Kar Mart

We are a small used-car dealer in Michigan City, IndianaAs a used car dealer, when we purchase cars from an auction, a wholesaler or an individual, we rarely receive more than one set of keysWhen we do, they are given to the customer with their title work or in the event the title/lien has to be purified, we contact the customer to pick the key up after the title work is processed at the BMVAll customers are informed of this at the time of purchaseThere was not another set of keys or a fob available for this vehicle.Regarding the above-mentioned complaint, Mr [redacted] purchased the Hummer Hon December 22, At the time he purchased this vehicle, he was informed about any extra key as explained aboveI am attaching a copy of the We Owe" statement signed by Mr [redacted] at the time of purchase outlining any additional parts or repairs promised to himNo additional keys or fobs were promised to him or they would have been listed on this form,If there is anything further we can do for you, please do not hesitate to contact us

Mr [redacted] contacted KarMart via our online advertisement about the Jaguar XJin December, 2017.am enclosing copies of several of the pictures we provided to Mr [redacted] via email that do show the body damage issues stated in his complaintThe issues are marked on the copies.The car, as Mr [redacted] has stated, was advertised as "Certified One Owner - Low Mileage" which is not the same as a "Certified" used carThe car is years old and had only miles when the advertisement on the vehicle was put on the web site.Further, after asking many questions and receiving answers to those questions, Mr [redacted] purchased the vehicle and signed both the Bill of Sale - Sold As Is and Shown statement as well as the Buyers Guide which also indicates there is no warranty and the vehicle is sold as isCopies are included in this response.The car is mechanically sound as Mr [redacted] admits in one of the emails of which I have provided a copyHe was supplied a vehicle history and was at any time more than welcome to actually come and test drive the vehicle before his purchaseAfter many emails and phone calls, Mr [redacted] chose to purchase this vehicle anyway without making the trip to the dealership.Many of Mr [redacted] 's complaints are cosmetic and were evident in the pictures provided to him before the sale and the other complaints are coming over four months after his purchase of the vehicle and are not out of the ordinary for a vehicle years old, We sold him the car for less than we advertised because of a couple of issues we discussed and we are not willing to reimburse him for alleged issues that he is now complaining about a considerable time after the purchase.If there is anything further we can answer for you, please do not hesitate to contact us

I am rejecting this response because:
Firstly, Mr*** fails to address, or even mention:A) The issues of the inoperable sunroof and trunk that would not open, both of which should have been know by him$to replace and repair.B) The leaking air struts/shocks and bad air compressor that keeps them inflated, should have been know by him because of the on board message alert$to replace.C) Any of the aluminum body corrosion which causes the paint to bubble and peel, should have been obvious to him+/- $(I deducted $for the known clear coat issues)D) The car, which I had paid Kar Mart to have delivered to me by a carrier of their choosing, was instead dropped at a third party dealership where it sat for days without my consent or knowledge and unattended.E) When I questioned Mr*** about the costs to repair the extensive body damage ( I had taken the car to three different body shops and the lowest estimate was $2400.00.) he stated "InterestingI can do the body work for $700.00". I would challenge Mr *** or anyone else for that matter, to make the necessary repairs and repaint just the items that he highlights in his response and photographs for $700.00..Secondly,A) Mr*** fails to explain what his definition of 'CERTIFIED' is or intends to imply.B) - when I asked "any other issues" with the car (as demonstrated in one of the copies Mr *** provided) there was absolutely no mention of any of the other problems I have mentioned in this complaint(see attached)C) - Mr***, when stating "the other complaints are coming after over four months after his purchase" fails to disclose that I had raised all of these issues with him on December 28th and 29th, days after I found the car. As previously stated in the original complaint it has taken this long to make and get a full accounting of all needed repairs. (see previously provided invoices)D) - Mr*** refers to these issues as "cosmetic"An inoperable sliding sunroof that has a broken track, a trunk that does not open, both rear air struts/shocks that do not hold air and renders the car undrivablean overworked and weak air compressor trying to keep up with leaking struts/shocks are NOT cosmetic.E) - Mr*** terms these as "alleged" issuesI would refer you to the copies of invoices for repairs that I provided.F) - Mr*** states that "Mr Hardin admits that the car is mechanically sound in one of my emails" The "car runs great" response is not a statement that I made but a response from Mr*** or Mr*** on December 15th 2017, before I had signed the paper work to purchase, to my question of "any other issues" with the car other than the sagging headliner and clear coat problems we had discussed. ThirdlyMr*** and I agree;A) That I asked many questions since I was unable to view the car in personI purchase many, many things online sight unseen, as we all do, that's why I asked a lot of questions. B) We discussed the sagging headliner and the clear coat issues of which there where many more than the he told me about.C) I asked for and received pictures, which at the very least used some 'creative' photographyI have provided my own photos of the car after I found it for comparison(see attached)Fourthly, A) Mr*** attempts to claim that this car was "Certified One Owner - Low Mileage" and "That the car is years old and had only miles" which would imply that the car was in exceptional condition for it's ageHe then also states "none of the issues are out of the ordinary for a year old car" hard to understand how both could be true.B) Unlike Mr***, most online sellers are held to a certain standard and items are sold 'as pictured and as described'When you fail to answer basic questions and are less than forthcoming about the condition or even choose to omit the true condition of your product, that in my opinion, is an attempt to deceive.C) I have every text message exchange between Mr***, Mr*** and myself but am limited on the amount I can uploadIf you require more I would be more the happy to provide.D) I stand by my contention that pertinent and relevant information was withheld by Mr*** and Mr*** during this transaction and that the remedy of a refund in the amount previously stated is most definitely in order.E) Many of Mr***s rebuttal statements are simply and demonstrably not true.F) Mr*** has been in the car business for many years and should have accumulated a great deal of knowledge about acceptable business practices in this State not to mention the value of quality customer serviceA Google search (a matter of public record) would indicate that old habits die hard.Regards,*** ***

