Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/12/02) */
[redacted]response has been scanned in and converted to text below (original document is available using the online complaint system).
Hi [redacted], this is in response to the complaint received by the Revdex.com November 20", 2015 from...
[redacted]. Case [redacted]
I would like to start by sharing that JLM has been in business for 42 years and this is to my knowledge the first ever complaint to the Revdex.com. We complete between 190 and 235 projects annually and take customer service very seriously. We are a company that works on referrals from past CuStomerS.
The project, JLM was contracted to remove an existing deck and front walk and install a paver patio and walk in their place. The contract also had an allowance for planting that was to be discussed prior to installing.
We had a few additional items added by Mr. [redacted]. We installed an Egress window well, window and restored the finishes in the basement. We installed 97' additional edging, removed rock on the side of the house, and installed 7 additional steppers and two additional C.Y.'s mulch that Mr. [redacted] requested.
This sections is to help you understand what occurred prior to the complaint.
During the project Mr. [redacted] had made numerous comments on the process and one employee that he felt was not doing his job. He made it clear that the foreman on the job was a great worker with the knowledge to complete the work. I explained to Mr. [redacted] that he was a new employee and there is always a period of time to get acclimated to the job. I also told Mr. [redacted] that his project was a lump sum project so this individuals pace would be my cost not his. Unfortunately Mr. [redacted] couldn't get past it and talked to me, my production supervisor and our designer continually. I feel this was the start of his dissatisfaction with JLM.
In the spring following the project completion we received a call that we had a settlement issue on the back patio and that he would like it repaired. We sent a crew out to do this work. Mr. [redacted] was very happy with the repair, he even sent a note to me on how great the second crew was and wished they had done the entire project. Still not happy with the one individual on the first crew.
This brings us to the issues that Mr. [redacted] is complaining about.
First let discuss the planting issue. Our plant designer met with Mr. [redacted] and his wife to discuss the plants that were to be installed. After that meeting he returned to our office and completed the plan. He then returned to the [redacted]'s and went over the plan and plant species with them and got a signed installation order. The planting was installed without incident and the [redacted]'s seemed to be very happy with the finished product.
Minnesota had a phenomenal growing season this year and every plant we installed exceeded it growth expectation. We had installed daylilies by the walk and they grew fantastic but because they were new plants with small root systems they laid over part way through the summer. I told Mr. [redacted] that this was a result of the two conditions and that it would not happen in future years. Mr. [redacted] had another individual (one we referred to him for bed maintenance) come out to work on the beds. He asked this person if he thought that they were the right plants. This person suggested a different plant for Mr. [redacted] knowing that he was not happy with the Daylilies. At no point did this individual state that they were the wrong plants. He has worked in the industry for 30 years and installed thousands of Daylilies in front foundation designs.
It's our opinion that the plant we installed where appropriate. Three of the houses on Mr. [redacted] cul-desac have Daylilies by the front walks. Planting is subjective and what one person thinks looks good is not always what another may. We install what was agreed upon.
The second issue is the 6" limestone base, JLM install 6" of limestone under all of its paver projects. We extend the base past the edge of the paver 6" to 12" depending on the use. The area Mr. [redacted] is questioning is not under the pavers and is actually more than 6" past the edge. I tried to explain this him but he wouldn't listen. I simply ended this discussion by stating that JLM warranties it's workmanship for 5 years So if it settles we will dig it up and check when fixing. Note that it has not settled.
The third issue is the mulch. JLM bids mulch by the C.Y. it's a very easy calculation. One C.Y. of mulch cover 100 S.F. of planting bed. During the initial project JLM install all of the mulch that was included in the original proposal. Our crew foreman called and said that we had mulched a couple areas that had not been included and that he felt he would need two additional C.Y. of mulch. I approved the mulch and covered the cost. The next spring Mr. [redacted] asked if we would install more mulch when we came out to fix the settlement in the patio. We said yes and had the crew bring the mulch. When the crew was doing the work Mr. [redacted] ask one of the crew members if he would be billed for the mulch. How would the crew member know how to answer that? Mr. [redacted] state that he was told it would be free. It was not free, we billed the mulch as the same rate as the original proposal.
The final issue is the installation of the Edging. This is a 4" tall concrete edger that is normally installed 1" out of the ground. This is very hard to do in a lawn that is not smooth. The edging Mr. [redacted] is referring to was adjusted a second time during the original project after an initial complaint. It is currently 0 to 1" out of the ground depending on the location. We try very hard to keep it level and not follow every little contour in the lawn. Like all edging in Minnesota it will move over time.
