Just Roughin It

This complaint comes as a surprise since it was thought that Just Roughin’ It and Mr [redacted] had resolved this issue in a mutually agreed upon amount back in May To address this complaint, it seems best to discuss the issue of the other hiker that was the source of the problem with this tourJust Roughin’ It Adventure Company takes over people a year to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back on multiple day backpacking toursMost of Just Roughin’ It’s clientele are between and years old with a significant number over Also, most clientele are first time backpackers such as the 69-year-old gentleman Mr [redacted] speaks ofJust Roughin’ It does not discriminate based on age or backpacking experience but on physical activity The company has had backpacking participants as old as years old that have carried a 35lb backpack across the canyon but also had a 33-year-old male participant as it’s slowest hiker ever and needed help carrying a pack.Clients are screened for physical activity before booking the trip and the struggling hiker on this tour informed the company he practiced Bikram yoga times a week and worked out with kettle bells times a weekHe also trained on hikes with a weighted pack in the McDowell Mountains in Scottsdale after booking his tour space months prior to the tourAccording to this information, this hiker was capable of completing this Day South Kaibab/Bright Angel Loop trip as company experience has shown that people of his activity level can complete the hike at the usual pace of to mile per hour even when in their 60’s.Unfortunately, Just Roughin’ It relies on clients fully disclosing all information about medical condition and any changes in condition prior to the hike What this 69-year-old hiker did not disclose was that he was sick with a virus for most of the weeks prior to the hike Yes, this hiker struggled and the guide on the tour did not make the right decision by allowing this hiker to continue with the tripThe guide had the option to hike the struggling hiker back to the rim within the first few hours of the tour and then continue onwith Mr [redacted] and his family This did not happen and as a result, the enjoyment of the trip for his family was effected Mr [redacted] is correct, his group members had to carry extra weight, cook, and set up camp without the guide on that first night of the tour because of the struggling hikerThis is not acceptable Arrangements were made to have the struggling hiker’s gear carried to the second campsite on the tour and for another guide to carry the gear on the final day of the hike so the tour could proceed with the guide performing his duties as usual Sometimes measures such as these are taken when a tour participant of any age or experience level gets ill, develops blisters or twists an ankle while on a tripThat is an unfortunate aspect of a group backpacking tour that cannot be predicted through screening as even the fittest hiker can become ill while on the trailMost tour groups will slow down in situations such as theseAlthough the time spent on the trail on this South Kaibab/Bright Angel tour was longer than for the three days of the hike, it was reported to us by the guide that Mr [redacted] and family did not miss on seeing the sites normally seen on this tour and the group hiked the entire route [redacted] from Just Roughin’ It reached out to Mr [redacted] after the group exited the Grand Canyon because of the issues communicated to us by the guide while the tour was still in the canyonThe company made the decisions to first pay for lunch, which is not a usual part of the trip, and then discuss a refund with Mr [redacted] after he returned homeThe [redacted] group was still traveling after the tour and so reaching out to him was difficultAn email was sent to Mr [redacted] on May 19th asking him to contact Just Roughin’ It when he returned homeMr [redacted] did not contact Just Roughin’ It contact via phone or email until May 22nd when he contacted the office and spoke with [redacted] about the tourPer [redacted] , the conversation was pleasant and Mr [redacted] verbally agreed to a refund offer of 25%, which is $Additionally, the offer included making his next tour with JustRoughin’ It a private tour which is the equivalent of a $to $1,savings since making a Grand Canyon tour private involves purchasing all spaces on a tour due to the heavy demand the company has for Grand Canyon trips Mr [redacted] did not dispute this offer and he even sent a very friendly email to [redacted] on May 22nd after their conversation with pictures of his office and wishing [redacted] a great dayThe check was sent to Mr*** and which was cashed on June 2ndAttached please find a copy of this checkWe did not receive any further communication from Mr [redacted] and the company felt this matter was resolved If he had reached out to Just Roughin’ It, the company would have responded to himIt is the policy of Just Roughin’ It to respond to customer complaintsThe company has reached out to Mr [redacted] after receiving this Revdex.com complaint in an attempt to resolve this issue but has not received a response from him at this time

Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.Their comments about not discriminating on " age or backpacking experience" was never a point I made, nor factored in to my complaint about Just Roughin It's their failure to do their job in evaluating their clients.  I was told by [redacted] that they use that orientation the day before the hike, as a final review of the readiness of their clients.  Clearly they didn't do their job. The 69 year old, contrary to what Just Rough It claims, did actually asked to be put on another trip so he had a chance to feel better.  He told me this himself.  He also stated as much to the guy that was at the orientation meeting the day before.  As stated by 'Just roughin It'  they sent an employee to carry the backpack back for the 69 year old.  They were only concerned about taking care of the 69 year old and not the others that had paid for the trip.  Had Just roughin it sent down another guide to be with the rest of the group, I would have never brought this issue up. 'Just Roughin It' states that we did not miss the site seeing sites normally scene on the trip. Our trip was shorten by several miles , which meant we didn't camp where we where supposed to, so we obviously missed out on many views and experiences.    In regards to the check they sent.  As I previously stated the owners were well aware of how poorly the trip was going, as they were in regular contact with the guide.  Since they were well informed of the situation, their response was to pay for a $10 lunch for us. As I stated previously [redacted], one of the owners didn't like me challenging her on the offer and I stated that the experience they had put us through required a refund.  [redacted] didn't like that response from me.  She stated that she would get back with me later that day.  She did not get back with me until several days later.  She had my cell phone number, so there was no issue contacting me, she simply didn't.   As to disputing the check.  [redacted] made it fairly clear that was all they were going to do.  Basically it was a take it or leave it.    As to Just Roughin It's claim that 'if I would have reached out they would have responded.  They did respond, with a take it our leave it position, they had no intention of resolving the issue fairly. That is one of the reasons I filed this complaint with the Revdex.com.     The claim that I have not responded to their attempt to resolve this is untrue.  I sent a Lengthy email to [redacted] in response to his email to me with questions.  Below is the email of me responding to [redacted] request for additional information and his email as well.  Its apparent by their lack of honesty on communicating with me, and no offer of a refund to properly compensate me, shows that they have no desire to resolve this complaint fairly.                                    �...⇄  From: [redacted] [mailto:[redacted]] Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:00 PMTo: [redacted]Subject: Revdex.com Complaint Follow Up Hello [redacted],  My name is [redacted] and I am an owner of Just Roughin'It Adventure Company. We've received your complaint to the Better BusinessBureau and I want to address this situation.  We were of the impression that you were satisfied with therefund and that it was a mutually agreed upon settlement, especially since therefund check was cashed in early June and we haven't received anycommunications from you since then. If we had seen any communications or gottenphone calls from you stating our offer was not adequate we would have respondedto those in a timely manner. It is not our policy to ignore situations likethese. If this is incorrect and you did reach out to us between June to now,please forward any emails to me as I would like to see them and investigate whythis was not followed up on. Please also forward any communication where fullrefund was requested as well. From speaking with [redacted] after the May 15th trip, it is veryclear that he should have handled the [redacted] situation differently andas a result of his error, your family's enjoyment of the trip was effected.Just Roughin' It does not dispute this and that is why we reached out to youright after the tour to work out a way to settle this matter in good faith. Ithas always been our intention to do so but we are puzzled because from ourpoint of view it appeared we had worked out a solution we both could agree uponbut now you are stating that is not the case.  Any information you can share with me is greatlyappreciated. Best regards,  [redacted]Just Roughin' It Adventure Company[redacted]                               �...⇄ me start out by saying that I had very high hopes for thisonce in a lifetime event for me and my kids .  I took painstaking actionsto ensure on my part that I and my crew with me were properly prepared for the3 day hiking event.  Those actions including spending hours researchingthe Grand Canyon and the hiking trails that are available to the public with nopermit as well as those that require a permit to gain access to the GrandCanyon. In additional doing the recommended physical workouts that [redacted] mentioned on the phone. After an excess of a dozen hours of research I came to thisconclusion, that the 3 day South Kaibab to Bright Angel Loop would be theproper trip for our group.  I contacted several guided hiking companies toprovide the skilled guide for our trip. Based on feedback on [redacted] aswell as other sites, I chose to hire [redacted].  As itturned out they were unable to get the permits for the hike.  Thatunfortunate situation brought me to hire your company ‘Just Roughin It’, as youhad permits available. I sent several emails and talked on the phone extensively with[redacted].  Those conversations revolved around what services ‘JustRoughin it’ supplied and what I should expect from a hiking event with a JustRoughin its guide, along with what kind of physical shape my group should be inbefore attempting this hike.  After checking ‘Just roughin it’ reviews on[redacted] and seeing that they had virtually no negative reviews, I chose tobook your company for this once in a lifetime event.  I say once in alifetime as I’m 53 years old and not an avid hiker, and had no desire to hikethe Grand Canyon again.  This being my first time and very likely my lasttime to the Grand Canyon.  This information was shared with [redacted].  After booking the trip, I received emails and later called ‘JustRoughin It’ to discuss what happens if I didn’t get another person to fill thelast spot on the group trip.  I was told that if I didn’t buy the lastspot, that ‘Just Roughin It’ would book that spot for someone else to comealong.  This concerned me, so I asked many more questions of [redacted]. She assured me that they would only book this spot to someone that could do thehike. She told me that they will evaluate the potential hikers on a trip to seeif they are in proper shape to do the hike, and if not they would not allow thepotential hike to attempt the hike as they did not want to ruin the trip forthose that came along if someone wasn’t able to do the hike. [redacted]’sassurances made me feel better about not being able to fill the last spot withsomeone.  I did not have the money to buy out the spot. The day before the trip all hikers were required to attend anorientation at your store front location in Scottsdale Arizona. This is where[redacted] said that they would make a determination about the fitness of someoneas to whether they would be allowed on the hike. Along with going over theequipment that ‘Just Roughin It’ was going to provide, as well as answer anyquestions that we may have.  We arrived about 10 minutes before [redacted] the69 year old that you guys booked for the empty spot on our hiking trip. The guy that was doing the orientation didn’t seem to know verymuch, I asked some equipment questions and he told me basically that they hadit coverage and your guide could fill you in more.  When I asked him howmany hours to where we are starting the hike from, he stated 5-6hrs.  Thatwas clearly wrong as I had checked on it previously and found it was between3-4hrs.  I was asking to get a more accurate number.  At this point Istopped asking questions.   When [redacted] came in, he looked around tosee the group that he was going to hike with.  He immediately shared withme that he was not comfortable about going on this hike, as he stated that hedidn’t feel up to it.  He said he had a cold all week and didn’t get toworkout all week.  Looking at him, he was hunched over a bit and movedslowly. He was a small guy maybe 5’5” and thin.  He health wise didn’tlook very good at all and when he shared with me that he had never hikedbefore, I became very concerned.   I voiced my concern with the guythat was doing the orientation.  He nodded as he understood my concern, hesaid he would call the owners to let them know of [redacted]s very apparentcondition, that would make him clearly not capable of going on thehike.   We spent another 30 minutes at the store talking with eachother.  The more I talked with [redacted] the more is became very obvious thathe should not be on this hike.  He told me that the owners were tellinghim all week that he could still do it, as he had voiced his concerns with theowners.   I took and additional step and called out guide to tell himall that I witnessed. [redacted] the scheduled guide told me he would call theowners and discuss the situation.    I Felt I had done my joband I was hoping the ‘Just Roughin It’ would do their job and cancel orreschedule [redacted]s hike for when he was in better shape and feeling Better. That unfortunately did not happen. The morning of the hike my group me [redacted] the guide and [redacted].We got to the trail head to begin the hike.  I took [redacted] aside and askedhim ‘are we really going to have [redacted] do this hike’ He looked worse thismorning then he did yesterday.  [redacted] informed me that he was still goingto come with us and that we were going to have to carry a lot of his gear as hewould not be able to carry the weight.  This was not what I was told by[redacted] what was supposed to happen.  I was told that be prepared to carrya backpack that could weigh up to 40 pounds.  All in our group wereprepared as ‘Just Roughin It’ required.  [redacted] was already unpreparedbefore we ever started the hike.  Before we were into the hike an hour it was very obvious that[redacted] was not going to make the hike.  He was wobbly, near trippingmultiple times as the backpack was too much for him.  At that point Ispecifically asked [redacted] about turning [redacted] around and sending himback.  [redacted] told me that if we stopped now and turned [redacted] back, theentire trip for everyone would be cancelled.  [redacted] had no intension ofturning [redacted] back. Within the next hour or so [redacted] fell three times. Wewere all very concerned about [redacted]s safety. At this point [redacted] took [redacted]spack and sent us ahead. The pace we were traveling at was painfully slow. We basically hiked the rest of the 3 days without a guide as [redacted] stayed with[redacted]. The hike down South Kaibab should have taken 6hrs at the mostfor us.  It took 9hrs due to stopping to wait for [redacted] and [redacted]. The rest of us arrived at Phantom Ranch at 8pm.  It was dark, we had tofind our reserved camp site ourselves, we had to set up camp and take care ofdinner ourselves.  All of this was supposed to be done by [redacted], but hewas still 2hrs away with [redacted].  Phantom Ranch as closed when we arrivedso we missed out on all of the activities that we were supposed be involvedwith.  After we set up our camp two of my boys hiked backup South Kaibab1hr and retrieved a backpack to help out [redacted].  [redacted] was veryappreciative of this. We all realized at this point that the trip no longer wasgoing to be an enjoyable guided trip, it became a trip of how to get [redacted]from the bottom of the Grand Canyon back to the top safely.   Our hiking plan was shortened to accommodate [redacted]s inabilityto hike the expected distance.   We stopped at Indian Gardens which cutout almost 3 miles of hiking and experiences. As it so happened we raninto the [redacted] group.  They were having a great time, wesat with them for dinner and they shared great stories of their hikingadventure with their guide, plus our guide had equipment issues and wasborrowing a propane cooking device as his didn’t work, along with some foodsupplies.  That showed me what kind of hiking event we should have beenexperiencing. [redacted] told me that the owners were well aware of all the issueswe were forced to endure as he was carrying a communication device that allowedhim to ‘text’ the owners with updates.Once we got to the top and waited for [redacted] and [redacted] toappear.  We left quickly.  [redacted] talked to me before I left to onceagain that me for be so good about the situation we all had to endure.  Hetold me that the owners were well aware that I was very unhappy about thesituation.   Just Roughin It sent down an employee to retrieve [redacted]sbackpack at Indian Gardens.  Since it was well known by the owners thatthis was a disaster as a hiking trip, they should have sent down an additionalhiker after the first day so we could have separated from [redacted] and enjoyed thelast two days.  There were several opportunities for ‘Just Roughin It’ toperform that job that they claimed they would do, and that I was assured theywould do.  They failed on just about all counts.  The fact that[redacted] wasn’t injured during the 3 day trip was a miracle. [redacted] contacted me shortly after leaving the Grand Canyon. Shewas going to offer my group a free lunch.  I told her that based on all wewent through that was really unacceptable.  She didn’t understand why Iwas not happy with her offer.  I briefly explained all that we wentthrough, after a couple of minutes she said she would discuss this situationwith you and get back to me.  A couple of days later she came back with anoffer of refunding  25% and 10% of future trip.  Based on the toneand my experience with your company I didn’t want to challenge the offer as Iwas sure she would have decided to do nothing. Phone calls were made after I got home to discuss the situationfurther,  I left messages with no one calling me back.   I heldoff writing a critical review of ‘just roughin It’ on [redacted]  untilit was apparent that I wasn’t going to get a positive outcome.  But to mydismay ‘Just Roughin It’ had my review removed.  I constituently found outthat [redacted] does not allow multi-day trip reviews, as stated by theirpolicy.  So [redacted], what you guys obviously do is not challenge positivereviews, so they show up on [redacted] and challenging negative reviews anduse [redacted] rules as you please, since there are is about 80% of yourpositive reviews are based on multi-day trips. So in short, I was misled by your selective challenging ofnegative reviews on tripadvisor.  Had all the reviews that were negativewere posted on [redacted] I would not have used your services.  There isone toke negative review, that interesting enough had people not happy that youguys let attends that were not fit for the trip go on the hike and wreck theirtrip. So what I believe is a fare resolution of this unfortunatesituation is  to charge me for the cost of the permits to hike in theGrand Canyon, and subtract it from the $2550 that it cost me and send a checkfor what is left . [redacted]  
Regards,
[redacted]

