Jim Morrison Plumbing, LLP

Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 10, 2015/10/13) */ ***response has been scanned in and converted to text below (original document is available using the online complaint system) To Whom It May Concern It appears to me that many of these allegations stem from assumptions by Mr [redacted] The first being that only reason this drain would leak is because of a poor installationAs a plumber, I had a strong indication that the drain he provided was going to be a problem because of the quality of his materials, which consisted of a schedule unionAny experienced plumber knows that trying to force two plastic pieces together by applying tension is bound to cause problems - either the fittings are going to crack or the pressure from the wrench will force the sittings to be misshapen, causing them not to turn properlyAlso, the natural expansion/contraction qualities of Sch, pipe will most commonly be manifested at a mechanical joint such as a unionThis is the same concept used by auto mechanics to loosen a rusty bolt from an engine block I tried towam Mr [redacted] of these drawbacks the first times became aware and saw these drains on the job siteHe immediately dismissed my concerns, saying something to the effect of, "this is the drain I have, and this is the one we're installing", and refused to listen to any more about it Another assumption, if it leaks the plumber must six it on his dimeGenerally I would agree with this statement, howeverthere are always exceptionsThe main exception in this case is, the drain assembly was not provided by me or my professional plumbing suppliers and therefore would not be held liable for the productWhen Mr [redacted] first contacted m? about this leak, he insisted that I fix itMy experience tells me, what the customer says and what is leaking are often not the same thingI responded to Mr [redacted] telling him that I would have to assess the situation, and if I was liable for the alleged leak, I would six itIf I was not liable, jwould be a billable chargeHe refused to acknowledge that anything other than my poorostallation was the reason for the leak [redacted] ; At that point, contacted the customer and told her of the impasse and told her I would come to her home to assess the problemI also told her of my busy work schedule and that would not be able to get to her house that entire week, and I would be gone on vacation the following week with my family as well I then asked the customer if she would be willing to wait until I returned to address the problemShe agreed to wait, there were no issues with the delayI have a voicemail from her that confirms the conversation with the homeowner AT no point did I ever refuse to address this problem with either the homeowner or the contractorI did not agree to fix the problem because I didn't know whether I was liable for the leak or not Another assumption, is that only called the customer, in Mr [redacted] 's words, "to save face"9/11/text message I received: the only reason I called the customer one time is because it only takes one call to make an appointmentThere's no need for repeated calls for the same issue, and the customer indicated by voicemail that the time frame was acceptable As far as not responding to Mr [redacted] 's texts, was largely due to the tone and content of his text messagesI'd received threatening, spiteful text messages long before the drain ever became an issueWhile I was still working on the job, I had trouble getting the comect part for a faucet from my supplierAs I was waiting for the special order part to arrive, Mr [redacted] would text me and threaten to call Department of Labor and/Attorney General because of my unprofessionalismHe also threatened to hire another plumber to finish the job.I reaponded by reminding him that the part was special order only and no plumber would be able to fix the plumbing without that partHis complete lack of patience and reason caused me to end my professional relationship with him o Mr [redacted] went sofar as indicating that he disbelieved I had left for vacation as he had "proof" that I hadn't left yetShort of driving by my home, I have no klea how he would have known that I arrived home late that evening around p.mbecause I was trying to finish up the jobs I had scheduled and decided to leave the next morning instead when [redacted] was threatening legal action, I retained legal representation and sent him a text, as recommended by my attorney, to direct as future correspondence toward my lawyerMr [redacted] immediately responded, "haha sounds goodI'll have the pleasure of meeting him in small claims courtYour measly $is going to cost you an arm and a leg"Clearly, this is more of a vendetta and his attempt to drag my name through the mud rather than working on a professional resolution to the situation I have been in business since 2004, have great rating on Angie's list and have also in the past, been a member of the Revdex.comI would be able to provide any number of references upon request from customer's, other plumbers, contractors and inspectors The last assumption Mr [redacted] made was I didn't want to resolve the problemIn a sense, he is correct,because I refuse to be hresponsible for an inferior product that I didn't purchase and in fact tried to warn him of the possibilities of using that particular productThe industry standard for installing parts that were not provided by the plumber does not include any warrantyMr [redacted] made