Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted] The gentleman is correct about one thing: we have had "bad use years"The salesmen told we could go to the Cape and didn't tell us we would have to upgrade or get more points to actually do this when we wanted to do thisThey didn't tell us that the amount of points w got - not a lot - would guarantee that we wouldn't get there in the summertimeOn purpose they induced us to buy something they knew we would have to upgrade IF we wanted to use it the way we told them we planned Regards, [redacted]
Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted] Regards, [redacted]
Ms [redacted] spoke to an agent on the phone that explained that the airfares have to be used in conjunction with specific hotels at her destinations Our protocol, once a client has accepted the offer and makes an appointment with the agent, is a Manager gets on the phone and reviews all of the criteria and terms and conditions of the offer The manager then re-confirms the client's email address so we are able to email all of the details of the offer to the client within one hour of talking with usMs [redacted] did receive this letter and has acknowledges as muchPlease see below my response to Ms [redacted] 's allegations:Bessie, please open and read the attached confirmation letter you were emailed the day you made the appointment to attend the promotion at the [redacted] On the first page, second paragraph, it states clearly that you must select accommodations from the airfare ticketing agency: Your Gifts! “Fly AwayGetaway.” This fabulous vacation package is good for four (4) Round-Trip Airfares good for two years from issue date, for two separate vacationsWhen using airfares, select accommodations must be reserved though the airfare ticketing agency, First Priority Travel You have choices at vacation destinationsThere is a day advance notice required to book reservations Only major air carriers are utilized On page of the letter, it goes into great detail about the use of the airfares We are unable to alter the use and/or the terms and conditions of this vacation package As for being told 'no strings attached', that did not happen, as that would be dishonest and totally counter-productive Why we would lie to a client on the phone, then email them the truth minutes after we speak with them? You will need to redeem the airfares according to the terms and conditions of use.This is no further resolution to this complaint [redacted] ***TripJoy Advantage/InnSeason Resorts
Ok, so there were a couple of anonymous reviews of our program that lack any facts or substance or context on their situation and the Revdex.com non-accreditation has more to do with our company not paying a subscription fee than on our performance In fact, in the attached file from the customer, the Revdex.com gave our company an A- on a scale of A to F.Anyways, we are not looking to argue over the public airwaves on whether you think the program is a good value; however, we are having to defend ourselves against a baseless attack when a customer uses scathing language to characterize our program as a 100% scam, such as this customer without any legitimate supporting evidence In my initial response, I provided MANY options for this customer to travel on February school vacation week for as little as $for the entire week in a resort condo She claims she had already booked a stay through a travel agency for the same week for only $ Can she show us something to prove that? Was it comparable? Was it a resort condo or a hotel room miles outside Orlando? These are the kind of questions that I would ask anyone who makes blanket statements that what the program is offering is not comparable to what they can do on their own online or through a travel agency But, when I ask reasonable questions of the customer to determine the facts or the situation, she calls that rude and condescending since she feels that I do not take her word at face value She may be right, but I have helped thousands of owners and customers to find great resort stays for the last years working for our company and whenever someone uses terms like, "there is nothing ever available" or "this doesn't work at all", etc, then it's frustrating when we know there are tons of options to use the points or pay a discounted Extra Vacation Getaway.I provided example before and she did not refute those examples that show there are ample opportunities, yet her complaint said there is nothing available Also, I am now attaching examples to use points for Orlando where she can book a stay for 19,points for the February school vacation week or if she books on short notice, then she can book for as little as 7,points for the entire week in a condo That's less than half of her annual point allocation There are over units currently available that are less than 10,points for a full week in a resort condo for Orlando.The fact is that the customer did not allow us to attempt to help her before she ran off and filed this complaint FACT We are not going to let her off the hook on this contract when she hasn't made a good faith attempt to use it and when our company has not breached or misrepresented our program I believe that this complaint should be closed so we can attempt to start communicating in a meaningful way with the customer in an attempt to show her how to use her points or use the discounted stays with ***.She is asking us to rectify this situation by letting her just walk away from her obligation Well, I suggest we start by talking it out on the phone or we can invite her back to the resort to do a tutorial I have provided hard evidence to support that the program works and that she can go using either points or very discounted stays
I called and spoke with the customer this morning to review the situation and we had a productive conversation and we have scheduled an online meeting so I can demonstrate how to use the program with RCI Points and other benefits of the program I hope that the online meeting will give her the tools and understanding on how to benefit from the exchange program plus the other extra vacation getaways with RCI and Bonus Weeks with InnSeason Resorts.Sincerely, [redacted] Purchase Relations ManagerInnSeason Resorts
Mr*** spoke to myself, *** ***, the same person responding to this complaint and I am on the Board of Directors for the Association and offered to make an exception to assist him for not responding to his annual invoice in a prompt manner nor making any attempt to reach out to the Association that he agreed to pay within the timeframe provided in the Billing & Collection Policy.Mr*** was provided with information on his options to sell the ownership last year and I have offered to do a "Release Agreement" that was approved in accordance with the Resolution of the Board of Directors. If the owner wishes to take advantage of that offer, then he has days to set that in motion; otherwise that offer will expire after the calendar days.If someone agrees to own a program that requires annual fees until they transfer the ownership to someone else, then it's not a scam to expect that individual to honor those written agreements they entered into on their own free will. If the person just stops paying and ignores the consequences, then the company is not the bad guy for following through on the policies of the resort that were disclosed and agreed to by the owner of the resort.I have called Mr*** back to attempt to relay this sentiment over the phone but we have to agree to disagree on the matter but I will honor the offer we made if he takes action within the next calendar days. *** *** Purchase Relations ManagerInnSeason Vacation Club
I spoke to Mr*** this afternoon after he called into our corporate office to complain that he should just be able to cancel at anytime. I explained to Mr*** that he purchased a program that has a beneficial interest in real property, so it was not like a "gym membership" and he
agreed to the terms and conditions of that ownership over years ago in writing.Our Board of Directors will permit him to be released from the ownership if he satisfies several requirements, which I emailed to him this afternoon without knowing he even filed a Revdex.com complaint against our company. I would expect that he should respond back to the Revdex.com that we provided him an option to pay the balance due on his account, perform the other steps required and that our company afforded him an opportunity to terminate his account in accordance with the Board of Directors Resolution.I also sent the owner a copy of the Billing & Collection Policy that he received in November for the fees due on January 1, and those fees were never paid and he was sent to an outside collection agency in accordance with the Billing & Collection Policy that he has followed for years now
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ***Once again, they want more money from me. Someone called me after this complain and asked me to pay them, and pay their collection agency and so onThis never ends. I have been trying to cancel this for the past few years without any successThey told me that is was never an option. Now, their policy somehow changedThey want to buy my timeshare, pay me nothing for it and have me pay them additional $for paperwork. What a scam!
Regards,
*** ***
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ***.