This complaint comes as a surprise since it was thought that Just Roughin’ It and Mr. [redacted] had resolved this issue in a mutually agreed upon amount back in May.  To address this complaint, it seems best to discuss the issue of the other hiker that was the source of the problem...

with this tour. Just Roughin’ It Adventure Company takes over 500 people a year to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back on multiple day backpacking tours. Most of Just Roughin’ It’s clientele are between 40 and 60 years old with a significant number over 60.  Also, most clientele are first time backpackers such as the 69-year-old gentleman Mr. [redacted] speaks of. Just Roughin’ It does not discriminate based on age or backpacking experience but on physical activity.  The company has had backpacking participants as old as 82 years old that have carried a 35lb backpack across the canyon but also had a 33-year-old male participant as it’s slowest hiker ever and needed help carrying a pack.Clients are screened for physical activity before booking the trip and the struggling hiker on this tour informed the company he practiced Bikram yoga 5 times a week and worked out with kettle bells 3 times a week. He also trained on hikes with a weighted pack in the McDowell Mountains in Scottsdale after booking his tour space 4 months prior to the tour. According to this information, this hiker was capable of completing this 3 Day South Kaibab/Bright Angel Loop trip as company experience has shown that people of his activity level can complete the hike at the usual pace of 1 to 1.5 mile per hour even when in their 60’s.Unfortunately, Just Roughin’ It relies on clients fully disclosing all information about medical condition and any changes in condition prior to the hike.  What this 69-year-old hiker did not disclose was that he was sick with a virus for most of the 2 weeks prior to the hike.  Yes, this hiker struggled and the guide on the tour did not make the right decision by allowing this hiker to continue with the trip. The guide had the option to hike the struggling hiker back to the rim within the first few hours of the tour and then continue onwith Mr. [redacted] and his family.  This did not happen and as a result, the enjoyment of the trip for his family was effected.  Mr. [redacted] is correct, his group members had to carry extra weight, cook, and set up camp without the guide on that first night of the tour because of the struggling hiker. This is not acceptable.  Arrangements were made to have the struggling hiker’s gear carried to the second campsite on the tour and for another guide to carry the gear on the final day of the hike so the tour could proceed with the guide performing his duties as usual.   Sometimes measures such as these are taken when a tour participant of any age or experience level gets ill, develops blisters or twists an ankle while on a trip. That is an unfortunate aspect of a group backpacking tour that cannot be predicted through screening as even the fittest hiker can become ill while on the trail. Most tour groups will slow down in situations such as these. Although the time spent on the trail on this South Kaibab/Bright Angel tour was longer than normal for the three days of the hike, it was reported to us by the guide that Mr. [redacted] and family did not miss on seeing the sites normally seen on this tour and the group hiked the entire route. [redacted] from Just Roughin’ It reached out to Mr. [redacted] after the group exited the Grand Canyon because of the issues communicated to us by the guide while the tour was still in the canyon. The company made the decisions to first pay for lunch, which is not a usual part of the trip, and then discuss a refund with Mr. [redacted] after he returned home. The [redacted] group was still traveling after the tour and so reaching out to him was difficult. An email was sent to Mr. [redacted] on May 19th asking him to contact Just Roughin’ It when he returned home. Mr. [redacted] did not contact Just Roughin’ It contact via phone or email until May 22nd when he contacted the office and spoke with [redacted] about the tour. Per [redacted], the conversation was pleasant and Mr. [redacted] verbally agreed to a refund offer of 25%, which is $850. Additionally, the offer included making his next tour with JustRoughin’ It a private tour which is the equivalent of a $850 to $1,700 savings since making a Grand Canyon tour private involves purchasing all spaces on a tour due to the heavy demand the company has for Grand Canyon trips.  Mr. [redacted] did not dispute this offer and he even sent a very friendly email to [redacted] on May 22nd after their conversation with pictures of his office and wishing [redacted] a great day. The check was sent to Mr. [redacted] and which was cashed on June 2nd. Attached please find a copy of this check. We did not receive any further communication from Mr. [redacted] and the company felt this matter was resolved.  If he had reached out to Just Roughin’ It, the company would have responded to him. It is the policy of Just Roughin’ It to respond to customer complaints. The company has reached out to Mr. [redacted] after receiving this Revdex.com complaint in an attempt to resolve this issue but has not received a response from him at this time.