it very clear, that regardless of what the reason was for the falling drainI would not be compensatedI chose to contact the customer anyway, and was planning on going there to make sure her drain was taken care of Mr [redacted] mentioned that the drain was leaking since it was installed and I'd be liable for damagesIf this drain did in fact leak due to a faulty installation, it would be immediately apparent by dripping into the basement laundry roomHowever, no one mentioned anything about a leak for almost months after the drain was installed and in useThe typical customer reaction is to immediately call the contractor at the first sign of a leakI find it quite suspicious that Mr [redacted] is so certain of the time table of this leakYet, nothing was mentioned or indicated about the leakAs well, I was at the job site at least three times after the drain was put to use and thers was no visible indication or mention of a leak by the homeowner Clearly, Mr [redacted] refuses to acknowledge the inherent problems with his drainBut it does not assume I am liable for the problem Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 17, 2015/10/29) */ I have reviewed Jims rebuttal and disagree with most of itFirst off, Jim never spoke a word to me stating any of these plumbing parts were badEvery part we used, Jim brought with him or they came with the bathtubIf Jim didn't like the bathtub we were installing, He shouldn't have done the workThe bathtub we purchased was a $5,Hydro-systems air soaking tub, made from a year old top of line company, purchased through Ferguson, Jim's everyday Supply warehouse and being this is a handicapped accessible home, this particular tub was picked out and approved of by the State of Minnesota, Anoka County and approved by the ADAWith all that being said.....that's all irrelevant because the leaking is not because a faulty partIt was because Jim only hand tightened the overflow gasket during installationThe tub leaked only on a few occasions, because their water level in the tub only reached the height of the overflow a few times during bathsOther times the water level was lower, so it didn't leakBen Franklin Plumbing, who I hired to fix because of Jims refusal, is one of Minnesota's largest plumbing companies and very respectedTheir diagnosis, as well as mine is this leaking is due to faulty workmanship...not a faulty partThis tub has not leaked since Ben Franklin tightened itI gave Jim ample amount of chances to fix this mistake and he chose to ignore all communication until my complaint with the Revdex.comIf Jim had any concern or excuses about this tub/leak, he should've contacted me within the 30+ days I gave him before I contacted the Revdex.comMyself, as well as Jim, have a legal obligation to warranty our work per MN Statute 327AI will give Jim Morrison one last chance to pay me the $backchargeIf I don't receive a check by November 15th, I will contact the Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry and Take him to conciliation courtThank you Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 19, 2015/11/08) */ So many inaccuracies I never said that I had talked with Mr [redacted] about the risks of this drainMy previous rebuttal states that I wanted to talk to him about it, but [redacted] immediately ended the conversation after one comment- I'm not surprised that he doesn't remember it I had already called the customer and we agreed that I would go to the house and look at the problem after I had returned from the DellsI don't know how that can be construed as a refusal to look at the problem [redacted] went so far as to accuse me of lying about when I left town (to avoid dealing with the problem?) I don't know how he could possibly know how when I was out of town, considering the fact that I never told him those dates in the first placeThe only time I told him I was out of town when I was home was the night of July 14- the plan was for me to leave after work that evening, but after returning home from work at pm, I made the last-minute decision to leave the next morning insteadAbout 9:that night, I received a barrage of texts from [redacted] , demanding that I address the problemEvidently the homeowner never told [redacted] that we had agreed to wait until I returned to the Twin CitiesKnowing that I would either be sleeping or driving that night, I told him I was out of townI received a text the following week from [redacted] , with the retort "and don't give me none of that out of town (bs)- I have proof that you were here", etcThe only logical way I can see that he would have gotten any proof that I was still in town is if he had driven by my house later that night, spying on me like a jilted lover stalking his exIf that's the case, that's quite creepy "The drain was only hand tightened." There is no way Mr [redacted] , BFP, or anyone else can make this sort of assertion simply by looking at this drainThere is no way for any technician to know what the previous technician did to the drain, since they were not there to witness the processThe only legitimate diagnosis the technician can make is that the drain is loose- any other diagnosis is speculation I did not provide "everything but the tub" for this job, as [redacted] claimsMy purchase record at Ferguson Supply will show that I have never purchased this type of a drain assemblyJD [redacted] 's account, however, will reflect a purchase of this type of drain, at the same time the tub was purchasedIn fact, JD [redacted] provided