In response to the message from Inn season, which I do insist are not accurate.I will be attaching dates from my cell phone records and email of all the attempted communications on my part to the Billing department, which went without a return call or email responseOn or before October 15, I called to speak to a representative at the Inn Season Billing departmentI explained that my pay had gone from bi-weekly to once a month and may need to make permanent changes in the months to comeI was guaranteed that Inn Season would be happy to help meThe billing date was changed without an issue.November 10, I called again and spoke with the same representative and explained that I needed to permanently change my billing date to no earlier than the 26thThe friendly woman suggested we change it to the 28th so that my check had time to postI was told that no other action was needed and that it was all taken care ofAt no point was I informed I needed to call again or that it was a "one time courtesy"I trusted the representative. I was never informed that Inn Season was not the appropriate contact for handling my mortgage paymentsI would never have continued calling Inn season if they had told me that.December 12, I emailed Inn Season via their website, which is one of their preferred/recommended methods to make inquiriesIn my email I mentioned that I was in the process of purchasing a home and needed my mortgage statements as well as monthly invoicesI also wanted to confirm the permanent change to my billing dateI have a "Contact Request Acknowledgement" email that I received on 12/12/at 12:40am, an automatically generated response to my original email to Inn seasonTo date, I have not received a single email or voicemail in response this request that was acknowledged by Inn Season.December 15, I was charged on the 15th and so I left a voicemail asking the Billing department to call me in regards to a billing concernI referenced my earlier call to permanently change my billing dateWith the holidays I put this issue aside, believing that I would receive a call backI never received a call back, nor an emailI even double checked my voicemailAgain, no one returned my call.January 18, Again I was charged on the wrong dateSince I felt the Billing department was not capable of assisting me, I was forced to review two years of emails to find *** *.'s emailThis has been the only employee from the Billing department who had returned my calls and emailsHe had been the only one to show any interest in my accountAfter four months of getting no where I had grown very frustrated.I called *** on 1/18/at 1:01pmI was very frustrated and I explained to *** that he had been the only person to return any of my calls and for that reason wanted his help in reaching a manager who could assist me with my mortgage datesI let him know I wanted to find a solution and just be done with this issueHe said he understood and would find me the managerHe transferred me to *** ** When she answered I tried to explain my situation and what I wanted to accomplish, but when I mentioned that I no longer wanted to work with her team due to their inability to follow through, *** grew vey defensive and started talking over me, she was not interested in hearing the full issueInstead she continued to interrupt me and showed no concern whatsoever for the frustration her team had caused meI told her I was not interested in excuses but needed a solutionI was not going to continue arguing with herShe screamed over me that the only thing she was going to do was make sure the withdrawals came out on the 15th again and that I just needed to make sure money was thereIt was clear to me that *** was not the person to speak to so I demanded to speak to her manager, she refused to give me any informationShe claimed she was the top of the departmentI hung up and called *** at 1:13pmWhen *** picked up the call, I could hear *** screaming in the background, "under no circumstance are you to help her"I asked *** for her Director's contact information, I could still hear *** in the background trying to control the conversation*** at one point stated that he wasn't sure what the issue was and didn't understand why she wouldn't change the dates for meHe suggested I try calling other resorts until someone else was allowed to help me.1:23pm I spoke with a location in ***The front desk person was trying to assist me, while she read my account notes OUT LOUD to me, she reviewed a note from 12/12/asking that someone return my inquiry, which of course she realized no one ever hadShe gave me *** *contact information and strongly encouraged me to submit a written grievance to Inn SeasonWhich I still intend on doingI left a message for *** asking for a call back as soon as possibleI have not heard from anyone.I do not accept the 23rd as my payment dateIf the 26th is not available, then I will accept the 1st of the month, beginning February 1, I have reached out to my bank and they will be refunding the over draft feesSince Inn Season has proven they do not care about my account and are not worthy of my trust, they can call me after the 26th of each month in order to process "one time payments" each monthMy intent in reaching out to Inn Season resort was to continue with my mortgage payments responsibly and without lapseI will not be calling them as they fabricate their "notes" to suit themselvesAll communications must be in writing via my email *** including confirmation of the permanent change of my billing date to the 1st of each month starting February 1stIf I do not receive a confirmation email in a timely manner I will close this account before February 1st, per my bank's advice
Regards,
*** ***
The customer states that *** lied about our company offering to buy back their timeshare at any time. Yet, it's not in the agreement, which does include in the Buyers Acknowledgements' a section that is initialed and signed by the customer that states they have the right to rescind the contract within a certain number of days (it varies on the state) to review their purchase and cancel for any reason within that time-frame and receive a full refund. This is in writing and signed and initialed by the customer and is not disputable. Nor did the customer choose to rescind the agreement within the allowable number of days.If a representative of any product offers to provide a guaranteed "buy back" for a product to a customer, then the consumer should demand for that to be put in writing IF that was really offered and IF that is a material reason why I felt comfortable in purchasing the productThe customer bought a beneficial interest in the Master Trust that holds title to the real property at that resort. It is an asset and many millions of people use timeshare and RCI Points each year to take wonderful vacations all over the world and this customer has not even attempted to book or use the points, but demands we refund her money or buy back the program, while also signing for a Promissory Note for that purchase.As far as the campground assertion, it would have been pretty evident by looking through the RCI resort directory or going on the website (not login needed to view resorts in RCI) to determine that there are no campgrounds in the directory. As I mentioned, there are some alternative types of vacation options; however, with over 4,resorts in their system, campgrounds were not something RCI is trying to fulfill with its exchange options. We have many timeshare owners who do own travel trailers or RV's and still get great value and benefit from the RCI Points program, so wanting to do camping doesn't mean people still don't want to stay in a resort condo from time to time.Both of the main issues of a buyback program or campground locations (or as the customer states are lies) were items that could have been confirmed after the initial purchase but before their right to cancel had expired by making a phone call or viewing the RCI website once they went home if they didn't want to review the directory. As such, once past the rescission period, the contract is legally binding for the duration and will not be canceled since I do not find anythng to support any misrepresentation of the product or RCI program.Based on the statements in the rebuttal, the customers read some negative remarks or reviews of timeshare in general and are looking to back out of the agreement without even trying to use it or accepting our assistance in showing them how to book reservations online. It's a buyers remorse situation and not worthy to cancel a valid agreement that they had the opportunity to rescind but didn't.Sincerely,*** ***InnSeason Resorts
This consumer sent an email to our Sales Manager yesterday to ask for assistance and to call him a liar for misrepresenting the program and threatened to contact the corporate office if he did not respond by Noon today, Friday August 21st. The Manager, on his day off, responded to the
issues in her complaint email and stated he would work with her on helping her with her arrangements and he also corrected some misinformation that she stated in her email. The Manager also copied myself, *** ***, the Purchase ?Relations Manager for the company on the email so I reached out by phone and called the consumer to see if I can help provide some assistance before the Manager returned to work on Friday morning.As part of the first day incentive, our company provided an Extra Vacation Getaway for $from *** (exchange partner) to be used by the customer and the consumer claims that the Manager promised the incentive could be used for Orlando on February School Vacation Week for (Feb 20-26). There are sample dates for various locations on the certificate that show what inventory would be available for that $price and no where on that form has the state of Florida in February. It could be used for January or August to December for the $price and it clearly shows that on the certificate (see attached). There was no promises made to the consumer that this certificate could be used for February school vacation week for $249. There are ample opportunities (over resorts) to book an Extra Vacation Getaway for that week starting a price of $for the full week. The average price of those offers is around $530.00, which is a great deal for a condo on February school vacation week with months advance notice.She also complained that there is nothing available, but as you see the attached, that is not the case. There are over resorts with availability with either an arrival date of Feb 19, or 21st for a full week stay in a condo in Orlando area. Instead of the consumer waiting until this afternoon for our office to reach out to the Manager to ask for his side of the story and allow us to attempt to help her with the issues, she went ahead and filed a Revdex.com complaint that lacks any real facts or has any merit. There is no breach of contract, there is no supporting documentation on her behalf that we promised something that was no delivered.The consumer also claimed that the sales team lied to her about how far in advance she could book Bonus Time at one of the InnSeason locations, she claimed she was told days in advance (see her email dated 8/20/15). The Manager emailed back that her Gold Card benefits allowed her to book only days in advance, and that was clearly marked on the back of her Gold Card and how and where to call to book such stays. Even though that was in writing, she still claimed we lied and tricked her on that one as well.The customer was upset that I would not just "cancel out" the contract due to what she thought was broken promises. I asked her questions about the $incentive week that were reasonable and fair. I asked her if she read the sample locations and dates on the back of the certificate and she said yes. I explained the certificate does not offer Florida for the month of February, only January or August to December and she then fired back, "but he promised he could get us there for Feb 20-26". I asked the consumer if he was promising something that was different that what was offered on the certificate, whether she asked him to write that down on the certificate and sign it, but she said she didn't think to ask. I also asked her if she saw the phone number on the top of the certificate for the company that fulfills the certificates and she said yes. I asked her if she asked to call them either while she was on site and before she purchased to verify that she could get Florida in February 20-or after she returned home to call them while she was still in her days rescission period and she said "no". So, if this one-time certificate for $was the reason for her to purchase and she had many opportunities to verify whether she could go on school vacation in February during her rescission "cooling off" period, then why not take minutes and call the company that would fulfill the incentive?? Why, is because it was not promised at the time of purchase and this claim has only come up after the consumer wanted to "cancel out" of her contract and was looking to find a way to make an excuse beyond her legal rescission period.I told the customer that if the Manger had promised to get her to Orlando for February 20-with the incentive certificate, that I would honor that and make the Manager pay the difference between the price of her Extra Vacation Getaway of $450-and the $on the certificate. BUT, she did not even wait for our follow up the next day, she filed a complaint with the Revdex.com less than hours later and then emailed to our company to stop her automatic payments for her loan. Our companied complied with her request; however, she is still liable for the loan payments and the yearly maintenance fees on the interval she purchased.She said she wishes she had read some of the reviews before she bought, but as I can see that her complaint is littered with inaccurate claims and not supporting facts, then it's hard to place stock on the complaints we see online from customers who simply want to complain the loudest in hopes they can avoid their financial obligations they legally entered. Our company is here to help her to use the program and show her how to take the vacations she wants. I have shown you over units available to stay for the week she wants (school vacation) for less than $per night for a condo (not a hotel room).We hope she starts to become willing to accept her responsibilities and get honest and let us help her with her program instead of just throwing out inaccurate statements that are not substantiated and do not come close to being a reason for canceling her contract
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted].