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.Their comments about not discriminating on " age or backpacking experience" was never a point I made, nor factored in to my complaint about Just Roughin It's their failure to do their job in evaluating their clients.  I was told by [redacted] that they use that orientation the day before the hike, as a final review of the readiness of their clients.  Clearly they didn't do their job. The 69 year old, contrary to what Just Rough It claims, did actually asked to be put on another trip so he had a chance to feel better.  He told me this himself.  He also stated as much to the guy that was at the orientation meeting the day before.  As stated by 'Just roughin It'  they sent an employee to carry the backpack back for the 69 year old.  They were only concerned about taking care of the 69 year old and not the others that had paid for the trip.  Had Just roughin it sent down another guide to be with the rest of the group, I would have never brought this issue up. 'Just Roughin It' states that we did not miss the site seeing sites normally scene on the trip. Our trip was shorten by several miles , which meant we didn't camp where we where supposed to, so we obviously missed out on many views and experiences.    In regards to the check they sent.  As I previously stated the owners were well aware of how poorly the trip was going, as they were in regular contact with the guide.  Since they were well informed of the situation, their response was to pay for a $10 lunch for us. As I stated previously [redacted], one of the owners didn't like me challenging her on the offer and I stated that the experience they had put us through required a refund.  [redacted] didn't like that response from me.  She stated that she would get back with me later that day.  She did not get back with me until several days later.  She had my cell phone number, so there was no issue contacting me, she simply didn't.   As to disputing the check.  [redacted] made it fairly clear that was all they were going to do.  Basically it was a take it or leave it.    As to Just Roughin It's claim that 'if I would have reached out they would have responded.  They did respond, with a take it our leave it position, they had no intention of resolving the issue fairly. That is one of the reasons I filed this complaint with the Revdex.com.     The claim that I have not responded to their attempt to resolve this is untrue.  I sent a Lengthy email to [redacted] in response to his email to me with questions.  Below is the email of me responding to [redacted] request for additional information and his email as well.  Its apparent by their lack of honesty on communicating with me, and no offer of a refund to properly compensate me, shows that they have no desire to resolve this complaint fairly.                                    �...⇄  From: [redacted] [mailto:[redacted]] Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:00 PMTo: [redacted]Subject: Revdex.com Complaint Follow Up Hello [redacted],  My name is [redacted] and I am an owner of Just Roughin'It Adventure Company. We've received your complaint to the Better BusinessBureau and I want to address this situation.  We were of the impression that you were satisfied with therefund and that it was a mutually agreed upon settlement, especially since therefund check was cashed in early June and we haven't received anycommunications from you since then. If we had seen any communications or gottenphone calls from you stating our offer was not adequate we would have respondedto those in a timely manner. It is not our policy to ignore situations likethese. If this is incorrect and you did reach out to us between June to now,please forward any emails to me as I would like to see them and investigate whythis was not followed up on. Please also forward any communication where fullrefund was requested as well. From speaking with [redacted] after the May 15th trip, it is veryclear that he should have handled the [redacted] situation differently andas a result of his error, your family's enjoyment of the trip was effected.Just Roughin' It does not dispute this and that is why we reached out to youright after the tour to work out a way to settle this matter in good faith. Ithas always been our intention to do so but we are puzzled because from ourpoint of view it appeared we had worked out a solution we both could agree uponbut now you are stating that is not the case.  Any information you can share with me is greatlyappreciated. Best regards,  [redacted]Just Roughin' It Adventure Company[redacted]                               �...⇄ me start out by saying that I had very high hopes for thisonce in a lifetime event for me and my kids .  I took painstaking actionsto ensure on my part that I and my crew with me were properly prepared for the3 day hiking event.  Those actions including spending hours researchingthe Grand Canyon and the hiking trails that are available to the public with nopermit as well as those that require a permit to gain access to the GrandCanyon. In additional doing the recommended physical workouts that [redacted] mentioned on the phone. After an excess of a dozen hours of research I came to thisconclusion, that the 3 day South Kaibab to Bright Angel Loop would be theproper trip for our group.  I contacted several guided hiking companies toprovide the skilled guide for our trip. Based on feedback on [redacted] aswell as other sites, I chose to hire [redacted].  As itturned out they were unable to get the permits for the hike.  Thatunfortunate situation brought me to hire your company ‘Just Roughin It’, as youhad permits available. I sent several emails and talked on the phone extensively with[redacted].  Those conversations revolved around what services ‘JustRoughin it’ supplied and what I should expect from a hiking event with a JustRoughin its guide, along with what kind of physical shape my group should be inbefore attempting this hike.  After checking ‘Just roughin it’ reviews on[redacted] and seeing that they had virtually no negative reviews, I chose tobook your company for this once in a lifetime event.  I say once in alifetime as I’m 53 years old and not an avid hiker, and had no desire to hikethe Grand Canyon again.  This being my first time and very likely my lasttime to the Grand Canyon.  This information was shared with [redacted].  After booking the trip, I received emails and later called ‘JustRoughin It’ to discuss what happens if I didn’t get another person to fill thelast spot on the group trip.  I was told that if I didn’t buy the lastspot, that ‘Just Roughin It’ would book that spot for someone else to comealong.  This concerned me, so I asked many more questions of [redacted]. She assured me that they would only book this spot to someone that could do thehike. She told me that they will evaluate the potential hikers on a trip to seeif they are in proper shape to do the hike, and if not they would not allow thepotential hike to attempt the hike as they did not want to ruin the trip forthose that came along if someone wasn’t able to do the hike. [redacted]’sassurances made me feel better about not being able to fill the last spot withsomeone.  I did not have the money to buy out the spot. The day before the trip all hikers were required to attend anorientation at your store front location in Scottsdale Arizona. This is where[redacted] said that they would make a determination about the fitness of someoneas to whether they would be allowed on the hike. Along with going over theequipment that ‘Just Roughin It’ was going to provide, as well as answer anyquestions that we may have.  We arrived about 10 minutes before [redacted] the69 year old that you guys booked for the empty spot on our hiking trip. The guy that was doing the orientation didn’t seem to know verymuch, I asked some equipment questions and he told me basically that they hadit coverage and your guide could fill you in more.  When I asked him howmany hours to where we are starting the hike from, he stated 5-6hrs.  Thatwas clearly wrong as I had checked on it previously and found it was between3-4hrs.  I was asking to get a more accurate number.  At this point Istopped asking questions.   When [redacted] came in, he looked around tosee the group that he was going to hike with.  He immediately shared withme that he was not comfortable about going on this hike, as he stated that hedidn’t feel up to it.  He said he had a cold all week and didn’t get toworkout all week.  Looking at him, he was hunched over a bit and movedslowly. He was a small guy maybe 5’5” and thin.  He health wise didn’tlook very good at all and when he shared with me that he had never hikedbefore, I became very concerned.   I voiced my concern with the guythat was doing the orientation.  He nodded as he understood my concern, hesaid he would call the owners to let them know of [redacted]s very apparentcondition, that would make him clearly not capable of going on thehike.   We spent another 30 minutes at the store talking with eachother.  The more I talked with [redacted] the more is became very obvious thathe should not be on this hike.  He told me that the owners were tellinghim all week that he could still do it, as he had voiced his concerns with theowners.   I took and additional step and called out guide to tell himall that I witnessed. [redacted] the scheduled guide told me he would call theowners and discuss the situation.    I Felt I had done my joband I was hoping the ‘Just Roughin It’ would do their job and cancel orreschedule [redacted]s hike for when he was in better shape and feeling Better. That unfortunately did not happen. The morning of the hike my group me [redacted] the guide and [redacted].We got to the trail head to begin the hike.  I took [redacted] aside and askedhim ‘are we really going to have [redacted] do this hike’ He looked worse thismorning then he did yesterday.  [redacted] informed me that he was still goingto come with us and that we were going to have to carry a lot of his gear as hewould not be able to carry the weight.  This was not what I was told by[redacted] what was supposed to happen.  I was told that be prepared to carrya backpack that could weigh up to 40 pounds.  All in our group wereprepared as ‘Just Roughin It’ required.  [redacted] was already unpreparedbefore we ever started the hike.  Before we were into the hike an hour it was very obvious that[redacted] was not going to make the hike.  He was wobbly, near trippingmultiple times as the backpack was too much for him.  At that point Ispecifically asked [redacted] about turning [redacted] around and sending himback.  [redacted] told me that if we stopped now and turned [redacted] back, theentire trip for everyone would be cancelled.  [redacted] had no intension ofturning [redacted] back. Within the next hour or so [redacted] fell three times. Wewere all very concerned about [redacted]s safety. At this point [redacted] took [redacted]spack and sent us ahead. The pace we were traveling at was painfully slow. We basically hiked the rest of the 3 days without a guide as [redacted] stayed with[redacted]. The hike down South Kaibab should have taken 6hrs at the mostfor us.  It took 9hrs due to stopping to wait for [redacted] and [redacted]. The rest of us arrived at Phantom Ranch at 8pm.  It was dark, we had tofind our reserved camp site ourselves, we had to set up camp and take care ofdinner ourselves.  All of this was supposed to be done by [redacted], but hewas still 2hrs away with [redacted].  Phantom Ranch as closed when we arrivedso we missed out on all of the activities that we were supposed be involvedwith.  After we set up our camp two of my boys hiked backup South Kaibab1hr and retrieved a backpack to help out [redacted].  [redacted] was veryappreciative of this. We all realized at this point that the trip no longer wasgoing to be an enjoyable guided trip, it became a trip of how to get [redacted]from the bottom of the Grand Canyon back to the top safely.   Our hiking plan was shortened to accommodate [redacted]s inabilityto hike the expected distance.   We stopped at Indian Gardens which cutout almost 3 miles of hiking and experiences. As it so happened we raninto the [redacted] group.  They were having a great time, wesat with them for dinner and they shared great stories of their hikingadventure with their guide, plus our guide had equipment issues and wasborrowing a propane cooking device as his didn’t work, along with some foodsupplies.  That showed me what kind of hiking event we should have beenexperiencing. [redacted] told me that the owners were well aware of all the issueswe were forced to endure as he was carrying a communication device that allowedhim to ‘text’ the owners with updates.Once we got to the top and waited for [redacted] and [redacted] toappear.  We left quickly.  [redacted] talked to me before I left to onceagain that me for be so good about the situation we all had to endure.  Hetold me that the owners were well aware that I was very unhappy about thesituation.   Just Roughin It sent down an employee to retrieve [redacted]sbackpack at Indian Gardens.  Since it was well known by the owners thatthis was a disaster as a hiking trip, they should have sent down an additionalhiker after the first day so we could have separated from [redacted] and enjoyed thelast two days.  There were several opportunities for ‘Just Roughin It’ toperform that job that they claimed they would do, and that I was assured theywould do.  They failed on just about all counts.  The fact that[redacted] wasn’t injured during the 3 day trip was a miracle. [redacted] contacted me shortly after leaving the Grand Canyon. Shewas going to offer my group a free lunch.  I told her that based on all wewent through that was really unacceptable.  She didn’t understand why Iwas not happy with her offer.  I briefly explained all that we wentthrough, after a couple of minutes she said she would discuss this situationwith you and get back to me.  A couple of days later she came back with anoffer of refunding  25% and 10% of future trip.  Based on the toneand my experience with your company I didn’t want to challenge the offer as Iwas sure she would have decided to do nothing. Phone calls were made after I got home to discuss the situationfurther,  I left messages with no one calling me back.   I heldoff writing a critical review of ‘just roughin It’ on [redacted]  untilit was apparent that I wasn’t going to get a positive outcome.  But to mydismay ‘Just Roughin It’ had my review removed.  I constituently found outthat [redacted] does not allow multi-day trip reviews, as stated by theirpolicy.  So [redacted], what you guys obviously do is not challenge positivereviews, so they show up on [redacted] and challenging negative reviews anduse [redacted] rules as you please, since there are is about 80% of yourpositive reviews are based on multi-day trips. So in short, I was misled by your selective challenging ofnegative reviews on tripadvisor.  Had all the reviews that were negativewere posted on [redacted] I would not have used your services.  There isone toke negative review, that interesting enough had people not happy that youguys let attends that were not fit for the trip go on the hike and wreck theirtrip. So what I believe is a fare resolution of this unfortunatesituation is  to charge me for the cost of the permits to hike in theGrand Canyon, and subtract it from the $2550 that it cost me and send a checkfor what is left . [redacted]  