To put the issues in Context, the project we completed was just over 32 thousand and the issues he was unhappy with is $212.34. That is less than % of one percent of the job. I would have normally refunded the money to keep the customer happy but Mr. [redacted] became very unfair. He requested over $450.00 to be refunded. This was for all the work the other individual had completed along with the additional mulch he requested. At this point it is my responsibility to stand up to Mr. [redacted] for all future contractors he tries to do this to. He is a difficult person that has lost his grip on what is fair.
Timing of the complaint, JLM finished the project on 9/28/14 and I first met with Mr. [redacted] on 10/8/15 (over one year since completed) to discuss his complaints.
Mr. [redacted], I hope JLM's 42 years in business without a complaint will have some weight in your decision to validate this claim. JLM works very hard to keep its rating up on all of the contractor rating Systems.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/12/06) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
It should be noted that we paid extra for all the additional items that Mr. [redacted] talks about in his reply.
The 6" limestone base is NOT under a portion of the pavers and has not settled. If it does, I do believe that JLM will fix it.
Only a portion of the edging was fixed last fall and that was because an approximate 30 foot section was not laid down straight. This spring I leveled off much of the edging myself.
I called regarding the mulch this spring because there were bare spots with dirt showing through and other spots where the mulch was hardly present at all. I did not call for more mulch for any other reason.
Mr. [redacted] does not explain why his company did not call back after we called them about the 1st bill asking if we owed the bill for adding mulch. (The foreman of that project had stated that he thought that the new mulch was free.) When we received the 2nd bill, we called again and JLM's representative called back after checking with someone at JLM and said we did owe the bill. We then paid it - no argument.
When JLM's plant designer visited to look at the daylilies that were laying over the sidewalk and lawn, he was visibly angry. Brian [redacted] ([redacted]'s Landscaping) did agree that the plants were wrong for the area that they were planted in. He happened to be present when the JLM plant designer came to look at the daylilies. JLM's plant designer stated that he would call us back with a recommendation of new plants and whether or not JLM would pay for the replacements. He never did call as promised. [redacted]'s Landscaping did recommend other plants and we asked him to plant the new plants after we purchased them. That was completed.
Since we did not hear back from JLM, as promised, we called [redacted] and asked him to come out and discuss the problems. He did stop by and we showed him and discussed with him, what I thought were some problems. He stated that he would review the type of daylilies planted and get back to us. He never did call us back. Then we filed the Revdex.com complaint.
This complaint would not have been filed if JLM had done as promised and called us back with answers regarding the issues:
1)the additional mulch that the foreman thought was free. We called regarding the first bill and did not get a response. They did call back after we called regarding the 2nd billing. When JLM said we owed it, we paid.
2) The JLM plant designer said that he would call back. He never did.
3)[redacted] stated he would call back. He never did.
We would have appreciated a response to our questions instead of being ignored and we are still open to compromise.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2015/12/15) */
Mr. [redacted]:
To recap what the issues are:
Edging:
Mr [redacted] is complaining about the edging but has not requested JLM do anything. He is just complaining. I understand this but can do nothing about it.
Limestone under pavers:
We disagree but have a warranty that Mr. [redacted] is fully aware of and believes JLM will repair the pavers if there is an issue. Nothing required of JLM at this time.
Mulch:
JLM installed all the mulch that was included in the proposal. It is sold by the Cubic Yard and JLM is not responsible for any additional mulch at Mr. [redacted]'s house as per the signed contract. There is nothing for JLM to resolve on this issue. Next year Mr. [redacted] will need more mulch and if he requests it from JLM it will also be billed at the same rate as all previous mulch.
Planting:
Mr. [redacted] signed off on the plants that were installed at his house. JLM fulfilled its contracted requirement and Mr. [redacted] was charged $212.34 for the Daylilies. If Mr. [redacted] returns the plants JLM will refund the money.
Return calls:
We received no less than 25 calls from Mr. [redacted] at the office during the project installation and the year following. Call are answer by our office staff if it was during business hours. Mr. [redacted] States that he did not get a response on many of the calls. To clear this up, Mr. [redacted] lives 4 block from my house, he has my cell phone number and every time he called it stopped by that day or the following morning depending on his schedule. I was clear with Mr. [redacted] on where I stood on the issues. After each meeting if he wasn't happy with my response he would then call the office and try to get a different response. These call were not returned.
Final words from [redacted]:
Mr. [redacted] did not just ask if JLM would refund the money for the plants. He added additional items to the list he is currently asking for. This is extortion and I will not tolerate it. If this effects our Revdex.com rating I will have no alternative but to seek legal counsel to restore our rating.
Thanks again for your time on this issue.
