Holtzman Propane LLC

December 7, gallonsJanuary 7, gallons February 11, gallons March 21, gallonsHoltzman Propane can only safety fill the eased tank at this residence to approximately 80-85% (96-gallons if empty) in order to allow for expansion of the product.We received a call from the customer on December 7" stating that the heater at the residence had stopped working and that she needed a deliveryHoltzman Propane responded immediately and found the tank at 20% capacity, not empty, and delivered gallonsThe immediate response with no additional fees to the customer was a result of her automatic fill status with our companyWe at that time left a message advising the customer that "out of product" reports are subject to fees as we have to reroute our delivery staff resulting in schedule changes, however, we would not charge anything additional for this occurrence but suggested they call for service on their heating appliance.On February 11, 2017, the customer called once more reporting that her tank was empty, our staff member after reviewing previous account notes questioned if there was an issue with her heating appliance and then dispatched a driver who found the tank emptyAfter review, Holtzman Propane determined that it would be in the customer's best interest to have a remote tank monitor installedThis technology allows us to monitor the customer's capacity real-time ensuring that they do not run out of product.Holtzman Propane received a call from the customer on April 27' reporting that they had run out once more and that they wished to close their account and change their delivery status to will-callA member of our staff reviewed the closeout process with the customer including all applicable feesWe also advised the customer that her reported tank percentage and our remote report didn't match and that we believed there to be a problem with either her tank or our monitorAfter researching the reported issue, our officedetermined that the customer's tank gauge was stuck resulting in inaccurate reportingWe quickly responded by alerting our service department that the gauge on the tank would need to be repaired in order to eliminate any future problems and enable the remote monitor to report accurately in hopes of resolving the current issue and retain the customers business.The customer called our office once more on May 5, and requested that the tank be removed from their property and the account closedWe advised the customer once more of the closeout process and applicable feesOn May 11, Holtzman Propane removed the tank and equipment and applied both the 50% restocking fee (half of the last paid price per gallon) and a $close out fee to all gallons recovered resulting in a $credit due to the customer.The transaction is as follows:Gallons - Credit for propane in tank at time of pick up at a price per gallon of $1.2995: $Close out fee: $Total Credit: -$7.36Our customer signed Holtzman Propane's standard lease agreement on November 27, agreeing to the terms for the use of Holtzman Propane's gallon propane tank and regulation equipment, which per provision is for three years, ending in November Holtzman Propane chose not to enforce the three-year term although it had a legal right to do so.In regards to the disputed closeout and restocking fee, Holtzman Propane, in order to retrieve the leased tank and equipment, traveled to the customer's property, resulting in labor hours for our service staff as well as labor to return the fuel into our inventoryThe close-out and restocking fees charged are industry standard and Commonly used throughout our industry, not something imposed only by Holtzman PropaneThis is more than fair as we must have some return on our time spent considering that we installed the propane tank on December 8, at no charge to the customerThis included two hours of labor and a safety check of the Customer's home and appliances to ensure their gas system was leak free and safe to use.Holtzman Propane did make numerous attempts to resolve the issue of keeping the customer's tank full with product, the customer's initial concernI do believe the disputed close out fees are fair practice and furthermore, we handled the assessment of those fees fairly and transparently by disclosing them to the customer prior to the tank being removed.Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need any additional information.SincerelyTanya P [redacted] Holtzman Propane

There is no new information in the second response to address that was not already addressed in the first response However, the email address of [redacted] @holtzmanpropane.com referred to in the second response is incorrect Should the complainant wish to forward pictures of the damaged yard, she may send them to [redacted] @holtzmancorp.com and if we caused damage to her yard, this will be addressedSincerely, [redacted] Credit Manager

