Johnny's Auto & Marine Electric Service

Paid $762.68 for a reapir that was not what was promisedI dropped off my 2002 Buick rendevous to Johnnys electric on 12/29/14 Telling them the fuel guage was not working that it would go from full to empty and the check engine was on & also the rear taillights where cracked to let me know how much to fix them. I had mad an appointment a week prior.I have had work done there before and I know they are busy. On 12/30 and 12/31 I made calls about there car because My parents needed to head back to Michigan on 1/3/15 [redacted] told me a tech was assigned and they where working on it On 1/2/15 around 1:00 in the afternoon [redacted] called me and Told me I was at around $400 for Repair For the fuel Gauge and that the Fuel tank needed to be dropped there was moisture and more wiring needed to be done and I would be into it for over $700 I authorized the work to be done. He also to me the taillights where a complete set from the dealers and over $600 I told him I was more concerned about the fuel reading than taillights. We picked the car up 1/2/15 after them having it the entire week paid in full and thanked [redacted] for the service. We tehn took the car across the street and spent $400 on new tires. It was Saturday night around 7:30 when we discovered the car was still having the same problem [redacted] was closed till Monday and my parents needed to get back to Michigan over 720 mile drive so they left on the way back to Michigan they noticed more electrical problems in addition to the Fuel Gage the cruise control was no longer working and the radio controls on the steering wheel were getting to hot to touch the car never had these issues until it went there. On the invoice provided to me it states and I quote CUSTOMER STATES CEL IS ON AND FUEL GAUGE INCORRECT REPLACE BROKEN LAMP LENS THEY CHARGED 6.8 HRS AT $95 PER HR AND NOT FIXED WHAT THEY WHERE HIRED TO FIX IN THE FIRST PLACE. I called first thing Monday morning as did my father we spoke with [redacted] he said [redacted] would call us and On 1/7/15 at 10:15am I received a call fro the owner of Johnny's Auto Electric regarding their failed fuel gage repairs made on my 2002 Buick Rendevous. Although we disagree on the description of the fuel gage problem , we both parties acknowledge that the fuel gage dose'nt work correctly. I maintain that fuel gage not working was/is the original complaint , Johnny's Auto disavows that claim , stating they were told it was ok if the gage didn't work. Why would I pay for a repair and then accept it if it didn't work? First estimate was $400 and on the day we had to leave we were called and told the scope of repair would necessitate an additional cost of $375 more.. we agreed to the addition amount and paid the bill and drove off right as the shop closed for the weekend...it didn't work when we drove away and they closed and we had to return to MI .... Johnny's Auto Electric 's proposal is for me to return the vehicle to their shop , pay additional labor (minimum 2.0 hrs @ $95.00/hr.) and pay approximately another $585-$600 for a part(fuel level sensor?)...all at my expense..I declined this because why would I drive 1400 miles and pay more money to somebody that didn't fix it correctly/completely the first time ? They were not interested in crediting us any funds in any scenario.I have a copy of the invoice upon request!!!!!!Desired SettlementI want a Complete Refund and I fell Johnnys should also pay for the damges they cuased to the vehicle while In there Possesion.Not only did they not fix what they were hired to do but they also cuased more problems The car is Over 700 miles away and not coming back they know this!!!!!!!Business Response /[redacted]/This letter is in response to our customer's concerns with the repairs just performed on his 2002 Buick Rendezvous in reference to the week the vehicle was here with us and length of repair. When this shop works on electrical repairs we do not give promise times for vehicle readiness at time of drop off and we do not promise vehicles ready until we know when they will be done, and this week was also special because we had just come off Christmas break and had a New Year's holiday on Thursday, so length of repair and or "status" was not really a problem that the customer had until he decided to dispute the work done. I talked with [redacted] the entire repair process and had not talked with [redacted] until the fuel gauge complaints were made on Monday the 5th.I, [redacted] manage the shop and did advise [redacted] that during this week I had one technician on vacation and the other tech who would be working on the GM is a specialist on GM and he did have many cars he was working on or had to do and the customer was advised of this.Tech checked vehicle over and confirmed SES light on (Service Engine Soon), same as Check Engine Light, and fuel gauge incorrect and replace rear tail light.Tech showed me that the rear tail light assembly on the driver's side was half full of water and when checking on the part, found that it was the entire rear center section lens for the entire tail gate which was over $600.00, so [redacted] said don't do that, then I kindly offered that the tech could pull the assembly out and drill hole(s) in the bottom of the assembly and then water would drain out and he replied that would be great and that he would put tape on the lens to try to keep water out. [redacted] on the only day I talked with him, accused us of many mistakes in derogatory terms, said we were suppose to tape the tail light and didn't fix that either; I politely explained that the son was suppose to do that. [redacted] said "we butched the harness", meaning hacked up the wires; and he said we should have put factory connectors back in place. I kindly replied that I offered that exactly to his son, but advised that the factory does not sell those connectors and it would have to be the entire harness or we would have to go out to the salvage yard and cut used ones out of a salvaged vehicle and then splice into the vehicle and would