Holtzman Propane

March 5, 2015Dear Sir or Madam, This is in response to complaint D [redacted] , from [redacted] ***As I mentioned in my previous letter, our lease agreement does state that we reserve the right to charge a yearly feeWe don't hide this fact, as evidenced by the fact that it is stated on the lease and we discuss it openly and fully with anyone questioning it during or after account setupI'm sorry that I can't appease [redacted] any further than providing this fact again Sincerely,Lynn H

March 5, 2015Dear Sir or Madam,
This is in response to complaint D [redacted], from [redacted].
As I mentioned in my previous letter, our lease agreement does state that we reserve the right to charge a yearly fee. We don't hide this fact, as evidenced by the fact that it is stated on the lease and we discuss it openly and fully with anyone questioning it during or after account setup. I'm sorry that I can't appease [redacted] any further than providing this fact again.
Sincerely,Lynn H

February 2, 2015
Dear Sir or Madam,
This is in response to complaint ID [redacted], from [redacted].
Holtzman Propane assesses the industry standard minimum use fee every January to those customers who lease tanks from us, who have not taken delivery of 1 tank full of...

propane in the calendar year. Tank full is defined as 80% of total capacity of the customer's tank size. Calendar year is defined as January 1st-December 31st for this program. [redacted]'s concern with the timing of his account setup vs. the Jan-Dec calendar year assessment isn't applicable because we do not assess any minimum use fees until the customer's 1st full calendar year of use. For [redacted], this means we did not assess any fees in 2013 because his account had only been opened in April of that year, and we did not begin tracking usage until his first year of full service, January 1, 2014-December 31, 2014.Secondly, [redacted] acknowledges that his lease terms do specify Holtzman Propane's right to charge a yearly fee but his dispute appears only to be in the wording of it. The minimum use fee, as I mentioned before, is an industry standard fee. Most propane suppliers levy this fee to offset the investment in tanks and equipment for leased customers, if a minimum has not been met. The tank and equipment that [redacted] leases from us are a very expensive investment, and without a minimum return on investment of 1 tank full of propane per year, the fee is a means to offset that investment.Sincerely,Lynn H

[To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed Administratively Resolved]
 Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:Ms. Holtzman's response completely bypasses the issue. She states requirements for the account that are not listed in the contract which I've signed. This is an unethical business practice, which I've already stated in my initial complaint. Additionally she states that my argument is invalid because they don't as minimum use until the first full complete calendar year, which again is not stated in my contract. It's clearly stated that my contract runs from April to April of each year. That is clear and unquestionable. Last time I checked you cannot start adding terms and conditions that are not listed in a binding contract. She mentions the fee is industry standard. Well last time I checked industry standard is to be up front with the consumer and tell them that there is a specific requirement on the account before charging them and telling them after the fact. This is equivalent to leasing a car, but the dealer not stating or listing a maximum mileage requirement and only telling you after the fact.  Ms. Holztman should run for political office with the way she so graciously attempted to speak her way through the pertinent contractual issues, but sorry I'm not blinded by the subterfuge. 
Regards,
[redacted]

We received a letter today from Holtzman Propane informing us that they no longer will be mailing paper invoices or statements. Instead they are requiring an e-mail address to send this information. I called the telephone number listed in the letter and it was suggested to me that I ask a relative or friend/ neighbor to receive this information. The only other alternative is to be charged $1.00 for each invoice, statement of auto-pay yearly contract to be mail to billing address. Also you must call the company to request one.
No other company that we deal with has ever made this a requirement. It is an option your can choose for convenience, but only if you desire to do so.
I filed a complaint with the company. I have serious doubts anything will come of it.
This is just another charge that Holtzman Propane is piling on to squeeze every dollar from us they can. If you are skeptical of my statement please read other reviews that describe various situations where customers are charged extra because they didn't use enough fuel (min 400 gallons) so they are charged extra and there are more situations described in other reviews.
Apparently this company does not care what a burden this puts on customers who cannot afford or do not have access to e-mail and a computer. We are a captive audience and therefore vulnerable to any additional charges they wish to add to our bills, whether we can afford it or not.

Holtzman propane penalizes its loyal customers for conserving energy. I have a 500 gallon tank and Holtzman has decided to add "minimum use fee" (MUF) to their loyal customers since their multi-millionaire owner can never get enough. This MUF is really a "conservation of energy penalty" or a "few extra bucks for my already fat wallet fee". Since I was short of using 400 gallons last year I was gouged for an extra $125. After all the poor old millionaire has to put food on the table for his children. But this monopolistic ploy is not enough for the man. I got 200 gallons put in early this year and yesterday when I called to ask for 200 more gallons to avoid the MUF I was informed that they "can't" deliver propane unless my meter is under 40%. The lady I spoke with said "we can't just deliver 10 or 15 gallons to people". Apart from the fact that they can deliver the propane but won't, the idea that it is too inconvenient for them to deliver 200 gallons of propane for $578 because it is such a "small" amount is preposterous.

