roof installation issue that is present, and the cause of her issueOn one of the many visits to the *** house, we plugged up the downspouts and over flowed the gutters to mimic the scenario of the gutter not handling the volume of water and to see if they would drain over the front of the gutter like a properly installed gutter or flow over the back which could indicate that there was a problem with the installationWhen we did this the gutter overflowed the front of the gutter (Mrs., *** was present for this demonstration, Mr*** was not.) This means that the width of the gutter nor the installation is the problemIf we can't duplicate the water getting behind the gutter when overflowing them, then how can this be a gutter issue? The answer is that it can't beThere must be a roof problemAt that point I took a comprehensive look at the roofFrom what I could see, without ripping up the roof, there were a few issuesOne, the ice and water shield was installed underneath the drip edge, so that any water that did breach the shingle on the flat roof would trickle down to the eave, go under the drip edge and present in between the gutter and fascia board, which is the issue she is complaining aboutAs Brett stated above, there are likely other issues with the roof as far as installation goes, as wellI also noted that the drip edge on the rake of the is installed underneath the eave drip edgeThis is also incorrectAs any of the water that flows down that drip edge can now get underneath the eave drip edgeSo, Mrs***'s assertion that the roof was installed incorrectly is simply not true
We wanted to help The ***'s, as we do not like to have dissatisfied customers, so we requested to speak with Brett from Brad Smith Roofing and her on a three way call in order to find a solution to the problemShe refused and gave us a copy of the quote that he provided to install the 6" gutters saying that this is all the proof that she or we would need to show that we did a bad jobWe found it suspicious that she would refuse to allow us all to speak together to resolve the issueAt that point we took it upon ourselves to contact BrettHe told us that he had explained to her, like he states in his email to us, that she likely has a shingle issue with the flat roofWe asked him why the quote that we were looking at from him was for 6" gutters only, and his response was that she asked for a gutter only quote after hearing everything he had to sayI feel that this quote was requested as a gutter only quote to support her claim that we installed the gutters incorrectly and that she deserves her money backWhen leaving out important facts like this, it looks manipulative, at the least, and could be looked at as fraudulent since she is trying to extract money back from us
During the phone conversation where she states that there was shouting match, Mr*** had repeatedly stated that if we didn't give him $of the cost of the gutters back that he would go around town telling anyone and everyone that we are a "bad company"This threat from him as well as the omitting of pertinent information on the quote/assessment from a third party and attempting to keep the parties involved from speaking so that he could control the information and relay it inaccurately, resembles extortion and at the very least is unethicalWe have tried to work this out with them over several months and with many visits to their homeWe even went as far as to offer to split the cost to fix the problem (which would have cost us more than double any money profited off of them)They declined the offerThis is even referred to in the ***'s complaintIt seems like solving the problem is not what they wantIt seems that all that they want is moneyWe feel that the ***'s complaint is in bad faith and it may contain grounds for liableWe can honestly say that we did nothing wrong, and have tried everything to satisfy the ***'s
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/09/25) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
While we appreciate being informed of the definition of contractor, it is unnecessaryMrS***, who has crafted the response from Holland Remodeling, is a sub-contractor of the companyWe hired Holland Remodeling to do the work and therefore, the company and owner is responsible for the work being done to our satisfactionWhen we spoke to MrK***, the owner, and MrB***, who arrived in a Holland Remodeling truck, our hiring was based on the professionalism of these two individuals; change orders would be made if a problem was found, since they are a construction companyIf we had wanted to hire a man with ladders on a minivan and two guys and a gutter truck, then we would haveBut that is what we got
Secondly, I was never told anything about ice dams on bigger gutters when we first contracted to do the jobMrS*** was on board with 6" guttersThen MsD*** called and said that their truck only made the smaller gutters, but MrS*** said it would be fine since we had the larger downspoutsMrS*** says in his response that the local building supplies has these in stock--that option was never presented to usThe FIRST time he ever said that the larger gutters would create a bigger problem with an ice dam is when he came out in March, because we had an ice damThat is also the first time he addressed the whole "low slope" of our front roofBut here are the questions--another company is willing and able to put the larger gutters up and it is recommended by themIs MrS*** saying that he is more of an expert than Brad Smith Roofing, who he has pointed to as an expert in his response, wanting a conference call and all that? That is a good question