the toilet, the sink, the cabinet hardware, and all the faucets except the transfer valve, which was added after the job was started(Incidentally, since I had provided this transfer valve, I did honor the warranty on this faucet when it failed, yet [redacted] was still upset with me!)This inaccuracy is significant, considering the fact that, if I did not provide this drain assembly, MN statute 327Astates my liability of this item does not extend to this,drain, including the installation: The liability of the vendor or the home improvement contractor under sections 327Ato 327Ais limited to the specific items set forth in sections 327Ato 327Aand does not extend to the following: (a) loss or damage not reported by the vendee or the owner to the vendor or the home improvement contractor in writing within six months after the vendee or the owner discovers or should have discovered the loss or damage, unless the vendee or owner establishes that the vendor or home improvement contractor had actual notice of the loss or damage; (b) loss or damage caused by defects in design, installation, or materials which the vendee or the owner supplied, installed, or directed to be installed MN Statute 327A For [redacted] to suggest that I should have walked away from the job if I didn't like the product is a ridiculous notionI was not hired as a consultant for the design of the bathroomFrom what I can tell, the only reason I was hired for this job was that I was able to obtain a plumbing permitIt is a safe bet that [redacted] has also installed products that he thought were inferior or difficult to work with, and I would not stay in business if I handled these type of situations by quitting the job The only indication that I ever gave Mr [redacted] that I was not going to repair the leak was when I asked him who was going to pay the service charge for the work [redacted] bristled at the very notion of a service charge, insisting that this was my responsibility, and he would not pay any service charge of any sortHowever, in light of statute 327A.03, I was entirely within my rights to not only request, but expect payment for any further work on this drainTruth be told, if Mr [redacted] had been able to control his,temper, and had demonstrated even a bit of patience, I might have gotten to the house and simply fixed the problem or, at worst, submitted an invoice of about half the amount of the BFP invoiceAs it is, however, I see no legal or ethical reason to reimburse Mr [redacted] for this invoice, and it will be up to [redacted] to prove otherwise in a court of law

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 10, 2015/10/13) */
[redacted]response has been scanned in and converted to text below (original document is available using the online complaint system).
To Whom It May Concern
It appears to me that many of these allegations stem from assumptions by Mr. [redacted]. The...

first being that only reason this drain would leak is because of a poor installation. As a plumber, I had a strong indication that the drain he provided was going to be a problem because of the quality of his materials, which consisted of a schedule 40 union. Any experienced plumber knows that trying to force two plastic pieces together by applying tension is bound to cause problems - either the fittings are going to crack or the pressure from the wrench will force the sittings to be misshapen, causing them not to turn properly. Also, the natural expansion/contraction qualities of Sch, 40 pipe will most commonly be manifested at a mechanical joint such as a union. This is the same concept used by auto mechanics to loosen a rusty bolt from an engine block.
I tried towam Mr. [redacted] of these drawbacks the first times became aware and saw these drains on the job site. He immediately dismissed my concerns, saying something to the effect of, "this is the drain I have, and this is the one we're installing", and refused to listen to any more about it.
Another assumption, if it leaks the plumber must six it on his dime. Generally I would agree with this statement, howeverthere are always exceptions. The main exception in this case is, the drain assembly was not provided by me or my professional plumbing suppliers and therefore would not be held liable for the product. When Mr. [redacted] first contacted m? about this leak, he insisted that I fix it. My experience tells me, what the customer says and what is leaking are often not the same thing. I responded to Mr. [redacted] telling him that I would have to assess the situation, and if I was liable for the alleged leak, I would six it. If I was not liable, jwould be a billable charge. He refused to acknowledge that anything other than my poorostallation was the reason for the leak. .. *
. . . ; At that point, contacted the customer and told her of the impasse and told her I would come to her home to assess the problem. I also told her of my busy work schedule and that would not be able to get to her house that entire week, and I would be gone on vacation the following week with my family as well.
I then asked the customer if she would be willing to wait until I returned to address the problem. She agreed to wait, there were no issues with the delay. I have a voicemail from her that confirms the conversation with the homeowner.
AT no point did I ever refuse to address this problem with either the homeowner or the contractor. I did not agree to fix the problem because I didn't know whether I was liable for the leak or not.