But if I pay 40 cents extra a gallon it all of a sudden is not so inconvenient for them. Yes for a mere $80 more than it should cost I can get them to deliver propane as they graciously allow me to avoid paying $125 extra.

The owner only cares about money and not simply a decent profit but all he can legally gouge from his loyal customers. It is never enough for the filthy rich, they always have to have more, and at the expense of those who barely get by when the pricing is fair. To add insult to injury we were not even notified of this change. I mean after all what's an extra $80 bucks at Christmas? He makes the rules up as he goes along and the unwary customer just has to play along. What happens when he charges $1250 MUF? What about an extra $800 because I want "only" 200 gallons? Is there any limit to the extra fees he can charge? I asked a representative this very question last year and got no response. And that is a scary thought.

We are a single income family with young children of meager means and I’m sure others they “serve” are even worse off, yet this is the second time we have found out that our pockets need to be picked by the multi-millionaire owner of Holtzman propane. First the $125 MUF and now the extra "$80 because $578 is to little to make delivery worth our while fee". And both just in time for Christmas.

Where does the owner think we get the money from? We don't pluck from trees. Would a kidney work for him? I offered the President of the company (I suppose another poor man barely scraping by that needs the poor to pitch in and help) to put the $80 cash directly in his pocket so he could avoid administrative costs. He hasn't responded to that offer. But that probably would not be a good idea on my part as I'm sure I would be charged a gas fee, and a wear and tear on his car fee for the trip he would have to make, and perhaps I would have to pick up the bill for the groceries he gets on his way home.

Holtzman is not a company we chose but is a company we inherited with the house. We are stuck with them as the charge to buy the tank (which we "lease", though since 2007 when we moved in it has paid for itself several times over, and all their tanks have paid for themselves many times over since they were bought in 1972) would be $1441.68.

Of course a look at their internet site does not reveal these hidden charges nor show how much it would cost to move on from them. But gratefully it shows other corporations they own which we can now scrupulously avoid.

Swell corporation those Holtzman guys are; if you want to start giving to a new charity.

Review: They started collections against me in the court system in [redacted] county that I was not a signer on nor did they have any contract signed by me. The court removed the case. I had to go through all the stress for something I had no obligation to pay. They do not disclose to clients the contracts that they sign. Their lending practice and court proceeding filed in the [redacted] county should be investigated. I am not convinced that they are following all the law in place to lend and collect funds. Please investigate to protect other individuals that may encounter such strong arm tactics.Desired Settlement: I would like to see this posted to your website for the maximum amount time for people to review. If theirs is a fine that can be accessed I would appreciate that you do so. I would like a confirmation of action taken. Please let me know if you need any additional information.

Business

Response:

This customer is an angry individual who believes that she should not have to pay for the fuel that she received. Our Warrant in Debt was originally filed against her and her husband. When we discovered she did not sign the application, we (not the court) removed her name from the suit. Suit was filed based on our contract which the court upheld. This customer made erroneous deductions (such as deducting $50 from her fuel bill because she claims someone in our office called her husband a liar). We have obtained judgment against her husband for the unpaid bill and a garnishment is pending. There is nothing more to respond to in this matter.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution would be satisfactory to me. I will wait for the business to perform this action and, if it does, will consider this complaint resolved.

Regards,

Review: We have been using Holtzman Propane since 2010. They are the ONLY propane company in the [redacted] area. Typically we have used less than 400 gallons of propane per year and had never been notified of a usage fee. This year we received notice that because our propane usage is under 400 gallons for the 2014 calendar year we will be charged a minimum use requirement fee of $125 as of January 05, 2015 if we fail to purchase more propane by December 20, 2014. Nothing in our agreement with Holtzman Propane provides for them to charge us because we didn't buy enough propane from them. This is nothing less than extortion!!Desired Settlement: No minimum use requirement fee to be charged to us or any other Holtzman customer.

Business

Response:

Attached please find account details from our propane department regarding Ms. [redacted], ID [redacted]. If Ms. [redacted] should have additional questions, she may contact [redacted] at [redacted].

Business

Response:

Ms. [redacted]’ property in [redacted] is in a development which Holtzman Propane services. Holtzman Propane was contracted by the builder to provide gas service to the residence. Holtzman Propane installed 500 gallon underground propane tanks at each home site within the development at the builder’s request. The yearly fee referenced is what is also termed the ‘minimum usage charge’ and it is a fee assessed based on tank size to those lease customers who have not taken delivery of 1 full tank’s capacity in the previous calendar year. In Ms. [redacted]’s case, she is required to take delivery of 400 gallons in the calendar year 2014 to avoid this fee. A propane tank is considered full at 80% capacity, which is why her 500 gallon tank only requires 400 gallons.The minimum use fee is a commonly used fee across the propane industry for those customers who lease their tank and equipment, although some propane providers charge it to all of their customers and call it an annual lease fee. Holtzman Propane only assesses this fee to those customers who have not used one tank full, and we use this fee to cover the cost of our investment in the tank and regulation equipment at the customer’s home when we have not gotten a return on our investment in a given year of one tank full. We notified Ms. [redacted], in writing, of the potential of the fee on November 15, 2014 (Attachment page 1), and you’ll note this was a letter to notify the customer that they were at risk of the fee, not that they would definitely be charged. In the event that she does not meet the usage she will receive an invoice in January 2015, which will provide her with additional options; She could purchase the tank and avoid the minimum use fee altogether in future years as she would own the tank and regulation equipment, she could pay to have the tank downsized to a smaller size to fit her usage or she could pay the fee.I do believe the fee is fair practice and furthermore, we handle the assessment of these fees fairly and transparently. We have used this fee since 2003, and include discussion of the possibility of seeing this fee charged in our new account setup process. Ms. [redacted] is in receipt of a courtesy warning letter, we do not send this letter to all of our customers at risk of the fee but felt that since the development that the home is located in had multiple customers that would be receiving the fee for the first time this year we would notify them well in advance so that they could prepare for or avoid the fee, and as mentioned above, we do offer alternatives to paying the fee. The tank and regulation equipment are expensive items, and the bottom line is we must recover a minimum return for them.Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you need any additional information.Sincerely,[redacted]

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response offer made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.In response to Ms. [redacted] of Holtzman Propane: I have not been provided any documentation from Holtzman Propane that indicates I am required to purchase a minimum of 400 gallons of propane in a calendar year. Ms. [redacted]’s reference to an industry standard does not explain why we were not given notice of this requirement. Sending a ‘heads up’ letter on November 15, 2014 is not disclosure of a contract agreement. Also, the options of purchasing more propane by December 20, 2014 she refers to, unfortunately is not applicable to my property as my tank is currently at the maximum of 90% and cannot hold enough newly purchased gallons to reach the response’s stated requirement of a 400 gallon minimum. Furthermore, this property has been in my family for twelve years and this is the first instance in our twelve year relationship with Holtzman Propane where the question of our product consumption was “at risk” of not satisfying Holtzman’s investment projections. Per Ms. [redacted]’s letter, it is discouraging to learn that a number of our elderly neighbors have been labeled “at risk” by Holtzman’s “bottom line” as well. I reject Ms. [redacted]’s response as a veiled attempt at explaining why Holtzman Propane delights in inventing new ideas of how to fleece the coins out of the pockets the poor and the retired attempting to exist on meager fixed incomes. While passing off these undocumented, undisclosed charges as fair business practices. Regards,

Business

Response:

Our minimum use program is not an easy policy to administer but it is a necessary one if Holtzman Propane aspires tokeep propane prices lower than the competition. Some customers believe that this policy is unfair. However, themajority of our customers understand the need to charge the fee and the reasoning behind it.The tank we own on Ms. [redacted] property has a retail value of over $1,600.00. We believe our policy to charge a yearlyfee if one tank of propane is not purchased within each calendar year is reasonable in exchange for offering lowerpropane prices. It would be much easier for Holtzman Propane to simply increase our per gallon price to cover the costof our investment but we choose to keep our prices lower for the majority of our customers and charge a yearly feewhen that minimum purchase requirement is not met.Many gas companies would give a great introductory price and once they obtain the customer's business, wouldincrease the per gallon price to cover tank and equipment expenses. Holtzman Propane always shows the price pergallon on our delivery tickets, we have only a $4.00 delivery fee and we have never charged $4.00 to $5.00 per gallon asour competitors had just last winter.I understand that Ms. [redacted] may not have been aware that this fee was a possibility as she was just recently added tothis existing account. The annual fee is included in item #9 in our lease agreement and would have been discussed withthe new account holder when the account was established in 2003. I am enclosing the most recent copy of our leaseagreement for the address in question. We explain the minimum use fee but it is rarely an issue with larger homes.Regardless if Ms. [redacted] had prior knowledge of our policy, we believe it is fair, as do the majority of our customers, andwe send a letter explaining the policy thoroughly when we determine an account may need to place an order to avoidthe fee.Thank you,[redacted]Holtzman Propane

Review: Holtzman Propane quoted a fixed price for the installation of propane lines at my house. After the work was completed they charged extra fees. I find this practice deceitful and inequitable.

Holtzman Propane quoted $450 for the first appliance to be installed, the water heater. And then charged $199 for each additional appliance; the stove, the fireplace, and the outside grill plus the permit fee of $51 and gas. I agreed to pay 450 + 199 +199 +199 + 51 (permit) + 103.61 (Fuel) = $1201.61. They charged $1612.99 which, according to Holzman Propane, is for extra outside lines ($105) and extra day labor (306.38).

In an email from Holtzman Propane, they say “The reason why I wanted to look at your file is because when lines are run along a foundation, wall, fence, etc; the $ 199 price includes up to fifty feet of lines.” In fact, the tanks were placed against the foundation and the lines were run along the foundation wall to the tanks. The outside grill installation was covered in one of the $199 charges. So what Holtzman Propane is trying to do is charge $199 for the installation of the outside grill + an additional $105 for the outside lines. Holtzman Propane should either charge the $199 fee or the outside line fee, not both. On top of this, I dug the ditch for the outside line so Holtzman Propane had no expenses for digging.