February 6, 2018Dear [redacted] In response to [redacted] ***'s concerns a letter accompanied by our minimum use invoice was emailed on January 15, The letter, which l have attached, provided him with alternate options to paying the feeHe could purchase the tank and avoid the minimum use fee altogether in future years as he would own the tank and regulation equipment, he could pay to have his tank downsized to a smaller size to fit his usage or he could pay the fee.In the customer's case, he would have been required to take delivery of gallons in the calendar year to avoid this feeThere were gallons delivered in A propane tank is considered full at 80% capacity, which is why his leased gallon underground propane tank only required gallonsThe minimum use fee is a commonly used fee across the propane industry for those customers who lease their tank and equipment, although some propane providers charge it to all of their customers and call it an annual lease feeHoltzman Propane only assesses this fee to those customers who have not used one tank full, and we use this fee to cover the cost of our investment in the tank and regulation equipment at the customer’s home when we have not gotten a return on our investment in a given year of one tank full.As an automatic ?ll customer [redacted] does rely on our company to automatically deliver to his tank however this does not prevent him from calling us to request a delivery as wellOur automatic fill system is based on making deliveries accurately based on the customers past propane consumption with consideration to outside temperatureWe also focus on making efficient deliveries therefore we would not have delivered to him by the end of the year as he was not in need of propane at that timel do believe the fee is fair practice and furthermore, we handle the assessment of these fees fairly and transparentlyWe have used this fee since 2003, and include discussion of the possibility of seeing this fee charged in our new account setup process, as well as having a line item addressing it in our lease agreement [redacted] was notified in a letter in early January of the pending fee and given days to respond, and as mentioned above, we do offer alternatives to paying the feeThe tank and regulation equipment are expensive items, and thebottom line is we must recover a minimum return for them.If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.Sincerely,Tanya P

The minimum use fee is a commonly used fee across the propane industry for those customers who lease their tank and equipment, although some propane providers charge it to all of their customers and call it an "annual lease fee"Holtzman Propane only assesses this fee to those customers who have not taken delivery of one full tank of propane in a calendar year (defined as 80% tank capacity), and we use this fee to cover the cost of our investment in the tank and regulation equipment at the customer's home when we have not gotten a return on our investment[redacted] has been a very good customer since 2007, which we certainly acknowledge and appreciate, and he was assessed this fee only one other year, in January for calendar year 2011, for $ [redacted] references a past fee of $35.00, however that has never been a minimum usage fee amount that we have charged, so I believe he is mistakenHe paid the total of $on January 20, 2012.The minimum usage fee is assessed based on tanksize to those lease customers who have not taken delivery of one full tank's capacity in the previous calendar yearIn [redacted] 's case, he would have needed to take delivery of gallons in the calendar year to avoid this feeHe took delivery of gallons in Additionally, We provide several alternative options to those customers assessed the fee; purchase the tank and avoid the minimum use fee altogether in future years, pay a reduced service call rate to have his tank downsized to a smaller size to fit his usage or pay the fee.I do believe the fee is fair practice and furthermore, we handle the assessment of these fees fairly and transparentlyWe have used this fee since 2003, and include discussion of the possibility of seeing this fee charged in our new account setup process, as well as having a line item addressing ft in our lease agreement.Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need additional information.Sincerely Debbie S [redacted] Holtzman Propane

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the responseIf no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]
Complaint: ***
I am rejecting this response because:To whom it may concern,In response to the counter complaint from Holtzman Propane.I would like to address my views on the situation.....as I mentioned before I was not aware that I needed to open an account with Holtzman Propane as at the time I needed no propaneas far as contacting myself or ** *** *** is untrueI spoke with ** *** and he himself told me he was not contactedAnd employee at Holtzmans told me a voicemail was left for ** ***and it was also stated that ** *** was not notified about the tank being removedI spoke to three different employees and was told different stories, my husband spoke to an employee face to face and was told a different storyAnd about my yard, I told all three employees that my yard was damaged and ** *** told an employee about my yardI took pictures of my yard and was given an email address to send them to ***@HoltzmanPropane.comI have been 100% honest about this situation more than I can say about some of Holtzman employeesI have known Bill Holtzman my whole life and I've always respected himI just cant believe he lets these things in his business happen. Respectfully,*** * ***

February 6, 2018Dear *** ***,The delivery in question was requested by our customer on January 2nd with a reported current tank reading of 20%The account for propane service is will-call which means that the customer has chosen to request their deliveries unlike the majority of our customers
who allow Holtzman Propane to plan and schedule their deliveries automaticallyFor this customer type we do our very best to respond with a delivery within business days from the customers initial requestThe customer has a gallon above ground leased propane tank,which holds at its full capacity of 80%, approximately gallons therefore the customer at time of delivery request had gallons of propane.The initial delivery request was received on January 2nd, operating within our business day window this would allow our company to make delivery on or by January 9thWe received several calls from the customer with updated percentages and demands for immediate responseIt is our policy that if a will-call customer wants immediate response prior to their 5th business day that they pay additional fees to do soThis is an industry standard and is necessary as we must deviate from our daily schedule, many times bypassing automatic fill customers and driving extra miles outside of our drivers designated route to respond.I spoke to the customer's mother-in-law on the 9th who had reported that her son-in-law and daughter were upset about not yet receiving their delivery and ensured her that they would be receiving propane that dayI also asked that they consider changing their account to automatic fill and setting up a payment plan so that our company could better manage and plan their deliveries thus eliminating the extra fees and issues that could arise from having a will-call account.We responded on the 9th, the 5th business day, with a delivery without any additional fees to the customerAs of today we have not received a requested from the customer to change to automatic fill.Please don't hesitate to contact me if you need any additional informationSincerelyTanya P