I would like to reject business's response for the following reasons:As stated in my previous responses, we have not argued anything in regards to our contract and what it entails. What we were told by [redacted], which we took to be honest, truthful information was nothing of the sort. Again, Mr. [redacted] is not addressing the true concerns we have provided. We have not argued what was in the contract. We are not denying things should be put in writing, hence why we are on the Revdex.com right now arguing with this incompetent jerk, so everyone can see just how relentless this company is. We were absolutely told about a buy back program, and if there is nothing of the sort, Mr. [redacted] should be making sure these salesmen have proper training and are aware of the effects of having salesmen lie to their customers. Timeshare is not an asset. It is a burden and a money whole and for him to say anything of the sort truly shows his delusion. If it were such an asset, maybe he can explain to me why there are so many people trying and failing to sell their timeshares, or even give them away. NO ONE WANTS THIS BURDEN, AND NO ONE WANTS THEIR CHILDREN TO HAVE IT EITHER. It is an absolute money pit, WORTHLESS. We are absolutely demanding cancelation with a refund because we have been taken advantage of and the mockery we are receiving from Mr. [redacted] is truly impeccable. We did not come up with these lies we were told out of thin air. AGAIN, since Mr. [redacted] has such terrible memoery, and clearly a lack of any compassion, we were spoken to of the opportunity to camp with our timeshare. We wouldn’t have purchased anything if we were not lied to about the opportunity to camp. It’s amazing that we have to keep reiterating ourselves over and over again, like it just is not sinking in. We made it clear during our purchase we wanted to camp with our timeshare, as it was an option provided to us, and [redacted] told us this was absolutely possible, and to discover we were lied to is insulting. We were confirmed in the initial purchase by [redacted] that both the buyback program and campground assurances were accurate and true. The pressure that was put on us to purchase absolutely effected our decision. Mr. [redacted] continues to put words in our mouth and thoughts in our mind, that are not accurate. This behavior truly explains why [redacted] ( and we are sure others) act the way they do. They are learning from the master of lies and relentless behavior. If Mr. [redacted] believes this will be the last he hears form us, he is in for a rude awakening. WE DO NOT HAVE BUYER’ S REMORSE! THIS MAN IS AN IT, A LIAR AND A MANIPULATOR. His tactics will not work on us. The harassment we have received in recent months will come back tenfold. We are not just going after this company, we are going straight after M. [redacted]. Our agreement was based on falsehoods and pressure and nothing of which is valid. We hope you sleep well Mr. [redacted] because this will not be the last you have heard from us.
Regards,
[redacted]
Our suggestion to the customer was to speak directly with the lender, [redacted], since she felt there was not a clear understanding that the "request" to change the draft dates had not been completed due to the date she requested is not a date allowed by the lender.After receiving the rebuttal to our initial response, I asked the Manager at InnSeason to email a [redacted] Manager to reach out to the customer with the particulars and see if they can work things out. I just read an email from the [redacted] manager that was sent to the customer with an option to change her draft date to better serve her situation, so hopefully, the customer will respond to the [redacted] service team directly to complete that request.InnSeason's internal team was only a conduit to assist with the lender, [redacted]. We did not have the power to permanently change her draft date for each month, which is why we had suggested to her prior to the complaint to speak directly with [redacted]. Now she is doing that and they can help her with the request.Sincerely,[redacted]
Purchase Relations Manager, InnSeason
Before we get to all the discrepancies in your examples of vacations that you claim are "available" to me. I'd like to start by saying that the reviews that I read and provided are very much confirmed by my experiences with you company, I'm taking this to the public airwaves in hopes that the next person that considers your company for a timeshare will ready this and not become a victim to this nightmare I've found myself in. Your [redacted] page as a review on it that also confirms what a difficult company you are to deal with, but hey, I guess we are all just lying.Now, let's address the printouts that you attached for me. The first resort you circled for me [redacted] #5169 sleeps 4 people (I have 6 as I've stated previously), you show this being 19,000 points, however when I log into my [redacted] account and call and confirm with [redacted] the points needed to book this are 66,000 points (See attachment). Much more than I have. My favorite of all the resorts you circled for an example is [redacted] at [redacted] - East Village (#8896), this is my favorite example because of a few reasons.....First this is one of the resorts that I contacted [redacted] to look into for me, for which he never got back to me on, he had Harold call me and tell me that I needed to contact [redacted] to book this. Second reason, When I contacted [redacted] to book this resort(#8896), they informed me that I did not have enough points to book this, I would need 83,000 (See attachment). It took me a few minutes of really looking at the example you provided [redacted] to realize that the example that you provided to me for resort# 8896 is for the WRONG date range....no wonder it is only 7,500 points, but if you can book it for me for 7,500 points then I guess we don't have an issue do we??? Before you start throwing baseless accusations around such as I just don't want to hear what you have to offer, how about you make sure your facts & attachments are accurate.You also are requesting that I prove to you that I can/have booked a room for $437 through a travel agency. I do not have to prove anything to you, that is an unreasonable request. I did consider attaching my previous booking, however, it does have some personal information in it that I don't think is appropriate to be posted on this site.I will not attend another "tutorial" seminar, will you attend a customer service seminar? I have NEVER had such terrible customer service in my life. I deal with the public on a daily basis and the way that you spoke to me on the phone was horrendous. Does your company record calls? I'd really like for someone to hear that call as it says it all. I'm not asking to walk away from the obligation that I "THOUGHT" I was signing up for. I'm asking to be let out of a contract that was misrepresented to me. I know that I will never recoup the almost $950.00 that I handed over to your company in full trust, so in return for that $950.00, I will request again, a Deed in Lieu back to your company. I want nothing to do with EVER owning a timeshare again or doing business with your company again. I was always told to stay away from timeshare companies because it's never what it seems, I guess I'm learning the hard way.
Regards,
[redacted]
Ok, so there were a couple of anonymous reviews of our program that lack any facts or substance or context on their situation and the Revdex.com non-accreditation has more to do with our company not paying a subscription fee than on our performance. In fact, in the attached file from the customer, the Revdex.com gave our company an A- on a scale of A to F.Anyways, we are not looking to argue over the public airwaves on whether you think the program is a good value; however, we are having to defend ourselves against a baseless attack when a customer uses scathing language to characterize our program as a 100% scam, such as this customer without any legitimate supporting evidence. In my initial response, I provided MANY options for this customer to travel on February school vacation week for as little as $437 for the entire week in a resort condo. She claims she had already booked a stay through a travel agency for the same week for only $440.00. Can she show us something to prove that? Was it comparable? Was it a resort condo or a hotel room 20 miles outside Orlando? These are the kind of questions that I would ask anyone who makes blanket statements that what the program is offering is not comparable to what they can do on their own online or through a travel agency. But, when I ask reasonable questions of the customer to determine the facts or the situation, she calls that rude and condescending since she feels that I do not take her word at face value. She may be right, but I have helped thousands of owners and customers to find great resort stays for the last 13 years working for our company and whenever someone uses terms like, "there is nothing ever available" or "this doesn't work at all", etc, then it's frustrating when we know there are tons of options to use the points or pay a discounted Extra Vacation Getaway.I provided example before and she did not refute those examples that show there are ample opportunities, yet her complaint said there is nothing available. Also, I am now attaching examples to use points for Orlando where she can book a stay for 19,000 points for the February school vacation week or if she books on short notice, then she can book for as little as 7,500 points for the entire week in a condo. That's less than half of her annual point allocation. There are over 161 units currently available that are less than 10,000 points for a full week in a resort condo for Orlando.The fact is that the customer did not allow us to attempt to help her before she ran off and filed this complaint. FACT. We are not going to let her off the hook on this contract when she hasn't made a good faith attempt to use it and when our company has not breached or misrepresented our program. I believe that this complaint should be closed so we can attempt to start communicating in a meaningful way with the customer in an attempt to show her how to use her points or use the discounted stays with [redacted].She is asking us to rectify this situation by letting her just walk away from her obligation. Well, I suggest we start by talking it out on the phone or we can invite her back to the resort to do a tutorial. I have provided hard evidence to support that the program works and that she can go using either points or very discounted stays.
Our office received this complaint and I attempted to reach the customer by phone and left a voice message, then sent an email to him to ask to speak to him by phone so we can address his issues before sending in this response to the Revdex.com. In my experience, it's always helpful to have a...
conversation with someone who feels they have an issue with our company or the product that they purchased.The customer felt that they would not be billed for the fees for 2016 until next year; however, all timeshare resorts do their budget in the Fall and bill to its owners so they can collect the 2016 assessments prior to January 1st. The resort is managed by [redacted] who sent an invoice to the customer for 2016 Use Year and he may have spoken to a representative from [redacted] who explained the billiing and collection policy for the resort. They can work with the customer to spread out the fee over a few months. At the beginning of each year, the customer can set up a pre-payment plan for the NEXT Use Year. For example, once the 2016 fees are paid, then the customer can set up the pre-payment plan for their 2017 fees, and that fee will be spread out over the remainder of 2016. If the customer sets up the plan in late February, then they will split up the payment plan for 2017 into 10 equal payments. It's designed to allow people to "escrow" each month towards the next years fees.The customer was provided a rescission period for his purchase and if the way they bill and collect for the fees were a material reason whether he would keep or not keep the timeshare, then he should have consulted with the management company within the rescission period. He wants to cancel outside of the rescission period and he also filed a credit card dispute on the deposit and initial payment on the timeshare. I'd like a chance to have a conversation with the customer and attempt to resolve the matter with how his bill will be collected for 2016 and how to utilize the pre-payment plan for 2017 along with addressing his credit card dispute.The RCI points program works well and I can also work with him individually to show him how to use the points online with RCI. He lives close to our corporate office, so it'd be beneficial to arrange a meeting in person or at least a phone conversation to clear up the matter.We appreciate the opportunity to address any and all complaints and we strive to work with our customers and our affiliates to make sure our customers are satisfied with their programs.Sincerely[redacted]Purchase Relations Mgr[redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted]..
