Ken Greer Plumbing Heating And Air Conditioning

Review: We have hot water baseboard heat; the water heater was leaking water. Ken Greer recommended the [redacted] White 40 gallon Gas Power Vent which we bought from him on 05/20/2013 for our home. My husband watched part of the installation and heard the furnace making loud banging noises and saw the furnace dancing around. Mr. Greer said he was having trouble getting the air out of the system. He complained that our system did not have ball valves which would solve the problem. Mr. Greer continued opening the spigot to try to eliminate the air and at the end of the day told us to "cross our fingers and hope we got enough air out."

The summer and fall came and went. We don’t usually turn on the heat for our upstairs. But the few times we did, my daughter complained that her room was cold. We did not pay too much attention to this, until the cold spell in January when we did turn on the upstairs heat. At that point, I noticed my daughter’s room was indeed quite cold. Her baseboard was cold. The upstairs bathroom seemed not as warm as it should have been.

01/07/2014 My husband notified Mr. Greer of the problem and Mr. Greer came that afternoon, drained the system and tried to bleed the air out by cracking the air bleed screws on the baseboard heaters in those 2 rooms.

01/08/2014 morning: Not even 24 hours after Mr. Greer's service call, I discovered a wet carpet in my daughter’s room, and my husband saw that the bleed screw in the bedroom was leaking water which went through to the first floor ceiling and wall and down to our basement. Mr. Greer came out, drained the system, and replaced the bleeder screw. When I complained about our carpets and ceiling damages, Mr. Greer said, "I can't be held responsible for that. The pipe was dry when I left." He complained again that our system did not have ball valves to make draining the system simple and that the bleed screws were "junk" and "I haven't used those in 30 years! They should all be replaced!" I expressed concern that we didn't want a similar problem to happen, and Mr. Greer said we should replace all the old bleed screws and have ball valves on the system. I asked him why why he didn't put them on as the system would have to be drained yet again, but I got no response except that he was so busy this season, "too busy."

01/12/2014 I woke up to water dripping from the 1st floor ceiling, right below the upstairs bathroom. Again, water was leaking out of that bleeder screw. Mr. Greer came again, drained the system again, replaced the leaking bleeding screw and told us he could not replace any remaining bleeding screws or put on ball valves until later in the week as "It's Sunday." I complained that every time he comes and has to drain the system, our bill keeps rising. He should have already installed the replacement parts.

01/17/14 Mr. Greer drained the system for the 4th time in 10 days, replaced 3 remaining bleeder screws, put on auto air vents and FINALLY put on the ball valves.

The system continued to make banging noises and we could hear water running through the pipes. We noted there was little to no pressure in the lines. The circulator motor for the heat would run constantly, but the pipes were cold because the heat wasn't coming on. We had lost our heat.

01/23/2014 Mr. Greer drained the system (or at least the parts of the system that could now be separated out since the ball valves were now on) and told us the expansion tank was bad as it was holding water and the relief valve was going bad as it was going off before reaching 30 psi. He replaced them. Mr. Greer said this problem was totally unrelated to any work that he did this January. My husband and I questioned why the problem parts weren't replaced back on 5/20/13 as we felt like his failure to eliminate the air in the system caused all the subsequent problems. While the work was still going on, my husband noted that one of the new replacement valves was leaking. Apparently the valve hadn't been closed correctly by his helper. That problem was corrected then.

Mr. Greer has denied any responsibility for any of the problems we've had starting in January. He just kept saying, "I don't have a crystal ball! I don't know when a pipe is going to leak! The pipes were dry when I left. That's all I can say." He said, "I try to save people money, and if I'd have told you you needed to put on ball valves which would cost another $200, you'd have laughed at me!" We objected saying that he never gave us the choice in May (or even on the first 3 repair visits this January) and tried to compare dealing with an auto mechanic's big repair job and tacking on a few minor part replacements to avoid future labor charges, but Mr. Greer did not seem to make the connection.