Initial Business Response /* (1000, 6, 2017/09/20) */
Thank you for the opportunity to address Mr. [redacted]'s concerns regarding the 1941 Plymouth he purchased from KarMart on July 24, 2017.
This vehicle was purchased by Mr. [redacted] after he found the car for sale on the Internet. After considerable...

discussion, KarMart assisted Mr.[redacted] in financing this vehicle and getting it shipped to him. When this vehicle left our showroom, it was me Chanically sound and there was no evidence what so ever of any oil leaks. Because this vehicle was built as a street rod, there is a kill switch on the car that has to be shut off or it will cause the battery to run down. The delivery driver was notified of this but he may not have remembered to relay this information to Mr. [redacted] her upon delivery which may have given him the wrong impression about the car's mechanical system. As far as being in a shop to be repaired, he has not provided any evidence that he has gotten estimates on repairs for the vehicle.
The crack in the window was there when it was acquired by KarMart some time ago but the car has been kept in the showroom and the windows are usually down. If it was not evident In the multitude of pictures provided to Mr. [redacted], we did not neglect to bring it to his attention to be deceitful but was simply overlooked.
Seatbelts in this 1941 Plym outh were an afterthought as it was rebuilt as a street rod and the focus of the person who built this car was not the seatbelts but the engine, age and style of the car. It is not an everyday, back and forth to work vehicle and it was never intended for that purpose.
We offered to wrap the vehicle only because we were not sure of the delivery driver's plan between KarMart and Mr. [redacted]'s residence, Of concern Was the potential of someone stealing parts off the car while parked overnight along the route. When we spoke with the driver, he indicated he was
driving straight through and his hauling equipment was not conducive to wrapping the vehicle. It was decided at that time that it was more important to get the vehicle delivered than to wait for a different type of hauler and wrap it for no reason, Brand new cars are not wrapped when in transit Mr. [redacted]r has not mention that the vehicle was damaged in any way just that it was not wrapped when he received it. To insist that it be done in this case would have only served to delay the delivery of the vehicle.
It is important to note at this point in time that Mr. [redacted] has in fact spoken with the person who built this car as his neighbor is friends with the builder's son, The builder informed us that he has spoken at length with Mr. [redacted] about the vehicle and that he had expressed to the builder that he was happy with the vehicle. If Mr. [redacted] wanted actual copies of the work completed on the vehicle and it was that important to him, he could have asked the builder when he was speaking with him.
When Mr. [redacted] posted the exact complaint submitted to you on Facebook, he was told that if he was unhappy with his transaction, that he was more than welcome to return the vehicle to KarMart for the amount of money that he paid for it. Perhaps if he had paid more attention and put forth an effort into this purchase, he wouldn't have anything to complain about as he would have been able to actually look for himself for front seat belts, oil leaks and he could have wrapped the vehicle when he took it with him.
As far as his desired resolution, he found this vehicle on the internet. He paid less than the average for this vehicle as you can see from the enclosed listings for vehicles in the same group as Mr. [redacted]'s. The car ran when it left here, did not have any oil leaks and was built as a street rod, which is exactly as it was represented by both our sales people AND the Internet listing Mr [redacted] found. KarMart offered to purchase the vehicle back but it appears that Mr. [redacted] is simply looking for a check.
Initial Consumer Rebuttal /* (3000, 8, 2017/09/27) */
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
To Whom It May Concern,
After reading through the response from Walter F[redacted], General Manager of Karmart, I just have a couple points that I would like to make in rebuttal. I think that Karmart's letter did a fine job of side stepping primary issues and embellishing information in an attempt to elude professional obligations.
To begin, I am not just another consumer looking for a check, on the contrary, I have already paid for most of the issues (the oil leaks, non-working speedometer, and safety belts) with the anticipation that Karmart will not stand up and take responsibility for false or missing information given in regards to these issues.
The following are points that must be made in response to the rather lengthy cloud of smoke that Karmart has submitted in response to my claim:
The kill switch on the car was never an issue and it was irrelevant for Karmart to bring to attention. The driver explained it. Being a car person, I understood it, and it was never discussed again. To bring this up is only a misdirection on the part of Walter.
The oil leaks as well as a dry rotted and leaking gas line can be verified by a reputable mechanic in my area in writing. A tear in the valve cover gasket prevented oil from staying in the engine and instead spraying out when there was any pressure on the engine. This type of tear is not something that just happens as Karmart insinuates, rather it must have been present when in Karmart's possession.