Thank you for assisting us in our distress with this company. In response to Mr. [redacted], in fact we do have a wonderful memory of what took place at this meeting and insist that we were absolutely lied to and taken advantage of. If we were fully aware of the inconsistencies of the what we were told in our meeting and what was actually in the contract, we would have never agreed to sign. In fact, Mr. [redacted] claims our letter was received at the end of October. We sent that letter out at the end of SEPTEMBER. It took a month to receive any correspondence to our complaint whatsoever. The only correspondence we ever received was an email stating Mr. [redacted] would love to speak with us on our claims, but when we attempted to reach out, he was suddenly unavailable via email. We NEVER received the written response that Mr. [redacted] stated via email would be provided the Friday following the email sent October 26th. Clearly, this shows lack of integrity as it took us exposing our concerns to the public to receive a response to our concerns. If there are inconsistencies between what was stated then and what is written in this response, how can we believe he has any true information about what took place in our meeting? Especially since, Mr. [redacted] was not the sales agent involved. If Mr. [redacted] took such great notes, we would like to be provided with such notes as we do not believe this is true. Unfortunately, we do not agree with the claim that [redacted] explained the program well as he only gave partial truths. As stated, we were told owning timeshare was an asset. Asset is defined as “property owned by a person or company, regarded as having value and available to meet debts, commitments, or legacies”. This “property” has no true value as no one wants it. It is so easy to go on the internet and see the thousands of individuals trying to give their timeshares away because they are such a burden and a trap. We were made to believe this timeshare was a benefit for our children, not an obligation. This is incomplete information that should have been fully addressed by [redacted] at the presentation. As stated in the letter, [redacted] made it a point to tell us we could write off this timeshare on our taxes. If he is not a tax professional, this should’ve never been in our conversation. He never stated he was not a tax professional, but he also never made it clear that he was not. Half- information is a deceitful tactic that is essentially a lie, which is the reason we have emphasized repeatedly that we were lied to in the complaint we submitted. We were told at the purchase meeting fees were to be minimal. There was no mention of this only being a possibility. If minimal maintenance fees is only a possibility, then this should be made clear at the meeting. There should be no possibilities provided as absolutes. [redacted] told us we would save more all around with owning a timeshare, than if we purchased vacations outright. Due to rising annual yearly fees, this timeshare obligation never ends. If we receive maintenance fees that increase annually, we can only imagine how great these fees will be once our timeshare is paid off. By then, we could have traveled to numerous places without the stress of this timeshare. [redacted] guaranteed at the meeting that InnSeasons would have no issue buying our timeshare back. We couldn’t have come up with such information from thin air. We would not have known of such a possibility, if it was not stated to us. As confirmed by Mr. [redacted] in his response, no such thing exists. If there is no such program, we were blatantly lied to, as we reiterated continuously through our initial complaint. Mr. [redacted] may have never provided such assurances as a buyback of an ownership HIMSELF, but that does not mean we were not given this option as matter of fact from [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] has his facts mixed up as we received this “helpful” email he claims to have provided AFTER disputing our ownership as we sent our very first letter out September 20th. Regardless, we do not need help using this ridiculous timeshare. We only want out of the contract with no further obligations to the timeshare or debt that we took on under false pretenses. Again, if campground provisions were not consistent with what timeshare offers, we were lied to by [redacted] as he told us we could go camping with our timeshare. It infuriates us that we are being called liars right now. If we were not lied to, we would not be going through this much energy to get out of this timeshare. We do not care about the possible locations available to vacation with our timeshare. We care about the fact that we were assured we could use our timeshare to go camping and we can’t. We have not changed our minds about anything. Our minds were manipulated to believe we were making an investment that has turned out to be a money sink hole. We do not want assistance to “better use RCI”. We stand firm in our request to cancel our contract with a refund of the money we have sent up until this point.
Regards,
[redacted]
I called and spoke with the customer this morning to review the situation and we had a productive conversation and we have scheduled an online meeting so I can demonstrate how to use the program with RCI Points and other benefits of the program. I hope that the online meeting will give...
her the tools and understanding on how to benefit from the exchange program plus the other extra vacation getaways with RCI and Bonus Weeks with InnSeason Resorts.Sincerely,[redacted]Purchase Relations ManagerInnSeason Resorts
This all began on July 11, 2015 when my fiancé and I decided to check out a timeshare sales pitch as we were in the middle of planning a trip to [redacted] for February vacation. Our sales rep's were [redacted] (not sure of the last name) and manager [redacted]. We had their undivided attention as we were the only people that showed up that morning at 9am. The normal sales pitch began and my fiancé and I were very skeptical. [redacted] and [redacted] asked us when we were looking to go on vacation. I explained to them both that I already had a hotel booked through a travel agency for February 20-26, 2016 for school vacation for $440.00, as we were taking our family to [redacted]. [redacted] said they could beat that price all day long, they both proceeded to ask me if I'd like to be inside [redacted] for my vacation? What parent of four children would not want that, they said they could make that happen. As [redacted] flipped through a book tell us that the average number of points at a place in Orlando FL averages between 9,000 and 11,000 points. Either his book was way out dated or this was part of the scam to get us to buy into the timeshare. [redacted] then presented us with a certificate for a seven night stay for $249.00** I immediately flipped the certificate over and asked him why there were sample dates, that the dates we are looking to use the timeshare were not listed on here. He quickly said..."[redacted], those are SAMPLES only, when the time comes call me if you have any trouble, I will be sure you can utilize this." I was then told by [redacted] that I should use the certificate for the hotel to get the cheaper price and then just purchase my airfare. As you can imagine this was all seeming pretty awesome. My fiancé and I asked on several occasions, are you sure that this isn't something we are going to buy now and find out later that we can not use. [redacted] comment "do I look like a scam artist?" I will assist you through booking your first few vacations, do not to worry. On Monday July 13, 2015 after signing all the paperwork and doing my $100.00 deposit on Saturday, I had to call and complete the purchase of the timeshare for $690.00. I called [redacted], and again asked him to confirm that I could definitely use the $249.00 gift certificate timeshare for my February vacation. I explained that the money I was about to give him to purchase the timeshare was the money I saved to take my family to [redacted] and that I needed to be sure that I would be able to use this, he promised me once again, not to worry, he would handle everything for me.I called a [redacted] the end of July and we played phone tag a few times. When I finally spoke to him I said that I would like to know what hotels were going to be available to me in February and I gave him the dates (again) he told me he would look into it and get back to me. He never called me back. After a week and a half of waiting for [redacted] to call I placed two more calls each time leaving messages cause he was either not there or with a customer. Finally I received a call back from [redacted], who seemed annoyed with me for continuing to call. At this point I began to worry that I had fallen victim to a few savvy salesmen. [redacted] explained to me that they were unable to confirm anything regarding vacations etc. as my account with [redacted] had not been setup yet. He explained that this would take 6-8 weeks, once I received my membership that I really should be contacting [redacted] to book the vacation not Inn Season. This was upsetting to me once more because [redacted] had promised to walk me through everything when the time came. I waited until my account with [redacted] was setup which was official on August 19th, and called [redacted] immediately to try to confirm everything that had been told to me about booking etc., this is when I learned that all of what was presented to me at the time of the sale was inaccurate. [redacted] explained that the dates that I wanted to utilize the Extra Vacation Getaway was not available. I then asked about being able to utilize my points to possibly book a vacation, I was told that I did not have enough points. I purchased 17,600 points and most places ranged between 45,000 -100,000. I then asked him how I was supposed to be able to use this timeshare that I was sold. The representative explained that he could get me into a room for seven night for about $750.00 for the week plus taxes/fees. I was shocked!!! I then tried to call [redacted] and couldn't get through to anyone. I was in a panic, I was feeling deceived and upset as what I was being told, so I emailed [redacted] asking him to please explain and if he was unable to resolve the issue for me that I would be contacting the corporate office. The next call that I get is from the Purchase Relations Manager - [redacted]. I could not believe how he immediately jumped all over me telling me that he had a hard time believing that this was said to me. He began to tell me that given my current work experience that I should be smarter than that to get stuff in writing. I asked him if he was insinuating that his manager was unable to be trusted, that's when the conversation got really heated. He became very defensive and condescending, saying an array of rude comments to me, at which point I hung up on him. I called back and spoke with [redacted], which seemed very helpful until I realized she was in the same department as [redacted] and that became very obvious. That night I went home so upset that I had fallen victim to this timeshare scam and started to do some research on the company and found several complaints that fall in line with my experience (see attached)I then went to the Revdex.com website and saw that they were not accredited by the Revdex.com and began reading the other complaints on that site. At this point I felt that I had no option but report this company to the Revdex.com. I received an email the next morning from [redacted] explaining that she was no longer able to assist me due to me reporting this to the Revdex.com. (see email attached)and that the only person in the entire company that I'm able to work with his [redacted] which I refuse to speak with again after his extremely degrading comments to me on the phone previously. I responded to [redacted] that I wanted to have my automatic payments stopped, and I asked [redacted] to please let me know how we need to go about doing a Deed in Lieu. I want out of this contract, it is unfair that a company can do such hard selling and be deceitful to their customers and get away with it. I don't appreciate being told that I'm trying to escape my responsibilities and that I need to be honest about my statements. I think it's time that this company look at the honesty of their employees. At this point, I know that I was scammed out of close to $950.00 by this company and I will not let them steal another dime from me. All that I would like assistance with is doing a Deed in Lieu, to avoid all the unnecessary collections procedures. It's the least that they can do to rectify the situation. I understand that this is my word against [redacted], and I'm not sure how he sleeps as night. Unfortunately, I have learned a hard lesson here.