Another assumption, is that only called the customer, in Mr. [redacted]'s words, "to save face". 9/11/15 text message I received: the only reason I called the customer one time is because it
only takes one call to make an appointment. There's no need for repeated calls for the same issue, and the customer indicated by voicemail that the time frame was acceptable.
As far as not responding to Mr. [redacted]'s texts, was largely due to the tone and content of his text messages. I'd received threatening, spiteful text messages long before the drain ever became an issue. While I was still working on the job, I had trouble getting the comect part for a faucet from my supplier. As I was waiting for the special order part to arrive, Mr. [redacted] would text me and threaten to call Department of Labor and/Attorney General because of my unprofessionalism. He also threatened to hire another plumber to finish the job.I reaponded by reminding him that the part was special order only and no plumber would be able to fix the plumbing without that part. His complete lack of patience and reason caused me to end my professional relationship with him.
o Mr. [redacted] went sofar as indicating that he disbelieved I had left for vacation as he had "proof" that I hadn't left yet. Short of driving by my home, I have no klea how he would have known that I arrived home late that evening around 8 p.m. because I was trying to finish up the jobs I had scheduled and decided to leave the next morning instead.
when [redacted] was threatening legal action, I retained legal representation and sent him a text, as recommended by my attorney, to direct as future correspondence toward my lawyer. Mr. [redacted] immediately responded, "haha sounds good. I'll have the pleasure of meeting him in small claims court. Your measly $232 is going to cost you an arm and a leg". Clearly, this is more of a vendetta and his attempt to drag my name through the mud rather than working on a professional resolution to the situation.
I have been in business since 2004, have great rating on Angie's list and have also in the past, been a member of the Revdex.com. I would be able to provide any number of references upon request from customer's, other plumbers, contractors and inspectors.
The last assumption Mr. [redacted] made was I didn't want to resolve the problem. In a sense, he is correct,because I refuse to be hresponsible for an inferior product that I didn't purchase and in fact tried to warn him of the possibilities of using that particular product. The industry standard for installing parts that were not provided by the plumber does not include any warranty. Mr. [redacted] made it very clear, that regardless of what the reason was for the falling drain. I would not be compensated. I chose to contact the customer anyway, and was planning on going there to make sure her drain was taken care of.
Mr. [redacted] mentioned that the drain was leaking since it was installed and I'd be liable for damages. If this drain did in fact leak due to a faulty installation, it would be immediately apparent by dripping into the basement laundry room. However, no one mentioned anything about a leak for almost 5 months after the drain was installed and in use. The typical customer reaction is to immediately call the contractor at the first sign of a leak. I find it quite suspicious that Mr. [redacted] is so certain of the time table of this leak. Yet, nothing was mentioned or
indicated about the leak. As well, I was at the job site at least three times after the drain was put to use and thers was no visible indication or mention of a leak by the homeowner.
Clearly, Mr. [redacted] refuses to acknowledge the inherent problems with his drain. But it does not assume I am liable for the problem.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 17, 2015/10/29) */
I have reviewed Jims rebuttal and disagree with most of it. First off, Jim never spoke a word to me stating any of these plumbing parts were bad. Every part we used, Jim brought with him or they came with the bathtub. If Jim didn't like the bathtub we were installing, He shouldn't have done the work. The bathtub we purchased was a $5,000 Hydro-systems air soaking tub, made from a 40 year old top of line company, purchased through Ferguson, Jim's everyday Supply warehouse and being this is a handicapped accessible home, this particular tub was picked out and approved of by the State of Minnesota, Anoka County and approved by the ADA. With all that being said.....that's all irrelevant because the leaking is not because a faulty part. It was because Jim only hand tightened the overflow gasket during installation. The tub leaked only on a few occasions, because their water level in the tub only reached the height of the overflow a few times during baths. Other times the water level was lower, so it didn't leak. Ben Franklin Plumbing, who I hired to fix because of Jims refusal, is one of Minnesota's largest plumbing companies and very respected. Their diagnosis, as well as mine is this leaking is due to faulty workmanship...not a faulty part. This tub has not leaked since Ben Franklin tightened it. I gave Jim ample amount of chances to fix this mistake and he chose to ignore all communication until my complaint with the Revdex.com. If Jim had any concern or excuses about this tub/leak, he should've contacted me within the 30+ days I gave him before I contacted the Revdex.com. Myself, as well as Jim, have a legal obligation to warranty our work per MN Statute 327A.02. I will give Jim Morrison one last chance to pay me the $232 backcharge. If I don't receive a check by November 15th, I will contact the Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry and Take him to conciliation court. Thank you.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 19, 2015/11/08) */
So many inaccuracies...