Concerning the $306.38 charge I do not know what this is for since Holtzman Propane quoted a fixed price for the installation and I did not ask for additional work to be done. The property was ready for installation in the time allotted from my end. Holtzman Propane recommended, on the first day on the job, that they take an additional day to get a different tank as the one they brought could not be installed. Holtzman Propane certainly could have finished on the first day if Holtzman Propane had the right tank(s). It was Holtzman Propane who said they could not install the 250 gallon tank and needed to come back. If Holtzman Propane decided to come back three more days then they would continue to charge at $120/hr? This is a bizarre business practice and as a customer I do not approve.

I am not happy with the practice of quoting a fixed price and then charging more after the job is done. I have written several letters to Holtzman Propane and I find it strange for a company to not provide a written response to my letters. I find this entire experience deceitful and feel taken advantage of.Desired Settlement: Holtzman Propane to refund $411.38 for the installation of outside lines and the additional day labor.

Business

Response:

We have reviewed your concerns regarding the billing of the installation and lines for your propane tank at your residence. After reviewing your account we believe that our pricing is fair and you were billed in accordance with the documentation that you signed for the installation.

You are correct that lines run along the foundation are included in the package, with up to 50 feet provided per appliance. The lines in dispute were not run along a foundation however, as they were run underground, underground lines are not included in the package and therefore are priced separately on the initial installation quote. Since we value you as a customer we are waiving the $105.00 fee for the underground lines.

We will also me removing $6.38 from the additional trip you were invoiced for as you should have been invoiced for the 3rd trip and not the 2nd as the first two trips were included in the package pricing the difference of these 2 trips is $6.38. You will notice that the additional trips were included in the original documentation provided to you, "2 trips are allowed for the package to be scheduled and completed within 6 months of the date of this agreement. All other trips are billable to the customer." This information was also explained to you when the work order was entered for the additional trip.

The quote that you received and agreed to before the work began is an estimate, and while we do our best to provide the closest estimate possible we cannot predict every issue the technicians may run into in the field. It is not our practice to do a site survey for every job completed, we expect to be able to work with the customer and the information provided to us to make the job run as smoothly as possible.

In conclusion, the original amount quoted to you was $1612.99, your new total for the installation is $1720.59. We take great pride in our commitment to customer service excellence. We look forward to serving you for your propane needs.

Sincerely,

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by Holtzman Propane in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

It is disappointing that they

only respond after a formal complaint is filed.

Although Holtzman Propane states they think their pricing is fair, I do

not think it is fair to quote a fixed price and then charge additional fees

after the work is completed.

Thank you for adjusting your

records to remove the $105 fee for the outside lines. That is 25% towards a satisfactory resolution.

I think Holtzman Propane is still

missing the main point. They added days

to this job and then charged the customer for the extra time/days. Holtzman Propane delayed the job, not the

customer. And then they want to charge whatever

they like due to this change. Why not

add five more days to the job and charge additional money? I do not care how many days are included in

the job, the bottom line is this was quoted as a fixed price. And nobody

“explained” any different as Holtzman Propane alleges.

I accept that fact that the numbers

given was an estimate. However, an

estimate stays within 10% of the actual final price. In this case, Holtzman Propanes final price

was nearly 30% higher than the “estimate”.

What good is an estimate if it is that far off?

If Holtzman Propane is indeed

refunding $105 at this time, how does my total due increase from $1612.99 to

$1720.59. You are increasing my fees

once again by another $107.60. This is

funny math.

In summary, we are making progress

on a resolution. I am asking that the

$300 additional fee that Holtzman Propane be removed and I will be satisfied. Otherwise, I will find another propane

provider.

Regards,

Business

Response:

l have attached a timeline of the attempted communications to resolve this issue with the customer. We have

made multiple attempts via email and phone to contact Mr. [redacted] to address his concerns and resolve this

matter in a timely fashion. As you can see from the list of communications Mr. [redacted] clearly does not want to

discuss a resolution to th¡s matter with us.

ln regards to the additional fees, the original documentation signed by Mr. [redacted] when the account was

established clearly states that two trips are included in the pricing, any additional would be billed separately. This

was also explained to Mr. [redacted] over the phone on the first day of the job when we realized that it would take

longer than his original quote. This was also noted on the work order signed by Mr. [redacted] at the time of

service.

9/10/13 - 9/13/13 Dates of original install

9/16/13 Customer's original complaint (email)

9/18/13 [redacted] Called Customer- left message

9/23/13 [redacted] Called Customer- left message

10/2/13 Customers 2nd complaint (email)

10/4/13 [redacted] responded via email asking for customer to call

10/4/13 Customer responded asking for email response to complaint

10/7/13 [redacted] emailed customer written respone

10/9/13 Customer responded via email asking for complaint to be escalated to manager

10/16/13 [redacted] called customer - left message

10/17/13 [redacted] emailed customer asking for return call

10/24/13 [redacted] called customer regarding past due balance

10/28/13 Customer called answering service, detailed invoice was emailed to customer, [redacted] also left message for customer letting him know invoice was emailed.