As far as Brad Smith Roofing and my "suspicious" behavior because I did not want to conference call them: I spoke to the representative (Brett R***) twice--once when he came out, and the second time to apologize for MrS*** and Holland Remodeling contacting him and dragging him into this messIt is appalling to me to bring another company in to this dispute, unless you are willing to pay them to do the jobMrsB*** asked me to have them come out in the first place and she could pretend to be my "friend," which I did and have them diagnose the problem of the gutters leaking between the fascia and the gutterI found this highly dishonest but went along with it because I wanted to hear what another company had to sayI also did not say that Brad Smith Roofing said that Holland installed incorrectly; however, what MrR*** said to me was that more hidden hangers should have been used and the larger gutters would have helpedThe fact that Holland has brought them into this is ridiculous if they had a person who knew how to install gutters properlyWhen MrsB***, MrR*** from Brad Smith Roofing, my husband and myself were looking at the gutters, it is apparent that the slope of the gutter from the side is "tweaked." One side of the house the gutter is slanted properly; the other side, where we have problems, the gutter is slanting toward the house--inwardI will attach pictures of thisNothing was said from MrsB***, MrB*** or MrS*** in his subsequent visit to fill the guttersBut that is part of the problem--lack of communication, even when pointed out in emails
As far as numerous visits by MrS***--is three numerous? Three, with no repairs being doneThe first was after the install and after the two sub-contractors came out to fix the fact that you could see daylight between the gutter and fasciaAs stated before, in late November, MrS*** came out, reassured me that Holland had a good reputation, and they would fix the problem in the springAt that time, it had not rained enough for us to see if gutters were leaking in the back, but the weird swoop from screen porch to house and the straight, short gutter needed addressedIt rained extremely hard at the beginning of JanuaryI emailed Lauren D*** on January 4th and Mrand MrsB*** came out on January 5th--again to look at the issuesAt that time, they seemed to agree with us that the gutters were not correctWeather stopped any work (if there was going to be any done) and I called Holland about the ice damMrS*** came out, looked at it and said we needed to let it meltThen nothing from them until I emailed--againIn fact, many of my emails, which are attached, outline the problems with pictures and ask for a resolution--which we still have not gotten
About the proof of filling up the gutter--this does not in any way replicate the conditions of a rain storm and proves nothing, except that the gutter can hold waterI was present because they chose to do this when my husband was not there and it was done to make me look stupidThey also only did the front roofAs far as the ice and water shield being installed under the drip edge--I am not an expert; however, there is a solid disagreement between roofers regarding thisMrS*** jumped on this and has not addressed any issues outside of his determination that there is a problem with the roof--like the amount of hidden hangers, the fact that you can see daylight in places between house and gutter, the two issues I addressed above regarding the two strange downspouts and the downspout by the garage in which I paid $extra to be put underground--which MrS*** was supposed to rent a trencher, but instead had a young man dig out, then they put an old downspout extension that I had from my prior house onto the downspout and buried it undergroundAnd his comprehensive exam consisted of being on the edge with an app on his phone to tell me that the pitch of my roof is not rightTo be clear--the roof over my front porch is not flat, although he refers to that several timesAs a side note, I had to stop MrS*** and the other guy he brought with him from climbing up a metal ladder on the side of the house where the electric line comes inBesides the electrical hazard, the metal ladder was too short (by OSHA standards) to reach the side of the houseI asked them to go up the garage roof
Several times in this response, MrS***, who has crafted the response for Holland Remodeling, has said disturbing things regarding my characterInitially, I did not want my money backIn fact, after the "shouting match"-in which my husband could be heard saying many times--"Are you calling my wife a liar?" I spoke to MrsB*** who asked me what it would take to make this go awayFinally, I said $would help me pay for the gutters to be fixed or replaced--they still have to be done properly before we can landscape, etcHolland Remodeling made no attempt to bring another contractor who would fix the issues in--they could have done that at any time, but chose to stick with MrS***When my husband spoke to MrS***, money was not the issue--instead, the fact that they would not fix the gutters and downspouts that they had installedIt is not bad faith to want a job done correctly, nor is it extortion to want a refund of the money I paid them (and not all of it)There were no repairs done since the sub-contractors from Sheffield Lake came in NovemberThis is not to our satisfaction, nor did Holland or MrS*** attempt to satisfy usMy husband asked for a meeting with the owner and MrS*** at the offices of Holland, but they would not do that, for their own reasons