I never said that I had talked with Mr. [redacted] about the risks of this drain. My previous rebuttal states that I wanted to talk to him about it, but [redacted] immediately ended the conversation after one comment- I'm not surprised that he doesn't remember it.
I had already called the customer and we agreed that I would go to the house and look at the problem after I had returned from the Dells. I don't know how that can be construed as a refusal to look at the problem. [redacted] went so far as to accuse me of lying about when I left town (to avoid dealing with the problem?) I don't know how he could possibly know how when I was out of town, considering the fact that I never told him those dates in the first place. The only time I told him I was out of town when I was home was the night of July 14- the plan was for me to leave after work that evening, but after returning home from work at 8 pm, I made the last-minute decision to leave the next morning instead. About 9:30 that night, I received a barrage of texts from [redacted], demanding that I address the problem. Evidently the homeowner never told [redacted] that we had agreed to wait until I returned to the Twin Cities. Knowing that I would either be sleeping or driving that night, I told him I was out of town. I received a text the following week from [redacted], with the retort "and don't give me none of that out of town (bs)- I have proof that you were here", etc. The only logical way I can see that he would have gotten any proof that I was still in town is if he had driven by my house later that night, spying on me like a jilted lover stalking his ex. If that's the case, that's quite creepy.
"The drain was only hand tightened." There is no way Mr. [redacted], BFP, or anyone else can make this sort of assertion simply by looking at this drain. There is no way for any technician to know what the previous technician did to the drain, since they were not there to witness the process. The only legitimate diagnosis the technician can make is that the drain is loose- any other diagnosis is speculation.
I did not provide "everything but the tub" for this job, as [redacted] claims. My purchase record at Ferguson Supply will show that I have never purchased this type of a drain assembly. JD [redacted]'s account, however, will reflect a purchase of this type of drain, at the same time the tub was purchased. In fact, JD[redacted] provided the toilet, the sink, the cabinet hardware, and all the faucets except the transfer valve, which was added after the job was started. (Incidentally, since I had provided this transfer valve, I did honor the warranty on this faucet when it failed, yet [redacted] was still upset with me!). This inaccuracy is significant, considering the fact that, if I did not provide this drain assembly, MN statute 327A.03 states my liability of this item does not extend to this,drain, including the installation:
The liability of the vendor or the home improvement contractor under sections 327A.01 to 327A.07 is limited to the specific items set forth in sections 327A.01 to 327A.07 and does not extend to the following:
(a) loss or damage not reported by the vendee or the owner to the vendor or the home improvement contractor in writing within six months after the vendee or the owner discovers or should have discovered the loss or damage, unless the vendee or owner establishes that the vendor or home improvement contractor had actual notice of the loss or damage;
(b) loss or damage caused by defects in design, installation, or materials which the vendee or the owner supplied, installed, or directed to be installed.
MN Statute 327A.03

For [redacted] to suggest that I should have walked away from the job if I didn't like the product is a ridiculous notion. I was not hired as a consultant for the design of the bathroom. From what I can tell, the only reason I was hired for this job was that I was able to obtain a plumbing permit. It is a safe bet that [redacted] has also installed products that he thought were inferior or difficult to work with, and I would not stay in business if I handled these type of situations by quitting the job.
The only indication that I ever gave Mr. [redacted] that I was not going to repair the leak was when I asked him who was going to pay the service charge for the work. [redacted] bristled at the very notion of a service charge, insisting that this was my responsibility, and he would not pay any service charge of any sort. However, in light of statute 327A.03, I was entirely within my rights to not only request, but expect payment for any further work on this drain. Truth be told, if Mr. [redacted] had been able to control his,temper, and had demonstrated even a bit of patience, I might have gotten to the house and simply fixed the problem or, at worst, submitted an invoice of about half the amount of the BFP invoice. As it is, however, I see no legal or ethical reason to reimburse Mr. [redacted] for this invoice, and it will be up to [redacted] to prove otherwise in a court of law.