10/31/13 [redacted] called customer asking for return call

11/1/13 [redacted] called customer and left message for return call [redacted] also emailed customer regarding complaint/past due balance

11/1/13 Customer called to speak with [redacted] spoke with customer and explained charges as well as emailed him that charges were billed correctly

11/3/13 Customer replied to [redacted]s email- disputing charges

11/4/13 [redacted] called customer asking for return call

11/6/13 Customer responded to [redacted] stating he had received [redacted]'s call, but was at work and could not respond.

11/14/13 Customer emailed [redacted] that he has sent in payment, [redacted] replied explaining balance due

11/21/13 [redacted] emailed customer to verify he had received previous correspondence regarding concern.

11/25/13 Customer written complaint mailed

12/6/13 Final written response emailed to customer

12/9/13 [redacted] emailed customer current account balance and left voicemail to verify he had received emails from herself and [redacted].

12/13/13 Customer replied to [redacted]'s email that he had received emails from her and [redacted]

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that they have not proposed an action to resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I am making below.

Holtzman Propane claims to have tried to contact me via

email and phone. My phone was out for

repair since the middle of September so I never received any messages. And I am not good with the email. I wrote multiple formal letters and mailed via

USPS to Holtzman Propane. As a

professional courtesy, I expected a reply in the same form. Holtzman Propane claims I do not want to discuss

a resolution to this issue but it is Holtzman Propane who did not respond in writing

to me.

Bottom Line: Although Holtzman Propane states the charges

are billed correctly, they are trying to increase their profits by overcharging

for work performed and extending work to charge for extra hours. I was given a fixed price to do the work. Holtzman Propane is still charging $300 for

additional hours after receiving over $1600. This issue will be resolved if Holtzman Propane removes the $300 charge. Otherwise,

I will be finding another propane company as Holtzman Propane practices

are unfair and it is clear they do not value me as a customer.

Regards,

Business

Response:

Dear Mr. [redacted]:

I would like to thoroughly explain our installation process and how it relates to your job specifically so that you may better understand our billing. When a customer calls our office to establish service, the customer will work with one of our customer service representatives to set up an account and work out the details of the installation. We do not send a technician to the location to do a Site survey. The installation estimate is based upon the information provided to us by the customer through this initial telephone conversation and the tank location form

that the customer completes and signs.

Our installation package is $450.00 for the Initial appliance and $199.00 for each additional appliance. This price includes 50' of interior gas lines per appliance. The propane, permit and any exterior lines are an additional price and the exterior lines are charged at $3.50 per foot if the trench is open or $7.00 per foot If we dig the trench. Our installation package Includes two trips for the Installation, as most installs require only two trips. The job is scheduled and confirmed in advance to insure that everything is on site and ready for the technician's arrival.

On the first day, the technician arrives to set the tanks and run lines to the appliances. He also places a test gauge on the lines for the county Inspector to verify that there are no leaks. Our office typically schedules the inspection for the second day and the technician wilt also remove the test gauge and make final connections to the appliances on that second day.

Any trips outside of those two trips are billable to the customer. This Is explained on the tank location sheet that is completed by the customer and is related again verbally to the customer In the event that additional trips are necessary.

On September 4, 2013, you called our office and requested that we install a 250-gallon above- ground propane tank and run lines to a range, a hot water heater, a future fireplace and a grill. You noted on the drawing sheet that there would be lo-feet of exterior lines to trench and run from the tank to the house. This was documented on the drawing sheet at our standard price of $7.00 per foot.

Therefore, the quote on the signed drawing sheet was:

Install Package -1st appliance: $450.00

Additional Appliances ($199/ each x3): $597.00

Conversion Fee; $40.00

10' of exterior lines @ $7.00/foot: $70.00

Permit: $102.00

200 gallons propane @ $1.75/gallon: $350.00

Propane Delivery Fee: $3.99

Total: $1,612.99

On September 6,2013, your credit card was processed for the quoted amount of $1,612.99 per your request. The installation was then scheduled and confirmed for September 10, 2013 and you conveyed to the customer service representative that everything was ready for the propane lines to be run.

On September 10, 2013, our technician arrived to complete the installation. The tank location you requested on the drawing sheet was not possible as we were unable to access that location with our truck. For that reason, it was necessary to replace the 250-gallon tank you had originally ordered with two smaller tanks that could be delivered by hand, resulting in an additional trip. The additional trip was also necessary because the cooktop you had on site was not the correct one and you needed to purchase a new one and the hot water heater was not installed prior to our arrival.

Our customer service representative ([redacted]) called you on the afternoon of September 10, 2013 and explained that we would need to make the additional trip before the inspection could be done to complete the installation. DUring that conversation, you explained to[redacted] that you would have the new cooktop available and the hot water heater installed the following day (September 11, 2013) and you scheduled our technician to return to complete running the lines to those appliances on September 12, 2013 and the final inspection on September 13, 2013.