This is in response to complaint ID *** dated 1/13/ After discussing the situation with the customer, we agreed we had more time than was reasonable invested in this particular job, so we have come to a mutually agreeable resolution to reduce his bill to $500.Thank you,Lynn
H***Holtzman Propane

We appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customer's concern regarding our delivery guidelines and wanted to explain the reason for this policyOne of the most inefficient and expensive endeavors for our company is to send a delivery truck out to make a delivery to a tank that only takes a
small amount of fuelTruck expenses for our propane delivery bobtails are extremely high and include truck maintenance, fuel and personnel.Our goal is to balance the absolute need for our trucks to make efficient deliveries (an efficient delivery is when a tank reaches 20%) in order to help keep our per gallon prices low for all customersWe understand that some customers may want a delivery no matter what percentage is in their tankWe choose to handle this by charging a surcharge for inefficient deliveries instead of raising our overall per gallon prices for all customers like many other companies choose to doOur policy for minimum deliveries is as follows:Our standard minimum deliveries are:gallons for 500-gallon tanks or smaller, and gallons for 1000-gallon tanksin cases of hardship or when a customer requests delivery for less than our minimum, the following surcharges apply:$per gallon markup for tanks reading over 60%; or $cent per gallon markup for tanks reading over 40%Again, thank you for the opportunity to explain in writing the reason behind our delivery policies.Sincerely, Debbie S*** Credit Manager

December 7, 2016 72.6 gallonsJanuary 7, 2017 99.3 gallons February 11, 2017 101 gallons March 21, 2017 77.3 gallonsHoltzman Propane can only safety fill the eased tank at this residence to approximately 80-85% (96-100 gallons if empty) in order to allow for expansion of the product.We received a...

call from the customer on December 7" stating that the heater at the residence had stopped working and that she needed a delivery. Holtzman Propane responded immediately and found the tank at 20% capacity, not empty, and delivered 77.3 gallons. The immediate response with no additional fees to the customer was a result of her automatic fill status with our company. We at that time left a message advising the customer that false "out of product" reports are subject to fees as we have to reroute our delivery staff resulting in schedule changes, however, we would not charge anything additional for this occurrence but suggested they call for service on their heating appliance.On February 11, 2017, the customer called once more reporting that her tank was empty, our staff member after reviewing previous account notes questioned if there was an issue with her heating appliance and then dispatched a driver who found the tank empty. After review, Holtzman Propane determined that it would be in the customer's best interest to have a remote tank monitor installed. This technology allows us to monitor the customer's capacity real-time ensuring that they do not run out of product.Holtzman Propane received a call from the customer on April 27' reporting that they had run out once more and that they wished to close their account and change their delivery status to will-call. A member of our staff reviewed the closeout process with the customer including all applicable fees. We also advised the customer that her reported tank percentage and our remote report didn't match and that we believed there to be a problem with either her tank or our monitor. After researching the reported issue, our officedetermined that the customer's tank gauge was stuck resulting in inaccurate reporting. We quickly responded by alerting our service department that the gauge on the tank would need to be repaired in order to eliminate any future problems and enable the remote monitor to report accurately in hopes of resolving the current issue and retain the customers business.The customer called our office once more on May 5, 2017 and requested that the tank be removed from their property and the account closed. We advised the customer once more of the closeout process and applicable fees. On May 11, 2017 Holtzman Propane removed the tank and equipment and applied both the 50% restocking fee (half of the last paid price per gallon) and a $94 close out fee to all gallons recovered resulting in a $7.36 credit due to the customer.The transaction is as follows:78 Gallons - Credit for propane in tank at time of pick up at a price per gallon of $1.2995: $101.36 Close out fee: $94.00 Total Credit: -$7.36Our customer signed Holtzman Propane's standard lease agreement on November 27, 2017 agreeing to the terms for the use of Holtzman Propane's 120 gallon propane tank and regulation equipment, which per provision 1 is for three years, ending in November 2018. Holtzman Propane chose not to enforce the three-year term although it had a legal right to do so.In regards to the disputed closeout and restocking fee, Holtzman Propane, in order to retrieve the leased tank and equipment, traveled to the customer's property, resulting in labor hours for our service staff as well as labor to return the fuel into our inventory. The close-out and restocking fees charged are industry standard and Commonly used throughout our industry, not something imposed only by Holtzman Propane. This is more than fair as we must have some return on our time spent considering that we installed the propane tank on December 8, 2015 at no charge to the customer. This included two hours of labor and a safety check of the Customer's home and appliances to ensure their gas system was leak free and safe to use.Holtzman Propane did make numerous attempts to resolve the issue of keeping the customer's tank full with product, the customer's initial concern. I do believe the disputed close out fees are fair practice and furthermore, we handled the assessment of those fees fairly and transparently by disclosing them to the customer prior to the tank being removed.Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need any additional information.SincerelyTanya P[redacted] Holtzman Propane