Regards,

This complaint comes as a surprise since it was thought that Just Roughin’ It and Mr. [redacted] had resolved this issue in a mutually agreed upon amount back in May.  To address this complaint, it seems best to discuss the issue of the other hiker that was the source of the...

problem with this tour. Just Roughin’ It Adventure Company takes over 500 people a year to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back on multiple day backpacking tours. Most of Just Roughin’ It’s clientele are between 40 and 60 years old with a significant number over 60.  Also, most clientele are first time backpackers such as the 69-year-old gentleman Mr. [redacted] speaks of. Just Roughin’ It does not discriminate based on age or backpacking experience but on physical activity.  The company has had backpacking participants as old as 82 years old that have carried a 35lb backpack across the canyon but also had a 33-year-old male participant as it’s slowest hiker ever and needed help carrying a pack.Clients are screened for physical activity before booking the trip and the struggling hiker on this tour informed the company he practiced Bikram yoga 5 times a week and worked out with kettle bells 3 times a week. He also trained on hikes with a weighted pack in the McDowell Mountains in Scottsdale after booking his tour space 4 months prior to the tour. According to this information, this hiker was capable of completing this 3 Day South Kaibab/Bright Angel Loop trip as company experience has shown that people of his activity level can complete the hike at the usual pace of 1 to 1.5 mile per hour even when in their 60’s.Unfortunately, Just Roughin’ It relies on clients fully disclosing all information about medical condition and any changes in condition prior to the hike.  What this 69-year-old hiker did not disclose was that he was sick with a virus for most of the 2 weeks prior to the hike.  Yes, this hiker struggled and the guide on the tour did not make the right decision by allowing this hiker to continue with the trip. The guide had the option to hike the struggling hiker back to the rim within the first few hours of the tour and then continue onwith Mr. [redacted] and his family.  This did not happen and as a result, the enjoyment of the trip for his family was effected.  Mr. [redacted] is correct, his group members had to carry extra weight, cook, and set up camp without the guide on that first night of the tour because of the struggling hiker. This is not acceptable.  Arrangements were made to have the struggling hiker’s gear carried to the second campsite on the tour and for another guide to carry the gear on the final day of the hike so the tour could proceed with the guide performing his duties as usual.   Sometimes measures such as these are taken when a tour participant of any age or experience level gets ill, develops blisters or twists an ankle while on a trip. That is an unfortunate aspect of a group backpacking tour that cannot be predicted through screening as even the fittest hiker can become ill while on the trail. Most tour groups will slow down in situations such as these. Although the time spent on the trail on this South Kaibab/Bright Angel tour was longer than normal for the three days of the hike, it was reported to us by the guide that Mr. [redacted] and family did not miss on seeing the sites normally seen on this tour and the group hiked the entire route. [redacted] from Just Roughin’ It reached out to Mr. [redacted] after the group exited the Grand Canyon because of the issues communicated to us by the guide while the tour was still in the canyon. The company made the decisions to first pay for lunch, which is not a usual part of the trip, and then discuss a refund with Mr. [redacted] after he returned home. The [redacted] group was still traveling after the tour and so reaching out to him was difficult. An email was sent to Mr. [redacted] on May 19th asking him to contact Just Roughin’ It when he returned home. Mr. [redacted] did not contact Just Roughin’ It contact via phone or email until May 22nd when he contacted the office and spoke with [redacted] about the tour. Per [redacted], the conversation was pleasant and Mr. [redacted] verbally agreed to a refund offer of 25%, which is $850. Additionally, the offer included making his next tour with JustRoughin’ It a private tour which is the equivalent of a $850 to $1,700 savings since making a Grand Canyon tour private involves purchasing all spaces on a tour due to the heavy demand the company has for Grand Canyon trips.  Mr. [redacted] did not dispute this offer and he even sent a very friendly email to [redacted] on May 22nd after their conversation with pictures of his office and wishing [redacted] a great day. The check was sent to Mr. [redacted] and which was cashed on June 2nd. Attached please find a copy of this check. We did not receive any further communication from Mr. [redacted] and the company felt this matter was resolved.  If he had reached out to Just Roughin’ It, the company would have responded to him. It is the policy of Just Roughin’ It to respond to customer complaints. The company has reached out to Mr. [redacted] after receiving this Revdex.com complaint in an attempt to resolve this issue but has not received a response from him at this time.