Regards,
[redacted]
Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted] The gentleman is correct about one thing: we have had "bad use years"The salesmen told we could go to the Cape and didn't tell us we would have to upgrade or get more points to actually do this when we wanted to do thisThey didn't tell us that the amount of points w got - not a lot - would guarantee that we wouldn't get there in the summertimeOn purpose they induced us to buy something they knew we would have to upgrade IF we wanted to use it the way we told them we planned Regards, [redacted]
Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted] Regards, [redacted]
Ms [redacted] spoke to an agent on the phone that explained that the airfares have to be used in conjunction with specific hotels at her destinations Our protocol, once a client has accepted the offer and makes an appointment with the agent, is a Manager gets on the phone and reviews all of the criteria and terms and conditions of the offer The manager then re-confirms the client's email address so we are able to email all of the details of the offer to the client within one hour of talking with usMs [redacted] did receive this letter and has acknowledges as muchPlease see below my response to Ms [redacted] 's allegations:Bessie, please open and read the attached confirmation letter you were emailed the day you made the appointment to attend the promotion at the [redacted] On the first page, second paragraph, it states clearly that you must select accommodations from the airfare ticketing agency: Your Gifts! “Fly AwayGetaway.” This fabulous vacation package is good for four (4) Round-Trip Airfares good for two years from issue date, for two separate vacationsWhen using airfares, select accommodations must be reserved though the airfare ticketing agency, First Priority Travel You have choices at vacation destinationsThere is a day advance notice required to book reservations Only major air carriers are utilized On page of the letter, it goes into great detail about the use of the airfares We are unable to alter the use and/or the terms and conditions of this vacation package As for being told 'no strings attached', that did not happen, as that would be dishonest and totally counter-productive Why we would lie to a client on the phone, then email them the truth minutes after we speak with them? You will need to redeem the airfares according to the terms and conditions of use.This is no further resolution to this complaint [redacted] ***TripJoy Advantage/InnSeason Resorts
Ok, so there were a couple of anonymous reviews of our program that lack any facts or substance or context on their situation and the Revdex.com non-accreditation has more to do with our company not paying a subscription fee than on our performance In fact, in the attached file from the customer, the Revdex.com gave our company an A- on a scale of A to F.Anyways, we are not looking to argue over the public airwaves on whether you think the program is a good value; however, we are having to defend ourselves against a baseless attack when a customer uses scathing language to characterize our program as a 100% scam, such as this customer without any legitimate supporting evidence In my initial response, I provided MANY options for this customer to travel on February school vacation week for as little as $for the entire week in a resort condo She claims she had already booked a stay through a travel agency for the same week for only $ Can she show us something to prove that? Was it comparable? Was it a resort condo or a hotel room miles outside Orlando? These are the kind of questions that I would ask anyone who makes blanket statements that what the program is offering is not comparable to what they can do on their own online or through a travel agency But, when I ask reasonable questions of the customer to determine the facts or the situation, she calls that rude and condescending since she feels that I do not take her word at face value She may be right, but I have helped thousands of owners and customers to find great resort stays for the last years working for our company and whenever someone uses terms like, "there is nothing ever available" or "this doesn't work at all", etc, then it's frustrating when we know there are tons of options to use the points or pay a discounted Extra Vacation Getaway.I provided example before and she did not refute those examples that show there are ample opportunities, yet her complaint said there is nothing available Also, I am now attaching examples to use points for Orlando where she can book a stay for 19,points for the February school vacation week or if she books on short notice, then she can book for as little as 7,points for the entire week in a condo That's less than half of her annual point allocation There are over units currently available that are less than 10,points for a full week in a resort condo for Orlando.The fact is that the customer did not allow us to attempt to help her before she ran off and filed this complaint FACT We are not going to let her off the hook on this contract when she hasn't made a good faith attempt to use it and when our company has not breached or misrepresented our program I believe that this complaint should be closed so we can attempt to start communicating in a meaningful way with the customer in an attempt to show her how to use her points or use the discounted stays with ***.She is asking us to rectify this situation by letting her just walk away from her obligation Well, I suggest we start by talking it out on the phone or we can invite her back to the resort to do a tutorial I have provided hard evidence to support that the program works and that she can go using either points or very discounted stays
I called and spoke with the customer this morning to review the situation and we had a productive conversation and we have scheduled an online meeting so I can demonstrate how to use the program with RCI Points and other benefits of the program I hope that the online meeting will give her the tools and understanding on how to benefit from the exchange program plus the other extra vacation getaways with RCI and Bonus Weeks with InnSeason Resorts.Sincerely, [redacted] Purchase Relations ManagerInnSeason Resorts
We will send this owner at $ [redacted] Gas Card to resolve this complaint [redacted] ***V.Pof MarketingInnSeason Resorts
Mr*** spoke to myself, *** ***, the same person responding to this complaint and I am on the Board of Directors for the Association and offered to make an exception to assist him for not responding to his annual invoice in a prompt manner nor making any attempt to reach out to the Association that he agreed to pay within the timeframe provided in the Billing & Collection Policy.Mr*** was provided with information on his options to sell the ownership last year and I have offered to do a "Release Agreement" that was approved in accordance with the Resolution of the Board of Directors. If the owner wishes to take advantage of that offer, then he has days to set that in motion; otherwise that offer will expire after the calendar days.If someone agrees to own a program that requires annual fees until they transfer the ownership to someone else, then it's not a scam to expect that individual to honor those written agreements they entered into on their own free will. If the person just stops paying and ignores the consequences, then the company is not the bad guy for following through on the policies of the resort that were disclosed and agreed to by the owner of the resort.I have called Mr*** back to attempt to relay this sentiment over the phone but we have to agree to disagree on the matter but I will honor the offer we made if he takes action within the next calendar days. *** *** Purchase Relations ManagerInnSeason Vacation Club
I spoke to Mr*** this afternoon after he called into our corporate office to complain that he should just be able to cancel at anytime. I explained to Mr*** that he purchased a program that has a beneficial interest in real property, so it was not like a "gym membership" and he
agreed to the terms and conditions of that ownership over years ago in writing.Our Board of Directors will permit him to be released from the ownership if he satisfies several requirements, which I emailed to him this afternoon without knowing he even filed a Revdex.com complaint against our company. I would expect that he should respond back to the Revdex.com that we provided him an option to pay the balance due on his account, perform the other steps required and that our company afforded him an opportunity to terminate his account in accordance with the Board of Directors Resolution.I also sent the owner a copy of the Billing & Collection Policy that he received in November for the fees due on January 1, and those fees were never paid and he was sent to an outside collection agency in accordance with the Billing & Collection Policy that he has followed for years now
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ***Once again, they want more money from me. Someone called me after this complain and asked me to pay them, and pay their collection agency and so onThis never ends. I have been trying to cancel this for the past few years without any successThey told me that is was never an option. Now, their policy somehow changedThey want to buy my timeshare, pay me nothing for it and have me pay them additional $for paperwork. What a scam!
Regards,
*** ***
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ***.