There is no new information in the second response to address that was not already addressed in the first response.  However, the email address of [redacted]@holtzmanpropane.com referred to in the second response is incorrect.  Should the complainant wish to forward pictures of the damaged yard, she may send them to [redacted]@holtzmancorp.com and if we caused damage to her yard, this will be addressed. Sincerely,[redacted]Credit Manager

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is unsatisfactory to me but I appear to have no options.  The business could have warned me that I faced an additional fee and given me the opportunity to purchase the amount of product that would have satisfied them. Instead, I end up having to pay a fee and get nothing in return. The reason there was no delivery in 2016 is that I am trying to conserve and save money. Imagine my surprise when I get a bill with for no tangible product?I'd like to thank Holtzman's for nothing. "Holtzman keeps you covered, safe, informed." Yep. Right. Informed.
Regards,
[redacted]

The minimum use fee is a commonly used fee across the propane industry for those customers who lease their tank and equipment, although some propane providers charge it to all of their customers and call it an "annual lease fee". Holtzman Propane only assesses this fee to those customers who have...

not taken delivery of one full tank of propane in a calendar year (defined as 80% tank capacity), and we use this fee to cover the cost of our investment in the tank and regulation equipment at the customer's home when we have not gotten a return on our investment.[redacted] has been a very good customer since 2007, which we certainly acknowledge and appreciate, and he was assessed this fee only one other year, in January 2012 for calendar year 2011, for $131.25. [redacted] references a past fee of $35.00, however that has never been a minimum usage fee amount that we have charged, so I believe he is mistaken. He paid the total of $131.25 on January 20, 2012.The minimum usage fee is assessed based on tanksize to those lease customers who have not taken delivery of one full tank's capacity in the previous calendar year. In [redacted]'s case, he would have needed to take delivery of 400 gallons in the calendar year 2016 to avoid this fee. He took delivery of 223.9 gallons in 2016. Additionally, We provide several alternative options to those customers assessed the fee; purchase the tank and avoid the minimum use fee altogether in future years, pay a reduced service call rate to have his tank downsized to a smaller size to fit his usage or pay the fee.I do believe the fee is fair practice and furthermore, we handle the assessment of these fees fairly and transparently. We have used this fee since 2003, and include discussion of the possibility of seeing this fee charged in our new account setup process, as well as having a line item addressing ft in our lease agreement.Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need additional information.Sincerely Debbie S[redacted] Holtzman Propane

Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:
Holtzman Propane states that these "restocking fees" are industry standard when that is in fact a falsification. I have called other local Propane companies, and all others purchase propane back from their customers at the price the customer paid for it. Additionally, they state that the $94 fee is for labor to remove the tank. I must argue that this is an outrageous fee. Even if it took 3 hours to remove the tank (which is an extreme exaggeration) that would be a charge of over $30/hour! Which I find hard to believe is the going rate for common labor. The total experience, treatment from staff, and our tank continuously running empty was included in the complaint only to document the 360 degree horrible experience that we have been put through since opening an account with Holtzman Propane. The true issue is the hidden fees when closing an account. They seem proud to state that they include everything in the fine print when the contract is signed, and have no ethical compass or moral issue with charging people an arm and a leg when the time comes to pull out the fine print and make their profits. Whether or not it is "included in the contract", I believe that companies who do good, honest business disclose any and all fees verbally before anything is solidified in writing. A 50% "restocking fee" is far from acceptable and not at all industry standard as they claim, especially in addition to a $94 fee. No matter the outcome of this complaint, if not resolved by the business, I can only hope that other consumers will heed my warning as I go public, and choose any company other than Holtzman Propane. 
Regards,
[redacted]