Review: I hired this company to provide a tour guide that would hike with our group for 3 days in the grand canyon and provide the setting up, taking down of the camp as well as the cooking and clean up, as advertised on their website. They state that they won't allow people on a hike that are not able to handle the rigors of a 3 day backpack hiking trip. Just Roughin It allowed an individual that was completely unprepared and unqualified to come with us on our hike. The 69 year old gentleman had never hiked before, he told me this. He couldn't carry his backpack. He fell multiple times during the hike which scared us all. And we were forced to hike ahead of the guide and setup camp, cook and orientate ourselves to the area without the guide. We were also forced to carry the extra weight from the old gentleman's backpack. This was a 3 day guided hike that didn't provide the guide for us, as we were not hiking with the guide has he was hours behind with the older gentleman. The guide was in constant contact with the company via a satellite phone of some sort. When we got out of the grand canyon I contacted the owner who offer a free lunch for our troubles. Clearly that was unacceptable for what we were put through. After several days they were willing to provide a 25% refund, which was not acceptable but all that I could get. This was a once in a lifetime hiking trip with me and my 2 boys and a friend. We travelled in from Indiana to Phoenix in good faith that Just Roughin IT would provide what they advertised and paid for. They did not.Desired Settlement: To resolve this I am expect Just roughin it to refund the rest of my money, $2550.

Business

Response:

This complaint comes as a surprise since it was thought that Just Roughin’ It and Mr. [redacted] had resolved this issue in a mutually agreed upon amount back in May. To address this complaint, it seems best to discuss the issue of the other hiker that was the source of the problem with this tour. Just Roughin’ It Adventure Company takes over 500 people a year to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back on multiple day backpacking tours. Most of Just Roughin’ It’s clientele are between 40 and 60 years old with a significant number over 60. Also, most clientele are first time backpackers such as the 69-year-old gentleman Mr. [redacted] speaks of. Just Roughin’ It does not discriminate based on age or backpacking experience but on physical activity. The company has had backpacking participants as old as 82 years old that have carried a 35lb backpack across the canyon but also had a 33-year-old male participant as it’s slowest hiker ever and needed help carrying a pack.Clients are screened for physical activity before booking the trip and the struggling hiker on this tour informed the company he practiced Bikram yoga 5 times a week and worked out with kettle bells 3 times a week. He also trained on hikes with a weighted pack in the McDowell Mountains in Scottsdale after booking his tour space 4 months prior to the tour. According to this information, this hiker was capable of completing this 3 Day South Kaibab/Bright Angel Loop trip as company experience has shown that people of his activity level can complete the hike at the usual pace of 1 to 1.5 mile per hour even when in their 60’s.Unfortunately, Just Roughin’ It relies on clients fully disclosing all information about medical condition and any changes in condition prior to the hike. What this 69-year-old hiker did not disclose was that he was sick with a virus for most of the 2 weeks prior to the hike. Yes, this hiker struggled and the guide on the tour did not make the right decision by allowing this hiker to continue with the trip. The guide had the option to hike the struggling hiker back to the rim within the first few hours of the tour and then continue onwith Mr. [redacted] and his family. This did not happen and as a result, the enjoyment of the trip for his family was effected. Mr. [redacted] is correct, his group members had to carry extra weight, cook, and set up camp without the guide on that first night of the tour because of the struggling hiker. This is not acceptable. Arrangements were made to have the struggling hiker’s gear carried to the second campsite on the tour and for another guide to carry the gear on the final day of the hike so the tour could proceed with the guide performing his duties as usual. Sometimes measures such as these are taken when a tour participant of any age or experience level gets ill, develops blisters or twists an ankle while on a trip. That is an unfortunate aspect of a group backpacking tour that cannot be predicted through screening as even the fittest hiker can become ill while on the trail. Most tour groups will slow down in situations such as these. Although the time spent on the trail on this South Kaibab/Bright Angel tour was longer than normal for the three days of the hike, it was reported to us by the guide that Mr. [redacted] and family did not miss on seeing the sites normally seen on this tour and the group hiked the entire route. [redacted] from Just Roughin’ It reached out to Mr. [redacted] after the group exited the Grand Canyon because of the issues communicated to us by the guide while the tour was still in the canyon. The company made the decisions to first pay for lunch, which is not a usual part of the trip, and then discuss a refund with Mr. [redacted] after he returned home. The [redacted] group was still traveling after the tour and so reaching out to him was difficult. An email was sent to Mr. [redacted] on May 19th asking him to contact Just Roughin’ It when he returned home. Mr. [redacted] did not contact Just Roughin’ It contact via phone or email until May 22nd when he contacted the office and spoke with [redacted] about the tour. Per [redacted], the conversation was pleasant and Mr. [redacted] verbally agreed to a refund offer of 25%, which is $850. Additionally, the offer included making his next tour with JustRoughin’ It a private tour which is the equivalent of a $850 to $1,700 savings since making a Grand Canyon tour private involves purchasing all spaces on a tour due to the heavy demand the company has for Grand Canyon trips. Mr. [redacted] did not dispute this offer and he even sent a very friendly email to [redacted] on May 22nd after their conversation with pictures of his office and wishing [redacted] a great day. The check was sent to Mr. [redacted] and which was cashed on June 2nd. Attached please find a copy of this check. We did not receive any further communication from Mr. [redacted] and the company felt this matter was resolved. If he had reached out to Just Roughin’ It, the company would have responded to him. It is the policy of Just Roughin’ It to respond to customer complaints. The company has reached out to Mr. [redacted] after receiving this Revdex.com complaint in an attempt to resolve this issue but has not received a response from him at this time.

Consumer

Response:

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.