be happy to do so, and look for a rear lamp assembly also while in the salvage yard, but the tech would charge for this. Or we could cut out the plugs that had water in them from an interior water leak and crimp wires together wire for wire, crimp and heat shrink which would make permanent connections and be waterproof; the son decided for this repair and the father, once he heard this explanation from me, agreed.To try to shorten this letter I will say that both the son and the father called Monday, the 5th and simply stated incorrectly and in closed ended statements that the vehicle was not fixed and they wanted their money back or they would call a lawyer and contact the Revdex.com. I kindly stated that wasn't necessary and wasn't the quickest way to a resolution. The father stated the gas gauge was jumping around just like it had been and that was the most important thing he wanted repaired. The son was told about the fuel gauge operation before the vehicle left here and before we said it was ready, as we stepped through all the repairs done, that the gas gauge, on the first test drive after repairing all wiring which had to be repaired first because it was grounds and 5 volt reference wires for the operation of the fuel gauge, and when the car came in the fuel gauge would read empty, then 3/4 full then 1/4, and so on, every time you turned the key on and back off and the gauge would read different each time. When the tech finished the first repairs, the gauge went to about 33% and stayed there no matter how many times you turned the key on and it was not until the test drive that it started dancing around and set a pending code, which is when the son was advised of what it was doing and that it might turn the check engine light back on, and he would need a new sending unit for the fuel tank. The son stated the fuel gauge had been like that and never caused a problem, so he said they would just keep gas in it.We do not hack wiring, we repair it better than any one place I have seen and I explained the repair process to both father and son and each step was understood. The father states fuel gauge isn't working and check engine light on. The fuel gauge is working it just bounces around because it needs a fuel sending unit. He states ckeck engine light on; that could be for a totally different code than he had ever had and we advised the son.Initial codes were photographed by the technician, which most of us do because of liability problems like this that pop up every once in a while; and those codes were P0107, P0446, P1107, P1189, P1635, U1301 & U1301. Current code should be P0463. Son said fuel level not important, father says was the most important item supposed to be repaired; miscommunication between father and son.[redacted] says "we charged him all that money and did not fix the fuel sensor and he told [redacted] was his main concern". That just isn't true. [redacted] nor [redacted] ever said that until after all the agreed repairs were completed and [redacted] was back up north at home where he said he would not come back for us to try to help rectify this concern.They state we broke the cruise control because we "butched that harness". The harness repaired has no connection with the cruise or steering wheel controls. He says radio controls are getting hot on the steering wheel now; there is no way to make the bulbs in the steering wheel glow brighter or get hotter other than the alternator over charging, thus sending more voltage to them. Many people have noticed this concern on vehicle radio faces throughout the years but it has always been normal when I have seen it, and we did no work in this area; tech was under the truck and in the rear seat area making wiring repairs and after those repairs he then had a new fault code for a fuel tank pressure sensor which he did replace also, after [redacted] was called and approved the repair, it repaired that code and the wiring repairs fixed all the other codes that were present when brought in.As far as asking for more money, that is not how it was offered and the owner called [redacted] back, not myself, but what the owner was trying to convey to [redacted] was in reference to [redacted] not wanting to be satisfied, but only being satisfied with getting his money back; the owner was doing what I told [redacted] I would do, which was to get him a quote on the replacement of the fuel pump assembly, sender and pump, and discounting the labor and parts, which would save him money, or offer to buy the parts under our name where he lives and give him our discount, which would be considerate and help compensate him for other needed repairs which we told his son about while we still had the vehicle inside our shop. We did not "ignore" [redacted]'s request for money back. We called him, as we stated we would, and are trying to work with him, and still are; but the work we did was good and excellent quality, and did fix every problem we were aware of and repaired every code the vehicle had when dropped off. The repair for this bouncing fuel gauge concern was declined by [redacted]The fuel gauge could not operate correctly with all the wires that were corroded, which is why those repairs were made first and a part not just replaced as shops might do, because the SES light was on due to the codes repaired, not for the fuel sender.