[redacted]
Initial Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2015/12/02) */
[redacted]response has been scanned in and converted to text below (original document is available using the online complaint system).
Hi [redacted], this is in response to the complaint received by the Revdex.com November 20", 2015 from...
[redacted]. Case [redacted]
I would like to start by sharing that JLM has been in business for 42 years and this is to my knowledge the first ever complaint to the Revdex.com. We complete between 190 and 235 projects annually and take customer service very seriously. We are a company that works on referrals from past CuStomerS.
The project, JLM was contracted to remove an existing deck and front walk and install a paver patio and walk in their place. The contract also had an allowance for planting that was to be discussed prior to installing.
We had a few additional items added by Mr. [redacted]. We installed an Egress window well, window and restored the finishes in the basement. We installed 97' additional edging, removed rock on the side of the house, and installed 7 additional steppers and two additional C.Y.'s mulch that Mr. [redacted] requested.
This sections is to help you understand what occurred prior to the complaint.
During the project Mr. [redacted] had made numerous comments on the process and one employee that he felt was not doing his job. He made it clear that the foreman on the job was a great worker with the knowledge to complete the work. I explained to Mr. [redacted] that he was a new employee and there is always a period of time to get acclimated to the job. I also told Mr. [redacted] that his project was a lump sum project so this individuals pace would be my cost not his. Unfortunately Mr. [redacted] couldn't get past it and talked to me, my production supervisor and our designer continually. I feel this was the start of his dissatisfaction with JLM.
In the spring following the project completion we received a call that we had a settlement issue on the back patio and that he would like it repaired. We sent a crew out to do this work. Mr. [redacted] was very happy with the repair, he even sent a note to me on how great the second crew was and wished they had done the entire project. Still not happy with the one individual on the first crew.
This brings us to the issues that Mr. [redacted] is complaining about.
First let discuss the planting issue. Our plant designer met with Mr. [redacted] and his wife to discuss the plants that were to be installed. After that meeting he returned to our office and completed the plan. He then returned to the [redacted]'s and went over the plan and plant species with them and got a signed installation order. The planting was installed without incident and the [redacted]'s seemed to be very happy with the finished product.
Minnesota had a phenomenal growing season this year and every plant we installed exceeded it growth expectation. We had installed daylilies by the walk and they grew fantastic but because they were new plants with small root systems they laid over part way through the summer. I told Mr. [redacted] that this was a result of the two conditions and that it would not happen in future years. Mr. [redacted] had another individual (one we referred to him for bed maintenance) come out to work on the beds. He asked this person if he thought that they were the right plants. This person suggested a different plant for Mr. [redacted] knowing that he was not happy with the Daylilies. At no point did this individual state that they were the wrong plants. He has worked in the industry for 30 years and installed thousands of Daylilies in front foundation designs.
It's our opinion that the plant we installed where appropriate. Three of the houses on Mr. [redacted] cul-desac have Daylilies by the front walks. Planting is subjective and what one person thinks looks good is not always what another may. We install what was agreed upon.
The second issue is the 6" limestone base, JLM install 6" of limestone under all of its paver projects. We extend the base past the edge of the paver 6" to 12" depending on the use. The area Mr. [redacted] is questioning is not under the pavers and is actually more than 6" past the edge. I tried to explain this him but he wouldn't listen. I simply ended this discussion by stating that JLM warranties it's workmanship for 5 years So if it settles we will dig it up and check when fixing. Note that it has not settled.
The third issue is the mulch. JLM bids mulch by the C.Y. it's a very easy calculation. One C.Y. of mulch cover 100 S.F. of planting bed. During the initial project JLM install all of the mulch that was included in the original proposal. Our crew foreman called and said that we had mulched a couple areas that had not been included and that he felt he would need two additional C.Y. of mulch. I approved the mulch and covered the cost. The next spring Mr. [redacted] asked if we would install more mulch when we came out to fix the settlement in the patio. We said yes and had the crew bring the mulch. When the crew was doing the work Mr. [redacted] ask one of the crew members if he would be billed for the mulch. How would the crew member know how to answer that? Mr. [redacted] state that he was told it would be free. It was not free, we billed the mulch as the same rate as the original proposal.
The final issue is the installation of the Edging. This is a 4" tall concrete edger that is normally installed 1" out of the ground. This is very hard to do in a lawn that is not smooth. The edging Mr. [redacted] is referring to was adjusted a second time during the original project after an initial complaint. It is currently 0 to 1" out of the ground depending on the location. We try very hard to keep it level and not follow every little contour in the lawn. Like all edging in Minnesota it will move over time.