We have no objection to paying for any parts Mr. Greer installed this January. We object to most if not all of his labor charges as we feel the problems stem from failure to properly install the water heater by not eliminating all the air from the system at the time of installation. Moreover, had he installed the ball valves on 5/20/13, #1, the air could have been eliminated and #2, any subsequent need to drain the system would have taken less time, thereby saving labor charges. Draining the system each time seemed to take about 2 hours and at $70/hour plus the hourly charges for his assistant, the cost of the water heater has gone up by 1 third! Had he installed the ball valves at the time the water heater was installed as he admittedly had trouble getting the air out of the system, we would not have had the 5 service calls this January. My husband and I do not know whether the last service call was or wasn't related to Mr. Greer's prior work; however, the problems we've encountered occurred after he serviced our system, so our trust level is quite low.

Mr. Greer’s service call charges don’t even include the costs to repair our 2 ceilings and wall which are a direct result of his working on our system.Desired Settlement: We would like a significant portion of all the labor charges refunded to us. We also would like the cost to repair our ceilings to be covered.

Business

Response:

March 5, 2014I received a copy of the complaint from the [redacted] @ [redacted]. In response to the allegations from the customer, I would like an opportunity to explain the facts as I see them.On May 20,2013, we installed a 40 gallon water heater at this residence. We were called to same residence for an unrelated problem regarding the heating system on January 7,2014. After the repair was completed, there were no visible leaks detected. After leaks developed later, ball valves were installed and the problem seemed to have been corrected. The replacement of the expansion lank on January 23, 2014 was necessary and totally unrelated to the original problem- It is our business practice to attempt to repair the most obvious and the most cost effective repairs first. I cannot predict future problems, nor be held responsible for them.Information that [redacted] did not mention is the fact that he was not charged for every visit. In addition, his heating system is extremely antiquated. To my knowledge, his heating system has not been serviced, checked or maintained is the years since installation, which we did not do.He also does not mention that the invoice for the water heater installation was paid in installments, received well past the due date. We did not include any late fees or interest to his account, even though it dearly states on the invoice of our right to do so. As it stands, the customer is delinquent once again on this latest invoice.It seems ironic to me that there were no problems reported with the water heater prior to this year. And yet, he is asking for a refund for that installation.At this time, I feel as if I need to file a complaint in court for non-payment of services. Certainly we will abide by the courts decision on this matter and hopefully we can resolve this matter at that time.Sincerely

Consumer

Response:

Review: [redacted]

April 1, 2014Attn: [redacted]:I had this house built in 1994 and have lived here

since. In the past 20 years, Mr. Greer

was the ONLY plumber/heater company to service our hot water baseboard heating

system since that time. Mr. Greer has

probably been out to our residence a dozen times or so in those 20 years. EVERY time we called, he was very good about

coming the same day and fixing whatever problem there was, and for that we were

very grateful. We have been very

blessed that the house was well built and that the heating system has performed

as it should requiring minor repairs here and there. Up until January, we have NEVER had a dead

zone in our home. Our hot water heater was linked to our furnace, so the heater

had to perform double duty (heating water all year as well as heating water for

the furnace.) Mr. Greer suggested

separating the 2 systems to take the load off the water heater. That made sense to us. When the water heater was installed last May,

Mr. Greer had to disconnect the old tank from the furnace. With that disconnection, the system had to be

drained. We hold fast that when the

system was refilled, Mr. Greer did not remove all the air resulting in the dead

zone in our daughter’s upstairs bedroom, and that failure caused at least 4 of

the five service calls all from January 7 through January 23, 2014. And we contend that we should not have had to

pay for the same “service” twice. Moreover, once the system was drained the first time, the bleeder valves