[redacted] again reminded you that only two of those three trips were included in the installation quote and that the additional trip would be billed at $120.00 per hour.

On September 12, 2013, our technician returned as scheduled to install the tanks, run lines to the hot water heater and to the new cooktop and to convert the range. When we arrived the cooktop was still not on site so we ran the lines but were unable to complete the conversion.

On September 13, 2013, our technician returned for the final inspection and to pull the gauge, make final connections and to fire up all appliances.

On September 23,2013, we removed the conversion fee from the original install invoice as the range was never on site for us to convert. A telephone message was left to inform you of this correction and to tell you that a revised invoice was mailed.

Once [redacted] contacted you and attempted to explain the final installation charges, she noted that you were disputing the amount due and a Concern Form was entered to escalate the matter to management for review. Upon reviewing the charges and the correspondence between you and our representatives, management agreed, as a good-will gesture, to waive $105.00 for the outside lines and to adjust the second and third trips by $6.38. Therefore, the total installation contract after adjustments was $1,720.59. The enclosed summary may simplify the final billing:

At this time, our records indicate a balance due of $107.60 which consists of the final charges after adjustments in the amount of $1,720.59 less the payment processed on your credit card of $1,612.99.

I trust this letter adequately supports our billing of your installation project and appeases the uncertainty and suspicion you communicated to the Revdex.com and Office of the Attorney General of Virginia regarding the business practices of Holtzman Propane.

Should this communication not be satisfactory, I would propose that your propane needs might be better satisfied through another provider and our office will contact you to schedule an account closeout.

Sincerely,

Credit Manager

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response offer made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. Actually, they have not proposed a solution. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

There are several inaccuracies to

the story by the companyso I feel that I must give

you my version for the record. They go

through a very detailed description of Holtzmans Policy and the events

surrounding this issue. I believe they

are correct in espousing Holtzman policies but just because they quote policy

does not make it fair to the customer. I

would suggest they take a closer look at their processes and procedures for

improvement and look at it from the customers perspective.

“On

September 4, 2013, you called our office and requested that we install a

250-gallon above-ground tank…” I called your office to obtain propane

service. It was your office, based on my

requirements, that proposed a 250-gallon above-ground tank. I had no idea what size tank was needed or

whether it would be in-ground or above ground.

“For

that reason, it was necessary to replace the 250-gallon tank you had originally

ordered.” I

did not order the 250-gallon tank. I ordered the service and Holtzman proposed

the 250-gallon tank solution. I am not

an expert in propane and have no idea what size was needed for my house. So it was Holtzman Propane who ordered the

two 100-gallon tanks which caused another trip.

I was perfectly happy with the 250-gallon solution but Holtzman Propane

refused to install due to not having the right equipment or access. This could have been avoided with a site

survey by Holtzman.

“The

additional trip was also necessary because the cooktop you had on site was not

the correct one…” I was told by the

technician that the cooktop would not delay the installation as they could

install a cutoff value under the cooktop which is what they ultimately

did. So the cooktop in and of itself did

not cause the additional day.

“[redacted]

again reminded you that only two of those three trips were included in the

installation quote…” I do

not recall [redacted] informing me that additional trips would be billed at

$120/hour. This is why I was shocked

when Holtzman Propane sent me a bill for this additional day. I recall Holtzman Propane providing a fixed

price for the installation regardless of the timeline and after the work was

completed was charged extra fees.

“On

September 13, 2013, our technician returned for the final inspection and to

pull the gauge, make final connections and to fire up all appliances.” Is it also in your notes

that I had to call the technicians back after they left due to hearing leaking

gas from the tanks? They returned later

that day to discover the gas was leaking from the pressure valve. There is no way to determine how much gas was

lost due to this.

“On

September 23, 2013, we removed the conversion fee from the original install

invoice as the range was never on site for us to convert.” Holtzman Propane tried to

collect the conversion fee and only refunded this fee after I complained about

it. It seems that this detail did not

make it back to the accounting department for removal until I brought it to their

attention.

“I trust

this letter adequately supports our billing of your installation…” As I stated earlier, just

because it is your policy does not make it just. To be fair concerning the Revdex.com and the Office

of the Attorney General, I informed Holtzman Propane of my intentions prior to

this action and gave Holtzman Propane an opportunity to resolve the issue.

One other thing is that Holtzman Propane on several

occasions assured me that the county inspector would not need to enter the

house for the inspection of the propane tanks.

Wrong! He entered the house and

inspected things outside the scope of this project. As a result, I had to file work permits for

items I inherited from the previous owner which caused me to spent $516 in

additional fees.

Regards,

Review: We have engaged Holtzman Propane as our propane provider for the last sixteen years. I have always checked the gauge when I could, but typically within a few days after and before a delivery. Recently we received a delivery of propane that was supposed to be 150 gallons to our 300 gallon tank. Upon our request for this delivery, the tank had 20% already in the tank.