To put the issues in Context, the project we completed was just over 32 thousand and the issues he was unhappy with is $212.34. That is less than % of one percent of the job. I would have normally refunded the money to keep the customer happy but Mr. [redacted] became very unfair. He requested over $450.00 to be refunded. This was for all the work the other individual had completed along with the additional mulch he requested. At this point it is my responsibility to stand up to Mr. [redacted] for all future contractors he tries to do this to. He is a difficult person that has lost his grip on what is fair.
Timing of the complaint, JLM finished the project on 9/28/14 and I first met with Mr. [redacted] on 10/8/15 (over one year since completed) to discuss his complaints.
Mr. [redacted], I hope JLM's 42 years in business without a complaint will have some weight in your decision to validate this claim. JLM works very hard to keep its rating up on all of the contractor rating Systems.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 7, 2015/12/06) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
It should be noted that we paid extra for all the additional items that Mr. [redacted] talks about in his reply.
The 6" limestone base is NOT under a portion of the pavers and has not settled. If it does, I do believe that JLM will fix it.
Only a portion of the edging was fixed last fall and that was because an approximate 30 foot section was not laid down straight. This spring I leveled off much of the edging myself.
I called regarding the mulch this spring because there were bare spots with dirt showing through and other spots where the mulch was hardly present at all. I did not call for more mulch for any other reason.
Mr. [redacted] does not explain why his company did not call back after we called them about the 1st bill asking if we owed the bill for adding mulch. (The foreman of that project had stated that he thought that the new mulch was free.) When we received the 2nd bill, we called again and JLM's representative called back after checking with someone at JLM and said we did owe the bill. We then paid it - no argument.
When JLM's plant designer visited to look at the daylilies that were laying over the sidewalk and lawn, he was visibly angry. Brian [redacted] ([redacted]'s Landscaping) did agree that the plants were wrong for the area that they were planted in. He happened to be present when the JLM plant designer came to look at the daylilies. JLM's plant designer stated that he would call us back with a recommendation of new plants and whether or not JLM would pay for the replacements. He never did call as promised. [redacted]'s Landscaping did recommend other plants and we asked him to plant the new plants after we purchased them. That was completed.
Since we did not hear back from JLM, as promised, we called [redacted] and asked him to come out and discuss the problems. He did stop by and we showed him and discussed with him, what I thought were some problems. He stated that he would review the type of daylilies planted and get back to us. He never did call us back. Then we filed the Revdex.com complaint.
This complaint would not have been filed if JLM had done as promised and called us back with answers regarding the issues:
1)the additional mulch that the foreman thought was free. We called regarding the first bill and did not get a response. They did call back after we called regarding the 2nd billing. When JLM said we owed it, we paid.
2) The JLM plant designer said that he would call back. He never did.
3)[redacted] stated he would call back. He never did.
We would have appreciated a response to our questions instead of being ignored and we are still open to compromise.
Final Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2015/12/15) */
Mr. [redacted]:
To recap what the issues are:
Edging:
Mr [redacted] is complaining about the edging but has not requested JLM do anything. He is just complaining. I understand this but can do nothing about it.
Limestone under pavers:
We disagree but have a warranty that Mr. [redacted] is fully aware of and believes JLM will repair the pavers if there is an issue. Nothing required of JLM at this time.
Mulch:
JLM installed all the mulch that was included in the proposal. It is sold by the Cubic Yard and JLM is not responsible for any additional mulch at Mr. [redacted]'s house as per the signed contract. There is nothing for JLM to resolve on this issue. Next year Mr. [redacted] will need more mulch and if he requests it from JLM it will also be billed at the same rate as all previous mulch.
Planting:
Mr. [redacted] signed off on the plants that were installed at his house. JLM fulfilled its contracted requirement and Mr. [redacted] was charged $212.34 for the Daylilies. If Mr. [redacted] returns the plants JLM will refund the money.
Return calls:
We received no less than 25 calls from Mr. [redacted] at the office during the project installation and the year following. Call are answer by our office staff if it was during business hours. Mr. [redacted] States that he did not get a response on many of the calls. To clear this up, Mr. [redacted] lives 4 block from my house, he has my cell phone number and every time he called it stopped by that day or the following morning depending on his schedule. I was clear with Mr. [redacted] on where I stood on the issues. After each meeting if he wasn't happy with my response he would then call the office and try to get a different response. These call were not returned.
Final words from [redacted]:
Mr. [redacted] did not just ask if JLM would refund the money for the plants. He added additional items to the list he is currently asking for. This is extortion and I will not tolerate it. If this effects our Revdex.com rating I will have no alternative but to seek legal counsel to restore our rating.
Thanks again for your time on this issue.
[redacted]