This vehicle is previous to the seat belt requirements being enforced by U.S. law, however, the problem lies with Karmart in disclosing to my wife verbally that the vehicle had the safety belts installed. This turned out to be a half-truth as the safety belts were only located in the back seats and not the front. This is clearly something that could have been avoided had Karmart communicated fully, which they neglected to do. Street rod or not, the main point is not with the presence of safety belts, but the misleading communication from Karmart.
The vehicle was agreed upon by both parties (screenshots of conversation can uphold this claim) to be wrapped to protect the vehicle in transit against any possible dangers. This agreement was not contingent upon weather, travel time, nor any other variables that Karmart would like to use as an excuse. It was a plain statement of fact from Walter in writing, that the car would be wrapped. Again, Karmart (or Walter) clearly used misleading information . If Karmart stayed in communication with me on this supposed situation with the truck driver and the inability to wrap the vehicle, I could have had some piece of mind. However, I was not told about this until Karmart conveniently used it in this claim to cover their actions. Instead, the vehicle arrived at my location with no protection found on the car as promised. Thankfully there was no damage, and again, the main point is not with the presence of the wrap, but the misleading communication from Karmart.
The builder and I have actually never spoken a word. Instead, my neighbor has text messaged the builder's son on occasion in hopes of getting some information about the car sitting in my garage. The same vehicle that Karmart promised they had a stack of receipts chronicling the extensive work done to the vehicle (supposedly over $30,000, but no proof in receipts). Where are those receipts? The builder's son indicated via text message that they do not keep records of car's they build and that Karmart was handed all of those documents. Karmart stated after the deal was done that they conveniently cannot find them; so who knows what has actually happened to this vehicle? I have found multiple started, but not finished, projects on the vehicle that lead me to believe there may be hidden pitfalls just waiting to immerge (Example: a brake reservoir in the engine bay that is not actually connected to the brake booster under the car. This would prevent anyone from checking the brake fluid levels, thus making the vehicle unsafe should the levels go low enough for brake failure). Yet again a claim by the dealership not followed through as promised.
Karmart states that they assisted me in financing the vehicle and that is true. However, during the process, the dealership lost all of my signed paperwork and so they had to send the paperwork a second time. They found the first set of paperwork later after they had discovered it had been sent to the wrong bank (text proof of this if needed). How does a reputable business send signed finance papers to the wrong bank?
Finally, the vehicle arrived at my location with a broken passenger side window. This was the biggest breach of professionalism because a reputable dealership does not simply "overlook" a broken window and sell a car. I can provide all of the pictures and videos sent to me from Karmart (51 in all) and conveniently not a one shows a broken window. This is a blatant and unprofessional misrepresentation of the vehicle's condition. This was admitted by Karmart that it was overlooked and it should be rectified by Karmart to make right on their oversight. I have found and priced the replacement window at a price of $122 (I can provide company and price quote if necessary) and I fully expect Karmart to correct their oversight and purchase this piece to complete our business deal. I purchased a vehicle as described by a seemingly trustworthy business and a broken window was not disclosed. Had it been disclosed, there could have been a negotiation in regards to fixing it or accepting the damage and moving forward with the purchase. **Please note that this is the only item in which I am asking for monetary assistance.**
Overall, I do like the car as it sits. My wife's deceased grandfather had one similar to it when he passed and therefore this model vehicle holds a special place. Selling this car back is not an option and is not something that I consider because of the before mentioned reason. It has nothing to do with getting any kind of deal with the car as Karmart would like to make it seem. Besides, there is no paperwork to support the claims that this car is worth more than I paid based on lack of evidence.
Aside from the main issue of Karmart not being honest about the said issues, I have a personal complaint to identify in regards to Karmart, and more specifically General Manager Walter F[redacted]k. Since purchasing the car, I reviewed Karmart on their Facebook page. The General Manger, Walter "Wally" F[redacted] decided to be very unprofessional to both my wife and me. We have been called hicks, ie, and stupid. He told my wife that she needed to get help and called her "woman" in a very derogatory, demeaning manner. He even attacked appearance saying a dentist is needed. All things not becoming from a business advertising professional and courteous service.
The bottom line is that Karmart deals in partial truths and smoke screens when selling vehicles and I am only asking that they rectify their oversight on the broken window. Any respectable business would do this to make sure the consumer is at least somewhat satisfied. After that is rectified, I expect to have no more dealings with Karmart and will advise my friends and family in the area to do the same when looking for a vehicle.