We, as customers, have a right to complain about a job not done wellMrS*** said that my husband said that we were going to give them a bad review--and yes, he is correct that that was stated, but money was not involved at that point, only getting the work doneSplitting the cost of fixing a six-year roof? NoWe knew that we did not want MrS*** back up on the roof since we could not trust him to fix any of the other issues that he had not fixed
As far as libel, which is not a term to bandy about lightly, in Holland Remodeling's response, there are many implications that we have tried to extort, manipulate, lie and commit fraudIf there is any libel, it is against usIn 2014, we spent over $20,on repairs to our houseWe had plumbers, electricians, septic people--you name it, they were hereAll of them did their work and did it wonderfully, except for Holland RemodelingThe money we spent with Holland was a fraction of what we spent last year, but it has been the most stressfulHolland cannot say that they did nothing wrong
The response from Holland is not satisfactoryFrom Holland Remodeling's response, the only resolution that we can see is to return a portion of our money ($1000), so that we can replace the gutters since Holland will not even consider fixing themAfter the interactions we have had on the phone and their response to the Revdex.com complaint, we do not want any representative from Holland Remodeling on our property
Final Business Response /* (4000, 12, 2015/10/12) */
Although the customer has elaborated on her entire experience she has failed to address the issue that we have tried to get across to herShe has even failed to address this when her contractor of choice has pointed it outThe flat roof above her porch is leaking causing the water to, not only get behind her gutter, but also to fill up the soffit under the porchWe did not install the roof and we are not responsible for it leakingNo amount of money back will fix this issueNo larger gutter will fix this issueBoth of the contractors have told her this and she will not hear itI don't believe that she can be satisfied if she is not going to face reality

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 9, 2015/07/22) */
Contact Name and Title: Joyce B[redacted]
Contact Phone: [redacted]
Contact Email: [redacted]
We did the clients bathroom remodel late last year she was not happy with the finished product we then went back and fixed a few things...

still not happy we started most of it from scratch again I have attached pictures of our finished product and then when she called after we had finished a few months later bathroom was a mess please see attached pictures of before and after
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 11, 2015/07/27) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I'm not really clear what the response is saying, other than I contacted them with additional issues. I would simply like to restate that it was not fixing a few things that I wasn't happy with, implying that my expectations are somehow at fault. These were pretty extensive problems that shouldn't happen when paying for a professional remodel. I will attach my document detailing the timing and extent of the problems. The problem I believe she is referring to as the mess is that the surround and tub were not sealed properly and the drywall is cracked. You can see from my attached pictures that there are other areas where the drywall is cracked as well. These areas are above the surround and showing only minimal seepage at this point. The combination of no sealant and cracked drywall is what lead to the "mess" of water damage and mold. When Holland came on the fourth attempt to fix the poorly mitered door trim, this was told to the worker (I believe his name was Timmy) and not addressed. As such, it has continued to deteriorate. I maintain my original position that all the issues are a result of poor workmanship and will require professional services to correct. As Holland was not able to do this after four attempts, I would like my payments back so that I am able to hire someone who can. Thank you.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 13, 2015/08/08) */
we have been out there to replace what she felt was wrong and have completed pictures. Now they have neglected the space and want me to fix what has been ruined and dirty and I will not.

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 13, 2016/06/08) */
[redacted]
Based on their requested wants needs and desire we were unable to start or even get a contract signed so no work was done for this client no...

transfer of funds sometimes we are just not able to fit every job into our schedule.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 15, 2016/06/10) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
We were not even provided with a contract to sign. We asked several times for the amount of deposit to get the job started. When we requested the bid we made it abundantly clear that we would be providing siding, and windows, it was on our bid, but JOYCE seemed to be unaware. All of our desires were not an issue upon bidding the job. Contractor didn't even advise that there was problem, they just abandoned the upcoming job after giving us a start date of mid April.
JOYCE kept telling us she was working on the contract, but we never received it. How could we sign what we didn't receive.
Ironically, their overabundance of work was not disclosed upon bidding the job. If it had been, we might have made other plans. I find JOYCE's response empty--it's par for the course. There's no information in her response, just lip service.
At this point it doesn't matter. I tell everyone about Holland and the terrible thing they did.