[redacted] and [redacted] were not on the same page and they are saying we are the fault for that? [redacted] says the Check Engine Light is on and I believe that [redacted] said it is not on. We never knew the gauge was bouncing around until we test drove the vehicle after the repairs were made, and [redacted] specifically said he knew about that and it was ok to leave it that way. We cannot help if we are not given the opportunity to. I realize distance is an issue, but the repairs made were done well and correctly, and that does not warrant a refund, but services rendered, and being considerate, we are willing to do the additional work needed for only 1 hour labor and the part at our cost. That's a savings of about $300.00 and I don't think you'll find another reputable business that will do it for that.Consumer Response /[redacted],You have it all twisted it clearly states why you where hired to look at the car in the first place. Fuel Gauge was erratic. the PART ITS SELF COSTS $142 YOU CAN FIND IT ONLINE 2 other shops quoted the job both Revdex.com accredited business mind you and neither was over $200 in labor you guys went and made a HACK JOB of the wiring the Cruise control no longer works and the controls on the steering wheel are hot BOTH electrical issues that never where a problem until the vehicle was in your shop. The car is in Michigan and not coming back if it did I would take it to one of the other accredited business that where not charging more than $200 in LABOR and $172 for the part these things are on the internet I will provide a link for you to go check out for your self and I ask you the question when the fuel tank was dropped why would you not replace the part that needs replacing stop hiding behind all you codes and look at the facts http://www.stockwiseauto.com/product info.php/products id/XXXXXX/fit id/XXXXX/Year/2002/Make/Buick/Model/Rendezvous?gclid=CjwKEAiA s2lBRCe1YPXxtSe-DcSJACCIh3LuTzaR XNAEV0l-qPFKCgvpQB7WWMfjQPUpF2fWqkqxoCts7w wcB FUEL LEVEL SENSOR FOR A CAR WITH AN ERRATIC FUEL GAUGE AS YOU TYPED ON YOUR ESTIMATE AND CHARGED ME ALMOST 7 HOURS LABOR @ $95 PER HOUR what ever HACK WIRE JOB YOU DID No need to Hide behind big words and codes you messed up and do not want to admit your fault it happens all the time myself my business and friends have spent A LOT of money in your shop I have never asked for a refund unless I thought it was fair because I used to think so highly of your shop you simply denying your mistakes is a bunch of [redacted] and ask us for more money and bring the car 1,500 miles round trip and claim you do the best job? I don`t think so I want my money all of it and you need to pay for all the damages caused buy YOUR SHOP!!! thanks for messing up my car and costing me more money great business ethics you have!!!!!!!Final Business Response /[redacted]/The invoice states "fuel gauge incorrect", not "erratic". There was no mention of the fuel gauge being erratic until all the needed repairs were made and the vehicle was test-driven. Only then did the tech see that it was erratic, returned to the shop and scanned the computer again and found code P0463 for fuel tank level sensor fault. [redacted] was called and told this and that is when he said he knew about this and didn't care about it. That code was not among the five codes stored in the PCM's memory when the tech first scanned the computer. As the invoice states, the manifold air pressure (MAP) and fuel tank pressure voltages, not fuel level sensor, were skewed and erratic, and there was no 5-volt reference from the "fuel tank pressure" sensor. Tracing the harness to the problem being water standing in the floorboard harness connector, and the connections inside that connector were badly corroded, he found that corrosion had created high resistance through the connections. That high resistance had to be corrected before he could continue testing. After repairing those connections, all other voltage tests in the affected circuits were good but the 5-volt reference line was still low, requiring a new fuel tank pressure sensor to correct that reference voltage. Once the new sensor was installed, all codes were cleared and the vehicle was test-driven, and that is when the erratic gauge was first noticed by the tech and that code was set during the test-drive.To sum up, the corrosion created resistance and improper voltage drops and these repairs were necessary for the all the voltage tests to read correctly and before the failed fuel tank level sensor to be correctly diagnosed. [redacted] talked with [redacted] through all these procedures and [redacted] approved them. They were problems that had to be corrected. There was no "butching" of the harness and the work was done professionally.About the pricing for the fuel level sender, he's saying he found one online for $142.00. [redacted] quoted him for a new fuel pump assembly, not just the sensor, at cost plus one hour labor ($95.00). The book quotes the job at 1.8 hours. It's not logical to pull the fuel pump assembly and replace just the fuel level sensor. We will install customer provided parts at their request with no labor warranty, but we quote quality Napa and dealership prices for parts. Our cost for a new fuel pump assembly from Napa is $275.00 and their suggested retail is $585.00. Our cost for a new GM fuel pump is $391.63 and their suggested retail is $663.78. So his cost for us to replace the part would be $370.00 parts and labor, plus $18.56 tax on the part.Final Consumer Response /[redacted]/(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)Incorrect erratic in simpler terms BROKEN and that is why I brought you the car. As I figured there is no mention of the other damages made to the vehicle CRUISE CONTROL NO LONGER WORKS AND THE STEERING WHEEL CONTROLS ALL WORKED FINE UNTIL IT WENT TO YOUR SHOP!!!! Why would I pay more for work you did not correct the first time? You agree simply asking for more money after I paid you $762.68 I [redacted] did not say it was acceptable for the fuel gauge not to be working we all know gas gauges are supposed to go from full to empty [redacted] you add gas and as the car is driven the reading needs to be accurate it is why you where hired in the first place. You went through my car rewired whatever your claiming and not only is the fuel gauge still not working but there are more issues and you want even more money I am growing tired of this Either refund my money all of it man up to your mistakes and give me my money back I do not trust you with my car anymore First you asked my dad for an additional $800 to make it right now your asking $370.00 parts and labor plus $18.56 tax you claim the work was done properly it was not it was a HACK JOB and that is why I now have more problems than I started with!!!!!!!!!!!