(at a minimum) and the ball valves should have been replaced AT THAT TIME. This would have eliminated the 4 additional

emptying of the entire system which resulted in the excessive labor charges for

which Mr. Greer billed us.To clarify, we do not have any problem with the water

heater. The problem with the hot water

baseboard system came with the requisite separation of the old water heater

from the furnace, making 2 separate systems, and the failure to remove all the

air from the system at that time. The

dead zone was not realized until the upstairs heat had to be turned on during

the super cold temperatures this winter.Mr. Greer made several FALSE statements. 1. Our twenty year old hot water baseboard system is hardly

antiquated. Mr. Greer made repeated

negative comments about it, but that is the system we have. In all these years, he could have declined

working on it. 2. We paid for the water heater in 2 installments with

the approval of Mr. Greer’s office staff. (Mr. Greer’s own response concurs with

that.) We have a family, and to come up

with $1700 all at once presented a financial difficulty for us. By separating the bill over 2 credit card

cycles, we were able to pay Mr. Greer’s bill in the agreed manner and

still keep our finances in order. We

paid half the bill prior to the due date on 6/3/2013 and the remaining half on

7/8/2015. (Receipts included.) We were

grateful to Mr. Greer for the extra time to separate the billing on the large

purchase as well as the avoidance of a monthly finance charge. That is certainly a good business practice

offered by reputable companies.3. Regarding this January’s bill, again, my husband spoke

with the same female staff at Mr. Greer’s office about paying in installments

for the same financial reason (as well as because we were dissatisfied with Mr.

Greer’s bill for his “service.”) That

is why we submitted our complaint to the Revdex.com. We paid $530 towards the $1061.26 prior to the due date. (Receipt included.)Because we had employed his services many times before and

were satisfied with them, we hired Mr. Greer to replace the water heater. We certainly expected him to offer his

professional recommendations to us re: installing ball valves ($15.64/valve) at

that time as a cost saver for the future. It is no different than an auto mechanic offering his knowledge and

expertise based on the vehicle and extent of the repair or a surgeon advising

he removed an appendix in addition to a gall bladder as it was looking suspect

for a problem. Reputable professionals

would certainly look out for their customer’s best interests, and we had no

prior qualms with Mr. Greer’s work (though none of the service calls prior to

January were for major repairs).We contend that Mr. Greer’s plumbing knowledge and experience

should have prompted him to at least RECOMMEND replacing the bleeder valves

($4.74/valve) when the first one leaked, especially since he repeatedly said

they were cheap. And when he replaced

the first “cheap” one, he should have done the same with the second “cheap” one

which he had manipulated on his first visit. That would have saved us a 2nd ceiling’s worth of

damage. I don’t think ANY customer would

object to a $10 to $20 additional charge to replace “cheap” valves if it would

potentially save hundreds of dollars worth of potential future labor charges as

well as dry wall damage. That makes for

a reputable company and a satisfied customer. Unfortunately, Mr. Greer did not operate in the most professional manner

in this case and charged us for hundreds of dollars of labor to solve a

relatively simple problem. The fact that

we had dealt with Mr. Greer a dozen or so times throughout the past 15-20 years

makes us all the more expectant that he offer us his professional

recommendations in a timely manner when the system had been drained and the

part could have been installed. Instead,

Mr. Greer drained our system (and our bank account) 5 SEPARATE TIMES IN 17 DAYS for a problem that should have been

corrected at the time of the water heater /furnace separation or, at the

latest, when the first bleeder valve was replaced. His labor charges seem excessive.It is unfortunate that this problem arose with Mr.

Greer. We debated endlessly over

complaining to the Revdex.com as we did not want to discredit him. We had no objections to his service in the

past, and he was generally good-natured. However, after much deliberation, we decided it was the prudent thing

for us as his customers to report. We

had tried several times to explain to Mr. Greer why we were dissatisfied while

he was at our home, but this was always met with comments about his inability

to predict the future and unwillingness to accept responsibility for his

“service.” We don’t see that as a

professional business response, but as a reluctance to consider how his actions

or inactions impact families. Regardless

of what happens in our situation, we hope that Mr. Greer offers his customers, especially his long

standing ones, his professional recommendations at the time of his services so

they have the opportunity to consider spending a little more now in an attempt

to avoid future more costly repairs.

Regards,