I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.Their comments about not discriminating on " age or backpacking experience" was never a point I made, nor factored in to my complaint about Just Roughin It's their failure to do their job in evaluating their clients. I was told by [redacted] that they use that orientation the day before the hike, as a final review of the readiness of their clients. Clearly they didn't do their job. The 69 year old, contrary to what Just Rough It claims, did actually asked to be put on another trip so he had a chance to feel better. He told me this himself. He also stated as much to the guy that was at the orientation meeting the day before. As stated by 'Just roughin It' they sent an employee to carry the backpack back for the 69 year old. They were only concerned about taking care of the 69 year old and not the others that had paid for the trip. Had Just roughin it sent down another guide to be with the rest of the group, I would have never brought this issue up. 'Just Roughin It' states that we did not miss the site seeing sites normally scene on the trip. Our trip was shorten by several miles , which meant we didn't camp where we where supposed to, so we obviously missed out on many views and experiences. In regards to the check they sent. As I previously stated the owners were well aware of how poorly the trip was going, as they were in regular contact with the guide. Since they were well informed of the situation, their response was to pay for a $10 lunch for us. As I stated previously [redacted], one of the owners didn't like me challenging her on the offer and I stated that the experience they had put us through required a refund. [redacted] didn't like that response from me. She stated that she would get back with me later that day. She did not get back with me until several days later. She had my cell phone number, so there was no issue contacting me, she simply didn't. As to disputing the check. [redacted] made it fairly clear that was all they were going to do. Basically it was a take it or leave it. As to Just Roughin It's claim that 'if I would have reached out they would have responded. They did respond, with a take it our leave it position, they had no intention of resolving the issue fairly. That is one of the reasons I filed this complaint with the Revdex.com. The claim that I have not responded to their attempt to resolve this is untrue. I sent a Lengthy email to [redacted] in response to his email to me with questions. Below is the email of me responding to [redacted] request for additional information and his email as well. Its apparent by their lack of honesty on communicating with me, and no offer of a refund to properly compensate me, shows that they have no desire to resolve this complaint fairly. Regards,[redacted] From: [redacted] [mailto:[redacted]] Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:00 PMTo: [redacted]Subject: Revdex.com Complaint Follow Up Hello [redacted], My name is [redacted] and I am an owner of Just Roughin'It Adventure Company. We've received your complaint to the Better BusinessBureau and I want to address this situation. We were of the impression that you were satisfied with therefund and that it was a mutually agreed upon settlement, especially since therefund check was cashed in early June and we haven't received anycommunications from you since then. If we had seen any communications or gottenphone calls from you stating our offer was not adequate we would have respondedto those in a timely manner. It is not our policy to ignore situations likethese. If this is incorrect and you did reach out to us between June to now,please forward any emails to me as I would like to see them and investigate whythis was not followed up on. Please also forward any communication where fullrefund was requested as well. From speaking with [redacted] after the May 15th trip, it is veryclear that he should have handled the [redacted] situation differently andas a result of his error, your family's enjoyment of the trip was effected.Just Roughin' It does not dispute this and that is why we reached out to youright after the tour to work out a way to settle this matter in good faith. Ithas always been our intention to do so but we are puzzled because from ourpoint of view it appeared we had worked out a solution we both could agree uponbut now you are stating that is not the case. Any information you can share with me is greatlyappreciated. Best regards, [redacted]Just Roughin' It Adventure Company[redacted], Let me start out by saying that I had very high hopes for thisonce in a lifetime event for me and my kids . I took painstaking actionsto ensure on my part that I and my crew with me were properly prepared for the3 day hiking event. Those actions including spending hours researchingthe Grand Canyon and the hiking trails that are available to the public with nopermit as well as those that require a permit to gain access to the GrandCanyon. In additional doing the recommended physical workouts that [redacted] mentioned on the phone. After an excess of a dozen hours of research I came to thisconclusion, that the 3 day South Kaibab to Bright Angel Loop would be theproper trip for our group. I contacted several guided hiking companies toprovide the skilled guide for our trip. Based on feedback on [redacted] aswell as other sites, I chose to hire [redacted]. As itturned out they were unable to get the permits for the hike. Thatunfortunate situation brought me to hire your company ‘Just Roughin It’, as youhad permits available. I sent several emails and talked on the phone extensively with[redacted]. Those conversations revolved around what services ‘JustRoughin it’ supplied and what I should expect from a hiking event with a JustRoughin its guide, along with what kind of physical shape my group should be inbefore attempting this hike. After checking ‘Just roughin it’ reviews on[redacted] and seeing that they had virtually no negative reviews, I chose tobook your company for this once in a lifetime event. I say once in alifetime as I’m 53 years old and not an avid hiker, and had no desire to hikethe Grand Canyon again. This being my first time and very likely my lasttime to the Grand Canyon. This information was shared with [redacted]. After booking the trip, I received emails and later called ‘JustRoughin It’ to discuss what happens if I didn’t get another person to fill thelast spot on the group trip. I was told that if I didn’t buy the lastspot, that ‘Just Roughin It’ would book that spot for someone else to comealong. This concerned me, so I asked many more questions of [redacted]. She assured me that they would only book this spot to someone that could do thehike. She told me that they will evaluate the potential hikers on a trip to seeif they are in proper shape to do the hike, and if not they would not allow thepotential hike to attempt the hike as they did not want to ruin the trip forthose that came along if someone wasn’t able to do the hike. [redacted]’sassurances made me feel better about not being able to fill the last spot withsomeone. I did not have the money to buy out the spot. The day before the trip all hikers were required to attend anorientation at your store front location in Scottsdale Arizona. This is where[redacted] said that they would make a determination about the fitness of someoneas to whether they would be allowed on the hike. Along with going over theequipment that ‘Just Roughin It’ was going to provide, as well as answer anyquestions that we may have. We arrived about 10 minutes before [redacted] the69 year old that you guys booked for the empty spot on our hiking trip. The guy that was doing the orientation didn’t seem to know verymuch, I asked some equipment questions and he told me basically that they hadit coverage and your guide could fill you in more. When I asked him howmany hours to where we are starting the hike from, he stated 5-6hrs. Thatwas clearly wrong as I had checked on it previously and found it was between3-4hrs. I was asking to get a more accurate number. At this point Istopped asking questions. When [redacted] came in, he looked around tosee the group that he was going to hike with. He immediately shared withme that he was not comfortable about going on this hike, as he stated that hedidn’t feel up to it. He said he had a cold all week and didn’t get toworkout all week. Looking at him, he was hunched over a bit and movedslowly. He was a small guy maybe 5’5” and thin. He health wise didn’tlook very good at all and when he shared with me that he had never hikedbefore, I became very concerned. I voiced my concern with the guythat was doing the orientation. He nodded as he understood my concern, hesaid he would call the owners to let them know of [redacted]s very apparentcondition, that would make him clearly not capable of going on thehike. We spent another 30 minutes at the store talking with eachother. The more I talked with [redacted] the more is became very obvious thathe should not be on this hike. He told me that the owners were tellinghim all week that he could still do it, as he had voiced his concerns with theowners. I took and additional step and called out guide to tell himall that I witnessed. [redacted] the scheduled guide told me he would call theowners and discuss the situation. I Felt I had done my joband I was hoping the ‘Just Roughin It’ would do their job and cancel orreschedule [redacted]s hike for when he was in better shape and feeling Better. That unfortunately did not happen. The morning of the hike my group me [redacted] the guide and [redacted].We got to the trail head to begin the hike. I took [redacted] aside and askedhim ‘are we really going to have [redacted] do this hike’ He looked worse thismorning then he did yesterday. [redacted] informed me that he was still goingto come with us and that we were going to have to carry a lot of his gear as hewould not be able to carry the weight. This was not what I was told by[redacted] what was supposed to happen. I was told that be prepared to carrya backpack that could weigh up to 40 pounds. All in our group wereprepared as ‘Just Roughin It’ required. [redacted] was already unpreparedbefore we ever started the hike. Before we were into the hike an hour it was very obvious that[redacted] was not going to make the hike. He was wobbly, near trippingmultiple times as the backpack was too much for him. At that point Ispecifically asked [redacted] about turning [redacted] around and sending himback. [redacted] told me that if we stopped now and turned [redacted] back, theentire trip for everyone would be cancelled. [redacted] had no intension ofturning [redacted] back. Within the next hour or so [redacted] fell three times. Wewere all very concerned about [redacted]s safety. At this point [redacted] took [redacted]spack and sent us ahead. The pace we were traveling at was painfully slow. We basically hiked the rest of the 3 days without a guide as [redacted] stayed with[redacted]. The hike down South Kaibab should have taken 6hrs at the mostfor us. It took 9hrs due to stopping to wait for [redacted] and [redacted]. The rest of us arrived at Phantom Ranch at 8pm. It was dark, we had tofind our reserved camp site ourselves, we had to set up camp and take care ofdinner ourselves. All of this was supposed to be done by [redacted], but hewas still 2hrs away with [redacted]. Phantom Ranch as closed when we arrivedso we missed out on all of the activities that we were supposed be involvedwith. After we set up our camp two of my boys hiked backup South Kaibab1hr and retrieved a backpack to help out [redacted] was veryappreciative of this. We all realized at this point that the trip no longer wasgoing to be an enjoyable guided trip, it became a trip of how to get [redacted]from the bottom of the Grand Canyon back to the top safely. Our hiking plan was shortened to accommodate [redacted]s inabilityto hike the expected distance. We stopped at Indian Gardens which cutout almost 3 miles of hiking and experiences. As it so happened we raninto the [redacted] group. They were having a great time, wesat with them for dinner and they shared great stories of their hikingadventure with their guide, plus our guide had equipment issues and wasborrowing a propane cooking device as his didn’t work, along with some foodsupplies. That showed me what kind of hiking event we should have beenexperiencing. [redacted] told me that the owners were well aware of all the issueswe were forced to endure as he was carrying a communication device that allowedhim to ‘text’ the owners with updates.Once we got to the top and waited for [redacted] and [redacted] toappear. We left quickly. [redacted] talked to me before I left to onceagain that me for be so good about the situation we all had to endure. Hetold me that the owners were well aware that I was very unhappy about thesituation. Just Roughin It sent down an employee to retrieve [redacted]sbackpack at Indian Gardens. Since it was well known by the owners thatthis was a disaster as a hiking trip, they should have sent down an additionalhiker after the first day so we could have separated from [redacted] and enjoyed thelast two days. There were several opportunities for ‘Just Roughin It’ toperform that job that they claimed they would do, and that I was assured theywould do. They failed on just about all counts. The fact that[redacted] wasn’t injured during the 3 day trip was a miracle. [redacted] contacted me shortly after leaving the Grand Canyon. Shewas going to offer my group a free lunch. I told her that based on all wewent through that was really unacceptable. She didn’t understand why Iwas not happy with her offer. I briefly explained all that we wentthrough, after a couple of minutes she said she would discuss this situationwith you and get back to me. A couple of days later she came back with anoffer of refunding 25% and 10% of future trip. Based on the toneand my experience with your company I didn’t want to challenge the offer as Iwas sure she would have decided to do nothing. Phone calls were made after I got home to discuss the situationfurther, I left messages with no one calling me back. I heldoff writing a critical review of ‘just roughin It’ on [redacted] untilit was apparent that I wasn’t going to get a positive outcome. But to mydismay ‘Just Roughin It’ had my review removed. I constituently found outthat [redacted] does not allow multi-day trip reviews, as stated by theirpolicy. So [redacted], what you guys obviously do is not challenge positivereviews, so they show up on [redacted] and challenging negative reviews anduse [redacted] rules as you please, since there are is about 80% of yourpositive reviews are based on multi-day trips. So in short, I was misled by your selective challenging ofnegative reviews on tripadvisor. Had all the reviews that were negativewere posted on [redacted] I would not have used your services. There isone toke negative review, that interesting enough had people not happy that youguys let attends that were not fit for the trip go on the hike and wreck theirtrip. So what I believe is a fare resolution of this unfortunatesituation is to charge me for the cost of the permits to hike in theGrand Canyon, and subtract it from the $2550 that it cost me and send a checkfor what is left . [redacted]