It took Holtzman Propane five days to make the delivery. Four days after the delivery I checked our tank and it was at 40%. If the tank was only on 10% at the time of the delivery, our gauge should have been, at the very least, 60%. There was a typed note with the delivery ticket, saying that because of a propane shortage only 60% of the requested propane would be given, but that same ticket said we received the full 150 gallons. I contacted Holtzman Propane three times, and the last conversation with them resulted in their conclusion that we got the full 150 gallons. If they only gave us the 60% as the note indicated, the tank is about right, but there is no way we could have received the 150 gallons. I will add that we only use about 40% of a tank

in six to eight weeks. Just by simple math alone, our tank should have read 60 to 70%, and we could not have used 20 to 30% in four days.Desired Settlement: Either give us 40% of 150 gallons of propane or refund the money that was taken, equaling 40% of the price quoted us at that time.

Business

Response:

1/31/14- Mr. [redacted] called into our office to place a fuel order for 150g of propane, at that time he stated his tank was at 20%.

2/4/14- Delivery was made to Mr. [redacted]’ tank, in the amount of 150 gallons, which the driver noted the gauge reading to 50% after the delivery.

2/10/14- Mr. [redacted]’ initial call into our office questioning his delivery. He stated he had checked the tank and it was reading 40%.

We take every precaution necessary to ensure our customers receive the deliveries they request, including:

-All of our propane delivery vehicles are metered, and regulated by the Office of Weights and Measures. We are required to calibrate the meters every other year; however, we choose to calibrate the meters yearly. Therefore when the driver hooked up to Mr. [redacted]’ tank the meter start was 0, the finish was 150.0 gallons, ensuring the 150 gallons requested was delivered. Our drivers do not fill by the gauge on the tank. The gauge is not a precise form of measurement and should be used as an estimate only.

-All of our vehicles are equipped with GPS systems; we have pulled the vehicle report for your delivery and verified that the driver was at your location at the date and time of the delivery in question.

- Our delivery tickets also include the tank size (325 gallon) and serial number ([redacted]), the driver cross references this with the data plate located on your tank to ensure no errors are made.

Based on our information it seems that Mr. [redacted]’ gauge reading was less than 10% when we arrived to make the delivery. If Mr. [redacted]’ gauge was readingapproximately 5% upon arrival (as it seems it was near) and the driver delivered 150 gallons to the 325 gallon tank it would have brought his approximate gauge reading to 51%.

With the extreme cold we have experienced this winter most of our customers are noticing an increase in usage. It is important to note that in the 5 days between when Mr. [redacted] called in his delivery and when the delivery was made and in the 6 days between when the delivery was made and when Mr. [redacted] called in questioning his delivery the average temperatures were in the 30’s. During cold times such as these we predict that the average consumer will use approximately 20% of their tank within one week. We have reviewed Mr. [redacted]’ account and his past usage, during the delivery period in question, taking into consideration the temperatures at that time his usage was in line with his past usage, if not less.

The note that is currently being distributed with the delivery ticket is to notify our auto fill customers that due to the nationwide shortage of propane the tanks are only being filled to a maximum of 60%, however in your case you requested the minimum delivery of 150 gallons so the 60% cap on deliveries does not apply. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response offer made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I have not changed my thermostat all winter. We only use the propane heat to keep the pipes in our basement from freezing, and it helps keep our electric bills down. I have monitored

our propane usage and documented our gauge since our last delivery. There is no way we could have used 10% of the alleged delivery in just four days. I took a picture of the gauge on Sat. Feb. the 8th, four days after delivery, and it reads 40%. I have taken pictures of that gauge every Sat. since then and we still have 20% as of March 8. I have most of our past invoices and it seems odd that this delivery should be so completely off from all our past history. I would also point out, that the weather before and after this delivery has had no bearing on the amount we use. Again we do not use the propane to heat the house with, just the basement, and it is underground and at a constant temperature most of the year. If the gauge is only an estimate of what is in the tank, I suggest Holtzman propane check their gauge. But in any case, I believe we received only 60% of what we paid for, and that would explain the error. Either give us the 40% we are due or refund to us $211.00. Thank you

Regards,

Business

Response:

I have reviewed the response offer made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I have not changed my thermostat all winter. We only use the propane heat to keep the pipes in our basement from freezing, and it helps keep our electric bills down. I have monitored our propane usage and documented our gauge since our last delivery. There is no way we could have used 10% of the alleged delivery in just four days. I took a picture of the gauge on Sat. Feb. the 8th, four days after delivery, and it reads 40%. I have taken pictures of that gauge every Sat since then and we still have 20% as of March 8. I have most of our past invoices and it seems odd that this delivery should be so completely off from all our past history. We have reviewed Mr. [redacted]’ account and his past usage, during the delivery period in question, taking into consideration the temperatures at that time his usage was in line with his past usage, if not less. I would also point out, that the weather before and after this delivery has had no bearing on the amount we use.

The entire account history is attached reflecting every delivery this customer has ever received from Holtzman Propane. The customer is welcomed to verify that the usage is consistent .