In response to the message from Inn season, which I do insist are not accurate.I will be attaching dates from my cell phone records and email of all the attempted communications on my part to the Billing department, which went without a return call or email responseOn or before October 15, I called to speak to a representative at the Inn Season Billing departmentI explained that my pay had gone from bi-weekly to once a month and may need to make permanent changes in the months to comeI was guaranteed that Inn Season would be happy to help meThe billing date was changed without an issue.November 10, I called again and spoke with the same representative and explained that I needed to permanently change my billing date to no earlier than the 26thThe friendly woman suggested we change it to the 28th so that my check had time to postI was told that no other action was needed and that it was all taken care ofAt no point was I informed I needed to call again or that it was a "one time courtesy"I trusted the representative. I was never informed that Inn Season was not the appropriate contact for handling my mortgage paymentsI would never have continued calling Inn season if they had told me that.December 12, I emailed Inn Season via their website, which is one of their preferred/recommended methods to make inquiriesIn my email I mentioned that I was in the process of purchasing a home and needed my mortgage statements as well as monthly invoicesI also wanted to confirm the permanent change to my billing dateI have a "Contact Request Acknowledgement" email that I received on 12/12/at 12:40am, an automatically generated response to my original email to Inn seasonTo date, I have not received a single email or voicemail in response this request that was acknowledged by Inn Season.December 15, I was charged on the 15th and so I left a voicemail asking the Billing department to call me in regards to a billing concernI referenced my earlier call to permanently change my billing dateWith the holidays I put this issue aside, believing that I would receive a call backI never received a call back, nor an emailI even double checked my voicemailAgain, no one returned my call.January 18, Again I was charged on the wrong dateSince I felt the Billing department was not capable of assisting me, I was forced to review two years of emails to find *** *.'s emailThis has been the only employee from the Billing department who had returned my calls and emailsHe had been the only one to show any interest in my accountAfter four months of getting no where I had grown very frustrated.I called *** on 1/18/at 1:01pmI was very frustrated and I explained to *** that he had been the only person to return any of my calls and for that reason wanted his help in reaching a manager who could assist me with my mortgage datesI let him know I wanted to find a solution and just be done with this issueHe said he understood and would find me the managerHe transferred me to *** ** When she answered I tried to explain my situation and what I wanted to accomplish, but when I mentioned that I no longer wanted to work with her team due to their inability to follow through, *** grew vey defensive and started talking over me, she was not interested in hearing the full issueInstead she continued to interrupt me and showed no concern whatsoever for the frustration her team had caused meI told her I was not interested in excuses but needed a solutionI was not going to continue arguing with herShe screamed over me that the only thing she was going to do was make sure the withdrawals came out on the 15th again and that I just needed to make sure money was thereIt was clear to me that *** was not the person to speak to so I demanded to speak to her manager, she refused to give me any informationShe claimed she was the top of the departmentI hung up and called *** at 1:13pmWhen *** picked up the call, I could hear *** screaming in the background, "under no circumstance are you to help her"I asked *** for her Director's contact information, I could still hear *** in the background trying to control the conversation*** at one point stated that he wasn't sure what the issue was and didn't understand why she wouldn't change the dates for meHe suggested I try calling other resorts until someone else was allowed to help me.1:23pm I spoke with a location in ***The front desk person was trying to assist me, while she read my account notes OUT LOUD to me, she reviewed a note from 12/12/asking that someone return my inquiry, which of course she realized no one ever hadShe gave me *** *contact information and strongly encouraged me to submit a written grievance to Inn SeasonWhich I still intend on doingI left a message for *** asking for a call back as soon as possibleI have not heard from anyone.I do not accept the 23rd as my payment dateIf the 26th is not available, then I will accept the 1st of the month, beginning February 1, I have reached out to my bank and they will be refunding the over draft feesSince Inn Season has proven they do not care about my account and are not worthy of my trust, they can call me after the 26th of each month in order to process "one time payments" each monthMy intent in reaching out to Inn Season resort was to continue with my mortgage payments responsibly and without lapseI will not be calling them as they fabricate their "notes" to suit themselvesAll communications must be in writing via my email *** including confirmation of the permanent change of my billing date to the 1st of each month starting February 1stIf I do not receive a confirmation email in a timely manner I will close this account before February 1st, per my bank's advice
Regards,
*** ***
The customer states that *** lied about our company offering to buy back their timeshare at any time. Yet, it's not in the agreement, which does include in the Buyers Acknowledgements' a section that is initialed and signed by the customer that states they have the right to rescind the contract within a certain number of days (it varies on the state) to review their purchase and cancel for any reason within that time-frame and receive a full refund. This is in writing and signed and initialed by the customer and is not disputable. Nor did the customer choose to rescind the agreement within the allowable number of days.If a representative of any product offers to provide a guaranteed "buy back" for a product to a customer, then the consumer should demand for that to be put in writing IF that was really offered and IF that is a material reason why I felt comfortable in purchasing the productThe customer bought a beneficial interest in the Master Trust that holds title to the real property at that resort. It is an asset and many millions of people use timeshare and RCI Points each year to take wonderful vacations all over the world and this customer has not even attempted to book or use the points, but demands we refund her money or buy back the program, while also signing for a Promissory Note for that purchase.As far as the campground assertion, it would have been pretty evident by looking through the RCI resort directory or going on the website (not login needed to view resorts in RCI) to determine that there are no campgrounds in the directory. As I mentioned, there are some alternative types of vacation options; however, with over 4,resorts in their system, campgrounds were not something RCI is trying to fulfill with its exchange options. We have many timeshare owners who do own travel trailers or RV's and still get great value and benefit from the RCI Points program, so wanting to do camping doesn't mean people still don't want to stay in a resort condo from time to time.Both of the main issues of a buyback program or campground locations (or as the customer states are lies) were items that could have been confirmed after the initial purchase but before their right to cancel had expired by making a phone call or viewing the RCI website once they went home if they didn't want to review the directory. As such, once past the rescission period, the contract is legally binding for the duration and will not be canceled since I do not find anythng to support any misrepresentation of the product or RCI program.Based on the statements in the rebuttal, the customers read some negative remarks or reviews of timeshare in general and are looking to back out of the agreement without even trying to use it or accepting our assistance in showing them how to book reservations online. It's a buyers remorse situation and not worthy to cancel a valid agreement that they had the opportunity to rescind but didn't.Sincerely,*** ***InnSeason Resorts
This consumer sent an email to our Sales Manager yesterday to ask for assistance and to call him a liar for misrepresenting the program and threatened to contact the corporate office if he did not respond by Noon today, Friday August 21st. The Manager, on his day off, responded to the
issues in her complaint email and stated he would work with her on helping her with her arrangements and he also corrected some misinformation that she stated in her email. The Manager also copied myself, *** ***, the Purchase ?Relations Manager for the company on the email so I reached out by phone and called the consumer to see if I can help provide some assistance before the Manager returned to work on Friday morning.As part of the first day incentive, our company provided an Extra Vacation Getaway for $from *** (exchange partner) to be used by the customer and the consumer claims that the Manager promised the incentive could be used for Orlando on February School Vacation Week for (Feb 20-26). There are sample dates for various locations on the certificate that show what inventory would be available for that $price and no where on that form has the state of Florida in February. It could be used for January or August to December for the $price and it clearly shows that on the certificate (see attached). There was no promises made to the consumer that this certificate could be used for February school vacation week for $249. There are ample opportunities (over resorts) to book an Extra Vacation Getaway for that week starting a price of $for the full week. The average price of those offers is around $530.00, which is a great deal for a condo on February school vacation week with months advance notice.She also complained that there is nothing available, but as you see the attached, that is not the case. There are over resorts with availability with either an arrival date of Feb 19, or 21st for a full week stay in a condo in Orlando area. Instead of the consumer waiting until this afternoon for our office to reach out to the Manager to ask for his side of the story and allow us to attempt to help her with the issues, she went ahead and filed a Revdex.com complaint that lacks any real facts or has any merit. There is no breach of contract, there is no supporting documentation on her behalf that we promised something that was no delivered.The consumer also claimed that the sales team lied to her about how far in advance she could book Bonus Time at one of the InnSeason locations, she claimed she was told days in advance (see her email dated 8/20/15). The Manager emailed back that her Gold Card benefits allowed her to book only days in advance, and that was clearly marked on the back of her Gold Card and how and where to call to book such stays. Even though that was in writing, she still claimed we lied and tricked her on that one as well.The customer was upset that I would not just "cancel out" the contract due to what she thought was broken promises. I asked her questions about the $incentive week that were reasonable and fair. I asked her if she read the sample locations and dates on the back of the certificate and she said yes. I explained the certificate does not offer Florida for the month of February, only January or August to December and she then fired back, "but he promised he could get us there for Feb 20-26". I asked the consumer if he was promising something that was different that what was offered on the certificate, whether she asked him to write that down on the certificate and sign it, but she said she didn't think to ask. I also asked her if she saw the phone number on the top of the certificate for the company that fulfills the certificates and she said yes. I asked her if she asked to call them either while she was on site and before she purchased to verify that she could get Florida in February 20-or after she returned home to call them while she was still in her days rescission period and she said "no". So, if this one-time certificate for $was the reason for her to purchase and she had many opportunities to verify whether she could go on school vacation in February during her rescission "cooling off" period, then why not take minutes and call the company that would fulfill the incentive?? Why, is because it was not promised at the time of purchase and this claim has only come up after the consumer wanted to "cancel out" of her contract and was looking to find a way to make an excuse beyond her legal rescission period.I told the customer that if the Manger had promised to get her to Orlando for February 20-with the incentive certificate, that I would honor that and make the Manager pay the difference between the price of her Extra Vacation Getaway of $450-and the $on the certificate. BUT, she did not even wait for our follow up the next day, she filed a complaint with the Revdex.com less than hours later and then emailed to our company to stop her automatic payments for her loan. Our companied complied with her request; however, she is still liable for the loan payments and the yearly maintenance fees on the interval she purchased.She said she wishes she had read some of the reviews before she bought, but as I can see that her complaint is littered with inaccurate claims and not supporting facts, then it's hard to place stock on the complaints we see online from customers who simply want to complain the loudest in hopes they can avoid their financial obligations they legally entered. Our company is here to help her to use the program and show her how to take the vacations she wants. I have shown you over units available to stay for the week she wants (school vacation) for less than $per night for a condo (not a hotel room).We hope she starts to become willing to accept her responsibilities and get honest and let us help her with her program instead of just throwing out inaccurate statements that are not substantiated and do not come close to being a reason for canceling her contract
Revdex.com:
T, A LIAR AND A MANIPULATOR. His tactics will not work on us. The harassment we have received in recent months will come back tenfold. We are not just going after this company, we are going straight after M. [redacted]. Our agreement was based on falsehoods and pressure and nothing of which is valid. We hope you sleep well Mr. [redacted] because this will not be the last you have heard from us.
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted].