Thank you for your time and consideration,
[redacted]
Despite the Revdex.com's ruling that we have made a good faith effort in this situation and their closing of this case, I am enclosing a check to assist in paying for the cracked window. They will also receive a copy of this correspondence and the check for their records.

We
are a small used-car dealer in Michigan
City, Indiana. As a used car dealer, when
we purchase cars from an auction, a
wholesaler or an individual, we rarely receive more than one set of keys. When
we do, they are given to the customer with their title work or in the event the...

title/lien has to be purified, we contact the
customer to pick the key up after the title work is processed at the BMV. All customers are
informed of this at the time of purchase. There was not another set of keys or a fob available for this vehicle.Regarding the above-mentioned
complaint, Mr. [redacted] purchased the 2005 Hummer
H2 on December 22, 2017. At the time he purchased this vehicle, he
was informed about any extra key as explained above. I am
attaching a copy of the We Owe"
statement signed by Mr. [redacted] at the time of purchase outlining any
additional parts or repairs promised to him. No additional keys or fobs were
promised to him or they would have been listed on
this form,If there is anything
further we can do for you, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Mr. [redacted] contacted KarMart via our online advertisement
about the 2004 Jaguar XJ8 in December, 2017.am enclosing copies of several of the pictures we
provided to Mr. [redacted] via email that do show the body damage issues stated in his complaint. The issues
are marked on the copies.The
car,...

as Mr. [redacted] has stated, was advertised as "Certified One Owner -
Low Mileage" which is not the same as a "Certified"
used car. The car is 14 years old and had only 66674 miles when the
advertisement on the vehicle was put on the web site.Further, after asking many
questions and receiving answers to those questions, Mr. [redacted] purchased the vehicle and signed both the Bill of Sale - Sold As
Is and Shown statement as well as the Buyers Guide which also indicates there is no warranty and the
vehicle is sold as is. Copies are included in this response.The car is mechanically sound as Mr.
[redacted] admits in one of the emails of which I have provided a copy. He was
supplied a vehicle history and was at any time more than welcome to actually
come and test drive the vehicle before his
purchase. After many emails and phone calls, Mr. [redacted] chose to purchase this vehicle anyway without making the trip to the
dealership.Many of Mr. [redacted]'s complaints are
cosmetic and were evident in the pictures provided to him before the sale and the other complaints are coming over four
months after his purchase of the vehicle and are not out of the ordinary for a vehicle 14 years old, We sold him the car for less than we advertised because of a couple of issues
we discussed and we are not willing to reimburse him for alleged issues that he
is now complaining about a considerable time
after the purchase.If there is anything further we can answer for you,
please do not hesitate to contact us.