The minimum use fee is a commonly used fee across the propane industry for those customers who lease their tank and equipment from their propane supplier, although some propane providers charge it to all of their customers and call it an "annual lease fee". Holtzman Propane only assesses this fee to...

those customers who have not taken delivery of one full tank of propane (defined as 80% of the tank's capacity), and we use this fee to cover the cost of our investment in the tank and regulation equipment at the customer's home when we have not gotten a return on our investment in a given calendar year of one full tank. This fee assessed to only those customers who have not used a minimum amount allows us to keep our per gallon prices low across our entire customer base.[redacted] has two 120 gallon leased tanks at his property, which would require him to take delivery of 200 gallons to meet minimum usage (240 gallons total onsite x 80% capacity). [redacted]'s last fuel delivery was made on March 10, 2015 and he had zero gallons delivered in 2016.We have applied this fee in this manner since 2003, and include discussion of the possibility of seeing this fee charged in our new account setup process, as well as having a line item addressing it in our lease agreement. I have included [redacted]'s lease agreement from 2012 (Attachment A), which you will note in item #9 addresses the yearly fee. [redacted] was mailed a letter explaining the minimum use fee on January 31, 2016, along with an invoice with 30 day terms.Please do not hesitate to contact me if you need any additional information.Sincerely,Debbie S[redacted] Credit Manager

February 6, 2018Dear [redacted]In response to [redacted]'s concerns a letter accompanied by our minimum use invoice was emailed on January 15, 2018. The letter, which l have attached, provided him with alternate options to paying the fee. He could purchase the tank and avoid the minimum...

use fee altogether in future years as he would own the tank and regulation equipment, he could pay to have his tank downsized to a smaller size to fit his usage or he could pay the fee.In the customer's case, he would have been required to take delivery of 800 gallons in the calendar year 2017 to avoid this fee. There were 562.6 gallons delivered in 2017. A propane tank is considered full at 80% capacity, which is why his leased 1000 gallon underground propane tank only required 800 gallons. The minimum use fee is a commonly used fee across the propane industry for those customers who lease their tank and equipment, although some propane providers charge it to all of their customers and call it an annual lease fee. Holtzman Propane only assesses this fee to those customers who have not used one tank full, and we use this fee to cover the cost of our investment in the tank and regulation equipment at the customer’s home when we have not gotten a return on our investment in a given year of one tank full.As an automatic ?ll customer [redacted] does rely on our company to automatically deliver to his tank however this does not prevent him from calling us to request a delivery as well. Our automatic fill system is based on making deliveries accurately based on the customers past propane consumption with consideration to outside temperature. We also focus on making efficient deliveries therefore we would not have delivered to him by the end of the year as he was not in need of propane at that time. l do believe the fee is fair practice and furthermore, we handle the assessment of these fees fairly and transparently. We have used this fee since 2003, and include discussion of the possibility of seeing this fee charged in our new account setup process, as well as having a line item addressing it in our lease agreement. [redacted] was notified in a letter in early January 2018 of the pending fee and given 30 days to respond, and as mentioned above, we do offer alternatives to paying the fee. The tank and regulation equipment are expensive items, and thebottom line is we must recover a minimum return for them.If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.Sincerely,Tanya P

In response to the above-referenced Complaint, Holtzman Propane (“Holtzman") responds as follows:A utility account was opened on August 15, 2012 for Holtzman's customer (“Customer”); and Customer contacted Holtzman on November 21, 2014 to report that house was being sold and requested that...

his utility account be closed; and Holtzman advised Customer that his account was closed and Buyer would need to establish their own utility account; and On February 29, 2016, Holtzman contacted Customer to advise that tank would be picked up on March 1, 2016 as protocol for closing utility account when Buyer had not established account; and It is common practice for companies providing a utility to require new owners to establish their own account; and * Regardless if Customer and Buyer had an agreement regarding the propane in the tank, Holtzman was not party to such agreement;  Customer signed Equipment Lease Agreement when establishing his account Holtzman. Said Lease specifies that standard closeout and restocking fees apply when closing utility account; and  Should a refund be due after closeout and restocking fees, payment would be made payable to Customer as utilityaccount is in Customer's name; and  Five telephone conversations were logged between Buyer and Holtzman employees after tank was picked up. As damage to yard was not mentioned by buyer in any of those conversations, this allegation will be dismissed by Holtzman as untrue.Please feel free to contact me should this not address all concerns.Sincerely,Debbie S[redacted] Credit Manager