I would like to reject business's response for the following reasons:As stated in my previous responses, we have not argued anything in regards to our contract and what it entails. What we were told by [redacted], which we took to be honest, truthful information was nothing of the sort. Again, Mr. [redacted] is not addressing the true concerns we have provided. We have not argued what was in the contract. We are not denying things should be put in writing, hence why we are on the Revdex.com right now arguing with this incompetent jerk, so everyone can see just how relentless this company is. We were absolutely told about a buy back program, and if there is nothing of the sort, Mr. [redacted] should be making sure these salesmen have proper training and are aware of the effects of having salesmen lie to their customers. Timeshare is not an asset. It is a burden and a money whole and for him to say anything of the sort truly shows his delusion. If it were such an asset, maybe he can explain to me why there are so many people trying and failing to sell their timeshares, or even give them away. NO ONE WANTS THIS BURDEN, AND NO ONE WANTS THEIR CHILDREN TO HAVE IT EITHER. It is an absolute money pit, WORTHLESS. We are absolutely demanding cancelation with a refund because we have been taken advantage of and the mockery we are receiving from Mr. [redacted] is truly impeccable. We did not come up with these lies we were told out of thin air. AGAIN, since Mr. [redacted] has such terrible memoery, and clearly a lack of any compassion, we were spoken to of the opportunity to camp with our timeshare. We wouldn’t have purchased anything if we were not lied to about the opportunity to camp. It’s amazing that we have to keep reiterating ourselves over and over again, like it just is not sinking in. We made it clear during our purchase we wanted to camp with our timeshare, as it was an option provided to us, and [redacted] told us this was absolutely possible, and to discover we were lied to is insulting. We were confirmed in the initial purchase by [redacted] that both the buyback program and campground assurances were accurate and true. The pressure that was put on us to purchase absolutely effected our decision. Mr. [redacted] continues to put words in our mouth and thoughts in our mind, that are not accurate. This behavior truly explains why [redacted] ( and we are sure others) act the way they do. They are learning from the master of lies and relentless behavior. If Mr. [redacted] believes this will be the last he hears form us, he is in for a rude awakening. WE DO NOT HAVE BUYER’ S REMORSE! THIS MAN IS AN I
Regards,
[redacted]
Our suggestion to the customer was to speak directly with the lender, [redacted], since she felt there was not a clear understanding that the "request" to change the draft dates had not been completed due to the date she requested is not a date allowed by the lender.After receiving the rebuttal to our initial response, I asked the Manager at InnSeason to email a [redacted] Manager to reach out to the customer with the particulars and see if they can work things out. I just read an email from the [redacted] manager that was sent to the customer with an option to change her draft date to better serve her situation, so hopefully, the customer will respond to the [redacted] service team directly to complete that request.InnSeason's internal team was only a conduit to assist with the lender, [redacted]. We did not have the power to permanently change her draft date for each month, which is why we had suggested to her prior to the complaint to speak directly with [redacted]. Now she is doing that and they can help her with the request.Sincerely,[redacted]
Purchase Relations Manager, InnSeason
Before we get to all the discrepancies in your examples of vacations that you claim are "available" to me. I'd like to start by saying that the reviews that I read and provided are very much confirmed by my experiences with you company, I'm taking this to the public airwaves in hopes that the next person that considers your company for a timeshare will ready this and not become a victim to this nightmare I've found myself in. Your [redacted] page as a review on it that also confirms what a difficult company you are to deal with, but hey, I guess we are all just lying.Now, let's address the printouts that you attached for me. The first resort you circled for me [redacted] #5169 sleeps 4 people (I have 6 as I've stated previously), you show this being 19,000 points, however when I log into my [redacted] account and call and confirm with [redacted] the points needed to book this are 66,000 points (See attachment). Much more than I have. My favorite of all the resorts you circled for an example is [redacted] at [redacted] - East Village (#8896), this is my favorite example because of a few reasons.....First this is one of the resorts that I contacted [redacted] to look into for me, for which he never got back to me on, he had Harold call me and tell me that I needed to contact [redacted] to book this. Second reason, When I contacted [redacted] to book this resort(#8896), they informed me that I did not have enough points to book this, I would need 83,000 (See attachment). It took me a few minutes of really looking at the example you provided [redacted] to realize that the example that you provided to me for resort# 8896 is for the WRONG date range....no wonder it is only 7,500 points, but if you can book it for me for 7,500 points then I guess we don't have an issue do we??? Before you start throwing baseless accusations around such as I just don't want to hear what you have to offer, how about you make sure your facts & attachments are accurate.You also are requesting that I prove to you that I can/have booked a room for $437 through a travel agency. I do not have to prove anything to you, that is an unreasonable request. I did consider attaching my previous booking, however, it does have some personal information in it that I don't think is appropriate to be posted on this site.I will not attend another "tutorial" seminar, will you attend a customer service seminar? I have NEVER had such terrible customer service in my life. I deal with the public on a daily basis and the way that you spoke to me on the phone was horrendous. Does your company record calls? I'd really like for someone to hear that call as it says it all. I'm not asking to walk away from the obligation that I "THOUGHT" I was signing up for. I'm asking to be let out of a contract that was misrepresented to me. I know that I will never recoup the almost $950.00 that I handed over to your company in full trust, so in return for that $950.00, I will request again, a Deed in Lieu back to your company. I want nothing to do with EVER owning a timeshare again or doing business with your company again. I was always told to stay away from timeshare companies because it's never what it seems, I guess I'm learning the hard way.
Regards,
[redacted]
Ok, so there were a couple of anonymous reviews of our program that lack any facts or substance or context on their situation and the Revdex.com non-accreditation has more to do with our company not paying a subscription fee than on our performance. In fact, in the attached file from the customer, the Revdex.com gave our company an A- on a scale of A to F.Anyways, we are not looking to argue over the public airwaves on whether you think the program is a good value; however, we are having to defend ourselves against a baseless attack when a customer uses scathing language to characterize our program as a 100% scam, such as this customer without any legitimate supporting evidence. In my initial response, I provided MANY options for this customer to travel on February school vacation week for as little as $437 for the entire week in a resort condo. She claims she had already booked a stay through a travel agency for the same week for only $440.00. Can she show us something to prove that? Was it comparable? Was it a resort condo or a hotel room 20 miles outside Orlando? These are the kind of questions that I would ask anyone who makes blanket statements that what the program is offering is not comparable to what they can do on their own online or through a travel agency. But, when I ask reasonable questions of the customer to determine the facts or the situation, she calls that rude and condescending since she feels that I do not take her word at face value. She may be right, but I have helped thousands of owners and customers to find great resort stays for the last 13 years working for our company and whenever someone uses terms like, "there is nothing ever available" or "this doesn't work at all", etc, then it's frustrating when we know there are tons of options to use the points or pay a discounted Extra Vacation Getaway.I provided example before and she did not refute those examples that show there are ample opportunities, yet her complaint said there is nothing available. Also, I am now attaching examples to use points for Orlando where she can book a stay for 19,000 points for the February school vacation week or if she books on short notice, then she can book for as little as 7,500 points for the entire week in a condo. That's less than half of her annual point allocation. There are over 161 units currently available that are less than 10,000 points for a full week in a resort condo for Orlando.The fact is that the customer did not allow us to attempt to help her before she ran off and filed this complaint. FACT. We are not going to let her off the hook on this contract when she hasn't made a good faith attempt to use it and when our company has not breached or misrepresented our program. I believe that this complaint should be closed so we can attempt to start communicating in a meaningful way with the customer in an attempt to show her how to use her points or use the discounted stays with [redacted].She is asking us to rectify this situation by letting her just walk away from her obligation. Well, I suggest we start by talking it out on the phone or we can invite her back to the resort to do a tutorial. I have provided hard evidence to support that the program works and that she can go using either points or very discounted stays.
Our office received this complaint and I attempted to reach the customer by phone and left a voice message, then sent an email to him to ask to speak to him by phone so we can address his issues before sending in this response to the Revdex.com. In my experience, it's always helpful to have a...
conversation with someone who feels they have an issue with our company or the product that they purchased.The customer felt that they would not be billed for the fees for 2016 until next year; however, all timeshare resorts do their budget in the Fall and bill to its owners so they can collect the 2016 assessments prior to January 1st. The resort is managed by [redacted] who sent an invoice to the customer for 2016 Use Year and he may have spoken to a representative from [redacted] who explained the billiing and collection policy for the resort. They can work with the customer to spread out the fee over a few months. At the beginning of each year, the customer can set up a pre-payment plan for the NEXT Use Year. For example, once the 2016 fees are paid, then the customer can set up the pre-payment plan for their 2017 fees, and that fee will be spread out over the remainder of 2016. If the customer sets up the plan in late February, then they will split up the payment plan for 2017 into 10 equal payments. It's designed to allow people to "escrow" each month towards the next years fees.The customer was provided a rescission period for his purchase and if the way they bill and collect for the fees were a material reason whether he would keep or not keep the timeshare, then he should have consulted with the management company within the rescission period. He wants to cancel outside of the rescission period and he also filed a credit card dispute on the deposit and initial payment on the timeshare. I'd like a chance to have a conversation with the customer and attempt to resolve the matter with how his bill will be collected for 2016 and how to utilize the pre-payment plan for 2017 along with addressing his credit card dispute.The RCI points program works well and I can also work with him individually to show him how to use the points online with RCI. He lives close to our corporate office, so it'd be beneficial to arrange a meeting in person or at least a phone conversation to clear up the matter.We appreciate the opportunity to address any and all complaints and we strive to work with our customers and our affiliates to make sure our customers are satisfied with their programs.Sincerely[redacted]Purchase Relations Mgr[redacted]
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # [redacted]..