Regards,

Over a month ago we requested the following feedback from the owners of this company. No response was received. This does not seem like the type of company we would like to work for / with. We will not be using them for any future hiking vacations.

TO: JRI Principals,

First of all our Grand Canyon guide, [redacted], was excellent. We cannot say enough good things about him.

We are writing you with regards to an unfortunate and very unlikely incident that occurred during our recent Grand Canyon adventure. We did a four day Hermits Rest to Bright Angel backpacking trip (5/24-27). [redacted] was our guide. As you may recall, when we returned from our hike, the JRI van was missing (had been towed while we were away).

It is our understanding from the preliminary findings, that [redacted] is being held responsible for the ticket & towing charges. We are unified in our view that this is totally unjustified. Our rationale follows:

1.) There is no way that the van could have been running when we left. We sat on the pavement at the rear of the van (i.e. - at tailpipe level) for 20-30 mins loading our packs.

2.) We were with [redacted] when he used the key fob to lock the van (we distinctly remember hearing the horn beep when the car locked.) [redacted] put the fob in his pack, and we walked as a group, to the ranger station. To the best of our knowledge, [redacted] did not handle the fob until we emerged from the canyon 4 days later. He was with us the entire time.

3.) There is no remote start option on the fob, so there is no way it could have been accidentally started (by us). In addition we were told the (keyless) fob system is supposed to automatically shut off the car, when the fob reaches a 20-30 feet from the car.

4.) These (keyless) fobs are not fool proof. In other words, the (Nissan) system is not reliable. After our trip, * continued to Denver for business travel. He rented a Nissan Altima with the same (keyless) fob. He noticed right away that when he shut the car off, closed the door and used the fob to lock the car, the horn beeped. Given our recent Canyon experience, he conducted a simple experiment. He left the car running, closed the doors and walked away. Before he got more than 10 feet away, he walked back to the car with the fob, opened the door, hit the button to shut the car off, closed the door, locked the car with the fob, but noticed that the horn did not beep. He checked the handle to ensure the door was locked (which it was) and returned to the office. Five hours later, he came out to the car to discover the car battery was dead. He could not find anything that was left 'on', but obviously, something drained the battery. The roadside assistance team could not explain what happened and why.

The only plausible explanation for what happened is after we left the rim, during the coming and going of visitors over the busy holiday weekend, a (Nissan) car owner with a key fob, remote started their car and unknowingly also started the locked JRI van. We are sure you have all the details from the park service, but it does not make sense that the van could have run for 2 days and 2 nights (as we were told) after it was driven from Chandler to Flagstaff to the South rim and still have a ¼ tank of gas when [redacted] picked it up from the impound lot.

Throughout our time together, [redacted] treated us with respect, calmly kept us safely out of harm's way, and taught us a ton about the canyon's history and the preservation of this natural wonder. He won us over with his professional disposition and as a model of what we expect JRI looks for in a guide (the people on the front line who shape the customer impression of JRI and faithfully promote your company). To customers like us, the guides are JRI!

It is our expectation that you will do the right thing and not hold [redacted] accountable for the unusual circumstances we encountered, if you want him back as a JRI guide and us as JRI advocates.

We look forward to your response regarding your final decision on this matter. We trust you'll make the right business decision. When we hear back from you, we will each provide you with the requested feedback on our JRI experience, plus we’ll post feedback on the Revdex.com and Trip Advisor sites.

Regards,

*, *, * and *