There are no facts to address in the above paragraph. I will quote our original response to address the above:

All of our propane delivery vehicles are metered, and registered by the Office of Weights and Measures. We are required to calibrate the meters every other year; however, we choose to calibrate the meters yearly. When the driver hooked up to Mr. [redacted]’ tank the meter start was 0, the finish was 150.0 gallons, ensuring the 150 gallons requested was delivered. Our drivers do not fill by the gauge on the tank. The gauge is not a precise form of measurement and should be used as an estimate only.

All of our vehicles are equipped with GPS systems; we have pulled the vehicle report for your delivery and verified that the driver was at your location at the date and time of the delivery in question.

Our delivery tickets also include the tank size (325 gallon) and serial number (ASME824258), the driver cross references this with the data plate located on your tank to ensure no errors are made.

Based on our information it seems that Mr. [redacted]’ gauge reading was less than 10% when we arrived to make the delivery. If Mr. [redacted]’ gauge was reading approximately 5% upon arrival (as it seems it was near) and the driver delivered 150 gallons to the 325 gallon tank it would have brought his approximate gauge reading to 51%.

With the extreme cold we have experienced this winter most of our customers are noticing an increase in usage. It is important to note that in the 5 days between when Mr. [redacted] called in his delivery and when the delivery was made and in the 6 days between when the delivery was made and when Mr. [redacted] called questioning his delivery the average temperatures were in the 30’s. During cold times such as these we predict that the average consumer will use approximately 20% of their tank within one week. We have reviewed Mr. [redacted]’ account and his past usage, during the delivery period in question, taking into consideration the temperatures at that time his usage was in line with his past usage, if not less

Again we do not use the propane to heat the house with, just the basement, and it is underground and at a constant temperature most of the year. If the gauge is only an estimate of what is in the tank, I suggest Holtzman propane check their gauge. All of our propane delivery vehicles are metered and regulated by the Office of Weights and Measures. We are required to calibrate the meters every other year; however, we choose to calibrate the meters yearly. But in any case, I believe we received only 60% of what we paid for, The note that is currently being distributed with the delivery ticket is to notify our auto fill customers that due to the nationwide shortage of propane the tanks are only being filled to a maximum of 60%, however in your case you requested the minimum delivery of 150 gallons so the 60% cap on deliveries does not apply. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused and that would explain the error. Either give us the 40% we are due or refund to us $211.00.

The customer is not due a refund. Our only error was leaving the note we prepared for our automatic customers to let them know that we cannot fill their tanks (as we always do for automatic customers) due to the propane shortage. Since you are NOT on an automatic schedule, the note did not apply to you.

You ordered 150 Gallons of fuel and you received 150 Gallons of fuel.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution would be satisfactory to me. I will wait for the business to perform this action and, if it does, will consider this complaint resolved.

Regards,

Review: I was talked into going with this propane company by there sales depth after I finally agreed I paid for my propane and was told multiple times it was going to be brought very Quickly and installed and working same days after no word 2 days later I call and get a date of over 3weeks until I get my gas might I add my only heat source I told them this wasunexceptible and got a closer date of Nov 26 well as of this morning after calling and verifying they were coming I receive a phone call there not common to do it 2 dayDesired Settlement: I think I should get some type of apology and a credit to my acct

Business

Response:

Mr. [redacted] contacted our office on November 17, 2014 to set up an account. Hispaperwork was received late that afternoon, the paperwork was processed and the accountwas established on November 19, 2014. Due to payment status of the account Mr. [redacted]had to prepay for the propane prior to Holtzman Propane scheduling the job. The paymentwas received November 20, 2014, at this time it was explained to Mr. [redacted] that ourservice department would be calling him to schedule the tank set, however a time line wasnot given. At this point we were scheduling 3-4 weeks out on all tank installations, unlessit was an emergency situation (i.e. no heat). Mr. [redacted] called our office again onNovember 21, 2014 to inquire about his installation date, and was told that a date had notbeen scheduled but that the service department would call him once they had a date. Mr.[redacted] called on November 24, 2014 and stated that he did not have any heat and hadsmall children, Mr. [redacted] had not mentioned prior to this point that the propane systemwas his only source of heat. The job was scheduled for mid-December but under thesenew circumstances the job was able to be scheduled and confirmed for November 26,2014. On November 26, 2014 at 8:30 am, Mr. [redacted] called our office to verify the jobwas still on schedule for the day, at this time it was and he was advised of this and askedthat we let him know if anything changed. Unfortunately around the same time thatmorning it began to snow heavily and within a couple hours approximately 6” of snow hadfallen. As soon as it became apparent that the installs for the day would not be able to becompleted the affected customers, including Mr. [redacted], were notified. Later thatafternoon Mr. [redacted] called to see how soon the job could be rescheduled, again takinginto consideration his circumstances we were able to make adjustments and reschedule thetank installation for December 1, 2014, this was explained to Mr. [redacted] and heexpressed his satisfaction with this date. The tank installation was completedsuccessfully on December 1, 2014. Please feel free to contact me with any additionalquestions.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution would be satisfactory to me. I will wait for the business to perform this action and, if it does, will consider this complaint resolved.

Regards,