Thank you for assisting us in our distress with this company. In response to Mr. [redacted], in fact we do have a wonderful memory of what took place at this meeting and insist that we were absolutely lied to and taken advantage of. If we were fully aware of the inconsistencies of the what we were told in our meeting and what was actually in the contract, we would have never agreed to sign. In fact, Mr. [redacted] claims our letter was received at the end of October. We sent that letter out at the end of SEPTEMBER. It took a month to receive any correspondence to our complaint whatsoever. The only correspondence we ever received was an email stating Mr. [redacted] would love to speak with us on our claims, but when we attempted to reach out, he was suddenly unavailable via email. We NEVER received the written response that Mr. [redacted] stated via email would be provided the Friday following the email sent October 26th. Clearly, this shows lack of integrity as it took us exposing our concerns to the public to receive a response to our concerns. If there are inconsistencies between what was stated then and what is written in this response, how can we believe he has any true information about what took place in our meeting? Especially since, Mr. [redacted] was not the sales agent involved. If Mr. [redacted] took such great notes, we would like to be provided with such notes as we do not believe this is true. Unfortunately, we do not agree with the claim that [redacted] explained the program well as he only gave partial truths. As stated, we were told owning timeshare was an asset. Asset is defined as “property owned by a person or company, regarded as having value and available to meet debts, commitments, or legacies”. This “property” has no true value as no one wants it. It is so easy to go on the internet and see the thousands of individuals trying to give their timeshares away because they are such a burden and a trap. We were made to believe this timeshare was a benefit for our children, not an obligation. This is incomplete information that should have been fully addressed by [redacted] at the presentation. As stated in the letter, [redacted] made it a point to tell us we could write off this timeshare on our taxes. If he is not a tax professional, this should’ve never been in our conversation. He never stated he was not a tax professional, but he also never made it clear that he was not. Half- information is a deceitful tactic that is essentially a lie, which is the reason we have emphasized repeatedly that we were lied to in the complaint we submitted. We were told at the purchase meeting fees were to be minimal. There was no mention of this only being a possibility. If minimal maintenance fees is only a possibility, then this should be made clear at the meeting. There should be no possibilities provided as absolutes. [redacted] told us we would save more all around with owning a timeshare, than if we purchased vacations outright. Due to rising annual yearly fees, this timeshare obligation never ends. If we receive maintenance fees that increase annually, we can only imagine how great these fees will be once our timeshare is paid off. By then, we could have traveled to numerous places without the stress of this timeshare. [redacted] guaranteed at the meeting that InnSeasons would have no issue buying our timeshare back. We couldn’t have come up with such information from thin air. We would not have known of such a possibility, if it was not stated to us. As confirmed by Mr. [redacted] in his response, no such thing exists. If there is no such program, we were blatantly lied to, as we reiterated continuously through our initial complaint. Mr. [redacted] may have never provided such assurances as a buyback of an ownership HIMSELF, but that does not mean we were not given this option as matter of fact from [redacted]. Mr. [redacted] has his facts mixed up as we received this “helpful” email he claims to have provided AFTER disputing our ownership as we sent our very first letter out September 20th. Regardless, we do not need help using this ridiculous timeshare. We only want out of the contract with no further obligations to the timeshare or debt that we took on under false pretenses. Again, if campground provisions were not consistent with what timeshare offers, we were lied to by [redacted] as he told us we could go camping with our timeshare. It infuriates us that we are being called liars right now. If we were not lied to, we would not be going through this much energy to get out of this timeshare. We do not care about the possible locations available to vacation with our timeshare. We care about the fact that we were assured we could use our timeshare to go camping and we can’t. We have not changed our minds about anything. Our minds were manipulated to believe we were making an investment that has turned out to be a money sink hole. We do not want assistance to “better use RCI”. We stand firm in our request to cancel our contract with a refund of the money we have sent up until this point.
Regards,
[redacted]
I called and spoke with the customer this morning to review the situation and we had a productive conversation and we have scheduled an online meeting so I can demonstrate how to use the program with RCI Points and other benefits of the program. I hope that the online meeting will give...
her the tools and understanding on how to benefit from the exchange program plus the other extra vacation getaways with RCI and Bonus Weeks with InnSeason Resorts.Sincerely,[redacted]Purchase Relations ManagerInnSeason Resorts
This all began on July 11, 2015 when my fiancé and I decided to check out a timeshare sales pitch as we were in the middle of planning a trip to [redacted] for February vacation. Our sales rep's were [redacted] (not sure of the last name) and manager [redacted]. We had their undivided attention as we were the only people that showed up that morning at 9am. The normal sales pitch began and my fiancé and I were very skeptical. [redacted] and [redacted] asked us when we were looking to go on vacation. I explained to them both that I already had a hotel booked through a travel agency for February 20-26, 2016 for school vacation for $440.00, as we were taking our family to [redacted]. [redacted] said they could beat that price all day long, they both proceeded to ask me if I'd like to be inside [redacted] for my vacation? What parent of four children would not want that, they said they could make that happen. As [redacted] flipped through a book tell us that the average number of points at a place in Orlando FL averages between 9,000 and 11,000 points. Either his book was way out dated or this was part of the scam to get us to buy into the timeshare. [redacted] then presented us with a certificate for a seven night stay for $249.00** I immediately flipped the certificate over and asked him why there were sample dates, that the dates we are looking to use the timeshare were not listed on here. He quickly said..."[redacted], those are SAMPLES only, when the time comes call me if you have any trouble, I will be sure you can utilize this." I was then told by [redacted] that I should use the certificate for the hotel to get the cheaper price and then just purchase my airfare. As you can imagine this was all seeming pretty awesome. My fiancé and I asked on several occasions, are you sure that this isn't something we are going to buy now and find out later that we can not use. [redacted] comment "do I look like a scam artist?" I will assist you through booking your first few vacations, do not to worry. On Monday July 13, 2015 after signing all the paperwork and doing my $100.00 deposit on Saturday, I had to call and complete the purchase of the timeshare for $690.00. I called [redacted], and again asked him to confirm that I could definitely use the $249.00 gift certificate timeshare for my February vacation. I explained that the money I was about to give him to purchase the timeshare was the money I saved to take my family to [redacted] and that I needed to be sure that I would be able to use this, he promised me once again, not to worry, he would handle everything for me.I called a [redacted] the end of July and we played phone tag a few times. When I finally spoke to him I said that I would like to know what hotels were going to be available to me in February and I gave him the dates (again) he told me he would look into it and get back to me. He never called me back. After a week and a half of waiting for [redacted] to call I placed two more calls each time leaving messages cause he was either not there or with a customer. Finally I received a call back from [redacted], who seemed annoyed with me for continuing to call. At this point I began to worry that I had fallen victim to a few savvy salesmen. [redacted] explained to me that they were unable to confirm anything regarding vacations etc. as my account with [redacted] had not been setup yet. He explained that this would take 6-8 weeks, once I received my membership that I really should be contacting [redacted] to book the vacation not Inn Season. This was upsetting to me once more because [redacted] had promised to walk me through everything when the time came. I waited until my account with [redacted] was setup which was official on August 19th, and called [redacted] immediately to try to confirm everything that had been told to me about booking etc., this is when I learned that all of what was presented to me at the time of the sale was inaccurate. [redacted] explained that the dates that I wanted to utilize the Extra Vacation Getaway was not available. I then asked about being able to utilize my points to possibly book a vacation, I was told that I did not have enough points. I purchased 17,600 points and most places ranged between 45,000 -100,000. I then asked him how I was supposed to be able to use this timeshare that I was sold. The representative explained that he could get me into a room for seven night for about $750.00 for the week plus taxes/fees. I was shocked!!! I then tried to call [redacted] and couldn't get through to anyone. I was in a panic, I was feeling deceived and upset as what I was being told, so I emailed [redacted] asking him to please explain and if he was unable to resolve the issue for me that I would be contacting the corporate office. The next call that I get is from the Purchase Relations Manager - [redacted]. I could not believe how he immediately jumped all over me telling me that he had a hard time believing that this was said to me. He began to tell me that given my current work experience that I should be smarter than that to get stuff in writing. I asked him if he was insinuating that his manager was unable to be trusted, that's when the conversation got really heated. He became very defensive and condescending, saying an array of rude comments to me, at which point I hung up on him. I called back and spoke with [redacted], which seemed very helpful until I realized she was in the same department as [redacted] and that became very obvious. That night I went home so upset that I had fallen victim to this timeshare scam and started to do some research on the company and found several complaints that fall in line with my experience (see attached)I then went to the Revdex.com website and saw that they were not accredited by the Revdex.com and began reading the other complaints on that site. At this point I felt that I had no option but report this company to the Revdex.com. I received an email the next morning from [redacted] explaining that she was no longer able to assist me due to me reporting this to the Revdex.com. (see email attached)and that the only person in the entire company that I'm able to work with his [redacted] which I refuse to speak with again after his extremely degrading comments to me on the phone previously. I responded to [redacted] that I wanted to have my automatic payments stopped, and I asked [redacted] to please let me know how we need to go about doing a Deed in Lieu. I want out of this contract, it is unfair that a company can do such hard selling and be deceitful to their customers and get away with it. I don't appreciate being told that I'm trying to escape my responsibilities and that I need to be honest about my statements. I think it's time that this company look at the honesty of their employees. At this point, I know that I was scammed out of close to $950.00 by this company and I will not let them steal another dime from me. All that I would like assistance with is doing a Deed in Lieu, to avoid all the unnecessary collections procedures. It's the least that they can do to rectify the situation. I understand that this is my word against [redacted], and I'm not sure how he sleeps as night. Unfortunately, I have learned a hard lesson here.
Regards,
[redacted]